Author Topic: Am I out of line to complain?  (Read 13231 times)

De Selby

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2011, 10:12:13 AM »
De Selby, this is an apartment and there are clauses in most standard leases that cover the fact that a representative from management may enter the apartment in emergencies and with proper notice.

That's the point - "in emergencies" and "with proper notice" are limitations intended to preserve the rights of people like HForrest.   It is not okay to just come in any time with 24 hours' notice because the homeowner wants to have a look.  To do so would be to deny HForrest the right to his home, which is precisely what the homeowner sold him.  That's why leases are always interpreted, and the law requires, to restrict landlord access to very specific circumstances, irrespective of advance notice.

If homeowners don't want other people denying them access to their property or interpreting a lease as if it is indeed a lease, they shouldn't be leasing out their properties.  There are other arrangements they can enter into; it's just that those are not as profitable or as secure as a lease.  

I see no reason why tenants should be treated as if they have no property in their homes, when that's precisely the thing a lease conveys.
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Fitz

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2011, 10:35:07 AM »
this isn't a rights issue, it's a contracts issue. What does the LEASE consider "sufficient notice?"
Fitz

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BridgeRunner

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2011, 10:41:29 AM »
Where in "property appraisal" "revarnish door"' and "perform drain maintenance" are you reading "come in and poke around with no apparent or actual purpose"? Three instances in a year is not excessive, nor are any of the tasks performed outside the scope of the landlord's role in the lease.

The landlord has a duty to maintain the premises in habitable condition. This means functioning drains, among other things.

Sounds like a great landlord.

Fitz

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2011, 10:42:48 AM »
Yeah... that too. He's not coming in and snooping about, he's having legitimate things done.
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HForrest

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2011, 11:06:06 AM »
This is not a matter of rights. My rights are not being violated. It is an issue of general courtesy.
Quote
Can you blame him formwanting to keep his investment up?
No. When I only know about it for 12 hours before the fact, yes.

Fitz

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2011, 11:07:26 AM »
I was taking issue with DeSelby's predictably weird post.


My question for you was, what does the LEASE (and/or state law) consider sufficient notice?
Fitz

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wmenorr67

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2011, 11:12:47 AM »
When I only know about it for 12 hours before the fact, yes.

You also mentioned that it is an ongoing issue.  Have you taken your concerns to management?
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HForrest

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2011, 11:14:07 AM »
Well it happened once before for property appraisal. I thought that was a one-time deal, but then I came home to this notice last evening. I will bring it up with them today.

HForrest

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2011, 11:16:39 AM »
Quote
My question for you was, what does the LEASE (and/or state law) consider sufficient notice?
24 hours. There is no legal problem here. I never suggested there was, or that my 'rights' were being infringed on in any way. I have only suggested that the manner in which I was informed was rude and inconsiderate, taking into account the non-urgent reasons behind their visit.

Fitz

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2011, 11:17:58 AM »
I understand that. My "rights" comments were directed to deselby.


If he gave you 12 hours notice, he's breaching the lease and you have grounds to deny access, I'd imagine.

As per the courtesy aspect... yeah... you have a valid complaint. It's kinda rude.
Fitz

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wmenorr67

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2011, 11:19:15 AM »
My experience from living in an apartment is that there is routine maintenance that has to be conducted.  And you may think that they could schedule more than a day out but depending upon the size of the complex and number of workers available, most only work on a day to day schedule based on other issues.  They may have started the drain project a week ago and are just now getting to your area, or who knows, there could have been an issue with a drain in another unit and so now the management team said we need to do this now to prevent any other issues.

You just never know.  But you can't solve your issue with your landlord by bitching about it in an online forum.  You need to talk to them with your concerns.  Most reasonable teams will try to work with your schedule.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

wmenorr67

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2011, 11:20:55 AM »
If this is an apartment complex, it isn't unusal to notify residents of blanket maintenace visits by posting notes on doors.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Brad Johnson

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2011, 11:23:21 AM »

If homeowners don't want other people denying them access to their property or interpreting a lease as if it is indeed a lease, they shouldn't be leasing out their properties.

