Author Topic: Why is it...  (Read 6864 times)

Werewolf

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Why is it...
« on: March 13, 2008, 06:01:53 AM »
...that a person with a black parent and a white parent is considered black?

Is it just the legacy of a culture of racism.

Is it racist to say that a child of a white and black parent is black? Aren't they just as white? Why aren't they considered to be white?
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 06:06:12 AM »
Its the legacy of a culture that thinks we have to "make up" for the legacy of raciism.
If they were born in the US, they're not black.  They're not white.  They're American.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 07:00:11 AM »
Racial preference for those of mixed descent is determined by attitude, socio-economic advantage, political points, or whatever sells more ink/airtime.

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 07:03:04 AM »
Legally, in most states, the mother's ethnicity determins the child's ethnicity.
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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2008, 09:06:04 AM »
From back in the old days, (not condoning it, though) I'd say it has something to do with the offspring being a person "Of Color".  Although after spending a month or two in Kwajalein at a time, I had a pretty serious pigmentation thing going, myself. 
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Paddy

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 09:07:48 AM »
The affirmative action bennies are better?

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 10:02:05 AM »
The affirmative action bennies are better?
Ding ding!  Winner!

BridgeWalker

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 10:03:45 AM »
Considered black/white by whom?  For most things there's a mixed race/multi-racial box to check.

Werewolf

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 10:39:23 AM »
Considered black/white by whom?  For most things there's a mixed race/multi-racial box to check.

Uhhhhh...
The mainstream media?
Most Americans?

I spent a great deal of time in South America in the late 70's. They've got a word for every kind of mix possible. So if you're half white - half black then you're a mulato. Indian/Black something else. Indian/White is another. Asian/Black another and so on and so on. You're not black just because you've got some in ya like here in Uhhhmuricah.
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wooderson

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 10:45:01 AM »
Quote
...that a person with a black parent and a white parent is considered black?
What 'they're considered' depends entirely on where they are in relation to those around them.

In a local culture where everyone is black, the half-black/half-white individual will be reacted to in one way.
In a national culture where whites remain predominant, the half-black/white individual will most likely identify with and be identified as the minority group.

This is also applicable to other cultures, ethnicities, etc. - cf. half-Japanese kids by American parents (white, black or other) and their treatment in Japan.
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wooderson

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 10:46:52 AM »
Quote
Its the legacy of a culture that thinks we have to "make up" for the legacy of raciism.
If they were born in the US, they're not black.  They're not white.  They're American.
Well, they are black, or they are white - it's kind of hard to not have a skin color.

If you mean ethnically - 'they're not African-American,' etc. - you're also wrong. Ever heard 'Irish-American'? 'Italian-American'? 'Greek-American'?
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RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 10:47:47 AM »
Hyphenated-American is bull crap anyway. 

HankB

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 11:25:05 AM »
If you mean ethnically - 'they're not African-American,' etc. - you're also wrong. Ever heard 'Irish-American'? 'Italian-American'? 'Greek-American'?

Hyphenated-American is bull crap anyway. 

And now let's hear from a former President, noted author, and war hero, a man who won the Nobel Peace Prize when it still meant something, a man immortalized on Mount Rushmore . . .

Quote from: Theodore Roosevelt
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts "native" before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen.  . . .

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country.  . . . There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American.  . . .

For an American citizen to vote as a German-American, an Irish-American, or an English-American, is to be a traitor to American institutions; and those hyphenated Americans who terrorize American politicians by threats of the foreign vote are engaged in treason to the American Republic.
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wooderson

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 11:44:42 AM »
Teddy lecturing on ethnicity is... cute. Not a paragon of virtue when it came to equality and freedom, that one.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 06:34:09 PM »
Considered black/white by whom?  For most things there's a mixed race/multi-racial box to check.

I can't recall ever seeing a box for "mixed" or "bi-racial." There also isn't a box for WASP, so on occasion I have been known to check "Other."
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doczinn

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2008, 06:39:45 PM »
Quote
Legally, in most states, the mother's ethnicity determins the child's ethnicity.
Can someone tell me, coherently, just why in the hell we even have a legal ethnicity?
D. R. ZINN

RevDisk

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2008, 06:50:43 PM »
This is also applicable to other cultures, ethnicities, etc. - cf. half-Japanese kids by American parents (white, black or other) and their treatment in Japan.

That would be my cousins.  My uncle (half german, half italian) married a local girl when he was working in Japan.  Let's just say Japan is not kind or subtle about its feelings towards kids with mixed ethnicities.  They've since moved back to the States and my cousins made it clear hell would freeze over before they'd ever go back.  Heard plenty of stories of racism in Japan before, but hearing it from your little cousins makes it a bit more personal.


Quote
Can someone tell me, coherently, just why in the hell we even have a legal ethnicity?

Census, identification purposes, statistics.  When they call in my info for NICS check, they include hair color, height, eye color and ethnicity.   Plenty of good reasons.   
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De Selby

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2008, 06:54:58 PM »
Considered black/white by whom?  For most things there's a mixed race/multi-racial box to check.

Uhhhhh...
The mainstream media?
Most Americans?

I spent a great deal of time in South America in the late 70's. They've got a word for every kind of mix possible. So if you're half white - half black then you're a mulato. Indian/Black something else. Indian/White is another. Asian/Black another and so on and so on. You're not black just because you've got some in ya like here in Uhhhmuricah.

That's because of the old Spanish slave code-your legal rights were defined by such things.
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doczinn

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2008, 07:14:52 PM »
Quote
Census, identification purposes, statistics.  When they call in my info for NICS check, they include hair color, height, eye color and ethnicity.   Plenty of good reasons. 
And can you tell me why the census needs to consider ethnicity? Or why identification need consider a legal definition of ethnicity rather than appearance? Or why the statistics of ethnicity should be important? I don't see any good reasons.
D. R. ZINN

De Selby

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2008, 07:17:22 PM »
Quote
Census, identification purposes, statistics.  When they call in my info for NICS check, they include hair color, height, eye color and ethnicity.   Plenty of good reasons. 
And can you tell me why the census needs to consider ethnicity? Or why identification need consider a legal definition of ethnicity rather than appearance? Or why the statistics of ethnicity should be important? I don't see any good reasons.

It helps you track and identify areas of concern. 

For example, if you have a region where 100 percent of convictions are of blacks, or 100 percent of blacks are convicts, there's probably something going on that's worth looking into...if you're interested in civil rights, anyway.
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Tecumseh

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2008, 07:19:41 PM »
Considered black/white by whom?  For most things there's a mixed race/multi-racial box to check.

I can't recall ever seeing a box for "mixed" or "bi-racial." There also isn't a box for WASP, so on occasion I have been known to check "Other."
  Saxon and Protestant are not necessarily races. 

Irish is not a race but an ethnicity.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2008, 07:28:18 PM »
your cousins spoke the truth!
its usually a polite racism but it is intense.
interestingly enough a black man would have higher status in japan than i do as a 1/2 japanese.  they take the race mixing as a shameful thing. my neighbor grew up in the south and spent 10 years in japan. he came home and decided to go back since he was treate dbetter as a black man in japan that he was here. we used to chuckle about him being way more japanese than me.

RevDisk

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2008, 07:46:06 PM »
your cousins spoke the truth!
its usually a polite racism but it is intense.
interestingly enough a black man would have higher status in japan than i do as a 1/2 japanese.  they take the race mixing as a shameful thing. my neighbor grew up in the south and spent 10 years in japan. he came home and decided to go back since he was treate dbetter as a black man in japan that he was here. we used to chuckle about him being way more japanese than me.

The part that shocked me was how adults would treat 'half-breed' kids.  There are some things you DO NOT say to a child.  Any child, let alone a stranger's child. 

Yea, buddy of mine was black and spent some time in Japan.  Aside from people flat out staring and pointing, nothing that bad.  One time an Asian gentleman asked him for directions.  My buddy pointed to his skin and meantioned that he wasn't a local, he didn't know where anything was.  The other gentleman explained he was Korean.  He was asking my buddy to ask someone for directions.  Sure enough.  The gentleman asked my buddy the question, who relayed it to a local.  The Japanese wouldn't even acknowledge the Korean's presense, pretending he wasn't there or talking. 
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2008, 07:52:18 PM »
your buddy speaking japanese woulda impressed them.
its a shame how folks can be to kids.
you should see what happens to the mixed kids in  korea  sometimes just abandoned on the streets to fend for themselves  and subject to abuse that will make you grit your teeth

wooderson

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Re: Why is it...
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2008, 07:53:43 PM »
Quote
Irish is not a race but an ethnicity.
You've got that switched.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."