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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on August 07, 2014, 04:19:29 PM

Title: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 07, 2014, 04:19:29 PM
Gun and gun accessory manufacturers are a PITA. They seem to be so focused on the trees that they miss the entire forest. Take, for example, this email I received today. It's actually from a law firm that represents Glock.

Quote
Name: Julianna Orgel
E-mail: jorgel@renzullilaw.com
Telephone: 914-285-0700

Comment: Re:   Product Descriptions Utilizing GLOCK’s Intellectual Property

Dear Sir or Madam:

   Our office represents GLOCK, Inc. and GLOCK Ges.mbH (collectively referred to as “GLOCK”). GLOCK, Inc. owns all rights, titles, and interests in its valuable trademarks and patents (“GLOCK’s intellectual property”), which boast global recognition. GLOCK has several federally registered trademarks in connection with a variety of goods and services, including registration numbers 1,691,390, 1,381,064 and 2,807,747.  GLOCK’s intellectual property cannot be used without GLOCK’s express written authorization.

Over the years, GLOCK’s intellectual property has achieved widespread recognition, goodwill, and fame.  Its well-known history and popularity continues to result in an extensive demand for GLOCK-related products.  Consequently, GLOCK will take every step necessary to prohibit the unauthorized use of its intellectual property and proprietary rights.

   It has come to our attention that your website uses GLOCK’s intellectual property in a manner that is likely to cause confusion or mistake as to the source, sponsorship, or affiliation of the services and products offered by your company. Upon visiting your website, lensandlasers.com, we noted that your company offers for sale and is selling several aftermarket parts for GLOCK pistols, including “Pearce Glock 20/21 Plus 2 Magazine Extension,” “Meprolight Glock Tru-Dot Night Sight-TD Fixed G23 & G27 Set,” and “Trijicon Glock RMR Pistol Mount.”

By describing your products in this manner, you are suggesting that they are associated with or endorsed by GLOCK - which they are not.  To avoid any consumer confusion, we ask that you modify the descriptions on your website for GLOCK aftermarket parts to read “for Glock” or “fits all Glocks.”  This alerts consumers to the fact that your products are to be used with GLOCK pistols, but are not manufactured by GLOCK. Regarding the above mentioned products, they could instead read “Pearce Magazine Extension Plus 2 for Glock’s 20/21,” or “Trijicon RMR Pistol Mount Fits Glock Pistols.”

Further, if you offer any factory or OEM products for sale, we request that you label them as such in your product descriptions so that they read “Factory GLOCK…” or “GLOCK OEM…”

In light of the above, we ask that you contact us by August 22, 2014 and confirm that you have done the following:

1.   Revise the aftermarket product descriptions for GLOCK pistols on lensandlasers.com to comport with the above suggested format;

2.   Label any factory or OEM GLOCK products as such in your product descriptions; and

3.   Add the following disclaimer in at least 10 point font on your website:

DISCLAIMER: “GLOCK” is a federally registered trademark of GLOCK, Inc. and is one of many trademarks owned by GLOCK, Inc. or GLOCK Ges.mbH.  Neither Lens & Lasers, nor this site are affiliated in any manner with, or otherwise endorsed by, GLOCK, Inc. or GLOCK Ges.mbH.  The use of “GLOCK” on this page is merely to advertise the sale of GLOCK pistols, parts, or components.  For genuine GLOCK, Inc. and GLOCK Ges.mbH products and parts visit www.glock.com.

We work with numerous aftermarket parts companies to help protect GLOCK’s intellectual property and look forward to working with Lens & Lasers as well. We appreciate your anticipated cooperation in this matter.

Very truly yours,

RENZULLI LAW FIRM, LLP

Julianna E. Orgel"

How much time and money is going into this, and what do they expect to achieve?

I just got through jumping through hoops Trijicon set up, and now Glock sends these stupid demands. I expect Trijicon to bug me again in another few weeks.

Mother jumpers.

Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: AJ Dual on August 07, 2014, 04:29:19 PM
Not that it really helps, but it might make you feel a little better...

To a degree it's not "personal" between you/LensAndLasers and Glock's Legal dept. Part of keeping or maintaining a trademark, registration, or claim of "trade dress" is that you actively defend it.

