Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on May 04, 2024, 11:03:22 AM
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I ran into this tragic story from 2013. An elderly woman was hiking the Appalachian Trail and got lost while going off trail for a bathroom break. She remained lost for a month before dying of exposure (based on the journal they found).
This is one of those instances where she did the recommended thing by staying in one place, but would have been better off moving. Apparently Search and Rescue came within 100 yards of her tent, with dogs even, and missed her.
https://historicflix.com/the-heartbreaking-tale-of-geraldine-largay/
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100 yards is pretty far in thicker woods. I can see how they wouldn't see her. I am curious if they were making noise, but if she was sleeping maybe it wouldn't matter.
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100 yards is pretty far in thicker woods. I can see how they wouldn't see her. I am curious if they were making noise, but if she was sleeping maybe it wouldn't matter.
No doubt, which is why it appears she made the normally safe move to plant herself. Sadly, she was also pretty close to a clearing they flew over where they would have spotted her. The article mentioned she was "easily lost", and I wonder if she was just too scared to move even 50 yards?
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I think I recall that story, I often track stories about missing hikers.
I'm glad I spent a lot of time in the BSA in the early seventies.
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Most people would be shocked at the amount of people who die in the woods, and in areas that aren’t really that remote. It’s a fairly frequent occurrence oftened marked by nothing more than a local missing persons report.
We had a case of a guy who died just off trail (tumbled off a ledge) and it took three days to find his body, and that was on a fairly easy trail.
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She should have fired three shots in quick succession from time to time. I understand three shots (or three of anything) is a "universal" sign of trouble and gunfire can be heard with reasonable directionability for at least a mile, even through heavy woods.
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No doubt, which is why it appears she made the normally safe move to plant herself. Sadly, she was also pretty close to a clearing they flew over where they would have spotted her. The article mentioned she was "easily lost", and I wonder if she was just too scared to move even 50 yards?
As I remember, she knew her directional skills were poor, so she tried to find the trail, more or less circling around without getting more than a mile from where she started. She sat tight at that point, but the woods were thick enough she couldn't be found in time. If she had been able to walk in a single direction, she would have come upon a road in the distance she walked. A sad situation.
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Just walk downhill. You'll eventually come to a stream or something. Follow that...
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She should have fired three shots in quick succession from time to time. I understand three shots (or three of anything) is a "universal" sign of trouble and gunfire can be heard with reasonable directionability for at least a mile, even through heavy woods.
99% of the granola crowd ISN’T carrying a firearm.
Most of them aren’t carrying signaling equipment.
Many aren’t skilled in basic land navigation
Dogmush, for an example, is a very atypical representative of a hiker on the east coast. Most of the hikers on this side of the country do not think like Alaskans when it comes to the woods.
She should have exited the woods when her hiking companion did so. Fieldcraft is equally as important as physical fitness and a poor sense of direction is not a good thing in the woods.
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99% of the granola crowd ISN’T carrying a firearm.
Most of them aren’t carrying signaling equipment.
Many aren’t skilled in basic land navigation
Dogmush, for an example, is a very atypical representative of a hiker on the east coast. Most of the hikers on this side of the country do not think like Alaskans when it comes to the woods.
She should have exited the woods when her hiking companion did so. Fieldcraft is equally as important as physical fitness and a poor sense of direction is not a good thing in the woods.
A compass can help, but it is very easy to get off course going through thicker woods. You constantly have to go back and forth around underbrush and stuff and can easily find yourself off your line by a pretty good angle if you don't have any reference points to use. My experience is very slight, but I know that much.
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A compass can help, but it is very easy to get off course going through thicker woods. You constantly have to go back and forth around underbrush and stuff and can easily find yourself off your line by a pretty good angle if you don't have any reference points to use. My experience is very slight, but I know that much.
The sad death aside, it's interesting to think about how much less the likelihood is of this happening today, just eleven years later. At the time of the story, personal EPIRBS were already a thing. They were small enough that we wore them in our survival vests when flying, and I know that they were a thing with serious hikers, but they were still expensive enough and bulky enough that most recreational hikers wouldn't use them.
These days you can get a tiny personal locator for $300, and I just looked, and a McMurdo Fastfind, a PEPIRB similar to what I carried is even less, at $250. If Elon comes through, you won't even need a personal beacon - you could just use your phone.
