1917

[Ben]

This looks pretty good. I'd like to see more modern movies about WW1.

https://youtu.be/UcmZN0Mbl04

[Angel Eyes]

It definitely shows promise. 

I noticed similarities to Dunkirk in terms of style

[TommyGunn]

I just watched an old Howard Hughes' made movie, HELL'S ANGELS, produced and directed by Howard Hughes (and a few others ... production problems++++) made in 1930.  It's a strange film .... mostly B&W,  some tinted, and maybe 8 minutes of color.   Inspired by William Wellman's  1927 film WINGS, the first Academy Award winner, HELL'S ANGELS  featured some great dogfights between WW1 aircraft,  and what can only be described as a bizarre, spooky air raid on London by a German zeppelin which did not end well for the dastardly dirigible.  Part of its crew tried to save the thing by plummeting to their deaths ..... I sort of wonder if the Krauts had fallschirms in 1917 ....

Check it out.   It's on DVD.

[WLJ]

 Part of its crew tried to save the thing by plummeting to their deaths ..... I sort of wonder if the Krauts had fallschirms in 1917 ....

That was usually because they had a choice between a burning death or a falling death. Many chose the falling death. Sucks either way but I guess one sucked less than the other.

[TommyGunn]

That was usually because they had a choice between a burning death or a falling death. Many chose the falling death. Sucks either way but I guess one sucked less than the other.

Ok .... but the zeppelin wasn't on fire when those guys jumped ....that came later ---- and boy did it come!

[WLJ]

Ok .... but the zeppelin wasn't on fire when those guys jumped ....that came later ---- and boy did it come!

Okay, been decades since I've seen it.

[WLJ]

At 14:49 is the part you're taking about.
May need to rewatch this some day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTAuT6ZMZXM

[Ben]

Thanks- just added Hell's Angels to my Netflix queue. I've never seen it.

I saw some comment on Netflix that the Decrappio movie "The Aviator" (never seen it) is based on this movie?

[WLJ]

Thanks- just added Hell's Angels to my Netflix queue. I've never seen it.

I saw some comment on Netflix that the Decrappio movie "The Aviator" (never seen it) is based on this movie?

The Aviator is about Howard Hughes. HH made Hell's Angels.

IIRC HH filmed much of HAs twice. First time as a silent film then when he realized people were now wanting sound movies he refilmed much of it with sound.

 

[TommyGunn]

..... IIRC HH filmed much of HAs twice. First time as a silent film then when he realized people were now wanting sound movies he refilmed much of it with sound.

Yup.  The aerial scenes didn't need refilming, just the addition of sound effects.   The only use of models (aside from the zeppelin)  was a head on collision between two planes.  Hughes insisted on there being clouds to give the dogfight scenes depth, and while I think he was right,  it caused additional problems to the already problem plagued production.

Most of the refilmed scenes were on the ground, the early part with Jean Harlow .... and others, as the story was set up.

[HankB]

I noticed similarities to Dunkirk in terms of style

So it's something to avoid . . .

[K Frame]

So, Saving Private Ryan in the Great War...



"so it's something to avoid"

Absolutely disagree. I liked Dunkirk very much. Very well done for such an ambitious movie and pretty faithful to Walter Lord's book.

[HankB]

So, Saving Private Ryan in the Great War...



"so it's something to avoid"

Absolutely disagree. I liked Dunkirk very much. Very well done for such an ambitious movie and pretty faithful to Walter Lord's book.

We differ on Dunkirk. Profoundly. Horribly done movie - empty beaches filled with 400,000 nonexistent Brits awaiting evacuation, soldiers lounging in a grounded boat that was an aiming point for Germans taking target practice, a civilian boater who covers for the panicky Brit soldier who murdered his son, an out-of-fuel Spitfire gliding forever . . . all presented in the most boring manner possible. Didn't hold a candle to old Brit war movies like ZULU, The Dam Busters, Sink the Bismarck, The Battle of Britain, or even the documentary series Victory at Sea.

[K Frame]

You're correct we differ on that.

So, you decry the "historical accuracy" of Dunkirk yet you laud Zulu?

How many Lee-Enfield bolt action rifles would it take to get you to change your mind? There should be more than enough for you in Zulu...   

Oh, and Victory at Sea was an American production...

[K Frame]

And regarding gliding Spitfires, interesting information on it.

Essentially, in the right conditions, it was possible...

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/film/2017/08/how-realistic-are-dunkirks-spitfire-flight-scenes


But shooting down the Stuka after a hard turn?

Yeah... no.

[HankB]

You're correct we differ on that.

So, you decry the "historical accuracy" of Dunkirk yet you laud Zulu?

How many Lee-Enfield bolt action rifles would it take to get you to change your mind? There should be more than enough for you in Zulu...   

Oh, and Victory at Sea was an American production...

Stand corrected on Victory at Sea not being British (How'd I make that slip? ) But it was still better than Dunkirk.

I reread my post, and couldn't find the term "historical accuracy" - it MUST be there because you put it in quotes, right? 

And the bolt action rifles in ZULU weren't quite as anachronistic as the wristwatches some of the Zulus were wearing - their payment for their roles in the movie. But ZULU was still a damn sight more entertaining than Dunkirk.

[K Frame]

"But ZULU was still a damn sight more entertaining than Dunkirk."

You were just watching it for the nekkid native wimminz at the beginning and you know it, you pervo! 



"I reread my post, and couldn't find the term "historical accuracy""

Your commentary about the gliding Spitfire seemed to me to be a comment on historical accuracy, as in "you can't glide a Spit!", which I know not to be the case. Of the aircraft in operation at that time, the Spit had probably the best glide characteristics of them all.

Not saying much, really, but that large elliptical wing provided lift that nothing else at the time had.

[BlueStarLizzard]

Well... Back to the original topic...

That looks great and I agree about wanting more movies/TV about the Great War. Personally, I think it's more important in terms of historical magnitude that WWII and I think the period and the impact of the war, both on the battlegrounds and for those at home, provides a depth of possible drama that has been neglected.

[Ben]

Well... Back to the original topic...

That looks great and I agree about wanting more movies/TV about the Great War. Personally, I think it's more important in terms of historical magnitude that WWII and I think the period and the impact of the war, both on the battlegrounds and for those at home, provides a depth of possible drama that has been neglected.

The archive footage from "They Shall Not Grow Old" was really powerful (to me) in portraying some of the hell WW1 soldiers (on both sides) went through. Kinda made footage I've seen, and thought was rough going, from WW2, look like a picnic.

[WLJ]

The archive footage from "They Shall Not Grow Old" was really powerful (to me) in portraying some of the hell WW1 soldiers (on both sides) went through. Kinda made footage I've seen, and thought was rough going, from WW2, look like a picnic.

WW-I didn't have WW-II's wholesale mass exterminations and whole cities fire bombed flat.  
WW-I 8-10 million or so dead.
WW-II 60 million
If that's a picnic count me out. In the end both F sucked.

Note: numbers are disputed for both

[Northwoods]

Your commentary about the gliding Spitfire seemed to me to be a comment on historical accuracy, as in "you can't glide a Spit!", which I know not to be the case. Of the aircraft in operation at that time, the Spit had probably the best glide characteristics of them all.

Not saying much, really, but that large elliptical wing provided lift that nothing else at the time had.

Lift to drag ratio.  Not just lift.  Plenty of planes (eg B-17, B-29, P-38 just to name a few) that produced more lift.  But the elliptical shape of the wing produced less drag than other shapes for the given amount of lift.

[BlueStarLizzard]

WW-I didn't have WW-II's wholesale mass exterminations and whole cities fire bombed flat.  
WW-I 8-10 million or so dead.
WW-II 60 million
If that's a picnic count me out.

Note: numbers are disputed for both

Wouldn't have WWII without WWI to begin with.

WWI was a war and warfare the likes of which had never been seen before. Historical impact isn't about the numbers. It's about the affect on the world. WWI was the war that began the 20th century and all that follows. It was the radical change from the grand calvery charges and neat lines of infantry that dominated war since the invention of the firearm to what we know today. That kind of change in warfare hadn't been seen *since* the firearm was brought reliably into the battlefields.

In terms of magnitude, yes, WWII was bigger, but in terms of relevance to history, I maintain that WWI was more significant.   

[WLJ]

Wouldn't have WWII without WWI to begin with.

WWI was a war and warfare the likes of which had never been seen before. Historical impact isn't about the numbers. It's about the affect on the world. WWI was the war that began the 20th century and all that follows. It was the radical change from the grand calvery charges and neat lines of infantry that dominated war since the invention of the firearm to what we know today. That kind of change in warfare hadn't been seen *since* the firearm was brought reliably into the battlefields.

In terms of magnitude, yes, WWII was bigger, but in terms of relevance to history, I maintain that WWI was more significant.  

My post was in regards to the picnic comment.

In many ways I consider WW-II as being The Great War Part II: Unfinished Business

[Ben]

My post was in regards to the picnic comment.

To be clear I didn't say WW2 was actually a picnic, as in an easy war. Quite the opposite in fact, to make my point that the trench warfare of WW1 was absolutely horrendous. I was also specifically talking to battle conditions, not overall military and civilian deaths.

[K Frame]

Lift to drag ratio.  Not just lift.  Plenty of planes (eg B-17, B-29, P-38 just to name a few) that produced more lift.  But the elliptical shape of the wing produced less drag than other shapes for the given amount of lift.

Drag?

How DARE you question the Spitfire's life choices, you cisnormal privileged raciofascist!