Author Topic: An Argument for the Privatization of Police  (Read 4015 times)

jselvy

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An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« on: July 01, 2007, 04:28:19 AM »
An Argument for the Privatization of Police


     Unequivocally I will state that there is no Police duty that can no be performed with more grace charm and tact by a private contractor. I intend to prove this beyond a doubt. The purpose of this argument is to prove that the people will be the beneficiaries if such outsourcing.
     In order for this argument to be understandable, we will need to make some basic changes to the average mindset as to the purpose and employers of the police. This is most easily done if a true free market framework is assumed and the government is the limited Constitutional Republic as outlined in the U.S. Constitution. There seems to be no constitutional basis for governmental law enforcement agencies as the Constitution only mentions the militia in the context of enforcing the laws.
     The Police work for the people ultimately and for no other entity. They are hired to do certain jobs that involve the investigation of crime, the duties as Master-at-arms for the courts, and protection of life and property. The most pressing problem with the police as constituted is the widespread abuse of power that seemingly goes unpunished. This is primarily due to the fact that these agencies are not subject to civilian oversight and free market forces. Uniformed reprobates like Officer Abbate and Detective Weems of the Chicago Police Department are prime examples of abuse of power without consequence.
     In our proposed free market republic the tax burden on the individual would be small to non existent, providing up to eight times the disposable income than that currently enjoyed by the average American Citizen. This would allow for private policing. Examined one by one the major duties can be performed, and in some cases are already being performed by private companies.
     Investigation of crime is, to a certain extent, already performed by private detectives. These detectives are not exempt from the law so they must move within it in order to protect themselves from prosecution. Private detectives are paid for results and often have no personal stake in the job at hand and thus have no reason to fabricate or suppress evidence. The current police on the other hand are personally involved with their cases and sometimes take it personally when a citizen that they thought to be guilty is acquitted by the courts. This personal feeling can lead to harassment and other abuses of power. A private detective has no protection from the law and thus must walk softly in order not to end up as a criminal himself. A private company would have fired and prosecuted both Weems and Abbate in order to save their reputation and customer base. This isnt politics, it is economics. The victim of a crime would hire any of several investigative services to perform the required duties and present the evidence before a Judge, thus providing a much needed disconnect between the courts and police. There would be no basis for a judge to accept any investigators word over that of any other citizen. This would help reduce the prejudicial coloring of a trial before it began.
     Master-at-arms duties can be parceled out on a case by case basis. The courts Master-at-arms is tasked with bringing the defendant before the bench. This is the basis of the power to arrest. If an investigative service brought evidence before a judge, and said judge thought that it was worthy of consideration, he could issue a warrant for the arrest of the defendant and allow the investigative service to carry it out. With no immunity to criminal or civil liability they would have to go about the arrest very circumspectly. Thus the infamous no knock warrant would be invalid as no private agency would risk their business to perform it.
     Protection of life and property is already being done, theoretically, by private security firms. There is no reason not to expand this to cover the whole of the populace. You and your neighbors hire a security firm to protect your neighborhood. The firm is still subject to all civil and criminal laws which have a retarding effect of power abuses. His could also be part and parcel of an insurance policy. It would be interesting to see the insurance companies actually do something other than collect premiums and fight you over claims.
     Thus, all major duties of the Police are performed by private companies. With no monolithic organization of Prosecutors, Judges, and Police, the average American has a better chance at true due process and an impartial trial. Without said organization, those who abuse their police powers could be rooted out, prosecuted for their crimes, and sued in civil courts. Therefore they would find themselves without work in short order. This would be of tremendous benefit to the citizenry of all stripes.

Jefferson A. Selvy 7/1/2007 all rights cheerfully exercised

Thor

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2007, 05:11:46 AM »
Many State's laws would have to be changed in order to effect this change. While private security is often covered under state laws, not always. I see that it could slow police corruption/abuse, but there's always that 10% rule. So, in effect, it may even increase corruption/abuse. These guys aren't going to be paid very well. Low pay often equates to the "they owe me" attitude. Although privatization of America's police departments MAY have a positive effect, I can see a lot of wholes in your theory. I DO doubt it would be the panacea you claim.
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jselvy

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2007, 05:32:46 AM »
Go ahead and poke the holes so I can clean them up.

