Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: vaskidmark on September 05, 2013, 06:01:30 AM
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http://tinyurl.com/mr2rjqt
SAN FRANCISCO — A majority of California Supreme Court justices appeared reluctant Wednesday to grant a law license to Sergio Garcia, who graduated law school and passed the state's bar exam but has been living illegally in the United States for 20 years.
A federal law passed by Congress in 1996 bars immigrants in the country illegally from receiving "professional licenses" from government agencies or with the use of public funds unless state lawmakers specifically vote otherwise.
"Congress wanted political accountability," Justice Ming Chin said in expressing doubt the court could grant Garcia his license without a specific law enacted by the state Legislature.
Justice Goodwin Liu said it was "commonsensical" that Congress meant to include lawyer licenses in the law.
The five other justices on the court made similar comments, essentially arguing that the law bars them from making Garcia a lawyer unless the state Legislature acts.
The court has 90-days to rule in a case that has garnered national attention, putting the Obama administration against state officials who supported Garcia's application.
Outside of court, Garcia expressed optimism that the Supreme Court would rule in his favor despite the tough questions asked of the lawyers who spoke on his side during an hour of oral arguments.
If he does lose, Garcia vowed to continue fighting to become a California lawyer either through the state Legislature or in the federal courts.
"This is about trying to live the American Dream and showing other immigrants that hard work and dedication does mean something in this country," he said.
Somehow I have lived all this time laboring under the impression that even lawyers believed in the rule of law. Which is why this intereloper's actions irritate me. Three years in law school, learning all the theories and philosiophies about how and why the laws are the way they are, and the first thing you do is to try and not just evade but actively break the law. That's the kind of lawyer that I'm sure everybody will be lining up to retain - not.
That, and the fact that if he had been the 17-month old child of an American citizen who illegally entered Mexico he would get the same treatment from the Mexican government but there would be no army of professional advocates for his "right" to get a law license and practice law in Mexico, and the only public outcry would be over the fact that he had not yet been deported.
I agree that it sucks to be the "victim" of the illegal acts of your parents. But your argument ought to be with them, not with trying to evade the law even further. Take your law degree back to Mexico and see if they will give you a law license. Or go through the process of trying to become legal here.
stay safe.
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His loophole is that the bar is not gov
damn phone
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Apparently, he has applied for citizenship. Not really knowing much about immigration law, is there anything he can do to expedite the process?
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^^^ Yes.
Garcia first came to the U.S. with his family from Mexico when he was 17 months old. He returned to Mexico with his mother when he was 9 and came back eight years later and applied for citizenship in 1994, sponsored by his father, who is now an American citizenship.
Garcia estimates that it could take another five years for his application to be approved given the backlog of applications.
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I'm ok with this guy getting a pass. He tried to do things the correct way and is obviously an industrious person. We want people like him (regardless of the black mark of becoming a lawyer).
Chris
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The fact that illegal aliens are getting a driver’s license is absurd enough. But to complain about it because Dynam Messerschmitt BF109. properly identifies their legal status is simply beyond comprehension. I guess that, for the estimated 1.8 million illegal aliens, leaving the US is simply not an option. [ar15]
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Wait, you want to deport him in a classic Nazi airplane?
[popcorn]
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Do we have a resident Italian automotive mechanic now?
stay safe.
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Wait, you want to deport him in a classic Nazi airplane?
[popcorn]
You are going to have to wait for a long time for a response from Papini Guido as the ban hammer is quick.
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You are going to have to wait for a long time for a response from Papini Guido as the ban hammer is quick.
He just came to post the responses that others won't post.
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I'm ok with this guy getting a pass. He tried to do things the correct way and is obviously an industrious person. We want people like him (regardless of the black mark of becoming a lawyer).
Chris
There are many, many, thousands of people who are trying to do things the correct way. This guy is not one of them. The correct way is to go to the US Embassy in the country of your birth or citizenship and apply for a visa to go to the United States for school and/or for citizenship or residency. This is a guy who has cheated the system his entire life and has found yet another way to cheat the system and make a great living doing it.
How has he legally paid taxes for the last 20 years? He's committed crimes every year he has been in the US. Oh wait. This guy is probably an ideal candidate for becoming an attorney.
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There are many, many, thousands of people who are trying to do things the correct way. This guy is not one of them. The correct way is to go to the US Embassy in the country of your birth or citizenship and apply for a visa to go to the United States for school and/or for citizenship or residency. This is a guy who has cheated the system his entire life and has found yet another way to cheat the system and make a great living doing it.
How has he legally paid taxes for the last 20 years? He's committed crimes every year he has been in the US. Oh wait. This guy is probably an ideal candidate for becoming an attorney.
how do you imagine he avoided taxes?
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/undocumented-immigrants-taxes_n_3587378.html
http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html
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He did apply for citizenship in 1994 and is awaiting approval. He paid for his own education via his own means rather than asking for a handout.