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The sad death aside, it's interesting to think about how much less the likelihood is of this happening today, just eleven years later. At the time of the story, personal EPIRBS were already a thing. They were small enough that we wore them in our survival vests when flying, and I know that they were a thing with serious hikers, but they were still expensive enough and bulky enough that most recreational hikers wouldn't use them.
These days you can get a tiny personal locator for $300, and I just looked, and a McMurdo Fastfind, a PEPIRB similar to what I carried is even less, at $250. If Elon comes through, you won't even need a personal beacon - you could just use your phone.
And if not an EPIRB personal GPSs have long been available at reasonable cost, including mapping ones.
But you can tell her relying solely on a cellphone for personal comms means she probably wasn’t equipped with anything more in the categories of either navigation or communication/signaling.
It was very common for people we had to go into the woods after to have set off with nothing more than a half charged cellphone and a half full bottle of water or soda.
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She should have fired three shots in quick succession from time to time. I understand three shots (or three of anything) is a "universal" sign of trouble and gunfire can be heard with reasonable directionability for at least a mile, even through heavy woods.
99% of the granola crowd ISN’T carrying a firearm.
Most of them aren’t carrying signaling equipment.
Many aren’t skilled in basic land navigation
Dogmush, for an example, is a very atypical representative of a hiker on the east coast. Most of the hikers on this side of the country do not think like Alaskans when it comes to the woods.
She should have exited the woods when her hiking companion did so. Fieldcraft is equally as important as physical fitness and a poor sense of direction is not a good thing in the woods.
That was the point. And I think most of the Trail is in Park land anyway and if not in Park land, then in Monuments and Primitive Areas, Preserves, and other places where those eeeevil guns are not allowed.
Terry, 230RN
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There are some challenging wilderness areas in the east, buy they are few and far between. I would guess that 90% are within 2 miles of at least a forest service road. Go downhill, find water, follow that to bigger water, find something, even if is a seasonal cabin. Break in, improve your situation, apologize later. I had my dream compass, sold it, never use it.
That said withing ten miles of me there is a guy missing for 12 years. They found a body last week, not him. Local LE as per usual not being to forthcoming with who they found. I may well die in the wilderness, probably be a heart attack. Pretty okay with that.
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The sad death aside, it's interesting to think about how much less the likelihood is of this happening today, just eleven years later. At the time of the story, personal EPIRBS were already a thing. They were small enough that we wore them in our survival vests when flying, and I know that they were a thing with serious hikers, but they were still expensive enough and bulky enough that most recreational hikers wouldn't use them.
These days you can get a tiny personal locator for $300, and I just looked, and a McMurdo Fastfind, a PEPIRB similar to what I carried is even less, at $250. If Elon comes through, you won't even need a personal beacon - you could just use your phone.
I'm not sure you can just use your phone. First, that assumes your phone is charged. Beyond that, doesn't StarLink (like most satellite services) require a fairly clear view of the sky? In heavily forested terrain, I doubt she would be able to connect with a satellite. In days of youre, a Jeep club I was involved in was cutting a new Jeep trail at a now-defunct off-road park in Pennsylvania. One of the guys had a personal GPS that he was trying to use to plot waypoints for the trail we were building. It didn't work -- couldn't connect to the GPS satellites because of the trees.
I'm thinking an old-fashioned magnetic compass is still the best/easiest/cheapest solution. And if all you need is a general direction (east/west/north/south) rather than trying to navigate from a specific point to a known set of coordinates on a map, even a cheapie from Amazon will do thatwithout breaking the bank or adding significant weight.