Jefferson

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2007, 06:21:55 AM »
The use of arbitrators for many cases would seriously free up alot of what the courts and police are bound to do.  Do away with family and civil court (replaced with arbitrators). 
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2007, 07:26:11 AM »
Hard to know where to begin.
It is basic that gov't has the power to enforce its own laws.  The means of enforcement is the police.  In any case, the Constitution is primarily concerned with the Federal gov't while most police forces are under state or local control.

As for private contractors and their "grace and charm" I will say that one of my ex-customers is a licensed security guard, or at least claimed to be.  He flunked the background check and would not take proper steps to clean up the record.  Now (today) he is calling me to come in and sell his wife an AR-15.  No, I don't think so.  So much for grace and charm.

The police do not "work for the people".  They are hired by the respective governments, which in turn are answerable to the people through voting.  Even if they did I do not see how this affects an argument for privatization.

As for "rampant police corruption" I dont see it.  Yes, there is some.  But consider the sheer numbers of people involved in law enforcement and the corrupt numbers seem small.  Further, I dont see privatizing as in any way mitigating corruption.

I'll add that generally I am sympathetic to arguments on reducing the size and function of gov't.  I think it's scandalous that state and local gov'ts have gotten into the game of attracting major league sports teams and the like.
But this one doesn't pass muster.
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2007, 07:57:51 AM »
while there is a lot of police malfeasance, I am not sure that privatizing the police function would solve anything.

the real answer is to get rid of most of the victim less crimes and stop using police as revenue sources.

that would eliminate maybe 75% of police, and greatly reduce the scope of problems.
bob

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2007, 07:58:11 AM »
Slight thread drift....... Rabbi, you wouldn't want to know what I think about MN and their sports teams/Govt/ stadium issues. To keep it concise, why should the "people" subsidize a private enterprise?? We won't even discuss stadium location. Downtown Minneapolis?? Come on, not everybody lives in Downtown Minneapolis, ingress and egress to/from the downtown area is painful, at best, parking sucks and is VERY expensive. San Diego did it right when they built Jack Murphy Stadium (it has another name now, but it's still Jack Murphy to me)

Back on topic, as I see it, privatization would attract the less desirable folks and give them a way into the "system". Once in there, they could and probably would find ways to abuse it, even worse than it is now. Can we say, "payola" ??
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2007, 04:48:30 PM »
Jefferson, I would agree with your general theory, but from a different point of view.

What is the "service" that police provides now?  Or more accurately, what is the service that most people desire from police, whether they are getting it or not?

I maintain that it is "security" of our persons and our property.  But that is not really what the police provide, but rather "law enforcement' - which is a service to the government that they work for.  The courts have already made it clear that in effect the police may "refuse service to anyone" Sad

"Security" to me implies prevention or at least interception of criminal activity, not investigation and punishment after the fact which does little to help the original victims.  Certainly, it doesn't bring anyone back to life, undo rape trauma, and only occasionally is stolen property recovered.

Yes, I still want to see "justice" but the best justice is when the career of an armed robber or rapist is permanently ended by a well-armed intended victim.

I've thought about this a lot and I still don't have all the answers, but what we have now is really not working all that well.  The biggest problem is that the average private citizen is either not willing and/or not allowed to protect their own lives and property in a significant manner.  That might mean "do-it-yourself" security, or hiring someone else if you think that is a better use of your time/money.

