Author Topic: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us  (Read 13247 times)

Sergeant Bob

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2008, 11:08:12 AM »
So, Central Services are going to set your thermostat. Do you have to call them for repairs or can you have a renegade repairman such as Harry Buttle er Tuttle come out and repair it?
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

charby

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2008, 11:09:51 AM »
The world needs guys selling illegal t'stats out of the trunks of their cars.

I want to be that guy! I'm thinking a '66 Coupe Deville would have a nice large trunk.



Such a gas guzzler is illegal in Kalifornistan...right?


If you're going to do that, upgrade to a '73 Eldo with the 500 cub motor.  It's a big, fat "Up Yours", only with leather seats and power steering.

Brad

Go all out and rig up a Dennis Leary ride ala the "I'm An A-hole" song.

And burn leaded gas in it also.

Iowa- 88% more livable that the rest of the US

Uranus is a gas giant.

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Declaration Day

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2008, 12:14:49 PM »
Go all out and rig up a Dennis Leary ride ala the "I'm An A-hole" song.

From Denis Leary's "I'm an A**hole":

"You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac El Dorado convertible, hot pink with whaleskin hub caps and all leather cow interior and big brown baby seal eyes for headlights, yeah! And I'm gonna drive around in that baby at 115mph getting one mile per gallon, sucking down quarter pounder cheese burgers from McDonald's in the old-fashioned non-biodegradable styrofoam containers......."

 grin

Harold Tuttle

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2008, 01:06:06 PM »

Listen, this old system of yours could be on fire
and I couldn't even turn on the kitchen tap without filling out a 27b/6...

Bloody paperwork.
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He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

Finch

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2008, 02:13:01 PM »
Man, I could see some hackers having a lot of fun with something like this.
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thebaldguy

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2008, 03:26:11 PM »
One of my co-workers lives in an apartment where the landlord controls the heat; he's in a corner unit so he as two walls to the outside. His place is chilly; the landlord claims the heat is set at 68.

Marnoot

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2008, 04:39:01 PM »
Quote
Each PCT will be fitted with a non-removable  FM receiver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

Scout26

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2008, 05:13:23 PM »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2008, 05:15:52 PM »

Listen, this old system of yours could be on fire
and I couldn't even turn on the kitchen tap without filling out a 27b/6...

Bloody paperwork.


I thought everyone here would understand the reference. Great movie.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Fjolnirsson

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2008, 06:01:32 PM »
Quote
I thought everyone here would understand the reference. Great movie.

Bob, apparently you and I are the only two here who saw that movie....
Hi.

Sergeant Bob

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2008, 07:03:12 PM »
Quote
I thought everyone here would understand the reference. Great movie.

Bob, apparently you and I are the only two here who saw that movie....

Yeah, us and Harold Buttle err, Tuttle! cool
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

Sawdust

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2008, 05:40:47 AM »

Listen, this old system of yours could be on fire
and I couldn't even turn on the kitchen tap without filling out a 27b/6...

Bloody paperwork.


I thought everyone here would understand the reference. Great movie.

Had to Google the quote. "Brazil", eh? Never heard of it. What's it about?

Sawdust
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2008, 05:45:53 AM »
Quote
Had to Google the quote. "Brazil", eh? Never heard of it. What's it about?

Sawdust

Think 1984, with a Monty Python twist.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

HankB

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2008, 05:57:47 AM »
One of my co-workers lives in an apartment where the landlord controls the heat; he's in a corner unit so he as two walls to the outside. His place is chilly; the landlord claims the heat is set at 68.
Cousins rented a place like that for a while - there was a locked "cage" over the thermostat. A package of frozen hot dogs placed on top of the cage kicked up the heat.

When I was in grad school, my apartment was downright COLD . . . but since utilities were paid, I found that turning all four burners on my stove (electric!) and using a small fan to circulate the heat worked wonders . . .  grin
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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2008, 06:29:49 AM »
I saw Brazil,the first time,the same night I saw Bladerunner.

It was a truly strange evening.

I liked it.

Manedwolf

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2008, 06:42:41 AM »
I saw Brazil,the first time,the same night I saw Bladerunner.

It was a truly strange evening.

I liked it.

