Is there childcare available in your area?

[MillCreek]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/you-should-get-on-a-waiting-list-seattles-child-care-crunch-takes-toll-on-parents-providers/

Most of us are long past the age where we needed childcare, but I was interested to read this article about the crunch in the Seattle area. When my first wife and I had our two kids back in the late 80's, it was difficult for us to find it, and when both kids were in day care/after school care, that bill was our second-largest monthly expense after the mortgage.  In the Seattle area, it is the norm for both members of a couple to work, and you have to crunch the numbers to see if it makes sense to pay for childcare vs. someone staying home and does that mean you can no longer afford to live where you are.

[lupinus]

I have several friends where after spawning one spouse either stayed home till kids are in school, or at most taking a part time job until then, as it would cost more for child care than they'd bring home. Or at least close enough that it just didn't make it worth the difference.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[K Frame]

Beats the hell out of me. I don't have kids, so I don't give a squat about child care.

I do, however, care about doggy daycare, and that is available near me. Seren goes to doggy day care at a place about a quarter mile from my office.

[dogmush]

And yet poor people all over the country continue to have kids.  I'm not being sarcastic, someone cares for those kids.  The single mom working 65 hrs a week in a salon downtown isn't forking over ~$2k a month for daycare.  Neither is the couple in the trailer park whose dad is a trucker and mom works at Dollar General.

I wonder if that article is similar in it's myopia to the articles about how poor folks can't cook because they don't have copper pans and EVOO.

Is childcare unavailable?  Or is the super-awesome, free-range, organic childcare you WANT for your precious unavailable?

[Fitz]

And yet poor people all over the country continue to have kids.  I'm not being sarcastic, someone cares for those kids.  The single mom working 65 hrs a week in a salon downtown isn't forking over ~$2k a month for daycare.  Neither is the couple in the trailer park whose dad is a trucker and mom works at Dollar General.

I wonder if that article is similar in it's myopia to the articles about how poor folks can't cook because they don't have copper pans and EVOO.

Is childcare unavailable?  Or is the super-awesome, free-range, organic childcare you WANT for your precious unavailable?

This.

[BlueStarLizzard]

And yet poor people all over the country continue to have kids.  I'm not being sarcastic, someone cares for those kids.  The single mom working 65 hrs a week in a salon downtown isn't forking over ~$2k a month for daycare.  Neither is the couple in the trailer park whose dad is a trucker and mom works at Dollar General.

I wonder if that article is similar in it's myopia to the articles about how poor folks can't cook because they don't have copper pans and EVOO.

Is childcare unavailable?  Or is the super-awesome, free-range, organic childcare you WANT for your precious unavailable?

As someone who grew up in the demographic you are discussing, the quality of under the table childcare can leave A LOT to be desired. It's there, but it can range from really good to child warehousing. And it's still not cheap.

Even a crappy daycare would have been better than a lot of the "babysitters" my mother could afford.  

True story. The reason I can't take scary movies is because the teenage daughters of one of my babysitters literally forced me to watch a Freddie Kruger movie when I was about 4 years old. She would scream at me if I shut my eyes and threw stuff at me when I tried to turn away and hide in the couch. All because she thought it was funny that I was scared of the movie.

[dogmush]

And I don't discount that there are some really bad choices out there.

Additionally, anecdotally, I think that dual income, dual degreed "professional" couples are more likely to be away from home than the poorer demographic.  If you only moved down the street from your parents and siblings, there's more family help available than the couple in the story who flew Grandpa to Seattle from Texas.

I know from friends, in FL at least, the regulatory burden to do "childcare" is very high.  Several friends of mine, when they decided to have one person stay at home and watch the kids started the idea that that parent could watch a few (~4) children of friends and kid's classmates to offset the cost of lost income.  FL made that practically impossible to do between required classes, certifications, inspections and the like.  Weird crap like you can't watch kids in your home unless it is fully ADA compliant, even if the kids aren't disabled.  Just tons of regulations.*

One friend actually had to an issue after a divorce.  His mom (retired) watched his kids after school, no problem.  However, the divorce decree had a part in it about child care expenses, and since some of Ex-Wife's child support was ostensibly for child care, and Grandma was providing said childcare, Grandma was a "Child Care Professional, Unlicensed" according to DHS.  He had to find paid for after school care.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I suspect it's a combination of Parents tempering their expectations, and society making sure that our agencies regulating childcare are working in our best interests.