Kind of like adverse possession with land, where you fix the neighbors fence and mow the grass for 20 years or whatever, you can claim it's now yours in court, if someone registers a trademark, but then never defends it and lets everyone walk all over them they eventually won't be able to win in court if they ever do someday decide to try and defend it or prevent others from using it.

Still picayune in your case.  =|
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 07, 2014, 05:10:09 PM
Oh, I know it's not personal. It's just aggravating. I don't think that anyone is going to think that GLOCK is making the Trijicon night sights for the Glocks, nor the Pearce grips for the Glocks.

These ball washers are no doubt sending this same email to thousands of retailers, who will have to spend tens of thousands of man hours changing text on millions of website pages. This at a time when the retailers are spending all their time trying to just stay afloat. Why not give them some busywork?

It almost makes me wonder if the attorneys--who may themselves be slow--didn't say to Glock, "hey, you know there's a lot of internet retailers who are using the Glock name with products not made by Glock. Want us to take care of that? Yeah? Okay. That'll be $150,000 for us to send out the emails."
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: brimic on August 07, 2014, 05:18:21 PM
Not certified mail? Ignore.
You'll get more messages one way or another but why not make them pay to be, pardon the term, dicks?
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: AJ Dual on August 07, 2014, 05:23:58 PM
Not certified mail? Ignore.
You'll get more messages one way or another but why not make them pay to be, pardon the term, dicks?

Good point.

Change nothing. Or at least wait and see what happens to a sampling of the verbiage of Glock accessories on MidwayUSA, Brownell's, Amazon, OpticsPlanet etc.

Also, it could also be a quasi-scam, the way the lawyers just refer/sell/collect class action lawsuit participants around to each other, or are just glorified debt-collectors who just happen to belong to the state bar.

Just a WAG, but it could even be some sort of deal where the law firm wasn't directly retained by Glock, but they get paid somehow if they see you changed the wording. Or even more likely, some web crawler/script does it for them.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 07, 2014, 05:25:31 PM
Don't ignore lest they DO send you a certified letter... which will undoubtedly contain something much higher up the legal food chain than an official-o-gram.  Nip it in the bud while it's still an easy an cheap fix.  Ignoring it will likely get you on some junior attorney's hit list, making you their ticket to Getting Noticed.  At the least a huge-er inconvenience, and likely drawn out and expensive.  Play the good guy now and keep the See I Play Nice bridge open.

Don't feel bad. Most large companies have (sometimes overly) aggressive trademark protection plans.   Simply change the descriptions to read "Manufacturer, Product Name and Part#l: fits Glock Model".  Send the proposed change to Miss I. Am TehLaw and get an approval. Once you have the agreement and keep to it they can't hammer you with any more nastrygrams without some significant legal maneuvering on their part.

Brad
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: brimic on August 07, 2014, 05:48:46 PM
Don't ignore lest they DO send you a certified letter... which will undoubtedly contain something much higher up the legal food chain than an official-o-gram.  Nip it in the bud while it's still an easy an cheap fix.  Ignoring it will likely get you on some junior attorney's hit list, making you their ticket to Getting Noticed.  At the least a huge-er inconvenience, and likely drawn out and expensive.  Play the good guy now and keep the See I Play Nice bridge open.

Don't feel bad. Most large companies have (sometimes overly) aggressive trademark protection plans.   Simply change the descriptions to read "Manufacturer, Product Name and Part#l: fits Glock Model".  Send the proposed change to Miss I. Am TehLaw and get an approval. Once you have the agreement and keep to it they can't hammer you with any more nastrygrams without some significant legal maneuvering on their part.

Brad

Do you change your behavior everytime skme random weirdo sends you an officious sounding email?
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: KD5NRH on August 07, 2014, 06:06:21 PM
:%s/Glock/XDv0.5b
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 07, 2014, 06:11:25 PM

Do you change your behavior everytime skme random weirdo sends you an officious sounding email?

Ever hear of a phone? They can, and sometimes have, been used to verify the validity of things like the message above.  A quick call to Glock America would get the question answered.

