Law enforcement has "hazard list" of addresses consider as "dangerous"

[Grandpa Shooter]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/12/18/20091218tr-hazardlist1219.html

I thought this might offer the opportunity for some interested commentary on the "lists" people end up on.  Having been on a couple of them, and likely still there, I agree with the lady.


Home of woman critical of PD chief taken off hazard list

6 comments by Dianna M. Náñez - Dec. 19, 2009 08:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Over the past four months, Eleanor Holguin has railed against the Tempe mayor, police chief and council for abusing their power and refusing to justify why her family's address was deemed a hazard to police.

Now, she has been taken off the Tempe Police Department's hazard list and her criticism is mixed with gratitude for those who ultimately cleared her name. She told the council last week that she hopes others will benefit from her family's ordeal.

"I would like to believe that from here on out the procedure of putting and sustaining somebody on a hazard list will be followed up with investigating whether somebody has a valid reason to be on such a list," she said, speaking at Thursday's council meeting.

Holguin's battle with Tempe leaders began in August when she discovered her address was on the hazard list after she dialed 911 for her father and police cars showed up in addition to paramedics. An Arizona Republic review confirmed that Tempe is one of many local and national law-enforcement agencies that uses an internal police database to flag addresses as hazards without ever consulting the people living in the houses. The database is tied to a computer-aided dispatch system, which can include information about prior emergency calls, criminal activity or threats tied to an address.

Police say the policy provides public-safety workers with information about dangers at a residence, allowing them greater preparation and protection when responding to a dispatch.

After Holguin found out about the hazard flag she asked Tempe leaders to explain why her address was placed on the list and how she could request an investigation of whether the designation was improper.

Tempe's legal department said that they could not provide any information to Holguin because the hazard system was not for the public's review. If people found out why they were on the list, it could anger a resident and endanger the public, Tempe police
reasoned.

Holguin has long criticized Police Chief Tom Ryff, going so far as to call for his resignation. She believed that the designation was done in retaliation for those actions. Ryff has said that he was not involved in flagging Holguin's address.

"There are many reasons that a person might be placed on this (hazard) list and I agree completely with some of those reasons. I also understand that there is potential for abuse of power regarding this status," she said Thursday.

This week, Tempe police released an e-mail, with officers names blacked out, which Holguin wrote in July to a Tempe police officer
. In the e-mail, Holguin asks how she can file a complaint against Ryff because she believed he has encouraged lying within the department.

Holguin also wrote about being concerned for her safety because she was criticizing Ryff.

"I have taken precautions in and outside of my home to keep myself and my family safe," Holguin wrote.

That statement, said Mike Horn, a police spokesman, led an officer to bring the e-mail to Ryff's attention. Though Ryff read the e-mail, Horn said Ryff was not involved in the flagging decision.

Holguin has said that the precaution she referred to involved placing a security camera outside of her home.

"They would have known that if they just met with me," she said. "Instead they put my family through all of this. I hope no one ever has to go through what I went through. I've been called crazy, I lost my job."

Tempe police officials and Meyer confirmed this week that Holguin met with Cmdr. David Humble, a Tempe Internal Affairs investigator.

"Commander Humble made an assessment and made a determination to remove her from the list," Meyer said, adding that Holguin would soon be provided written confirmation that the address where her family has lived in Tempe for 40 years is no longer considered a hazard.

Meyer also described his recent meetings with Holguin.

"This was a case where you just sit down with somebody and you start to understand everything you thought was wrong," he said. "This is a woman who loves Tempe and cares about Tempe and I'm not going to pass judgment on her."

Despite Meyer's newfound appreciation for Holguin, Meyer said Tempe has no plans to change or review its policies for hazard designations.

"Honestly, I think this was an exceptional case," he reasoned.

At the council meeting, Holguin restated her criticism of Ryff.

"I will continue to collect information about the chief and I will continue to bring it to council and the public," she said.

[Balog]

Wow, I had no idea cop shops kept Nixon-style "enemies" lists.   

Hey Ambulance Driver, have you ever responded to a call from a "dangerous" address, or does your locale not swing that way? I wonder what the difference in response is...

[Boomhauer]

Wow, I had no idea cop shops kept Nixon-style "enemies" lists.

I've long suspected it.

A lot of people fret about the fed .gov. Me? I worry about the local .gov just as much, if not more.

[Viking]

Wow, I had no idea cop shops kept Nixon-style "enemies" lists.   

Hey Ambulance Driver, have you ever responded to a call from a "dangerous" address, or does your locale not swing that way? I wonder what the difference in response is...