I have a couple of good hand-held compasses I've had since Boy Scouts, but I bought a couple of these for just carrying in a day pack or in the glove box:
https://www.amazon.com/SE-CC45-1-Lensatic-Compass/dp/B000O5HL0I/ref=sr_1_22?crid=21S2LFG62QU8M&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.7BRPeOVY-YZfvoOY4bAP1pH1zHFxJ-NSIY0V5LkWa5oJp6gtzRCJleOgV6Q4-M3RUoUv8LDImnxp9J_iiYqtxwE-uVCBpwBbs8etq-fFqz6sf2NuwmkL1F8UYTM7ix2gzfWbkUeSG3xhsm95MeIV1Kikb3n9G6iAFswEWlxfBMj6xks_QaDsw5XdFVAVjAl3mIEUzAuy_nBqhtvK_K69Dz1ncJQIiit2_SHqGS1CuSqO7XlAbTOwS3aLrJTvF0lLQamSpKjm2nzJWBbqXOfvskc3phpSAALDw0A6LqbOSdE.9Q_eSd1r7ZQu9CHFPJ_XAwndft1tsyQdHVXOqo3OEbE&dib_tag=se&keywords=hand+bearing+compass&qid=1714930976&sprefix=hand+compass%2Caps%2C918&sr=8-22
I also have compass apps on my cell phone and tablet. Unfortunately, my phone and my small tablet are lower-end Samsungs that don't include a magnetometer, so the compass function only works on GPS and only when you're moving fast enough for the system to register a direction of travel. A normal walking pace is enough, I don't have to run -- but it won't work if it can't pick up multiple satellites.
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GPS devices have improved dramatically in the last 20 years, they can get signal in much denser forest than they used to.
The PLBs you can get these days will let you send a message (some you have to preprogram) that will include the last semi-reliable location fix. If you hit the panic button it will send messages a particular intervals until it's told to stop or the batteries die.
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I'm not sure you can just use your phone. First, that assumes your phone is charged. Beyond that, doesn't StarLink (like most satellite services) require a fairly clear view of the sky? In heavily forested terrain, I doubt she would be able to connect with a satellite.
The Starlink/Tmobile stuff has already been tested in overhead coverage and inside buildings and (usually) works in those locations. You can always find enough of an opening in a forest canopy to get a signal, even if intermittent, which is all you need for an under 1K text message with coordinates and a short message.
You can probably right now open up a GPS app on your phone and get a signal in your house. I do it all the time with my phone and watch.
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You can probably right now open up a GPS app on your phone and get a signal in your house. I do it all the time with my phone and watch.
Actually ... I can't.
I have wasted more time than I care to admit playing with compass apps, GPS speedometer apps, and avionics apps. NONE of them will pick up a signal while in my house. This is on a Samsung Eclipse J3 cell phone, two burner cell phones, a Samsung Galaxy Tab A6 tablet, and a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet.
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Actually ... I can't.
I have wasted more time than I care to admit playing with compass apps, GPS speedometer apps, and avionics apps. NONE of them will pick up a signal while in my house. This is on a Samsung Eclipse J3 cell phone, two burner cell phones, a Samsung Galaxy Tab A6 tablet, and a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet.
Sounds like you need a new house. =D
This is GPS Status inside my house right now. +-10' under the roof.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53701383008_d5f5c9635f_w.jpg)
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It's interesting that this popped up this weekend. I actually taught a land navy class to my unit at Drill this weekend. One of the "this is why it matters to you stories" was a SSG (E6) that got lost last year doing land nav at Ft. Jackson and died 50 m outside the land nav course.
And yes, I am super atypical for most people I know going into the woods but between my time in Alaska, and basic Murphy protection, I'd rather carry more than I have to. The line between civilization and dying alone in the woods is often very thin, and less than a 20 min walk from where you meant to be.
FYI, you can go to www.caltopo.com and print topo maps free, of anywhere in the US and take one with you, just in case. I use 1:50,000 and MGRS because I like it, but you can play with your grid overlay and scale to your hearts content. Free. No reason not to have a map.
Funny story: Mrs. Mush, my mother, and I flew to Vegas a couple years back to climb Mt. Charleston. Like 16 mile round trip and 6500ish feet up. Mrs mush got food poisoning the night before, but we tried the hike anyway. She also got a touch of altitude sickness when we got over 10,000'. When we turned around, we were already late, and by the time we got to like 7 miles from the car, things were going bad. Mrs. Mush was that part of hypothermic where she was trying to take clothes off, storm had come in with 35 or so kt winds on the ridge we were on, dark was like 2.5 hours away, and we were moving 1.5 mph or so. It was decided that I'd go ahead to a high point get some cell service and call 911 to let Rescue know that we were at least out there, and what was going on.
Made the call, talked to a very professional lady at mountain rescue dispatch, told here we were still moving but we might end up stuck out here. Going down her checklist she asked what we had for supplies. I said "It was only supposed to be a day hike so not all that much. We're down to 6 liters of water, two gallon bags of trail mix, cheese and meat, fire starter, 4 space blankets, some 550 cord, 3 flashlights, one headlamp, our phones, two battery banks for the phones, good knife, standalone GPS, map, compass., and first aid kit" There was a solid 5 count pause, and she was like " Okaaaaay, seems like you have enough to make it to tomorrow if you need to."