Besides, the message has none of the hallmarks of a "random wierdo" like asking for money, making strange offers, or having unprofessional/odd grammar and sentence structuring.  It also addresses what are legitimate trademark concerns and comes from an easily verifiable US address/firm.  Ignoring it outright when it's so easy to verify would be the height of business irresponsibility.

Brad
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 07, 2014, 06:42:38 PM
I'll call Glock. Chances are nobody will know anything, except for the person who: a) has a full voicemail box or; b) is out of town until after Labor Day.

The manufacturers almost make it as difficult to do business as do the weirdo customers.

Trijicon was hassling me again about showing below-MAP prices. So, I changed the site to show MAP prices, but then had "save $XXX by entering coupon code TRJT-xxx in the Discount box at checkout." This satisfied Trijicon, but I told the woman I was dealing with there that I wouldn't get another Trijicon sale. People are just too wary. If it's anything out of the norm, they run like hell.

I sold an ACOG on the morning of June 24th. I put up the MAP prices and coupon codes that afternoon. I didn't sell another Trijicon product at all after that. None. Nothing from 6/24 to 8/5.

Finally frustrated, I changed the price files back to the non-MAP prices over the weekend, and got rid of the coupon codes. I uploaded the new price files on Monday. On Tuesday I sold three ACOG's, and yesterday sold two.

Trijicon will probably contact me in a few weeks, and I'll go through it all again. If they threaten me, I'll just stop selling their brand. Why bother with updating their prices, models and photos  if I'm not going to sell any of their product?
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Tallpine on August 07, 2014, 06:53:03 PM
Do you have any GLOCK mocassins  ???
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Marnoot on August 07, 2014, 07:25:24 PM
You mean these aren't all official GLOCK components?

(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6Gszdtz.jpg&hash=71f1bb402a2cff963d16df470b79f56545805a91)
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: vaskidmark on August 07, 2014, 07:27:35 PM
As has been said, protecting a trademark means precisely that.

You might get around the TM announcement if you added the appropriate (TM) symbol to every word "GLOCK" that referred to one of their products, and changed your other descriptors to "xx for GLOCK(TM) <insert appropriate product name/model if not universal fit>.  Or you may have to add the banner regardless of how you revise the product descriptions.

Yes, it is a lot of work.  But then so is defending yourself in a losing court battle.

Why is GLOCK(TM) doing this?  Because Kimberly-Clark did not protect kleenex and Xerox likewise did not protect their product, allowing them to become generic descriptors of a whole line of like/similar products.

And speaking of moccasins - what features do the GLOCK(TM) ones have that the others do not?  Does GLOCK(TM) offer the same warranty as on their firearm products?

stay safe.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 07, 2014, 08:27:45 PM
Quote
Why is GLOCK(TM) doing this?  Because Kimberly-Clark did not protect kleenex and Xerox likewise did not protect their product, allowing them to become generic descriptors of a whole line of like/similar products.

Do you know how desperately some companies try to have their brands become generic descriptions of similar products? Yes, somebody buying another brand of tissue may call it Kleenex, but when people think of facial tissue, the name Kleenex comes to mind. Kleenex immediately has a leg up on the competition.

Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Boomhauer on August 07, 2014, 09:54:43 PM
Oftentimes issues crop up in the firearms world due to airsoft copies (particularly accessories such as optics, parts, sights, and when I say copy, I mean clone with identical markings being passed off as legit OEM product). That is probably what Glock is most concerned about, and they are just covering their bases.



Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: onions! on August 07, 2014, 10:12:39 PM
Some years back General Motors cracked down pretty convincingly on copyright infringers.

People were selling LOTS of knockoff restoration parts,garage accessories(lamps,clocks,swag),clothing,and stuff I don't remember.

The point is that some of the stuff was quality.It upheld the brand standard.
Lots of it was cheap crap that harmed GMs reputation.

I'd either comply fully or stop selling the stuff.Simple.
Keeping up the status quo and planning on doing nothing unless you're facing legal action is foolish.

Price of doing business.
Title: Re:
Post by: K Frame on August 07, 2014, 10:33:47 PM
Or would cost them a lot more if they were to ignore it and lose the mark as a result.

Ignoring Pepsi for 30 years is how Coke lost exclusive rights to Cola.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 07, 2014, 10:38:36 PM
Think Glock is being stiff? Be glad you aren't in the computer accessory (Apple) or gaming (Xbox/Playstation) business.