The fact that he applied 19 years ago and is still waiting is testament to how screwed up our system is and why so many people enter illegally. Given his work ethic and intelligence (say what you will about lawyers, he did earn a law degree and passed the bar on the first try), I say grant him a green card while he waits for the citizenship process to complete. I'll take 20 of these guys over 1 "American" who does nothing but sponge off the system.
Chris
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+ eleventy, Chris.
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He did apply for citizenship in 1994 and is awaiting approval. He paid for his own education via his own means rather than asking for a handout.
The fact that he applied 19 years ago and is still waiting is testament to how screwed up our system is and why so many people enter illegally. Given his work ethic and intelligence (say what you will about lawyers, he did earn a law degree and passed the bar on the first try), I say grant him a green card while he waits for the citizenship process to complete. I'll take 20 of these guys over 1 "American" who does nothing but sponge off the system.
Chris
He applied for citizenship as an illegal alien. He's a criminal. He's sucking my tax dollars as I pay for him and his employer who aren't paying their fair taxes.
There are people who came here legally and have worked hard. But they're not allowed to go to school and train for new jobs. THey're given visas to come work and can't change careers or do anything to further themselves without losing their visas. They go home for vacation and can't get back. There are a lot of people who follow the law and are rejected every year. I have no interest at all in giving a break to a 20 year criminal over those who really are working hard and following the law and can't get in either.
Here's the right answer, taken from the article:
"Garcia is not qualified to practice law because he continually violates federal law by his presence in the United States," former State Bar prosecutor Larry DeSha said in one of the few "friend of the court" briefs filed opposing Garcia's licensing.
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Hasn't he missed at least one amnesty since then?
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I think the only amnesty was Reagan's in 1986 so that guy may not have been here at the time. The article isn't exactly clear on dates and facts - but then, articles promoting special privilege for criminals rarely are.
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The guy is an admitted felon. Can you be a lawyer and a felon?
Section 1325 [of Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part VIII]. [U.S. Code as of: 01/06/03]
Improper entry by alien
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
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The guy is an admitted felon. Can you be a lawyer and a felon?
Actually given the penalties specified in that section of the US Code, and the guidelines from this section (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3559), I'm fairly certain he's only guilty of a class B misdemeanor. If he got caught, deported, then came back in, then he's guilty of a class E felony (the least felonious class of felonies specified in Title 18). Criminal either way, though.
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It doesn't say caught and come back; it just says for a second offense.
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Pretty sure that for something to be legally a second offense, you would have to have been found guilty in a court of law of the first offense, which would require getting caught.
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The law says second offense, not second conviction. I'm pretty sure you'd be mistaken.
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My thought this morning is that I am tired of making exceptions to the law everytime someone comes up with a sob story. At some point, we need to set the law where it is and enforce it equally. The entire immigration law is mess because we set the law strictly on one hand and on the other we add in a multitude of exceptions and loopholes and allowances such that the law is impossible to enforce.
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The law says second offense, not second conviction. I'm pretty sure you'd be mistaken.
you would be pretty sure
you would also be VERY wrong
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you would be pretty sure
you would also be VERY wrong
Based on what precedent?
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https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/US/508/508.US.129.91-8199.html
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Well, the courts definitely, in that case, say he has to be convicted. Good for them. If a bank robber hasn't been convicted of a bank robbery, is he a felon?
If an American helps Al Qaeda but hasn't been convicted of treason is he a traitor?
You win the legal argument but we all know he's a felon.
fel•on1 (ˈfɛl ən)
n.
1. a person who has committed a felony
The guy is a serial criminal living off my tax dollars. I'll concede that hanging is not necessary in this case - though I wouldn't object to it. He definitely doesn't deserve to stay in the US any longer, to live off of the tax dollars of honest Americans, or to be licensed as an attorney at law.
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The guy is a serial criminal living off my tax dollars. I'll concede that hanging is not necessary in this case - though I wouldn't object to it. He definitely doesn't deserve to stay in the US any longer, to live off of the tax dollars of honest Americans, or to be licensed as an attorney at law.
[citation needed]
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What citation. He's admitted he's an illegal alien. How is he paying taxes legally? If he's not paying taxes then every time he walks on a sidewalk, he's living off my taxes.
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What citation. He's admitted he's an illegal alien. How is he paying taxes legally? If he's not paying taxes then every time he walks on a sidewalk, he's living off my taxes.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18077009/ns/business-personal_finance/t/illegal-immigrants-filing-taxes-more-ever/#.Ujagm8Ywero
The IRS issues Taxpayer ID numbers to Illegals, and collects taxes. Has for years. In addition CA has a sales tax, property taxes, fuel taxes and other sundry taxes that either are added to daily bills, or are tracked and paid without tying to a SSN.