Ahhh.. the typical renter mentality summed up in a sentence.  "I pay rent so it's my RIGHT to do with the property as I please."

Sorry, De, it's their property, not yours.  In exchange for your money you get the privilege of habitating in their property.  You can all it what you want but trying to ascribe an emotional state - your "call it a 'home'" statement - is a philisophical argument, not a legal or ethical one.  Your "rights" as a renter extend to the owner being required to keep the property habitable and reasonably hazard free for the duration of your stay, and to give reasonable prior notice for necessary visits (and "necessary" includes routine property condition inspections.)  Your responsibility as a renter includes maintaining the property in the same, or better, condition than the day you moved in.  That includes basic cleaning, groundskeeping (if applicable), and maintaining the property in a way not conducive to damage, deterioration, or infestation.


I see no reason why tenants should be treated as if they have no property in their homes, when that's precisely the thing a lease conveys.

Incorrect.  The lease treats the tenants as if the house/apartment is not their property.  Unfortunately the majority of tenants seem to conveniently forget this.  I find it jaw-droppingly insipid when tenants will complain "this is MY HOUSE!!!" but treat the place like it's some valueless disposable, the place being a dismal, disgusting, detritus-covered pigsty (usually complete the with feces/urine of the animal the renters "don't own").

Your argument is falling on deaf ears.  Anyone who's dealt with renters can tell you that they've heard your argument a hundred times, and that ninety nine of those times it was laughably disconnected from the reality that unfolded.

As said by others, if you want complete control over who comes and goes, buy your own place.  As a secondary solution you could rent a house and not an apartment.  Houses tend to be visited less by the owners due to the inconvenience of their properties being geographically removed.  However, the owners tend to be far more scrutinizing and critical of potential renter-induced liveability/habitability issues (i.e. - a filthy slob lifestyle that is conducive to rodents/insects) or to damages that might be treated less severly by apartment owners who have staff/materials on hand to repair them (i.e. - holes punched in walls, broken windows, animal-damaged floors/doorframes, etc.).


Back to the OP's question... If it's happening consistently then address it with the owners.  If they will not work with you then take it up with the your local attorney general or the state real estate licensing agency.  If the owners have been properly posting the notices and this one somehow slipped through the crack, then it's non-issue.  Stop obsessing over a detail and get on with life.  This is an inconvenience, not a problem.  Stop treating it like one. 

Also, clean up your pigsty of an apartment.  If your place isn't decent enough that you could have a friend, family member, or guest over on, say, an hour's notice, then pick it up, buttercup.  Putting your race-striped underoos in the dirty clothes hamper is just as easy as throwing them on the floor.  The rest of your "stuff" that's cluttering up the place? Well, put it up when you're finished with it.  Pretty easy, eh?

Brad
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 02:22:00 PM by Brad Johnson »
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T.O.M.

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2011, 12:21:58 PM »
One of the reasons I love APS is that you always get an honest answer...no matter how much it may hurt.   :lol:

Back to the OP, and this is just abit of advice from a former slob who learned better...HForrest, it's time to learn that for yourself.  Why?  Because life is easier that way, especially when you live alone.  Do a load of laundry and put it away then, which beats the frantic search for a matching sock when you're running late in the morning. 

Biggest reason I started to change in law school from slob to human was a woman.  A special woman who liked to do fun things like show up at my apartment with coffee and donuts for no reason but knowing I was up late writing a paper.  Or show up to watch a football game with a csae of beer and a pizza.  Or for other reasons.  And, I liked her company, and didn't like being embarrased by the condition of my apartment, so I started to keep it clean, and realized life was much better when I lived that way.  No need to iron a wrinkle-free dress shirt if i hung it up right away.  Things like that.

And, on the apartment thing, I suggest that you get used to it if you're going to be a renter.  Yes, it could have been more polite to give advanced notice, but it's the owner's business, so it's not an issue of courtesy, it's an issue of contract/lease. 
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

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BridgeRunner

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2011, 12:28:06 PM »
Uh...much as I hate to agree with de Selby, no, Brad, a lease conveys a property interest and that property interest includes various rights in the property. "Ownership in fee simple absolute/clear title/whatever you want to call straight up permanent ownership" is not one of those rights, and the attitude that it is is irritating to people who rent out property, but to conclude from that that a renter is not purchasing any rights, merely "responsibilities" is probably a more meaningless and emotionally-driven distinction that de Selby's claim that a lease conveys a right to "a home"--which is pretty much a marketing term more than anything else.