Of course the very wealthy, corporations, and the state will always be able to hire effective security for themselves.  You will notice that for the most part the first two do not depend on the third for their security services Wink
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2007, 05:23:24 PM »
while there is a lot of police malfeasance, I am not sure that privatizing the police function would solve anything.

the real answer is to get rid of most of the victim less crimes and stop using police as revenue sources.

that would eliminate maybe 75% of police, and greatly reduce the scope of problems.
I'm with ilbob to some extent.  I think there are probably other solutions that would be better.
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2007, 06:59:12 PM »
jselvy: if you're looking for ways to improve your argument may I suggest putting some freaking space between paragraphs. That's damn hard to read.
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2007, 07:52:18 PM »
PRIVATIZE police functions?

Absolutely NOT.

IF you want police to become more accountable to the people they serve, make the head police function an elected, not hired, nor appointed, position.
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2007, 05:38:47 AM »
jselvy:

I am generally in favor of reducing the size & scope of gov't.

There are a few real challenges to the privatization of police functions.

Which brings up the purpose & function of police.
1. Is it, as TR writes, to enforce gov't's laws (serve gov't)?
OR
2. Is it to prevent crimes from occurring to citizens (serve the citizenry)?

If the former, a private police force gains nothing.  The customer is gov't and abuses against citizens and corruption is incidental to the objective.  If the latter, abuses and corruption cut to the heart of police function.

I think that privatization could work in many cases.  We see it work when providing other services formerly thought to be the gov'ts' duty to provide (roads, garbage collection, prisons, etc.).  Private companies even provide such services as protection for gov't officials in Iraq (Blackwater), service & support (Halliburton), and other tasks that have some violent content.

I think that some municipality, somewhere ought to try it out, so we can see the advantages and disadvantages in practice. 

---------

Corruption & abuse are partly a function of location.  Generally, the larger & more dense the population, the greater the amount of both. Rural areas are not Mayberry, but lower population densities and knowing the local police & their families (& what everyone is up to) attenuates corrupt & abusive behavior.

There are some very sharp gov't-paid police investigators.  That said, a privatized model, with more money ending up in the pockets of the investigators & private policemen, would have better personnel.  You get what you pay for.  Just ask New Orleans if they got quality folks to work for NOPD wages.

Mike Irwin makes a good point: elected officials are much more accountable and much more reactive to the will of the citizenry.  The more layers of bureaucracy, the less the guy at the end of the org chart cares if the citizens are happy.





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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2007, 07:34:12 AM »
Really.bad.idea.  Look at the way the corporate world operates.  First, they'd be hiring the lowest paid schlumpfs they could find.  Wannabees that for one reason or another couldn't get on a regular police department.  Then, the CEO would get 8 or 9 figures plus goodies for delivering maximum profits to the shareholders.  So you've introduced a whole 'nother level of greed and corruption on top of whatever problems you've got now.  Plus, now you have 2 deep pockets instead of one, which increases the incentive to sue.   Somebody sues and names both the gubmint entity and the hired guns, who blame each other, but both wind up paying.  What a mess.  Look at 'privatization' of the military in Iraq, for example.  The government needs private contractors in order to avoid/evade limitations onthe actions of military personnel.

No, not a good idea at all to privatize the police powers of the state.

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2007, 08:00:15 AM »

Corruption & abuse are partly a function of location.  Generally, the larger & more dense the population, the greater the amount of both. Rural areas are not Mayberry, but lower population densities and knowing the local police & their families (& what everyone is up to) attenuates corrupt & abusive behavior.
I can see you haven't spent much time in rural Tennessee.

The most corrupt counties around here also happen to be the most rural.  McNairy County (home to Buford Pusser) is notorious in this regard, with everyone being on the payroll of someone else.
It is the "good ole boy" network and it encourages corruption.  Nashville used to be like that but in more recent years there is less tolerance for such things, esp as the city has grown.  That isnt to say we dont have corruption but it is not nearly as blatant and widespread as in other places.
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2007, 09:11:06 AM »
    In our proposed free market republic the tax burden on the individual would be small to non existent, providing up to eight times the disposable income than that currently enjoyed by the average American Citizen. This would allow for private policing. Examined one by one the major duties can be performed, and in some cases are already being performed by private companies.

There will still be some people who will be unable to afford the protection of these private police forces.  And while there are various things currently provided by governments that I think ought to be provided on a "if you can't pay for it, tough luck" basis, the protection of the law is not one of them.

Quote
     Investigation of crime is, to a certain extent, already performed by private detectives. These detectives are not exempt from the law so they must move within it in order to protect themselves from prosecution. Private detectives are paid for results and often have no personal stake in the job at hand and thus have no reason to fabricate or suppress evidence. The current police on the other hand are personally involved with their cases and sometimes take it personally when a citizen that they thought to be guilty is acquitted by the courts. This personal feeling can lead to harassment and other abuses of power. A private detective has no protection from the law and thus must walk softly in order not to end up as a criminal himself. A private company would have fired and prosecuted both Weems and Abbate in order to save their reputation and customer base. This isnt politics, it is economics.

Paid by results?  Doesn't that give an inherent incentive to fabricate a "result"?

And sure, a policeman can become obsessed with a case, take an instinctive (or prejudiced) suspicion to someone, and go out of their way to harass them, but so could a privet detective.  Especially if they get bullying a confession, or forcing them to change their behavior in some way could be seen as a "result" for which they would get paid.

Now, I can accept that there may at times be a sense of group loyalty that means the police may not always be willing to properly investigate misbehavior by other police.  But the police are still subject to the law, private companies can and frequently do fail to take action against misbehaving employees, and businesses can and do get lawmakers to set rules favorable to them.

Quote
With no immunity to criminal or civil liability they would have to go about the arrest very circumspectly. Thus the infamous no knock warrant would be invalid as no private agency would risk their business to perform it.

Why not?

If it can be made legal for the police to do so, why could it not be made legal for a private arresting company to do the same?  Why could a court not issue a "no-knock" warrant to a private company?

Quote
     Protection of life and property is already being done, theoretically, by private security firms. There is no reason not to expand this to cover the whole of the populace. You and your neighbors hire a security firm to protect your neighborhood. The firm is still subject to all civil and criminal laws which have a retarding effect of power abuses.

Which will be enforced by other private security companies.  Who may have visible open or not-so-open links to each other.  (Unions, cartels, CEOs play golf together, etc).  If the police can be to friendly wit each other to properly investigate each other's wrongdoing, then so can private businesses.




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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2007, 07:21:54 PM »
Quote
In our proposed free market republic the tax burden on the individual would be small to non existent, providing up to eight times the disposable income than that currently enjoyed by the average American Citizen.

Where did this fascinating tidbit come from?
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2007, 07:31:00 PM »
IMHO, a private force could be more motivated to "serve and protect." Since governmental entities have no duty to protect, that would be an interesting concept to bring up - at least to also get the target audience thinking about the concept not only of a hired mercenary force, but of taking the initiative of protecting themselves...
 
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2007, 06:08:02 PM »
http://www.mises.org/rothbard/newliberty11.asp

Quote
Police Protection

THE MARKET AND PRIVATE ENTERPRISE do exist, and so most people can readily envision a free market in most goods and services. Probably the most difficult single area to grasp, however, is the abolition of govern­ment operations in the service of protection: police, the courts, etc.the area encompassing defense of person and property against attack or invasion. How could private enterprise and the free market possibly provide such service? How could police, legal systems, judicial services, law enforcement, prisonshow could these be provided in a free market? We have already seen how a great deal of police protection, at the least, could be supplied by the various owners of streets and land areas. But we now need to examine this entire area systematically.

In the first place, there is a common fallacy, held even by most advocates of laissez-faire, that the government must supply "police pro­tection," as if police protection were a single, absolute entity, a fixed quantity of something which the government supplies to all. But in actual fact there is no absolute commodity called "police protection" any more than there is an absolute single commodity called "food" or "shelter." It is true that everyone pays taxes for a seemingly fixed quan­tity of protection, but this is a myth. In actual fact, there are almost infinite degrees of all sorts of protection. For any given person or busi­ness, the police can provide everything from a policeman on the beat who patrols once a night, to two policemen patrolling constantly on each block, to cruising patrol cars, to one or even several round-the-clock personal bodyguards. Furthermore, there are many other decisions the police must make, the complexity of which becomes evident as soon as we look beneath the veil of the myth of absolute "protection." How shall the police allocate their funds which are, of course, always limited as are the funds of all other individuals, organizations, and agencies? How much shall the police invest in electronic equipment? fingerprint­ing equipment? detectives as against uniformed police? patrol cars as against foot police, etc?

The point is that the government has no rational way to make these allocations. The government only knows that it has a limited budget. Its allocations of funds are then subject to the full play of politics, boon­doggling, and bureaucratic inefficiency, with no indication at all as to whether the police department is serving the consumers in a way respon­sive to their desires or whether it is doing so efficiently. The situation would be different if police services were supplied on a free, competitive market. In that case, consumers would pay for whatever degree of protec­tion they wish to purchase. The consumers who just want to see a policeman once in a while would pay less than those who want continu­ous patrolling, and far less than those who demand twenty-four-hour bodyguard service. On the free market, protection would be supplied in proportion and in whatever way that the consumers wish to pay for it. A drive for efficiency would be insured, as it always is on the market, by the compulsion to make profits and avoid losses, and thereby to keep costs low and to serve the highest demands of the consumers. Any police firm that suffers from gross inefficiency would soon go bank­rupt and disappear.

One big problem a government police force must always face is: what laws really to enforce? Police departments are theoretically faced with the absolute injunction, "enforce all laws," but in practice a limited budget forces them to allocate their personnel and equipment to the most urgent crimes. But the absolute dictum pursues them and works against a rational allocation of resources. On the free market, what would be enforced is whatever the customers are willing to pay for. Suppose, for example, that Mr. Jones has a precious gem he believes might soon be stolen. He can ask, and pay for, round-the-clock police protection at whatever strength he may wish to work out with the police company. He might, on the other hand, also have a private road on his estate he doesn't want many people to travel onbut he might not care very much about trespassers on that road. In that case, he won't devote any police resources to protecting the road. As on the market in general, it is up to the consumerand since all of us are consumers this means each person individually decides how much and what kind of protection he wants and is willing to buy.

All that we have said about landowners' police applies to private police in general. Free-market police would not only be efficient, they would have a strong incentive to be courteous and to refrain from brutality against either their clients or their clients' friends or customers. A private Central Park would be guarded efficiently in order to maximize park revenue, rather than have a prohibitive curfew imposed on innocentand payingcustomers. A free market in police would reward efficient and courteous police protection to customers and penalize any falling off from this standard. No longer would there be the current disjunction between service and payment inherent in all government operations, a disjunction which means that police, like all other government agen­cies, acquire their revenue, not voluntarily and competitively from con­sumers, but from the taxpayers coercively.

In fact, as government police have become increasingly inefficient, consumers have been turning more and more to private forms of protec­tion. We have already mentioned block or neighborhood protection. There are also private guards, insurance companies, private detectives, and such increasingly sophisticated equipment as safes, locks, and closed-circuit TV and burglar alarms. The President's Commission on Law Enforcement and the Administration of Justice estimated in 1969 that government police cost the American public $2.8 billion a year, while it spends $1.35 billion on private protection service and another $200 million on equipment, so that private protection expenses amounted to over half the outlay on government police. These figures should give pause to those credulous folk who believe that police protection is some­how, by some mystic right or power, necessarily and forevermore an attribute of State sovereignty.1

Every reader of detective fiction knows that private insurance detec­tives are far more efficient than the police in recovering stolen property. Not only is the insurance company impelled by economics to serve the consumerand thereby try to avoid paying benefitsbut the major focus of the insurance company is very different from that of the police. The police, standing as they do for a mythical "society," are primarily interested in catching and punishing the criminal; restoring the stolen loot to the victim is strictly secondary. To the insurance company and its detectives, on the other hand, the prime concern is recovery of the loot, and apprehension and punishment of the criminal is secondary to the prime purpose of aiding the victim of crime. Here we see again the difference between a private firm impelled to serve the customer-victim of crime and the public police, which is under no such economic compulsion.

