Author Topic: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.  (Read 6331 times)

White Horseradish

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2010, 02:29:41 PM »
Seems like something with a combination lock is in order - can't take the keys if there are no keys...
Political tags - such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth - are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.

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roo_ster

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2010, 04:48:04 PM »
That's what I'm afraid of. At some point the abuses will have to be addressed. How it gets done, will not be pretty.

No, it won't.
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kgbsquirrel

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2010, 07:56:01 AM »
So I take it no one else has been able to find anything on this story outside of that site either?

RevDisk

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2010, 12:57:36 PM »

People respond to incentives.  This is why capitalism succeeded and communism failed.  It's what built America. 

85% of people, whether law enforcement or not, are mostly good.  Not perfect, but decent individuals.  The remainder is split between angels and demons.  Some folks are damn near saints, and some are damn near monsters.  Those folks don't entirely react very well to incentives, but they get handled (hopefully) through natural selection anyways.  I don't buy the "da cops are teh evil" or "the cops completely violate the laws of probability in regards to human nature and have an absolutely squeaky clean civil rights record".  It is not either extreme.  But I would argue that they are being given too many negative incentives that should not be allowed to be applicable.

If you want the 85% that represents decent law enforcement officers, who are not angels nor demons, to follow the moral, legal and ethical road, just remove negative incentives.  The situation will quickly become quite manageable.  You'd see an end to a large number of highly unamerican but legal activity if all revenue from all tickets, fines and confiscated goods went to anything not related to law enforcement.  Just assign those funds to some political sacred cow so it can never be touched.  Law enforcement should NEVER be placed in the morally and ethically precarious position that their behavior defines their funding.  Only a saint, which admittedly do exist, would pass up a chance to legally take from others when it could mean the difference between his own paycheck (or a close friend's) or the unemployment line.  Too many departments are forced into this position.  That's not fair to anyone involved.  It is not fair to the officers, it is not fair to the non law enforcement community and it is not fair to our legal system. 

I honestly don't think this would be too hard of a pitch to make to Congresscritters.  "New revenue streams for your sacred pork!"


However, in the mean time, it would behoove a person to take responsible steps to prevent asset seizure.  No good comes from tempting those that can legally steal from you.  Always be careful with valuable property and be aware that you are not just trying to keep it out of the hands of criminals.  Horseradish brings up a good point.  Don't rely entirely on traditional physical security.  Having a $300 state of the art unpickable Abloy lock protecting your guns, cash or oil paintings doesn't help you much when you are compelled to hand over your keys.  Think "rubber hose cryptography techniques".  While even more difficult than traditional physical security means, it is entirely possible to initiate some safeguards against coercion, even of the quasi-legal kind.  Even the police cannot confiscate what they do not know exists. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

BReilley

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2010, 03:18:08 PM »
If you want the 85% that represents decent law enforcement officers, who are not angels nor demons, to follow the moral, legal and ethical road, just remove negative incentives.  The situation will quickly become quite manageable.  You'd see an end to a large number of highly unamerican but legal activity if all revenue from all tickets, fines and confiscated goods went to anything not related to law enforcement.  Just assign those funds to some political sacred cow so it can never be touched.  Law enforcement should NEVER be placed in the morally and ethically precarious position that their behavior defines their funding.  Only a saint, which admittedly do exist, would pass up a chance to legally take from others when it could mean the difference between his own paycheck (or a close friend's) or the unemployment line.  Too many departments are forced into this position.  That's not fair to anyone involved.  It is not fair to the officers, it is not fair to the non law enforcement community and it is not fair to our legal system.

Very well said.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2010, 03:31:27 PM »
did anyone ever figure out what the move to his cell phone was about? i thought i was gonna see video of him getting shot then
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MechAg94

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2010, 05:07:21 PM »
I saw this video on another site a few weeks ago.  My first thought was that there was a report of "shots fired" out in a rural area.  Why in the hell would the local cops run out there like there was some sort of hostage situation going on?  Were they looking for a chance to go after this guy?  I think down here, if someone out in the county called in a "shots fired" complaint the only thing that might get their attention is if the shots were fired at them.

That said, over on TexasCHLforum, there was a rather long thread of a guy who set up a berm on his own land and his adventures with a neighbor who kept calling the cops and complaining about one things or another.  He did get it resolved and the neighbor shut up.  He didn't get treated anything like this though.
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freakazoid

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2010, 12:41:49 AM »
Quote
Seems like something with a combination lock is in order - can't take the keys if there are no keys...

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mellestad

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2010, 07:59:48 PM »
Sure looks bad.  I wish they had video/audio without so much commentary and editing though.

Too bad the car camera wasn't pointed at the guy in the beginning though, since that would cover the "brandishing at a peace officer" charge.  I'd be interested to hear details about the machine gun charge too, since the dude claims he was plinking with a .22.

I have to say though, he's lucky he didn't get shot when he went for his phone, the video seems to show he was not as clear about what he was doing as he makes it sound in the interview, I didn't hear him say much, he just reached for a pocket while he was facing a screaming cop with a gun pointed at him, yikes!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: 4th Amendment?? We dont need no stinking 4th Amendment.
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2010, 02:18:12 PM »
i grew up in pg county md  you woulda been shot twice for that.  i personally woulda put my gun down before walking towards em too. but ymmv and i'm past my best revolutionary years
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I