The ambulance/fire services in atleast one city over here (Malmö) sort of keeps a list like that. Covers the whole RosengÃ¥rd area, a place that is full of Islamofascist shitbags, criminals of all colors, and people who generally hate this country. They tend to throw rocks, bottles, molotovs,  and shoot fireworks at rescue services, so the rescue services simply declared that they would not enter the area without police escort. Not strange, considering that the police won't go in without police escort (one car to check up on whatever the idiots are up to, and another to keep an eye on the first car). Can't say that I blame them. Being pelted with rocks and molotovs is not in their job description.

[Tallpine]

In our county, a deputy nearly always responds to every ambulance call.  I'm not sure the exact reason, but often the deputy gets there first as they are already out and about and the EMTs are just on-call.

I'm sure the local sheriff has a "list" even if it's just a mental one.  There are the "frequent flyers" as I call them (domestic stuff, usually).  Then there's the woman in town who has been raped repeatedly, and one day someone broke in and stole the insides out of her TV and replaced them with parts that don't work  

[geronimotwo]

Tempe's legal department said that they could not provide any information to Holguin because the hazard system was not for the public's review. If people found out why they were on the list, it could anger a resident and endanger the public, Tempe police
reasoned.

funny how they know the list will tick people off and yet they don't discontinue it.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

seems like a good idea to me.  whats she whining about?  do they not respond to her house?  leave dad ?

[MillCreek]

I can certainly say that the E911 dispatch centers in this area have a history of all calls (police, fire, and EMS) associated with a given address and that history is disclosed to units as they are rolling.  If I am on the medic unit, I would appreciate knowing that the resident has already had two heart attacks. I would also appreciate knowing if the house is a meth lab, since the hazmat team may need to secure the area and evacuate the patients for me.  If the resident is known for having a psych history and attacking first responders, that is also useful information.

I don't really see this concept as a Nixon-style 'enemies list'.

[Standing Wolf]

Tempe's legal department said that they could not provide any information to Holguin because the hazard system was not for the public's review. If people found out why they were on the list, it could anger a resident and endanger the public, Tempe police reasoned.

Nope. Satire. Couldn't happen in America.

[Jamisjockey]

I can certainly say that the E911 dispatch centers in this area have a history of all calls (police, fire, and EMS) associated with a given address and that history is disclosed to units as they are rolling.  If I am on the medic unit, I would appreciate knowing that the resident has already had two heart attacks. I would also appreciate knowing if the house is a meth lab, since the hazmat team may need to secure the area and evacuate the patients for me.  If the resident is known for having a psych history and attacking first responders, that is also useful information.

I don't really see this concept as a Nixon-style 'enemies list'.

Concept sounds great, but given the opportunity, those with too much power will promptly turn it into an enemies list.

Over the past four months, Eleanor Holguin has railed against the Tempe mayor, police chief and council for abusing their power and refusing to justify why her family's address was deemed a hazard to police.

So, sure, at first all the crackhouses and gang barrios go on there.  But then, people you don't like go on there.  And your political enemies go on there.  And next....the SS shows up and makes you wear a patch, right before they haul you off to the camps.  Oh, that's right, such lists HAVE been abused in the past....silly me....

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Holguin also wrote about being concerned for her safety because she was criticizing Ryff.

"I have taken precautions in and outside of my home to keep myself and my family safe," Holguin wrote

if you make certain noises don't be surprised at folks responding and reacting.  lady spoke to get a reaction.  got a different one than she fantasized about  panties got twisted

[MicroBalrog]

People seem to think that because, in modern society, we don't have death camps and mass graves, we no longer have oppression. These people are wrong.

[roo_ster]

Holguin also wrote about being concerned for her safety because she was criticizing Ryff.

"I have taken precautions in and outside of my home to keep myself and my family safe," Holguin wrote

if you make certain noises don't be surprised at folks responding and reacting.  lady spoke to get a reaction.  got a different one than she fantasized about  panties got twisted

I think you forget that the dirty SOB LEO tha tput her on the enelies list is supposed to be a public servant.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

that is true  he serves all the public. including anyone sent to that house for ambulance fire or police calls.  did he fail to serve her or dad when she called?  what is it that was done to her that harmed her?

[Perd Hapley]

Concept sounds great, but given the opportunity, those with too much power will promptly turn it into an enemies list.  So, sure, at first all the crackhouses and gang barrios go on there.  But then, people you don't like go on there.  And your political enemies go on there.  And next....the SS shows up and makes you wear a patch, right before they haul you off to the camps.  Oh, that's right, such lists HAVE been abused in the past....silly me....

Slippery slope and Godwin in the same post?  You rock!

Obviously, cops should keep track of which addresses/individuals have a history of making things get ugly.  Yeah, I suppose it will be abused/misused from time to time.  Welcome to human civilization.  Good things are used for evil purposes all the time here. 

Then there's the woman in town who has been raped repeatedly, and one day someone broke in and stole the insides out of her TV and replaced them with parts that don't work 

I see what she did there.