We made it off the mountain about 2230, called them back and let them know, and they thanked us for both fixing it ourselves and thinking to give them a heads up.
Mrs. Mush put this sticker on her water bottle after that.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0617/7485/files/expecttoselfrescuecampfirelargesticker30secout.jpg?v=1694266441)
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Sounds like you need a new house. =D
This is GPS Status inside my house right now. +-10' under the roof.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53701383008_d5f5c9635f_w.jpg)
What did you use to run that check? Is that an Android app?
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What did you use to run that check? Is that an Android app?
GPS Status. Android app.
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Sounds like you need a new house. =D
Possibly. I know (since this house was built by my parents when I was six years old, and I have done some alterations on it myself) that the insulation isn't fiberglass or mineral wool, it's multi-layer aluminum foil. Since seeing your map, I just installed a "GPS Status" app and I have it running. It has been seeking for ten minutes and it hasn't found any satellites yet.
I may be living in a Faraday cage ...
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Possibly. I know (since this house was built by my parents when I was six years old, and I have done some alterations on it myself) that the insulation isn't fiberglass or mineral wool, it's multi-layer aluminum foil. Since seeing your map, I just installed a "GPS Status" app and I have it running. It has been seeking for ten minutes and it hasn't found any satellites yet.
I may be living in a Faraday cage ...
So, your house wears a tinfoil hat.
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My favorite local appalachian story is a few years back in April the weather went from nice day hike to sleet squalls. A huge rescue went into operation for a 40 some strong contingent of boy scouts and their "leaders." Be Prepared. Jesus wept.
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I'm glad I spent a lot of time in the BSA in the early seventies.
At the tender age of 11.5, I was taught how to read a paper map as I had to "navigate" for my Mother as she took me and my younger brother out west for 6 weeks.
Our Dad was with us the first 2 weeks (Denver, Royal Gorge, Black Canyon of the Gunnison, Mesa Verde, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Lake Mead, & Disneyland), then we spent 4 weeks out there - just the 3 of us. Hearst Castle at San Simeon, SF, Yosemite, King's Canyon & Sequoia, Wupatki Indian ruins in norther AZ, Sunset Crater, Arches, and Canyonlands, then home.
Talk about "memories" !! =D
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So, your house wears a tinfoil hat.
Yep. Saves me having to wear one, unless I go outdoors.
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So, your house wears a tinfoil hat.
This sounds like a reasonable trade-off for the GPS app not working.
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It's interesting that this popped up this weekend. I actually taught a land navy class to my unit at Drill this weekend. One of the "this is why it matters to you stories" was a SSG (E6) that got lost last year doing land nav at Ft. Jackson and died 50 m outside the land nav course.
And yes, I am super atypical for most people I know going into the woods but between my time in Alaska, and basic Murphy protection, I'd rather carry more than I have to. The line between civilization and dying alone in the woods is often very thin, and less than a 20 min walk from where you meant to be.
FYI, you can go to www.caltopo.com and print topo maps free, of anywhere in the US and take one with you, just in case. I use 1:50,000 and MGRS because I like it, but you can play with your grid overlay and scale to your hearts content. Free. No reason not to have a map.
Funny story: Mrs. Mush, my mother, and I flew to Vegas a couple years back to climb Mt. Charleston. Like 16 mile round trip and 6500ish feet up. Mrs mush got food poisoning the night before, but we tried the hike anyway. She also got a touch of altitude sickness when we got over 10,000'. When we turned around, we were already late, and by the time we got to like 7 miles from the car, things were going bad. Mrs. Mush was that part of hypothermic where she was trying to take clothes off, storm had come in with 35 or so kt winds on the ridge we were on, dark was like 2.5 hours away, and we were moving 1.5 mph or so. It was decided that I'd go ahead to a high point get some cell service and call 911 to let Rescue know that we were at least out there, and what was going on.