For anyone who likes those films, look for a subtitled film called "Un D?a Perfecto" "On a Perfect Day" from 1998. It's stunningly good, total dystopia. Very biting, dark humor, too, especially when a guy is not allowed out of his flat for his welfare/government credit being maxed out, tries to start a fire to be let out, and is instead just charged against his already-maxed government credit for the fire damage...and then subsequently for every item he throws, the computer keeping track of it all in real time.  grin

The visuals are pretty striking, too, from the underground cities to the Job Lottery center to the stark apartment blocks.

Quote
A glimpse into Europe's future. On 37 Juliembre 2056, one of Europe's 400,000,000 unemployed, a man named Gabe, wins the Grand Lottery: he'll have a job. He phones Susanna, his girlfriend who has recently tried to break things off, and tells her he has a surprise for her. She agrees to meet him in 30 minutes. Then, a perfect day turns sour: Gabe is behind on his rent and is maxed out on his universal credit card, the computer won't let him exit his flat. He phones emergency services, and Filipe, a sixth generation humanoid, is unsympathetic. Will Gabe miss out completely on his good luck? Susanna comes to his door: perhaps she will rescue him and restore the day to perfection.

RocketMan

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2008, 10:05:15 AM »
Well, in that case, the next thing they'll have to do is put a camera in everybody's house to watch and make sure nobody tampers with the T'stat, and then they'd have to put a camera in to watch and make sure nobody tampers with the first camera, and then...

They'll get it eventually.  rolleyes

I'm wondering when the warrantless entries will start?  Of course, it's only to make sure you have one of the thermostats installed, and if you do, to ensure you have not been tampering with it.
It will be for your own good, you know...

(I'm going through a cynical phase this week.)
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

280plus

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2008, 01:44:10 PM »
It's for the children...    cheesy
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Moondoggie

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2008, 03:14:40 PM »
'Bout dammed time!!!!!

Now you might just be getting a taste of what truckers have to put up with thanks to "anti-idling laws".  Can't have those nasty ole trucks spewing pollutants while some scumbag trucker is tyring to get a decent night's sleep in his sleeper berth.  Most states have draconian laws with up to $1,500 dollar fines for idling more than 5 minutes out of every hour!!!!!

If it's -10* outside, how are you supposed to live inside the sleeper of your 18 wheeler if you can only idle the engine 5 minutes every hour?Huh?  5 minutes isn't enough time to get the engine temp up enough to put out any heat for several hundred cubic feet of living space. And yes, several of the commie gov'ts (particularly in the NE) enforce this strictly.  NY state and particularly NYC are the most agregious examples of this bull schiest.  Try idling near Hunt's Point in NYC while you're delivering fresh produce to the good people of NYC and find out what jerks the cops thereabouts are.  Can you spell Cha-ching!!!!!???

OK, my second glass of Beaujolais is hitting me pretty hard just now......(you have no idea how many typo's I had to go back and fix)

Rant OFF!!!
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280plus

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2008, 03:23:24 PM »
More...

California wants to control home thermostats
By Felicity Barringer Published: January 11, 2008
 
 
SAN FRANCISCO: The conceit in the 1960s show "The Outer Limits" was that outside forces had taken control of your television set.
 
Next year in California, state regulators are likely to have the emergency power to control individual thermostats, sending temperatures up or down through a radio-controlled device that will be required in new or substantially modified houses and buildings to manage electricity shortages.
 
The proposed rules are contained in a document circulated by the California Energy Commission, which for more than three decades has set state energy efficiency standards for home appliances, like water heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators.
 
The changes would allow utilities to adjust customers' preset temperatures when the price of electricity is soaring. Customers could override the utilities' suggested temperatures. But in emergencies, the utilities could override customers' wishes.
 
Final approval is expected next month.
 
Today in Americas
This year, Clinton is off the stage and on the streets in NevadaRepublican candidates spar in South Carolina debateHow did pollsters and the media get New Hampshire wrong?"You realize there are times - very rarely, once every few years - when you would be subject to a rotating outage and everything would crash including your computer and traffic lights, and you don't want to do that," said Arthur Rosenfeld, a member of the energy commission.
 
Reducing individual customers' electrical use - if necessary, involuntarily - could avoid that, Rosenfeld said. "If you can control rotating outages by letting everyone in the state share the pain," he said, "there's a lot less pain to go around."
 
While the proposals have received little attention in California, the Internet and talk radio are abuzz with indignation at the idea.
 