Brad
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: CNYCacher on August 07, 2014, 10:48:24 PM
Quote
they could instead read “Pearce Magazine Extension Plus 2 for Glock’s 20/21,”

The apostrophe makes baby jesus cry.

But seriously, GLOCKTM has to do this. If they don't they run the risk of GLOCKTM becoming genericalizedc 2014 CNYCacher.

If they don't send these notices out religiously, eventually someone will challenge them on the name and they might lose it.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 08, 2014, 01:00:13 AM
Quote

If they don't send these notices out religiously, eventually someone will challenge them on the name and they might lose it.

They've already lost it. How many journalists call shotguns, revolvers, and derringers "Glock"? ;)
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: vaskidmark on August 08, 2014, 06:27:39 AM
Do you know how desperately some companies try to have their brands become generic descriptions of similar products? Yes, somebody buying another brand of tissue may call it Kleenex, but when people think of facial tissue, the name Kleenex comes to mind. Kleenex immediately has a leg up on the competition.

What makes you believe that?  Kleenex(TM) lost their leg up when it stopped being a brand and became a generic descriptor.  Hardly andbody goes shopping for Kleenex(TM) - instead they cruise the aisles for the lowest priced box of kleenex.  Don't know if you are old enough to remember when K-C came out with their Kleenex(TM) brand and all the hoopla over how superior it was to other facial tissues.  They were after brand recognition and brand loyalty, and lost both.

They've already lost it. How many journalists call shotguns, revolvers, and derringers "Glock"? ;)

They go after them, too.  Sully the reputation of the product means less sales means less income.  It may seem a losing battle, but again if they don't fight it they lose.  When they fight it they may not win outright, but they do build ammunition for the day when they do sue some journalist.

Have you registered your website under all/some of the most common extensions (.net, .bus, .whatever) or are you willing to take the chance that someone will not come along and steal business away?  If you have, you are like GLOCK(TM); if you have not you are like Kimberly-Clark.

stay safe.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Tallpine on August 08, 2014, 08:55:35 AM
Would it really take all that much more time to change your web text than to complain about it on APS ?   =|
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: lee n. field on August 08, 2014, 09:09:08 AM
Quote
trademark protection

---delete, already covered-----
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: lee n. field on August 08, 2014, 09:09:47 AM
Would it really take all that much more time to change your web text than to complain about it on APS ?   =|

Do both!
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: K Frame on August 08, 2014, 09:47:19 AM
They've already lost it. How many journalists call shotguns, revolvers, and derringers "Glock"? ;)

Journalism doesn't count. It's considered a fair use exception under the Lanham Act.

You MIGHT be able to claim a comparative advertising fair use, but I think that's a huge stretch as you're not comparing firearms from different manufacturers.


"The apostrophe makes baby jesus cry."

The apostrophe as used in that sentence is correct.



"Do you know how desperately some companies try to have their brands become generic descriptions of similar products?"

The vital distinction is that they try do so at the EXPENSE of the other company, NOT at the expense of losing their own trademark!

Xerox may well have become the "unofficial official name" for photostatic copying, but Xerox did so by dominating the market and crushing competition for the better part of 30 years. And it wasn't competitors using Xerox that killed the Xerox mark -- it was an antitrust suit by the US Government that FORCED Xerox to relinquish many of it patents, leaving the market wide open to competitors.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: K Frame on August 08, 2014, 09:57:23 AM
"Don't know if you are old enough to remember when K-C came out with their Kleenex(TM) brand and all the hoopla over how superior it was to other facial tissues."

You were around in 1925?

That's when Kimberly-Clarke first started advertising Kleenex.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I don't shop for kleenex, I shop for tissues.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 08, 2014, 10:15:18 AM
Would it really take all that much more time to change your web text than to complain about it on APS ?   =|

Yes. Much more time.

For the Trijicon MAP hassle, it takes an entire weekend. I sell 48 different ACOG models, and God-knows-how-many other Trijicon products. I'm can't be price competitive on the non-ACOG products, so I just price them at 10% over cost when I'm showing non-MAP prices, and just show MAP prices when Trijicon hassles me about it.