Made the call, talked to a very professional lady at mountain rescue dispatch, told here we were still moving but we might end up stuck out here. Going down her checklist she asked what we had for supplies. I said "It was only supposed to be a day hike so not all that much. We're down to 6 liters of water, two gallon bags of trail mix, cheese and meat, fire starter, 4 space blankets, some 550 cord, 3 flashlights, one headlamp, our phones, two battery banks for the phones, good knife, standalone GPS, map, compass., and first aid kit" There was a solid 5 count pause, and she was like " Okaaaaay, seems like you have enough to make it to tomorrow if you need to."
We made it off the mountain about 2230, called them back and let them know, and they thanked us for both fixing it ourselves and thinking to give them a heads up.
Mrs. Mush put this sticker on her water bottle after that.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0617/7485/files/expecttoselfrescuecampfirelargesticker30secout.jpg?v=1694266441)
I love this story, dogmush, thanks for posting it.
I got lost hunting several years ago. I even had a GPS with me. I had wandered several miles on foot from my base camp, opting to scout some territory in the White Mountains that were reasonably removed from forest roads. The forest was thick enough that I couldn't see familiar peaks, and I was also several miles away from a familiar canyon that makes for a good nav reference. The big thing that got me though, was dehydration. Left camp with a partially full camelbak, lower than I estimated. Also hadn't been good about hydrating when coming back to camp after several days out in the woods. Started reading the GPS incorrectly due to that. I ended up coming out of the backcountry onto a totally separate set of roads than I anticipated, about 3 miles from camp but at least recognizing the road numbers.
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Dogmush related:
"Going down her checklist she asked what we had for supplies. I said "It was only supposed to be a day hike so not all that much. We're down to 6 liters of water, two gallon bags of trail mix, cheese and meat, fire starter, 4 space blankets, some 550 cord, 3 flashlights, one headlamp, our phones, two battery banks for the phones, good knife, standalone GPS, map, compass., and first aid kit" There was a solid 5 count pause, and she was like ' Okaaaaay, seems like you have enough to make it to tomorrow if you need to.'"
Heh-heh. Wisecrackey me would have said "I should call you if I need rescuing!"
I'll never forget my Noo Yawk Scoutmaster showing us how to start a fire at one of those really really rainy Jamborees in upstate Noo Yawk. (Yes, along or nearby the Appalachian Trail.)
Everybody was having trouble starting a fire and good ole Scoutmaster Larry gathered us together around our little soaking wet correctly assembled fire pile and asked us what the Boy Scout Motto was.
"Be prepared!"
Then he pulled a can of Ronsonol out of his pack and dribbled a little onto the wet pile of tinder, and touched a match to it.
Voila! We were the only ones who got a fire started in such short order.
Be prepared. Noo Yawk style.
Terry, 230RN
REF (SInce so few people smoke cigarettes any more):
Don't overdo it !
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/C58DRG/can-of-ronsonol-lighter-fluid-sometimes-used-as-an-inhalant-C58DRG.jpg)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxsMJbE18_4
I saw this a while back on making cheap fire starters with wax. Never got around to trying to make them.
Lighters and lighter fluid would likely be quicker and easier.
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In my youth I would use Vaseline soaked cotton balls kept in an altoids tin as a fire starter. Worked really well, was cheap, easy to make, and if not 100% water proof, then at least *very* water resistant.
These days I carry commercial fire starters as they are not that expensive, last darn near forever thrown in the bottom of my bag, and IME work pretty much 100% of the time.
Jack London's "To Build a Fire" deeply affected me when I was a kid dogsledding in AK.
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She should have fired three shots in quick succession from time to time. I understand three shots (or three of anything) is a "universal" sign of trouble and gunfire can be heard with reasonable directionability for at least a mile, even through heavy woods.
We would do that, and work through a big decision tree to optimize the decision. Newly retired Karen from HR doing a hike, no.
Also, weight. My quite possibly erroneous impression is that serious hikers care a lot about weight, and if carrying at all aren't likely to be carrying much ammo. (.22LR would do for the purpose, and you can carry a lot of it.)
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That Jack London got to me and I live where it's warm. At some point having six ways to start a fire becomes a little overkill. Lil tiny ferro rod and tinder that fits in my SAK corkscrew is my new affection.
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My scoutmaster had been a nav or bombadier over Germany, and got shot down, spent the rest of the war in a POW camp. He didn't really like camping.
You can start a fire with two sticks as long as one of them is a match, and you have gasoline. But he did teach us how to do it the "right" way too. We also cooked in the coals, and the man did like food. And when he retired to his personal pup tent, you did not disturb him... I think that was helped by the bourbon. The Colonel was a great man, and patient.