We cannot blueprint a market that exists only as an hypothesis, but it is reasonable to believe that police service in the libertarian society would be supplied by the landowners or by insurance companies. Since insurance companies would be paying benefits to victims of crime, it is highly likely that they would supply police service as a means of keeping down crime and hence their payment of benefits. It is certainly likely in any case that police service would be paid for in regular monthly premiums, with the police agencywhether insurance company or notcalled on whenever needed.

This supplies what should be the first simple answer to a typical nightmare question of people who first hear about the idea of a totally private police: "Why, that means that if you're attacked or robbed you have to rush over to a policeman and start dickering on how much it will cost to defend you." A moment's reflection should show that no service is supplied in this way on the free market. Obviously, the person who wants to be protected by Agency A or Insurance Company B will pay regular premiums rather than wait to be attacked before buying protection. "But suppose an emergency occurs and a Company A police­man sees someone being mugged; will he stop to ask if the victim has bought insurance from Company A?" In the first place, this sort of street crime will be taken care of, as we noted above, by the police hired by whoever owns the street in question. But what of the unlikely case that a neighborhood does not have street police, and a policeman of Company A happens to see someone being attacked? Will he rush to the victim's defense? That, of course, would be up to Company A, but it is scarcely conceivable that private police companies would not cultivate goodwill by making it a policy to give free aid to victims in emergency situations and perhaps ask the rescued victim for a voluntary donation afterward. In the case of a homeowner being robbed or at­tacked, then of course he will call on whichever police company he has been using. He will call Police Company A rather than "the police" he calls upon now.

Competition insures efficiency, low price, and high quality, and there is no reason to assume a priori, as many people do, that there is something divinely ordained about having only one police agency in a given geo­graphical area. Economists have often claimed that the production of certain goods or services is a "natural monopoly," so that more than one private agency could not long survive in a given area. Perhaps, although only a totally free market could decide the matter once and for all. Only the market can decide what and how many firms, and of what size and quality, can survive in active competition. But there is no reason to suppose in advance that police protection is a "natural monopoly." After all, insurance companies are not; and if we can have Metropolitan, Equitable, Prudential, etc., insurance companies coexist­ing side by side, why not Metropolitan, Equitable, and Prudential police protection companies? Gustave de Molinari, the nineteenth-century French free-market economist, was the first person in history to contem­plate and advocate a free market for police protection.2 Molinari esti­mated that there would eventually turn out to be several private police agencies side by side in the cities, and one private agency in each rural area. Perhapsbut we must realize that modern technology makes much more feasible branch offices of large urban firms in even the most re­mote rural areas. A person living in a small village in Wyoming, there­fore, could employ the services of a local protection company, or he might use a nearby branch office of the Metropolitan Protection Com­pany.

"But how could a poor person afford private protection he would have to pay for instead of getting free protection, as he does now?" There are several answers to this question, one of the most common criticisms of the idea of totally private police protection. One is: that this problem of course applies to any commodity or service in the libertar­ian society, not just the police. But isn't protection necessary? Perhaps, but then so is food of many different kinds, clothing, shelter, etc. Surely these are at least as vital if not more so than police protection, and yet almost nobody says that therefore the government must nationalize food, clothing, shelter, etc., and supply these free as a compulsory monop­oly. Very poor people would be supplied, in general, by private charity, as we saw in our chapter on welfare. Furthermore, in the specific case of police there would undoubtedly be ways of voluntarily supplying free police protection to the indigenteither by the police companies themselves for goodwill (as hospitals and doctors do now) or by special "police aid" societies that would do work similar to "legal aid" societies today. (Legal aid societies voluntarily supply free legal counsel to the indigent in trouble with the authorities.)

