Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: freakazoid on January 26, 2014, 02:27:12 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGH7cDFw7c&feature=youtu.be
Looks impressive.
Also, what in the world is that carbine? at 2:30?
Also, love the Richard Machowicz/Don LaFontaine narrator.
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If by impressive you mean "a really stupid gimmick" then sure. ;)
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I saw this on FB and posted it to Tam's page as she always interested in the latest and greatest in "high-speed" training "techniques" along with the newest exploding pants operator ammunition.
As an aside, other then poor weight retention, the un-known quality of the gelatin used, and the markeing hype, there's the preospect of sitting on the witness stand and having Mr. Tile-crawler questioning you regarding your choice of defensive ammo, then playing that youtube clip to jury. "RIP ammo ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Freakazoid wasn't looking to protect himself, he was out for blood and by using RIP ammo, he didn't want to just stop the threat. Oh no, he was looking kill whoever crossed his path."
Yeah, they need more exploding pants in their marketing materials. That really hooks the true operators and shows that stuff can only be used those professional enough to handle it. ;/ ;/ ;/ ;/
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Yeah no.
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Company founded by ex-employees of Extreme Shock?
As an aside, other then poor weight retention, the un-known quality of the gelatin used, and the markeing hype, there's the preospect of sitting on the witness stand and having Mr. Tile-crawler questioning you regarding your choice of defensive ammo,
Vs. just buying the hollow point stuff from Walmart.
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Individually CNC-machined projectiles are no doubt pricey . . . how much would it cost to fire 100 - 200 through your chosen self-defense firearm to establish reliability? And . . . I have reservations about the QC of small "boutique" brands of ammo.
The effects of full-auto fire on the gelatine blocks were not particularly impressive.
As for tile-crawlers . . . at least Glaser called their load the "SAFETY slug." (And saying you used a particular load "Because it was on sale at Wal Mart" would defuse allegations of your use of "exotic, super deadly" ammo.)
I can see justification for something like this in CA, since they seem determined to outlaw lead in bullets. But elsewhere?
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Oh its impressive alright...impressive at separating idiots from their money.
I cannot wait to be accosted at the gun counter by the first window licking retard who has a hi point with the magazine half full of this bullshit ammunition (because that's all said retard could afford) going on about how it's the most awesome ammunition in the world.
This is gimmicky bullshit marketed to the Taurus Judge and pistol bayonet crowd. I cannot wait to hear at the gun counter and gun forums about how awesome this bullshit ammunition is.
It's already spreading like a *expletive deleted*ing disease.
It's frangible ammunition (which SUCKS against people) dressed up all fancy
Personally I'll stick with Speer Gold Dots. Widely available, cost effective, very reliable, effective ammunition that is well known and does not rely on smoke and mirrors and bullshitium to get the job done.
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Oh its impressive alright...impressive at separating idiots from their money.
I cannot wait to be accosted at the gun counter by the first window licking retard who has a hi point with the magazine half full of this bullshit ammunition (because that's all said retard could afford) going on about how it's the most awesome ammunition in the world.
This is gimmicky bullshit marketed to the Taurus Judge and pistol bayonet crowd. I cannot wait to hear at the gun counter and gun forums about how awesome this bullshit ammunition is.
It's already spreading like a *expletive deleted* disease.
It's frangible ammunition (which SUCKS against people) dressed up all fancy
Personally I'll stick with Speer Gold Dots. Widely available, cost effective, very reliable, effective ammunition that is well known and does not rely on smoke and mirrors and bullshitium to get the job done.
Do we have an official APS curmudgeon? =D
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He is kind of cranky, isn't he?
I'm still working on my case of those evil Black Talons I bought all those years ago.
People ask me what they are, and I just say Winchester Ranger SXT. ;)
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Yawn. Wake me up when there's a version that's fissionable.
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Yawn. Wake me up when there's a version that's fissionable.
Or made from depleted uranium.
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It's frangible ammunition (which SUCKS against people) dressed up all fancy
I don't think it would be considered frangible ammunition. It seems more like a hollow point where instead of the sides curling back they separate into barbs creating their own wound channel.
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He is kind of cranky, isn't he?
I'm still working on my case of those evil Black Talons I bought all those years ago.
People ask me what they are, and I just say Winchester Ranger SXT. ;)
I still have a few boxes of those myself. Kind of wish I would have bought a case like you did. I could probably sell them today for 50% over what I paid. :laugh:
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Do we have an official APS curmudgeon? =D
I thought vaskidmark and I were vieing for that title.
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Holy Dooshie, Batman! :lol:
"The last round you'll ever need." Hmm. Nothing quite like an underweight 96gr 9mm round that sheds half its momentum and mass immediately on impact. ;/
Might as well shoot the attacker with #7 bird shot from a shotgun.
I strongly suspect they watered down their gelatin for these vids. I don't think a ~50gr 9mm half-projectile is going to go through 18-24" of properly calibrated gelatin, especially after using impact force to calve off a dozen splinters.
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Holy Dooshie, Batman! :lol:
"The last round you'll ever need." Hmm. Nothing quite like an underweight 96gr 9mm round that sheds half its momentum and mass immediately on impact. ;/
Might as well shoot the attacker with #7 bird shot from a shotgun.
I strongly suspect they watered down their gelatin for these vids. I don't think a ~50gr 9mm half-projectile is going to go through 18-24" of properly calibrated gelatin, especially after using impact force to calve off a dozen splinters.
This pretty much sums up my initial thoughts on the video. Especially the gelatin; I don't think I've ever seen completely clear ballistic gelatin before, and that makes me think it wasn't calibrated properly.
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It's not ballistic gelatin.
It's Perma-Gel.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/315783/perma-gel-ballistic-gel-mix
Different medium, and different results.
Here's the discussion:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11100-quot-R-I-P-quot-Radically-Invasive-Projectile-quot
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Here's the discussion:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?11100-quot-R-I-P-quot-Radically-Invasive-Projectile-quot
I think it's clear that most people will miss the point of this round. It's the most efficient round for G18 33 round mag dumps. It turns 33 rounds into 198 birdshot sized fragments plus 33 FMJ rounds that you can get on target within seconds. Run one in each hand and you're practically invincible.
Is there a "mall ninja" emoticon?
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Is there a "mall ninja" emoticon?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allthingsninja.com%2Fforums%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2Fninjastar.gif&hash=5fbb24745559e5e9efda659cf9b1f35333b42e43)
or
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allthingsninja.com%2Fforums%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2Fninjastar.gif&hash=5fbb24745559e5e9efda659cf9b1f35333b42e43)
or
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Needs to be fatter, with moar gunz. And a Segway.
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Needs to be fatter, with moar gunz. And a Segway.
Well I can't just pull that out of my ass now
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He is kind of cranky, isn't he?
I'm still working on my case of those evil Black Talons I bought all those years ago.
People ask me what they are, and I just say Winchester Ranger SXT. ;)
I personally think think Boom has won it naturally, hands down!
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I personally think think Boom has won it naturally, hands down!
I don't think he meets the "greybeard" requirement, though. Until he gets one of those he's just a misanthrope. >:D
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I don't think he meets the "greybeard" requirement, though. Until he gets one of those he's just a misanthrope. >:D
If he keeps working at that park, he'll have grey hair within the year...
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I don't think it would be considered frangible ammunition. It seems more like a hollow point where instead of the sides curling back they separate into barbs creating their own wound channel.
You have awoken the APS Curmudgeon, and he is now awake.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/frangible This stuff breaks - intentionally, too.
It has a hollow point, which would be another discriptor of certain characteristics of the item.
It's made of copper (but not pure copper), for another descriptor.
So, most appropriately it should be described (ignoring a host of other descriptors of technical minutiae) as a 9 mm frangible hollow point copper alloy projectile.
Or a festering pile of brain-rotting hyperbole in search of someone already disenchanted with the performance of the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cqkT77LOgY bolo bullet.
stay safe.
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Or a festering pile of brain-rotting hyperbole in search of someone already disenchanted with the performance of the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cqkT77LOgY bolo bullet.
You know, you bring up a good point...but I would say that the people enamored with this G2 Rip probably love the bolo bullet too...we will probably see dumbasses staggering the G2 Rip and the bolo rounds in their mags.
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I saw someone on FB slagging this off, and I thought they must have been faking the claimed 16" of penetration. Good to see that it wasn't in actual ballistic gel, that makes more sense.
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I saw someone on FB slagging this off, and I thought they must have been faking the claimed 16" of penetration. Good to see that it wasn't in actual ballistic gel, that makes more sense.
Dr. Gary K. Roberts is going to test this stuff in actual ballistic gel under standard testing protocols.
Even in their chosen medium, however, it fails miserably. A small fragment exhibits penetration like they claim, but most of the projectile comes apart within the first 5 inches. I personally expect it to perform worse in real gel, but we shall see.
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If anyone has seen the movie Elysium, the one saving grace of the movie was he had a rifle with this futuristic air bursting ammo that was really cool. Sort of like proximity detonators on artillery. The ammo burst a few feet in front of the target and shredded it with shrapnel. Very cool.
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Yawn. Wake me up when there's a version that's fissionable.
Wakey, wakey . . . ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XX2lIT1tQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XX2lIT1tQ)
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If anyone has seen the movie Elysium, the one saving grace of the movie was he had a rifle with this futuristic air bursting ammo that was really cool. Sort of like proximity detonators on artillery. The ammo burst a few feet in front of the target and shredded it with shrapnel. Very cool.
Would rifle ammo be able to generate significant fragmentation? There just isn't much metal in any individual round even before packing in explosive and a detonation mechanism.
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Wakey, wakey . . . ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XX2lIT1tQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XX2lIT1tQ)
I see the website at the beginning is named for one of our members, who just so happens to know a thing or two about nuclear things.
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Would rifle ammo be able to generate significant fragmentation? There just isn't much metal in any individual round even before packing in explosive and a detonation mechanism.
Probably not, but it looked cool in the movie.
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Would rifle ammo be able to generate significant fragmentation? There just isn't much metal in any individual round even before packing in explosive and a detonation mechanism.
No. Even the 20 and 25mm size rounds the army was playing around with as part of the OICW program Were too small to be truly effective.
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Even in their chosen medium, however, it fails miserably. A small fragment exhibits penetration like they claim, but most of the projectile comes apart within the first 5 inches. I personally expect it to perform worse in real gel, but we shall see.
It is designed to come apart.
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It is designed to come apart.
Then it's designed to fail. It isnt penetrating deep enough to do the deed.
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At 5 inches, if I was to get shot in the gut/chest then it doesn't exactly have much farther to go to come out my backside. Don't know how much more penetration you need after that.
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At 5 inches, if I was to get shot in the gut/chest then it doesn't exactly have much farther to go to come out my backside. Don't know how much more penetration you need after that.
That gel used in the video does not equate to human flesh and bone.
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At 5 inches, if I was to get shot in the gut/chest then it doesn't exactly have much farther to go to come out my backside. Don't know how much more penetration you need after that.
Because 5" of their bullshit gel is nothing compared to a real body
This stuff is going to have a damn hard time of punching through a meatbag intent on killing you.
Looks impressive to the uninitiated in their "gel shot" and videos, it's going to be sorely lacking in real world terminal performance.
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At 5 inches, if I was to get shot in the gut/chest then it doesn't exactly have much farther to go to come out my backside. Don't know how much more penetration you need after that.
Penetration in gel, particularly BS gel, doesn't translate inch for inch in actual flesh and bone.
Using standard testing, minimum desirable penetration is iirc either 12 or 13 inches. 5 inches isn't squat for practical defensive purposes.
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And remember the Miami shootout. Sometimes the bullet hits an outstretched arm first, and needs to be able to punch through that, then on through layers of fat muscle and bone, then through the vital organs.
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And remember the Miami shootout. Sometimes the bullet hits an outstretched arm first, and needs to be able to punch through that, then on through layers of fat muscle and bone, then through the vital organs.
^^ This.
Attackers tend to have appendages that are outstretched towards you.
At 5 inches, if I was to get shot in the gut/chest then it doesn't exactly have much farther to go to come out my backside. Don't know how much more penetration you need after that.
Gut shots don't STOP someone. They'll kill him a few hours or days later after he's used that sledgehammer to maul your face into strawberry jam.
All this stuff just keeps reminding me why I favor heavy-for-caliber loads. I prefer 127gr hollowpoints in my 9mm, 230gr hollowpoints in my .45, and 240gr semiwadcutters in my .44 (if I went anywhere with bigger critters than AZ has I would step up to 270's or 300's).
Your magic bullet "may" have a one-shot-stop potential, maybe. But I don't shoot once. There's three bullets out in less than a second, on COM, before I have any chance to observe reaction of the threat to my response. They're not in the same hole, but they're all within about 3" of each other and at least 9 ring quality, meaning they're gonna hit vitals if they aren't deflected by an outstretched humerus or hard object... At 97% likelihood of 1 shot stopping power of a typical quality hollowpoint and 3 consecutive hits, that culminates to:
97% on shot 1.
99.91% on shot 2.
99.9983% on shot 3.
Frangible BS that maims an outstretched arm rather than decimating rib bones, lungs and heart... puts your safety at risk.
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http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/01/dhs-ammo-purchase/
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So when are they going to put it out in .45LC so I can put some in mah Judge?!?!?!? :laugh:
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Did anyone mention this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8XcVc_0ykU
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So when are they going to put it out in .45LC so I can put some in mah Judge?!?!?!? :laugh:
I'm not interested until George Zimmerman endorses it.
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Yep that G2Rip sho is powerful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGFPRpWZ3w&feature=youtu.be
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Yep that G2Rip sho is powerful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGFPRpWZ3w&feature=youtu.be
Here's his write-up of the same test.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/daniel-zimmerman/g2-researchs-rip-ammo-ballistic-testing-phase-one/#more-293429
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They can claim that "RIP" is an acronym for "Radically Invasive Projectile," but we all know that the name was chosen because the acronym "RIP" has been around for a very long time, with a different meaning. This round is marketed squarely at the people who think it's a good idea to put Punisher grips on their self defense carry gun, and have bumper stickers that read, "Protected by Smith & Wesson."
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGH7cDFw7c&feature=youtu.be
Looks impressive.
Also, what in the world is that carbine? at 2:30?
Also, love the Richard Machowicz/Don LaFontaine narrator.
That carbine is the TNW Aero Survival Rifle http://tnwfirearms.com/complete-guns/asr-aero-survival-rifle.html
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Was talking to Dad about this (he caught the youtube vid and was distinctly underwhelmed)
I read him the thread and the truthaboutguns reveiw. He got a few chuckles on that.
Anyway, he had his own little conversational drift, he wanted to know if anyone remebered the BAT round? (he thinks it stood for "blitz action trama" or "some crap like that")
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Perhaps he was referring to an earlier exercise in ballistic BS, the Black Rhino round? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-12-28/news/9412280049_1_black-rhino-signature-products-corp-guns-last-year
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Perhaps he was referring to an earlier exercise in ballistic BS, the Black Rhino round? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-12-28/news/9412280049_1_black-rhino-signature-products-corp-guns-last-year
No. Hell, even I vaguely remember the hoopala over that crap.
I can't remember if he said the BAT stuff was from the 70's or the 80's. He did say he thought it was european.
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Blitz Aktion Trauma.
All the stupid of "expanding FMJ" with 50% more ejecting nose cone.
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I had to comment on this one on youtube:
"The last round you'll ever need"
Ironically enough, the above statement would be tragically true if you ever needed to use this ammo in a life or death situation. I'll stick with a product where a few inches of ballistic geletin does not make an adequate backstop.
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I remember the Geco BAT and even fired some off. At the time, it was primarily marketed as having a large JHP cavity but still feeding reliably through pistols by virtue of the nose cap giving it a round nose profile. I am trying to remember if the bullet itself was machined out of solid copper. I have not seen a round in decades.
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On the topic of exotic ammo . . .
MANY years ago, when I was still living in the Chicago area, I remember "Mer-Core" bullets being available locally as reloading components. IIRC, they were essentially ordinary jackets filled with mercury, and sealed up with a dab of some kind of black goo. If Glaser safety slugs were a good thing - having all those little pellets go their separate ways after impact - I guess someone figured out that molten metal was even better.
Never saw them nationally, so I'm guessing they were made locally and only carried in one particular gun shop . . . and only for a very short time at that.
Then there were "Exploder" bullets, with a primer in the nose. Ran into a guy at the range who was making his own "Super Exploder" bullets - said he was disassembling many primers (he was vague about what "many" meant) and was scraping the priming compound into a drilled-out JHP to increase the amount of explosive, and then adding a fresh primer on top of the tamped-down mixture. :facepalm:
I politely declined his generous offer of a few loaded rounds so I could "test" them . . . and found a reason to leave the range early.
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I had to comment on this one on youtube:
"The last round you'll ever need"
Ironically enough, the above statement would be tragically true if you ever needed to use this ammo in a life or death situation. I'll stick with a product where a few inches of ballistic geletin does not make an adequate backstop.
Butbutbut it kills fruit and party favors!
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On the topic of exotic ammo . . .
MANY years ago, when I was still living in the Chicago area, I remember "Mer-Core" bullets being available locally as reloading components. IIRC, they were essentially ordinary jackets filled with mercury, and sealed up with a dab of some kind of black goo. If Glaser safety slugs were a good thing - having all those little pellets go their separate ways after impact - I guess someone figured out that molten metal was even better.
Never saw them nationally, so I'm guessing they were made locally and only carried in one particular gun shop . . . and only for a very short time at that.
I forget, is it elemental mercury that will poison you dead within months from a single exposure, or some mercury compound?
Then there were "Exploder" bullets, with a primer in the nose. Ran into a guy at the range who was making his own "Super Exploder" bullets - said he was disassembling many primers (he was vague about what "many" meant) and was scraping the priming compound into a drilled-out JHP to increase the amount of explosive, and then adding a fresh primer on top of the tamped-down mixture. :facepalm:
I politely declined his generous offer of a few loaded rounds so I could "test" them . . . and found a reason to leave the range early.
Don't forget the special .22 rounds John Hinkley shot Ronaldus Magnus with, out of a cheap RG22.
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I forget, is it elemental mercury that will poison you dead within months from a single exposure, or some mercury compound?
Elemental mercury isn't that toxic, though its not good stuff to get inside your body for sure. Organometallic mercury (Methyl mercury for example) is horribly toxic, and will kill you very dead in very short order.
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Elemental mercury isn't that toxic, though its not good stuff to get inside your body for sure. Organometallic mercury (Methyl mercury for example) is horribly toxic, and will kill you very dead in very short order.
brimic,
What would you use organometallic mercury for?
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brimic,
What would you use organometallic mercury for?
I've never used it myself, byproducts of a reaction that I ran a decade or so ago contained all kinds of mercury nasties- we were refluxing a silane (Trimethylsilane IIRC) with mercury through a large glass tube surrounded by UV lamps for a few weeks on end to produce a Disilane. The back door of the lab was always left open to the outdoors for ventilation, an it seemed like the UV radiation attracted mosquitoes and possibly the mercury/organomercury vapors killed them. Every morning we'd have to sweep the floors and lab bench which was carpeted with dead mosquitoes.