 

[Perd Hapley]

People seem to think that because, in modern society, we don't have death camps and mass graves, we no longer have oppression. These people are wrong.

I've never met those people.  I don't know about your AO, but around here you can't fling a dead cat without somebody complaining about oppression of one kind or another. 

[MillCreek]

Obviously, cops should keep track of which addresses/individuals have a history of making things get ugly.  Yeah, I suppose it will be abused/misused from time to time.  Welcome to human civilization.  Good things are used for evil purposes all the time here.  
  

In the military, they call this intel.  If you are the point man on a stick of troops that is about to bust a door in outer Moniraqstan, I suspect you want to know that this address is a known bomb factory.

Is this markedly different from the needs of first responders in civilian life?  That the resident has a history of seizures, is suffering from dementia, is an escaped felon?

PS: I would certainly agree that if such lists are maintained for political reasons, that is an invalid purpose.  I would want to see evidence of such political use only, however.  Like CSD said, does this mean that police/fire/EMS would not respond to the person mentioned in the OP?  I doubt it, without seeing evidence to the contrary.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if i shot my mouth off to one of you that i had something for you  you'd keep an eye on me or avoid me totally.  they don't have that option with the lady here.  whats her original beef?  got some background? i wanna know how crazy she really is/seems

[MicroBalrog]

I've never met those people.  I don't know about your AO, but around here you can't fling a dead cat without somebody complaining about oppression of one kind or another. 

And never have I seen a person complain about it without someone trying to mock these claims of oppression or dismiss them as non-extant.

[jackdanson]

I don't see a problem with keeping records of certain addresses on file.  Even at UPS we have flags for certain addresses. (dangerous dogs, Etc.). Obviously Im not thrilled if they use this as a political thing.  How did she even notice anything?  Deputies show up all the time before ambulances.

They need to have a method where you can obtain the information on your file and a way to remove it if it is inaccurate.  I don't see this as any kind of violation though, it's a system set up to help first responders deal with problems with less hassle.  If I was a cop I'd like to have a history of the calls to a domestic dispute I was going to.

[MechAg94]

I can certainly say that the E911 dispatch centers in this area have a history of all calls (police, fire, and EMS) associated with a given address and that history is disclosed to units as they are rolling.  If I am on the medic unit, I would appreciate knowing that the resident has already had two heart attacks. I would also appreciate knowing if the house is a meth lab, since the hazmat team may need to secure the area and evacuate the patients for me.  If the resident is known for having a psych history and attacking first responders, that is also useful information.

I don't really see this concept as a Nixon-style 'enemies list'.

This concept of maintaining history makes all the sense in the world.  What I can't figure out is why a separate list was created.  If there is a perceived danger of reacting badly to police, they could just plant a comment in this "history" for future first responders.  

Also, if they did perceive that email statement as a threat, why didn't they investigate and find out what it meant right then?  If someone thought she was laying traps outside her home, that sort of needs to be investigated doesn't it?

[Jamisjockey]

Yep.  The concept makes terrific sense.  Keeping a record of calls seems to be the way to accomplish this without it becoming a political issue.  But, there will also always be some power hungry tool out there who thinks that being elected or appointed to a high position means they have the right to compile a list of political enemies and "problem" citizens.  The mind runs rampant with ideas on ways to abuse such a list.  Obviously, the minute any "list" becomes secret, not subject to public oversight, well then there's a problem.  It'd be nice to know if the police have my home erroneously listed as a gang house or meth lab should I need to call 911 for something. 

[MechAg94]

No disagreement there.  I can understand not wanting the list open to the general public, but home owners should be able to see anything about their own home or property.

[Jamisjockey]

No disagreement there.  I can understand not wanting the list open to the general public, but home owners should be able to see anything about their own home or property.

Imagine just a simple mistake, such as them having your home listed as a meth lab.  Or even that you have a dangerous dog.  So, you call 911 because your kid fell down the stairs and needs an ambulance.  But the Ambulance won't show up until the police do.  And you lose 5 or 10 minutes because of a clerical mistake?  

Call me paranoid   but any time a public servant begins keeping secrets, as a citizen I'd be concerned.  History bears out that anytime those in power start keeping lists of people who don't agree with them, the next step is to oppress those people.  Maybe I'm nuts  but history don't lie.

[RoadKingLarry]

Holguin also wrote about being concerned for her safety because she was criticizing Ryff.

"I have taken precautions in and outside of my home to keep myself and my family safe," Holguin wrote

if you make certain noises don't be surprised at folks responding and reacting.  lady spoke to get a reaction.  got a different one than she fantasized about  panties got twisted

Sounds more like she attempted to exercise her 1st Amendment rights, that part about a redress of grievances, and the sheriff decided she was a danger, to his career.