To change from non-MAP prices to MAP prices on the ACOG's, I have to create 48 new attributes for the coupon codes for each model, so that I can create coupon codes for each. Then I have to modify the files for each model to add its new attribute.

Then I have to create new coupon codes for each model, or modify existing coupon codes, in the shopping cart backend. To do that I need to create an Excel file with all of my ACOG sku's and prices. Then I need to take all of Trijicon's MAP prices and do a sort in Excel to find the MAP prices for each sku that I sell. Then I need to subtract my price from the MAP price to come up with the value for the coupon. Then I enter those coupon values in each of the 48 different coupon codes.

Then I need to change the titles and descriptions of each of the 48 ACOG's to instruct the customer to enter the code in the Discount box at checkout, and indicate how much the customer will save (the coupon value). Once the coupon codes are created or updated, the prices changed, and the titles descriptions changed, I upload the new prices, descriptions and titles.

There's two sites where I offer special pricing on various products, including ACOG's. I use different coupon codes for each site. So, after doing all of the above for the general ACOG prices, I have to do pretty much all of the same for the 96 coupon codes for the two sites.

So, yes, it's a lot less work to complain here on APS. ;)
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: CNYCacher on August 08, 2014, 10:27:22 AM
I see a lot of people using an apostrophe followed by "s" to indicate plurality and it activates my inner curmudgeon. Perhaps so much so that I see it where it's not.

I suppose since it says " . . . for Glock's 20/21" and not just " . . . for Glock's" then yes it could be correct possessive use.

I read it as " . . . for Glocks 20 and 21" indicating "Glock 20 and Glock 21" which would be incorrect use of apostrophe to indicate plurality, and you read it as "the 20 and the 21 {by,of,from} Glock" which would be correct use of the apostrophe to indicate possession.

An interesting anomaly of language: the apostrophe is either correct or incorrect depending on the intent of the author.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: K Frame on August 08, 2014, 10:41:28 AM
As used in that sentence, it appears to mean the guns manufactured by Glock, so Glock's 21/22 is correct.

It's used in the same context as Colt's is on the top three advertisements on this page...

http://www.coltautos.com/1905ci_advertisements.htm
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Tallpine on August 08, 2014, 11:21:01 AM
Yes. Much more time. ...  So, yes, it's a lot less work to complain here on APS. ;)

I do C/C++ development rather than web stuff, but I'm pretty sure that there are design methods that let you centralize and semi-automate a lot of those changes.

I bet that you could set up your MAP/non-MAP to toggle for all web pages just by changing one attribute somewhere.

And surely you can search all your files for occurences of "Glock" etc  ;)
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: GigaBuist on August 08, 2014, 11:25:42 PM
I do C/C++ development rather than web stuff, but I'm pretty sure that there are design methods that let you centralize and semi-automate a lot of those changes.

I bet that you could set up your MAP/non-MAP to toggle for all web pages just by changing one attribute somewhere.

It's not difficult from a tech standpoint but Monkeyleg isn't a programmer.  So, he's gotta used the system he's stuck with unless he wants to shell out money to change it.

In my own system making coupons for our retail POS isn't fast and clear either.  Why?  Never planned on using them much.  So, rather than spend 40-60 hours to do it right I just snuck in the bare minimum of code needed to make it work in 6-8 hours.  I'll fix it up if we decide to keep doing them next year.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 08, 2014, 11:59:10 PM
Thanks, GigaBuist. It also doesn't make sense to pay a programmer to come up with a way to automate changing prices and descriptions to MAP so I can't sell any of those products.

Really, none of this makes much sense to me. Trijicon tells me that they enforce their MAP policies because they don't want their products to be perceived as cheap. I don't think that anyone feels a TA31FRMR is cheap, no matter if they're paying Optics Planet $1850 or me $1600. There's plenty of people who think $1600 is expensive.

Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Tallpine on August 09, 2014, 11:29:50 AM
It's not difficult from a tech standpoint but Monkeyleg isn't a programmer.  So, he's gotta used the system he's stuck with unless he wants to shell out money to change it.