The radio-controlled thermostat is not a new technology, though it is constantly being tweaked; the latest iterations were on display this week at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. Pacific Gas and Electric, the major utility in Northern California, already has a pilot program in Stockton that allows customers to choose to have their air-conditioning systems attached to a radio-controlled device to reduce use during periods when electricity rates are at their peak. But the idea that a government would mandate use of these devices and reserve the power to override a building owner's wishes galls some people.
 
"This is an outrage," one Californian said in an e-mail message to Rosenfeld. "We need to build new facilities to handle the growth in this state, not become Big Brother to the citizens of California."
 
The broader stir on the Internet began when Joseph Somsel, a San Jose-based contributor to the publication American Thinker, wrote an article a week ago on the programmable communicating thermostat, or PCT. Somsel went after the proposal with arguments that were by turns populist ("Come the next heat wave, the elites might be comfortably lolling in La Jolla's ocean breezes" while "the Central Valley's poor peons are baking in Bakersfield"), free-market ("PCTs will obscure the price signals to power plant developers") and civil libertarian ("the new PCT requirement certainly seems to violate the 'a man's home is his castle' common-law dictum"). Word of the California proposal hit the outrage button in corners of the Internet, was written about in The North County Times in Southern California, and got a derisive mention on Wednesday on Rush Limbaugh's radio program. The fact that similar radio-controlled technologies have been used on a voluntary basis in irrigation systems on farm fields and golf courses and in limited programs for buildings on Long Island is seldom mentioned in Internet postings that make liberal use of references to George Orwell's dystopian novel "1984" and Big Brother, the omnipresent voice of Orwell's police state. Ralph Cavanagh, an energy expert with the Natural Resources Defense Council, said in an interview that at a time of peak electricity use, "most people given a choice of 2 degrees of temperature setback and 14th-century living would happily embrace this capacity." Somsel, in an interview on Thursday, said he had done further research and was concerned that the radio signal - or the Internet instructions that would be sent, in an emergency, from utilities' central control stations to the broadcasters sending the FM signal - could be hacked into. That is not possible, said Nicole Tam, a spokeswoman for PG&E who works with the pilot program in Stockton. Radio pages "are encrypted and encoded," Tam said
Avoid cliches like the plague!

RocketMan

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2008, 04:09:30 PM »
Quote
The fact that similar radio-controlled technologies have been used on a voluntary basis in irrigation systems on farm fields and golf courses and in limited programs for buildings on Long Island is seldom mentioned in Internet postings that make liberal use of references to George Orwell's dystopian novel "1984" and Big Brother, the omnipresent voice of Orwell's police state.

What part of "voluntary" does this individual not understand?  Voluntary hardly equates to Orwellian.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

Typhoon

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2008, 04:52:33 PM »
UPDATE:  Dead on the vine

http://www.dailynews.com/ci_7992487?source=rss_viewed

Quote
Big Brother' taking the heat over Thermostat plan
By Brandon Lowrey, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 01/17/2008 08:04:20 AM PST


Amid widespread criticism and fear of increasing control over Californians' lives by "Big Brother," a state panel has dropped a plan that would have let utility companies use radio signals to dictate the temperature in residents' homes.

The California Energy Commission, in a bid to cut energy use during peak times or emergencies, had proposed forcing residents to install programmable thermostats that utilities could remotely control.

"What's the next step?" quipped state Assemblyman Rick Keene, one of several politicians who shot down the proposal within days of its inception. "They're going to put cameras in your house because they think they can cut down on domestic violence?"

If "they" had put microphones around the San Fernando Valley, they might have heard some acerbic words from residents who bristled at the thought of invasive technology and governmental policy.

"I think it's pretty stupid," said Justin Sanders, 22, of Canoga Park. "The government controls so much already. Why do they have to control your thermostat?

"If they want to control the weather," he added, "why don't they just control the global warming?"

Officials at the commission's Sacramento office this week said no one would be available to discuss the issue as there has been a flood of calls from reporters since word got out about the proposal last week.

On Wednesday, the commission issued a written statement that the proposal for "smart" thermostats has been officially withdrawn.

"The Energy Commission strongly supports demand-response strategies, and believes that the programmable communicating thermostat offers a valuable tool to dampen peak electricity use," the commission wrote. "Technology can be a powerful tool in managing our energy use. However, it is of utmost importance that consumers make their own energy decisions."

Republican Assemblyman Keene of Chico said the thermostat idea was just another product of what he called California's "nanny government."