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That Jack London got to me and I live where it's warm. At some point having six ways to start a fire becomes a little overkill. Lil tiny ferro rod and tinder that fits in my SAK corkscrew is my new affection.
Ever tried it in less than ideal conditions?
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My current backpacking/hiking fire starter is those impregnated rope ones (Blackbeard is the brand I use) and a ferro rod/striker. Pretty dang reliable.
When overlanding in the truck I bring a couple bags of match light charcoal to start fires.
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My scoutmaster had been a nav or bombadier over Germany, and got shot down, spent the rest of the war in a POW camp. He didn't really like camping.
You can start a fire with two sticks as long as one of them is a match, and you have gasoline. But he did teach us how to do it the "right" way too. We also cooked in the coals, and the man did like food. And when he retired to his personal pup tent, you did not disturb him... I think that was helped by the bourbon. The Colonel was a great man, and patient.
My Scoutmaster was a Radioman and was in the Battle of the Bulge. He had a Springfield rifle and a very hush-hush top secret swore us to secrecy 9mm pistol he showed us. This was New York City, you understand. Wasn't a Luger, but I forget what it was. Lost touch with him when we moved to Colorado. "Erfurth?" Does that sound right? Vague recollection from the late 1950s but I seem to recall it had the same kind of look as a 1911.
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In my youth I would use Vaseline soaked cotton balls kept in an altoids tin as a fire starter. Worked really well, was cheap, easy to make, and if not 100% water proof, then at least *very* water resistant.
These days I carry commercial fire starters as they are not that expensive, last darn near forever thrown in the bottom of my bag, and IME work pretty much 100% of the time.
Jack London's "To Build a Fire" deeply affected me when I was a kid dogsledding in AK.
Was that the one where he finally got a fire going under the tree which ended badly? And the dog lived happily ever after?
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My Scoutmaster was a Radioman and was in the Battle of the Bulge. He had a Springfield rifle and a very hush-hush top secret swore us to secrecy 9mm pistol he showed us. This was New York City, you understand. Wasn't a Luger, but I forget what it was. Lost touch with him when we moved to Colorado. "Erfurth?" Does that sound right? Vague recollection from the late 1950s but I seem to recall it had the same kind of look as a 1911.
Erfurt arsenal made Lugers. A quick g00gle isn't showing me what else they might have made.
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Was that the one where he finally got a fire going under the tree which ended badly? And the dog lived happily ever after?
Yup.
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In case anyone here is considering hiking the trail with their dog(s):
https://twitter.com/armedhippy4/status/1787847472405991933
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM-1zRrXsAA8JMR?format=jpg&name=large)
To whomever is doing this: may you experience a slow, agonizing death.
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^^^
Someone(s) needs to die a slow and agonizing death.
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Lots of other animals other than dogs that could eat that
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As this thread has pointed out, it doesn't take very far off the beaten trail and people get lost for good.
Whomever is dropping those needs to stay in the woods for the rest of their life.
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Dropping those dog treats around might be hungry work. Maybe the person got so hungry they tried eating all of them that could be found.
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Terry - in cleaning out my Mother's house after she passed, I found (and kept) at least 6 full or partial bottles of lighter fluid which I added to the three I already had. ;)
MechAg94 - as I already make candles (pillars & jars), I did make some of those egg crate starters for my fireplace. Unlike that video, I trim off all the excess crate, leaving only the bottom and I don't try to stuff as much in as he did. I make a "twist spike" of the lint before adding the wax and I use a "soup ladle" to transfer the wax from pan to crate. By only doing the bottom tray, it also makes it easier to cut them apart and with the spike now waxed, it becomes the wick to light the pod.
Because I make candles, I frequently have cheap paper towels that I wipe the ladle and jars with and they get a fair amount of wax on them. I stuff those loosely in the TP tubes and also use those for firestarters in the fireplace. Because there isn't as much wax or filler in them, they only last for 3-5 minutes but that is sufficient to start the fire in the fireplace. I also don't want too much paraffin going up the chimney although my fires are hot enough to keep that from building up.
Ben and Angel Eyes - AGREE with both of you ! And what about other animals (coyotes, opossum, cats - feral & bobcat, racoon) that might be adversely affected? Despicable. :facepalm: