Marines order new batch of M72 LAW

[Balog]

I gotta agree with Balog.  For clearing a structure that is smaller than a football stadium, you want an M4, a shotgun, or preferably an SMG (with lots of grenades).  I wouldn't want to use one for urban combat period unless I had a primary weapon and an M79 tied to my ruck.

Para-Saw's are nice for clearing houses you've taken fire from. Nothing says "Clear!" like a grenade followed by most of a 200 round drum dumped into a room. 

[RevDisk]

Para-Saw's are nice for clearing houses you've taken fire from. Nothing says "Clear!" like a grenade followed by most of a 200 round drum dumped into a room. 

Yep!   I used to take them to the club with me, fit under my jacket perfectly.

A vicious rumor went around that someone removed the bipod and added a M203.  Rumors are like that...

[roo_ster]

M249 SAW was a weapon I initially despised but came to wuv second only to my beloved M4A1/M203*.  Not quite as versatile as the M4A1/M203, but nothing says "suppression" like like a belt-fed for rifle ranged targets.

A M249 with a M203 would be like peas & carrots or chocolate & peanut butter.  Now that I know/suspect one exists(ed), I want one. 

Belt-fed, heavy-bbl, & bbl-changing goodness and HEDP 40mm grenades?  I could be my own little fire team.





* I just had a knack for the M203.  I think I am gifted with decent range-estimation skills, which makes all the difference with the M203.

[seeker_two]

Belt-fed, heavy-bbl, & bbl-changing goodness and HEDP 40mm grenades?  I could be my own little fire team.

It would certainly weigh as much as a fire team.... 

[roo_ster]

It would certainly weigh as much as a fire team.... 

Meh, the mass would suck up the recoil.

[Josh Aston]

Yes, I know that they are not in combat use, but there's one in testing, called the AA-12.

I haven't heard anything about the AA-12 even being in testing.  I think most everyone has gotten past there infatuation with full auto shotguns. 

[MicroBalrog]

I haven't heard anything about the AA-12 even being in testing.  I think most everyone has gotten past there infatuation with full auto shotguns. 

The Marines had a dozen in testing in 2006. Don't know where they went.

[RevDisk]

It would certainly weigh as much as a fire team.... 

Nope.  The Para SAW weighs only a couple pounds more than an M16A2.  And an M203 isn't very heavy.   So just add the weight of 100 or 200 extra 5.56 rounds plus a couple of lbs, and there you go.

[Bogie]

I guess I'm just from the Jeff Cooper "big payload = not having to worry about what it hit" school of thought.
 

[Balog]

I'm pretty sure Jeff Cooper never said anything about big round > shot placement.

And terminal ballistics aside, the mechanics of house clearing are of more importance than the payload, in many cases.

[Josh Aston]

I guess I'm just from the Jeff Cooper "big payload = not having to worry about what it hit" school of thought.
 

Kind of sucks when all you hit is empty wall space. 

[Manedwolf]

I guess I'm just from the Jeff Cooper "big payload = not having to worry about what it hit" school of thought.

Sucks when you make a big cloud of fallen wall debris, and a surviving jihadist, concealed in that cloud, pops you with an AK.

I'd rather hit threat targets, personally.

[Bogie]

So, my vision of seeing Elmer Fudd sticking a blunderbuss in the face of Abduhl and having him crap his whateverheheckitiscalled is just wishful thinking?
 
It's fun anyway.
 
And picturing Abduhl catching a few ounces mid-mass moving at 400 or so fps strikes me as funny too...
 
Oh, and the a knob creek or so ago, I saw a cool little toy - it held nine or so .22LR rounds, and would fit in your choice of 40mm or 37mm launchers...

[Boomhauer]

So, my vision of seeing Elmer Fudd sticking a blunderbuss in the face of Abduhl and having him crap his whateverheheckitiscalled is just wishful thinking?
 
It's fun anyway.
 
And picturing Abduhl catching a few ounces mid-mass moving at 400 or so fps strikes me as funny too...
 
Oh, and the a knob creek or so ago, I saw a cool little toy - it held nine or so .22LR rounds, and would fit in your choice of 40mm or 37mm launchers...

http://www.mr40mm.com/products

Scroll down a little bit.

Fun to play with, I bet, but it's a novelty.

[seeker_two]

Sucks when you make a big cloud of fallen wall debris, and a surviving jihadist, concealed in that cloud, pops you with an AK.

I'd rather hit threat targets, personally.

...esp. if you hit them with HE or WP....then the surviving jihadist has other things to worry about than popping you with an AK....

[Bogie]

The 79/203 rounds don't arm for about 10 yards or so... Supposed to keep the attrition rate of the guy carrying it down, after he accidentally blows one into the ground in front of him...
 
Idea for a round... balls with piano wire stringing 'em together...

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

Idea for a round... balls with piano wire stringing 'em together...

Chain shot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain-shot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolo_shell

[Bogie]

Yeah, I know it's been done before...
 
And for the ultimate entry weapon... .22LR minigun... Not a huge amount of penetration, but in the five seconds after the door gets boofed, you can dump in 500 rounds (or more...).
 

[RevDisk]

I'm pretty sure Jeff Cooper never said anything about big round > shot placement.

Obviously, Jeff Cooper never had artillery support.   

[Perd Hapley]

HE WAS A MARINE!!  MARINES DON'T NEED ARTY!!  RUINS THE MEAT!!

[Uncle Bubba]

* I just had a knack for the M203.  I think I am gifted with decent range-estimation skills, which makes all the difference with the M203.

Me, too. With the M203 I had Kentucky windage on lock - see it, hit it. Only weapon I was better with was the M60.

[Manedwolf]

Yeah, I know it's been done before...
 
And for the ultimate entry weapon... .22LR minigun... Not a huge amount of penetration, but in the five seconds after the door gets boofed, you can dump in 500 rounds (or more...).

With about half of them being misfires and squibs because it's hot and humid out and the thing got oil into the 22 rounds, fouling them...?

22LR is fun for sporting and possibly good for assassination at close range if the rounds are kept in pristine and humidity controlled containment...

...but it sucks as a high reliability round in general, especially in adverse conditions. You can't make 22LR proofed against moisture and oil fouling. They go bad in damp. Quickly.

You want something with a small high-reliability round for something, I would suggest 5.7x28.

And the idea is not to make a spray of little things, but to cause so much immediate CNS and/or circulatory system damage to the bad guy that they are incapable of returning fire or being any sort of threat whatsoever. I would much rather fire a .308 at center of mass than spray little angry bees of .22s at someone and hope something penetrates.

If you really want overkill, hit someone with a deer slug.

[Balog]

For some reason I really like the phrase "angry little bees of .22's."

[Bogie]

Little bitty rounds mean low recoil... And I'm guessing that if Abduhl gets hit with 20-30 of those "angry little bees," that he won't be thinking about payback, while at the same time, if he gets a through-hit from a FMJ, he could still be somewhat viable as a threat.
 
I've shot a 180 before, and it's basically a one-barrel bullet hose... Wrap six rotating .22LR barrels in a sleeve, stick a thousand-round box on the back, and you've got a higher cyclic rate... And the .22LR could be somewhat climate-proofed too...
 
And since it's a mechanical feed/fire/extract system, if it hits a dud, you're still good.
 
Besides, if someone makes it, there's the chance that dealers samples could be available, and then I would have the chance of owning a minigun that I could afford to feed...
 

[taurusowner]

Bogie, room clearing is much faster, much more tiring, and much more uncertain than it appears your think it is.