In my own system making coupons for our retail POS isn't fast and clear either.  Why?  Never planned on using them much.  So, rather than spend 40-60 hours to do it right I just snuck in the bare minimum of code needed to make it work in 6-8 hours.  I'll fix it up if we decide to keep doing them next year.
Yeah, that's quite clear  :P  But he is running an online business that requires web programming and trying to do it himself.  That's okay until it gets big or complicated, at which point one needs to learn to do it right or pay someone to at least redesign the whole thing to make it maintainable (or else find another way to earn a living).
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: AJ Dual on August 09, 2014, 02:16:23 PM
Thanks, GigaBuist. It also doesn't make sense to pay a programmer to come up with a way to automate changing prices and descriptions to MAP so I can't sell any of those products.

Really, none of this makes much sense to me. Trijicon tells me that they enforce their MAP policies because they don't want their products to be perceived as cheap. I don't think that anyone feels a TA31FRMR is cheap, no matter if they're paying Optics Planet $1850 or me $1600. There's plenty of people who think $1600 is expensive.


I've run into this attitude in business many times where they worship at the altar of margin to the point they'd rather make $100k @ 10% rather than $1 Million at 2%.

Granted,  it is true that the margin/volume trap kills many businesses,  like many that get squeezed by Walmart,  but I've seen more who refuse to grow at all or chase any increase in market share out of fear of it.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 09, 2014, 08:33:39 PM
Yeah, that's quite clear  :P  But he is running an online business that requires web programming and trying to do it himself.  That's okay until it gets big or complicated, at which point one needs to learn to do it right or pay someone to at least redesign the whole thing to make it maintainable (or else find another way to earn a living).

GFY.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 09, 2014, 10:06:06 PM
GFY.

Gotta back up Pine one this one. You're at a barrier of where aptitude has become a seriously limiting factor in your ability effectively manage your site.   You really need to consider having your site professionally redesigned for more automation, purchase a site software package with the controls you need, or spend some serious time learning site development on a much more in-dspth basis.

Brad
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 09, 2014, 11:02:10 PM
Gotta back up Pine one this one. You're at a barrier of where aptitude has become a seriously limiting factor in your ability effectively manage your site.   You really need to consider having your site professionally redesigned for more automation, purchase a site software package with the controls you need, or spend some serious time learning site development on a much more in-dspth basis.

Brad

It is automated. Out of the box, Magento is a good shopping cart system, and I've purchased a lot of plug-ins to handle more customized tasks.

It's not automated to change "Glock" to "for Glock" or "fits Glock" or "factory Glock" or "Glock OEM", and I don't think that there's software that can be written, at least cost effectively, that can discern when which term is proper or sounds the best, and where in the title or description to best insert the words.

As for the coupon codes, if I do much more of that than I am now, I could look at a plug-in for the Magento software I'm using. I don't think it's cost effective to pay a thousand or more for something to generate coupon codes and values, and change titles and descriptions, when it's something I'm doing on a very limited basis.

I've spent several thousand on this site, and I've also had the help of an expert member here on APS, whose favors I will return in the future.

What I do need to do is decide whether to play this game of cat and mouse with Trijicon, or just tell them to take their products and shove them. There's no sense spending time working on updating prices, models, etc for a brand when it's not going to sell.



Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 09, 2014, 11:29:08 PM

What I do need to do is decide whether to play this game of cat and mouse with Trijicon, or just tell them to take their products and shove them. There's no sense spending time working on updating prices, models, etc for a brand when it's not going to sell.





Then it's a straight cost/benefit analysis.

Brad
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: GigaBuist on August 09, 2014, 11:56:47 PM
Gotta back up Pine one this one. You're at a barrier of where aptitude has become a seriously limiting factor in your ability effectively manage your site. 

I disagree with you and Tallpine on this one.  Monkeyleg's problem is trying to figure out how to convince the public that he really does have the best prices without violating MAP policies from the vendors. That isn't a software problem, it's a marketing one.  When he flagrantly disregards MAP policies he sells stuff.  Coupon codes didn't work.  Was it inefficient to the coupon codes in the manner he did?  Yeah.  Should you go into a software design cycle for a retail experiment? No.  Not any more than is required.  I do it myself, and I'm actually a programmer.  My time, to myself, is cheap. On the clock as a contractor?  Not so much.  I won't even pay myself base rate, let alone proper market rate, for a simple experiment.  Monkeyleg would be stupid to do what I wouldn't.  A couple extra hours slugging through Excel and uploading docs beats a $10k bill for custom work that might not pay off.