He might be a tax cheat, but you're the one who made an accusation so [citation needed].
*This is not to say he should get a law license, but rather I dislike unsupported hyperbole. Although this case would seem to highlight problems with our immigration policy.
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Wow. I admit I didn't know that one. Hadn't heard it in years of calling all illegal aliens tax cheats. I know plenty of employers and illegal aliens who are, in fact, tax cheats but I can no longer say they all are.
Live and learn.
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Yeah, credit goes to CSD on that one. He threw up some links in a similar argument several years ago and I learned about the taxpayer ID's.
It makes a twisted kind of sense from the IRS' point of view; They aren't getting deported, you might as well get the taxes.
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Wait until you find out that illegal aliens are supporting you on Social Security: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html
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Yeah, credit goes to CSD on that one. He threw up some links in a similar argument several years ago and I learned about the taxpayer ID's.
It makes a twisted kind of sense from the IRS' point of view; They aren't getting deported, you might as well get the taxes.
Yeah, but not all susnshine & roses, as the agencies involved have become corrupt by not prosecuting very obvious violations of tax law, immigration law, and identity theft (when TIN & SSN mismatch) for a little bit of money. Emphasis on little (see below). Retail individual corruption: "The man is a swine!" Wholesale institutional corruption: "Where is that humanitarian of the year award?"
Wait until you find out that illegal aliens are supporting you on Social Security: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html
Yeah, not so much. Oh, I have no doubt such payments exist, but they are a pittance. And if they are amnestied, Social Security will be even worse off.
The fact is, the wealth/income/GDP bump that a country might get from illegal immigration into the USA is minuscule. They just plain are not productive enough and have too few skills. Subtract their contribution to GDP and you would be hard-pressed to notice the difference relative to any rounding errors. ("Hey, these GDP numbers are different. Did you leave out the contribution of illegal aliens?" "Nope, I just used the correct number of significant digits this time.") Oh, those whose business plan relies on illegal immigrant helot labor would howl, but the impact at the grocery store would be a couple cents/head of lettuce, easily swamped by a bump in fuel prices.
And the first time the illegal gets injured and goes to the county hospital, their first anchor baby is born, the first semester their anchor baby goes to school, the first time they get a DWI and sit it out in jail, and suchlike, all those tax dollars are burned & more.
In 2009, the last year for which figures are available, employers reported wages of $72.8 billion for 7.7 million workers who could not be matched to legal Social Security numbers.
In 2009, US GDP was ~$14trillion or ~$14000billion(1). Reported wages of presumable illegals in 2009 was 0.0052 of the US GDP. That is 0.52% of GDP. A half of a percent.
In 2009, the budget outlays for just Social Security was $949.4B(2). 12.4% of $72.8B is $9B, or 0.95% of the SS budget for 2009.
Assuming that half of illegals pay SStax, we would need another 140million illegals in the USA in 2009 to cover 2009's SS obligations.
That math only gets worse from there. IOW, don;t expect to keep SS solvent with illegal alien tax receipts.
(1) Why the "~"? Because depending on the source, 2009 GDP swings from a smidge below $14B to $14.5B. I chose $14B to make the illegal alien contribution as large as possible. http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_2000_2010USb_14s2li011lcn__US_Gross_Domestic_Product_GDP_History
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget
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Whether some pay some taxes or not, many do not pay. Many employers illegally hire them - and it is still illegal to do so. I am usually rebutted at this point by saying that the employer can't do a background check and if the illegal alien provides the documents required by an I-9 then how can you blame them. But many employers are paying cash under the table - actually for citizen employees as well as illegal aliens. Those employers know what they're doing.
Personally, I don't care if some or most of what I buy gets more expensive in order to protect our borders and American labor.
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http://www.npr.org/2013/10/08/230320902/calif-law-allows-undocumented-immigrants-to-practice-law?ft=1&f=1001
Mr. Garcia should be admitted to the California Bar soon. A new California state law was passed to allow for this.
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Wait until you find out that illegal aliens are supporting you on Social Security: http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2017113852_immigtaxes29.html
That would be nice except that the IRS is sending Tax refunds to illegals and doens't bother to question the dozen or more dependents they claim.
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/06/18/the-irs-immigration-fraud-scan
#3 on the scandal list.
I really doubt illegals are a net positive to taxes. They couldn't really claim that unless they know who they are in the first place.
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I understand that California has also given illegal aliens the right to vote in local elections.
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And I don't care if illegal aliens are supporting me on Social Security. The Social Security trust fund is owed so much money from the federal government that I don't need to worry - except they'll never pay it back. When they say SS is in the red, they are saying that spend is greater than current-year receipts, not that spend is greater than what has been received.
I'm ok with honest hard times for me and for the nation. We'll all survive it. I'm not ok with selling out my ethical or moral beliefs so that I can get a few more of my own dollars back from the federal government.