Your apparent blanket perception of renters generally as what my father terms "low-life scum of the earth" is pretty unfair. I didn't buy a house in 2004 when I had the opportunity because prices seemed too inflated, mortgage "deals" seemed too shadily incomprehensible, and it seemed ridiculous to pay 5x my salary for a house because "prices will just keep going up." I had another chance to buy a house in 2006, and I didn't, because I was going to school and didn't want to hav a sell a house before I could move. Sucky as my situation has been until a couple months ago, it would oh-so-much worse if my ex and I had done what a whole lot of our friends were doing and bought a house at the top of the bubble.

Your broad brush there got a little too much venom on me, and yes, I have rights in leasehold. Even if you don't like it.

Fitz

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2011, 12:30:07 PM »
I bought a house because my landlord was a total bunghole

I'm glad I did.
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

zxcvbob

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2011, 12:32:57 PM »
"It's good, though..."

Scout26

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2011, 01:06:22 PM »
You asked, and I quote:

Quote
Am I out of line to complain?

The answer you are getting from the collective brain trust (we don't count De Selby, as he will take the contrary view, no matter the issue) is "YES".  with a side of "Suck it up Buttercup" and "Quit being a slob" thrown in for good measure.

It appears that you don't care for that answer.

Ennnhhh.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 01:25:50 PM by scout26 »
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wmenorr67

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2011, 01:16:59 PM »
collective brain trust

And collectively we have a brain. :laugh:
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2011, 02:08:28 PM »
You asked, and I quote:

The answer you are getting from the collective brain trust (we don't count De Selby, as he will take the contrary view, no matter the issue)

Ahem.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2011, 02:08:39 PM »


Your apparent blanket perception of renters generally as what my father terms "low-life scum of the earth" is pretty unfair.

Sorry, has nothing to do with fair or unfair.  It's also not a "blanket perception".  It's reality, one created by the renters themselves.  It's been my experience that the vast majority, at least 7 or 8 out of every 10, are riddled with an entitlement mentality and a seeming pathological need to lay claim to something that was never theirs in order to generally trash the place through willful neglect.  It's amazing, really... they will give the "I pay rent so it's my home" line when they don't want the owner seeing what a sty the place has become, but it becomes "hey, it's your property so it's not my problem" when they move out and leave a couple thou in damages not covered by the security deposit (imagine their surprise when the small claims court judgement against them indicates the error of their misperception).

If you're one of the few who IS a good renter, you are to be congratulated.  Unfortunately you are the minority and your fellow renters are doing you no favors by their actions.

Brad
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Jamie B

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2011, 02:10:52 PM »
Hey, Jamie, a big middle finger to you also. >:D

You know I love most of you on her as brothers and sisters.  With friends and family like this...............

And as for the bolded, not since at least June or was it March.?
*expletive deleted*ck me? No, *expletive deleted*ck you!

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wmenorr67

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2011, 02:16:15 PM »
*expletive deleted* me? No, *expletive deleted* you!

Never mind, as we are both married and will never be *expletive deleted*ed!


Other than Rosy and her five sisters you are correct.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Brad Johnson

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2011, 02:24:12 PM »

Other than Rosy and her five sisters you are correct.

TMI!!  TMI!!  TMI!!  TMI!!  TMI!!  TMI!!  TMI!!  TMI!!  TMI!! 

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Am I out of line to complain?
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2011, 03:08:21 PM »
once upon a time there were 2 guys who were roomates  both were real slobs.  one fine day one called to complain that they wanted the place painted and get some minor maintenance done. these guys were real slobs.  after the maintenance guys came there arrived a registered letter spelling out why they were being evicted and yes  it was for their mutual sloth.  and it flew in court


complain if you want  but please do let us knbow how it works out >:D
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