He doesn't have a tech problem.  He has an online retail marketing problem.  You can't tech your way out of that until you know the actual solution.  If it weren't for MAP policies his solution would be as simple as UPDATE products SET price = msrp*.80; ... BOOM done.

My only advise, and I think I've said this before, is to look to other online retailers.  Amazon being king.  "Add to cart" probably doesn't work well for you because of limited exposure and people being finicky about which product they buy.  Maybe offering $x toward the next purchase to bring the cost below MAP would work.  I know Amazon does that with games which basically puts them at a 30% discount if you pre-order.  That seems to work for them somehow.  Mail in rebate to yourself?  No idea. 
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 09, 2014, 11:59:10 PM
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Then it's a straight cost/benefit analysis.

Yep. The ACOG scopes were my highest-profit items, until Buds and GrabAGun and some other sites forced me to cut the prices to $50 above my cost. Optics Planet, too. They sell ACOG's for less than what I pay for them, and Trijicon tells me they're "trying" to get Optics Planet to comply with MAP.

Tallpine, I'm sorry for being an ass****. I'm ornery about some private things lately, and your post hit me at the wrong time.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Tallpine on August 10, 2014, 10:39:11 AM
Okay ... I was just trying to come up with a technical solution to a stated "problem".  If you wanted to play price games with Trijicon or anybody else, having a way to change the value of one global variable that toggled all relevant pages between $MAP and $(some % x MAP) would be helpful.

OTOH, you could just stick to selling moccassins  :lol:
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: KD5NRH on August 11, 2014, 02:16:08 PM
It's not automated to change "Glock" to "for Glock" or "fits Glock" or "factory Glock" or "Glock OEM", and I don't think that there's software that can be written, at least cost effectively, that can discern when which term is proper or sounds the best, and where in the title or description to best insert the words.

No, but those are all contained in text files somewhere.  Find the right stack of directories, and a batch search-and-replace becomes trivial.

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As for the coupon codes, if I do much more of that than I am now, I could look at a plug-in for the Magento software I'm using. I don't think it's cost effective to pay a thousand or more for something to generate coupon codes and values, and change titles and descriptions, when it's something I'm doing on a very limited basis.

Well, you really only need one very easily available 50% off code, then double all your prices.  MAP met.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: cordex on August 11, 2014, 02:27:18 PM
No, but those are all contained in text files somewhere.  Find the right stack of directories, and a batch search-and-replace becomes trivial.
In Magento they are all stored in a database, for which search-and-replace is even easier.  The problem as I understand it is that in some places you want to change "Glock" to "Glock OEM".  In other places you want change it to "fits Glock" or "for Glock" or whatever.  Universal search and replace doesn't fit this instance.
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Tallpine on August 11, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
In Magento they are all stored in a database, for which search-and-replace is even easier.  The problem as I understand it is that in some places you want to change "Glock" to "Glock OEM".  In other places you want change it to "fits Glock" or "for Glock" or whatever.  Universal search and replace doesn't fit this instance.

It would be a lot of work, but it beats just sitting around hanging out on APS  =D

Is it a 6V or 12V Magneto ???   :angel:
Title: Re: Don't gun companies have more serious things to worry about?
Post by: Monkeyleg on August 11, 2014, 08:29:47 PM
For something like this in Magento, you do an export using something as a filter. In this case I used the "description" column with "Glock" as the filter, and exported the file containing any items that had Glock in the description. Brought it into Excel, took the Glock sku's into their own file and changed "Glock" to "Glock OEM". Sometimes it says "Glock OEM" three times in a paragraph, but I can't hand-edit each one.

For the other sku's, I looked at what was written, and putting "for Glock" in almost all of them worked. So, just substitute "for Glock" for "Glock".

I did a quick read of everything and made hand changes where it seemed really necessary.

The sharks were happy, and just wanted the disclaimer at the bottom of every page that mentioned Glock. I told them I'd put the disclaimer in the Terms and Conditions page, but I wasn't going to screw around with the CSS and phtml files to try to make it fit without screwing up the design. They said they could live with that.