There are important supplementary considerations. As we have seen, police service is not "free"; it is paid for by the taxpayer, and the taxpayer is very often the poor person himself. He may very well be paying more in taxes for police now than he would in fees to private, and far more efficient, police companies. Furthermore, the police companies would be tapping a mass market; with the economies of such a large-scale market, police protection would undoubtedly be much cheaper. No police company would wish to price itself out of a large chunk of its market, and the cost of protection would be no more prohibitively expensive than, say, the cost of insurance today. (In fact, it would tend to be much cheaper than current insurance, because the insurance indus­try today is heavily regulated by government to keep out low-cost com­petition.)

There is a final nightmare which most people who have contemplated private protection agencies consider to be decisive in rejecting such a concept. Wouldn't the agencies always be clashing? Wouldn't "anarchy" break out, with perpetual conflicts between police forces as one person calls in "his" police while a rival calls in "his"?

There are several levels of answers to this crucial question. In the first place, since there would be no overall State, no central or even single local government, we would at least be spared the horror of inter­State wars, with their plethora of massive, superdestructive, and now nuclear, weapons. As we look back through history, isn't it painfully clear that the number of people killed in isolated neighborhood "rum­bles" or conflicts is as nothing to the total mass devastation of inter­State wars? There are good reasons for this. To avoid emotionalism let us take two hypothetical countries: "Ruritania" and "Walldavia." If both Ruritania and Walldavia were dissolved into a libertarian society, with no government and innumerable private individuals, firms, and police agencies, the only clashes that could break out would be local, and the weaponry would necessarily be strictly limited in scope and devastation. Suppose that in a Ruritanian city two police agencies clash and start shooting it out. At worst, they could not use mass bombing or nuclear destruction or germ warfare, since they themselves would be blown up in the holocaust. It is the slicing off of territorial areas into single, governmental monopolies that leads to mass destructionfor then if the single monopoly government of Walldavia confronts its ancient rival, the government of Ruritania, each can wield weapons of mass destruction and even nuclear warfare because it will be the "other guy" and the "other country" they will hurt. Furthermore, now that every person is a subject of a monopoly government, in the eyes of every other government he becomes irretrievably identified with "his" government. The citizen of France is identified with "his" government, and therefore if another government attacks France, it will attack the citizenry as well as the government of France. But if Company A battles with Company B, the most that can happen is that the respective custom­ers of each company may be dragged into the battlebut no one else. It should be evident, then, that even if the worst happened, and a libertar­ian world would indeed become a world of "anarchy," we would still be much better off than we are now, at the mercy of rampant, "anarchic" nation-states, each possessing a fearsome monopoly of weapons of mass destruction. We must never forget that we are all living, and always have lived, in a world of "international anarchy," in a world of coercive nation-states unchecked by any overall world government, and there is no prospect of this situation changing.

A libertarian world, then, even if anarchic, would still not suffer the brutal wars, the mass devastation, the A-bombing, that our State-ridden world has suffered for centuries. Even if local police clash continually, there would be no more Dresdens, no more Hiroshimas.

But there is far more to be said. We should never concede that this local "anarchy" would be likely to occur. Let us separate the problem of police clashes into distinct and different parts: honest disagreements, and the attempt of one or more police forces to become "outlaws" and to extract funds or impose their rule by coercion. Let us assume for a moment that the police forces will be honest, and that they are only driven by honest clashes of opinion; we will set aside for a while the problem of outlaw police. Surely one of the very important aspects of protection service the police can offer their respective customers is quiet protection. Every consumer, every buyer of police protection, would wish above all for protection that is efficient and quiet, with no conflicts or disturbances. Every police agency would be fully aware of this vital fact. To assume that police would continually clash and battle with each other is absurd, for it ignores the devastating effect that this chaotic "anarchy" would have on the business of all the police companies. To put it bluntly, such wars and conflicts would be badvery badfor business. Therefore, on the free market, the police agencies would all see to it that there would be no clashes between them, and that all conflicts of opinion would be ironed out in private courts, decided by private judges or arbitrators.