*I'm sure that some of those regs are a good idea, and some of them are written in Kid's blood.  I'm not saying it should just be a free-for-all at day care, but taken as a whole you realistically can't have a Day Care unless it's a ~40 kid business.  Not a lot of folks want to do that, which is where the under the table stuff BSL mentioned comes in.

[K Frame]

DC is the same way. In fact, recently there was an news article that DC gov. learned of toddler play group, not even a day care, just parents. Parents don't even pay; it meets in the basement of a community church.

Yet a DC gov dept. issued an edict that the play group had to hire a full-time staff member with a degree in early childhood education.

https://wtop.com/dc/2018/11/dc-play-group-for-2-year-olds-challenged-by-bureaucracy/

The whole thing caused quite a ruckus, and DC council is moving to exempt informal play groups from the regulations.

[MillCreek]

Somewhat on point to the regulatory burden: from my risk management journals, I see the liability insurance for childcare/daycare providers is expensive.  It also used to be hard to find, since a lot of companies did not want to write the coverage, but that has loosened up in recent years.

[makattak]

Just reposting some information from other threads...:




All while median income is basically flat since 2000.

AND while childcare is getting more expensive, if available.

AS NOTED, a lot of that expense is government enforced. Whether intended or not, they are making it more expensive to raise a family.

SO, more data!

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/17/611898421/u-s-births-falls-to-30-year-low-sending-fertility-rate-to-a-record-low

Gee... I wonder why that is.

[brimic]

Just reposting some information from other threads...:




All while median income is basically flat since 2000.

AND while childcare is getting more expensive, if available.

AS NOTED, a lot of that expense is government enforced. Whether intended or not, they are making it more expensive to raise a family.

SO, more data!

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/17/611898421/u-s-births-falls-to-30-year-low-sending-fertility-rate-to-a-record-low

Gee... I wonder why that is.

At one point in time, my ex-wife and I were considering one of use quitting our job.
Day care cost for my 2 kids was over $17,000/year, and that wasn't even full time.
Its weird how 2 people with really good jobs spend a significant portion of their income on child care, have to budget carefully and are financially unable to have more kids,   yet there are a lot of people out there with no jobs with multiples of that number of kids.

[cordex]

Its weird how 2 people with really good jobs spend a significant portion of their income on child care, have to budget carefully and are financially unable to have more kids,   yet there are a lot of people out there with no jobs with multiples of that number of kids.

Why is it weird?
Child care - done well - is hard, very personnel intensive, and requires the right kind of personnel.  Child care done poorly is much easier and cheaper to accomplish. Also, as has been pointed out, successful people are also more likely to move away from family or have family with interests outside of caring for related kids. If someone has local grandparents or other family handy then your child care might be free or nearly so, and if someone is willing to send their kids to suboptimal or gray market care facilities then the price is much lower than you have to pay.

My wife and I decided care of our kids was way too important a job to farm out and we’ve made sacrifices so that she can do that.

[brimic]

Why is it weird?
Child care - done well - is hard, very personnel intensive, and requires the right kind of personnel.  Child care done poorly is much easier and cheaper to accomplish. Also, as has been pointed out, successful people are also more likely to move away from family or have family with interests outside of caring for related kids. If someone has local grandparents or other family handy then your child care might be free or nearly so, and if someone is willing to send their kids to suboptimal or gray market care facilities then the price is much lower than you have to pay.

My wife and I decided care of our kids was way too important a job to farm out and we’ve made sacrifices so that she can do that.

I applaud this.


Anecdote time.
My Dad told me a story which happened about 6 months before he retired as a tool and die maker and was lamenting the low quality of the workers they were getting in as of late....
He told me he was out for a smoke break and was talking to an early 20-something woman who was a few months pregnant.
She told him that 'in another month (patting her belly) she'll have her fourth and won't need to work  anymore'

The system rewards people for being unwed with a gaggle of kids, often times with a middle class lifestyle from government assistance- all paid for by those who choose to be responsible and work hard.