He also cited a bill for mandatory pet spaying and neutering that Assemblyman Lloyd Levine introduced over the summer. The Van Nuys Democrat withdrew the measure after it attracted harsh criticism.

Nanny or mediator?

"The term `nanny government' or `nanny state' is thrown around a lot," said Levine, who opposed the thermostat plan. "I don't like that term."

Levine said he favored an educational and incentive-based approach to reducing energy consumption and said the energy commission's plan hadn't been well defined.

But instead of calling the government a "nanny," he prefers to view government as the mediator when individual liberties collide - as "in that whole discussion of smoking in restaurants," Levine said.

"Personally, I have asthma. If I go to a restaurant, (smoking) affects me."

Levine questioned whose rights should prevail in such a situation - those of the smoker, the asthmatic or the business owner who wants to decide whether smoking should be allowed in his restaurant.

In California, the asthmatic wins.

Smoking has been banned in the state's restaurants since 1994 under the first such law in the nation. And the movement is gaining speed: The Calabasas City Council was expected to vote Wednesday night on whether to outlaw smoking in rented apartments.

"California does have the reputation and the nickname of being the `People's Republic of California," said national Libertarian Party spokesman Andrew Davis.

"It's (Gov. Arnold) Schwarzenegger's doing to go green," he said, predicting that will lead to "a lot of government regulation and government limitation of free market, which is something the Libertarian Party stands against."

Outcome questioned

Diane McLean, a 29-year-old from Woodland Hills, said the greater good may have lost out in the thermostat flap.

"The weather around here is so nice, who cares about the thermostat?" she remarked about total individual control.

"Wear a sweater in the winter and go swimming in the summer."

She said that since moderate measures haven't done enough to educate the public to conserve energy, she doesn't blame the state agency for trying to take more drastic action.

"Sometimes," she said, "you have to force people to ask questions."

brandon.lowrey@dailynews.com 818-713-3699

I particularly like this quote:

Quote
"The Energy Commission strongly supports demand-response strategies, and believes that the programmable communicating thermostat offers a valuable tool to dampen peak electricity use," the commission wrote. "Technology can be a powerful tool in managing our energy use. However, it is of utmost importance that consumers make their own energy decisions."

Yeah.  NOW you say that...
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GigaBuist

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2008, 07:38:41 PM »
Man, I could see some hackers having a lot of fun with something like this.

Unlikely.  Manedwolf posted on some ways around it earlier, but those were WAY too complicated for a simpleton like me.

Our family was poor for a number of years.  When we finally got a furnace in the house (probably 1990) the thermostat broke somehow so dad just pulled it off the wall and left the two wires hanging there.  You twist the wires together to turn on the furnace, untwist them to stop it.  Best to do this with your hands dry.  That's all your thermostat does: complete a low voltage DC current.

When I saw this legislation online I went over to my fancy-pants thermostat and pulled off the front cover.  Right there up front I see four wires, two pairs, one for the furnance and one for the AC unit.  All I'd need to do to override it is complete that little loop.  If I was feeling fancy I'd take a wire and put a couple alligator clips on it.  More to my roots would be just jambing some tinfoil in between the terminals.

G_P

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2008, 08:41:26 PM »
Man, I could see some hackers having a lot of fun with something like this.

Unlikely.  Manedwolf posted on some ways around it earlier, but those were WAY too complicated for a simpleton like me.

Our family was poor for a number of years.  When we finally got a furnace in the house (probably 1990) the thermostat broke somehow so dad just pulled it off the wall and left the two wires hanging there.  You twist the wires together to turn on the furnace, untwist them to stop it.  Best to do this with your hands dry.  That's all your thermostat does: complete a low voltage DC current.

When I saw this legislation online I went over to my fancy-pants thermostat and pulled off the front cover.  Right there up front I see four wires, two pairs, one for the furnance and one for the AC unit.  All I'd need to do to override it is complete that little loop.  If I was feeling fancy I'd take a wire and put a couple alligator clips on it.  More to my roots would be just jambing some tinfoil in between the terminals.

And if this law ever does come around again and get passed im sure those thermostats will have tamper resistant screws and tamper evident seals on them and if you break the seal you will be fined......

280plus

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Re: All Your Thermostats Belong to Us
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2008, 02:25:45 AM »
What if you put your frozen peas there? The stupid humans will find a way.  cheesy

And 20 minutes later it will be all over the web...  grin
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