To get more specific: in the first place, as we have said, clashes would be minimal because the street owner would have his guards, the store­keeper his, the landlord his, and the homeowner his own police company. Realistically, in the everyday world there would be little room for direct clashes between police agencies. But suppose, as will sometimes occur two neighboring home owners get into a fight, each accuses the other of initiating assault or violence, and each calls on his own police com­pany, should they happen to subscribe to different companies. What then? Again, it would be pointless and economically as well as physically self-destructive for the two police companies to start shooting it out. Instead, every police company, to remain in business at all, would an­nounce as a vital part of its service, the use of private courts or arbitrators to decide who is in the wrong.

....

http://www.mises.org/story/2429
D. R. ZINN

Tallpine

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2007, 03:06:42 PM »
Quote
In the case of a homeowner being robbed or at­tacked, then of course he will call on whichever police company he has been using. He will call Police Company A rather than "the police" he calls upon now.

In a really truly "free market" society, the homeowner would just call somebody with a backhoe Wink
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2007, 04:24:39 PM »
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The Police work for the people ultimately and for no other entity

Not exactly true.  There was a Supreme Court case many years ago where a police department was sued for failing to protect the plaintiff from a crime.  The ruling said, in effect, that the job of the police is not to protect any one individual, but to maintain order, of which solving and preventing crimes is only one part.  IOW, the police protect The People, but not any one person.

I'm afraid I don't remember the name of the case.

Of course, when a scumbag is coming into my house my concern for the social order drops in direct proportion to the increase in my selfish desires for personal protection.  rolleyes  It doesn't seem too farfetched to have for-pay alarm companies (like Brinks, say) to go from patrolling a neighborhood and responding to alarms to a more active crime response/investigation team on equal footing with local police.  If a private community with a HOA and community-specific rules of appearance and behavior is legal, why not truly privatized police?
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The Rabbi

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2007, 03:47:26 AM »
I do think a privatized fire dept would be a workable thing, though.  People could buy coverage pretty much like they do for alarms.  If someone had a fire and didnt have coverage, they could still call the fire dept and would be charged per trip or whatever.  If they couldn't pay then you would put a lien on the real estate.
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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2007, 06:51:11 AM »
I think we ought to differentiate or at least acknowledge that "privatization" can mean several things.

1. Gov't Contracting
Some level of gooberment contracts out to a private company to perform police functions.  Very similar to what many cities now do with trash collection.  The usual upside is better service at less cost and fewer gov't drones on the payroll.  The big question is if the company's employees get all the authority of LEOs or operate under the same rules as us peons.

2. Private Corp Contracting
Some non-governmental organization/community does as above.  HOAs or some such.

3. Private Citizen Contracting
Individuals contracting out individually for protection.

I see #1 as pretty easily do-able.  I would even fragment the functions further.  For instance, I would contract out the gov't & LEO IT & criminal database functions out to yet another company to manage, while the gov't owns the database & information. Same with jail facilities.

Option #2 would be more difficult.  I am in favor of pretty much any group of citizens being able to band together and do as they please, especially in the face of arrogant, large gov't interests.  An example would be a HOA/development incorporating so that a large city can't come u pand forcibly incorporate them to cherry-pick their tax base.  Here in Texas, darn near every school district, college, hospital, etc. can have its own police force.  I think HOAs & such ought to thave the same options, paving the way for #2.

Option #3 is the most problematic.
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roo_ster

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Tallpine

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2007, 07:17:36 AM »
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Option #3 is the most problematic.

And the only one that would really change anything.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2007, 08:30:41 PM »
#3 falls under the category of "Bodyguard" at present.  If for no reason other than liability I can't see bodyguards being given the same latitude of action as a LEO.  If we're talking about that level of privatization we might as well try to get all gun restrictions removed first, since it would end the need for nearly all of us to need to hire that kind of protection in the first place.
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Tallpine

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Re: An Argument for the Privatization of Police
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2007, 05:02:33 AM »
Exactly Wink
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin