Rise in "accidental" gunshots blamed on new type of gun by LA county Sheriff

[Phyphor]

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sheriff-guns-20150614-story.html#page=1

One sheriff's deputy shot himself in the leg while pulling out his gun to confront a suspect.

Another accidentally fired a bullet in a restroom stall. A third deputy stumbled over a stroller in a closet as he was searching for a suspect, squeezing off a round that went through a wall and lodged in a piece of furniture in the next room.

Accidental gunshots by Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies have more than doubled in two years, endangering bystanders and occasionally injuring deputies. The jump coincides with the department's move to a new handgun that lacks a safety lever and requires less pressure to pull the trigger.
 

Sheriff's officials say that the increase in accidental discharges — from 12 in 2012 to 30 last year — occurred because deputies were adjusting to the new gun. They expect the numbers to fall in the years ahead. So far this year, the department has recorded seven accidental discharges, five of which involved the new weapon.

But the problems may not be over, as more deputies switch to the Smith & Wesson M&P9. In response, department officials have imposed extra training requirements.

The M&P has obvious benefits. It is easier to shoot accurately, can be fired more reliably under stress and is a better fit for people with small hands. The switch was prompted in part by the threat of a lawsuit by women who had failed the Sheriff's Academy. More recruits — including more women — are now passing the firearms test, and veteran deputies are also logging better scores at the firing range.

But the sharp increase in accidental discharges has prompted an investigation by the Sheriff's Department's new inspector general. Critics say this type of semiautomatic, which is widespread in law enforcement and includes the Glock used by many agencies, is too easy to misfire.
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8

At the New York Police Department, a rookie officer is facing criminal charges, including negligent homicide, in a fatal shooting in a housing project stairwell. An attorney for the officer says he accidentally fired his department-issued Glock.

A former Los Angeles Police Department officer who was paralyzed when his 3-year-old son shot him with a Glock has sued the gun manufacturer and others, alleging that the light trigger pull and lack of a safety mechanism contributed to the accident.

Bob Owens, editor of BearingArms.com, says the design of the Glock and the M&P makes such tragedies more likely. "I don't think, with the amount of training most agencies have, that a gun that has so few tolerances for mistakes is the best choice," he said.

More at the link.

Gee, let's blame the firearm and not the people who theoretically carry it in a professional manner.  Brilliant.

Can we say, "pass the buck?"

How about keeping your booger hook off the bang switch? Would that be a fun game?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

So they're using Smith M&P's now?  Nothing wrong with them.

What did they have before?

[BlueStarLizzard]

So they're using Smith M&P's now?  Nothing wrong with them.

What did they have before?

Berreta 92fs

They also note that LAPD did not have the same issue with a switch to the M&PS, surprise surprise, they were carrying Glocks.

I really wish the general public had a better understanding of just how incopentant these idiots really are.

[HankB]

I've spoken to police training officers and they're dismayed at the low quality of recruits, and their lack of interest in actually learning how to shoot. Sure, there are a few - VERY few - cops who are scary good shots. But the majority of rank-and-file officers probably wouldn't do better than "Novice" class at (for example) an IDPA match.

And of course, it wouldn't surprise me if training time and dollars formerly spent on firearms proficiency is now spent on gender, ethnic, and illegal alien sensitivity training.

So it doesn't surprise me that there are more negligent discharges.

[MechAg94]

Police officer is not the best paying job in a lot of places, certainly until you get more experience.  However, I don't know how it compares to other skilled or semi-skilled jobs involving manual labor.

[BlueStarLizzard]

I've spoken to police training officers and they're dismayed at the low quality of recruits, and their lack of interest in actually learning how to shoot. Sure, there are a few - VERY few - cops who are scary good shots. But the majority of rank-and-file officers probably wouldn't do better than "Novice" class at (for example) an IDPA match.

And of course, it wouldn't surprise me if training time and dollars formerly spent on firearms proficiency is now spent on gender, ethnic, and illegal alien sensitivity training.

So it doesn't surprise me that there are more negligent discharges.

In all honesty, I don't even think they should have to be more than proficient (and by that, based on what they need for the job) at handling firearms. I recognize that they have a lot of other stuff to train on and be proficient at.
What gets me is a lot of them THINK they are super experts firearm masters because they passed their yearly proffeciency test on whatever handgun they carry and then talk down to someone like me (excuse you, officer? That's not actually how ballistics works, but thanks for trying)
It's the cocky *expletive deleted*it I don't like and it's the cocky *expletive deleted*it that probably leads to a lot of these NDs. 

[Perd Hapley]

I can imagine the shock and horror of Jane Q. Idiot, reading this article, discovering there are firearms without a "safety lever." 

[French G.]

Police officer is not the best paying job in a lot of places, certainly until you get more experience.  However, I don't know how it compares to other skilled or semi-skilled jobs involving manual labor.

I grossed 60 last year with 4 years on my skilled non-cop job. Last time a local city PD was hiring I could hope to start around 30. Overtime and side work is your only hope.

[Angel Eyes]

But they're the only ones professional enough to carry a Glock .40  Smith & Wesson M&P.

I can imagine the shock and horror of Jane Q. Idiot, reading this article, discovering there are firearms without a "safety lever." 

Speaking of safety levers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk

[K Frame]

Back in the late 1980s the Washington, DC, metro police dropped revolvers went to Glocks.

At the same time they were under a court order to increase hiring (you don't want to know how many of those were either criminals going in, or would become criminals once they got a badge), were suffering through severe budget shortages, and crime levels were going through the roof, fueled mainly by crack.

Training standards were reduced significantly, and the result was a huge spike in the number of accidental/negligent officer involved shootings, more than a few of them involving serious injury or death.

The Washington Post did a pretty good series of articles on the problem in 1998. This is the first of the five articles: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/dcpolice/deadlyforce/police1page1.htm

It's a 5 day series, and all of them are available in that link above.

The Post, for once, didn't blame the gun, it laid the blame with the city, with the police department, with the training requirements, etc.

[vaskidmark]

Darn!  I was hoping for something dealing with cops shooting themselves while disassembling striker-fired pistols.

Safety lever, schmaftey lever.  Whatever became of "Don't put your booger hook on the bang switch until you are ready to shoot" and "Is that your reflection in a mirror or a BG?  Are you sure?"

There is only so much a firearms instructor can do in the allotted time when they are not allowed to use batons (and especially head strikes).  Cracking Officer Snuffy up side the head would be for the children.  "Do it for the chilluns!"

stay safe.

[KD5NRH]

So they're using Smith M&P's now?  Nothing wrong with them.

IMO, they just went with the wrong generation of M&Ps.  The old ones were a lot more appropriate for the skill level of the average cop.

[Angel Eyes]

The old ones were a lot more appropriate for the skill level of the average cop.

[Perd Hapley]

This is why Barney kept his ammo in his pocket.

[vaskidmark]

This is why Barney kept his ammo in his pocket.

Barney kept his ammo in his pocket because Andy made him.

http://www.mayberry.info/history/index.php?title=Barney_Fife

County records document that Sheriff Taylor issued Barney his gun in August, 1953 when he gave Barney his oath of office as his deputy.

One major concern of the Sheriff is Barney's lack of ability to handle a firearm safely. After numerous misfires of his police issue Colt .38 Special revolver, Andy restricted Barney to carrying only one bullet in his shirt pocket with the gun unloaded. Barney was told the bullet was only to be used "in case of an emergency."

The bullet, however, seems to find its way back into the gun fairly regularly resulting in Barney accidentally firing a shot into the floor or the ceiling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsg0EvZozI

Friend of mine lives in Mt. Airy, NC.  There's a guy who goes around reenacting Barney.  He can be counted on to whip that cartridge out of his left breast pocket, stick it almost right under your nose, and tell you all sorts of stories about him and "Baby".

stay safe.

[Perd Hapley]

Um, yeah, I've seen the show.  Thanks, I guess.

[dogmush]

So slight thread necro:


I stumbled across (linked from another forum) the following PDF where the LA Sheriff conducts a study on these ND's:

https://oig.lacounty.gov/Portals/OIG/Reports/Unintended%20Discharge%20Report.pdf

Among the gems where they blame equipment for their training failures is this description of an ND from page 20 "Contributing Factor: Weapons Light Activation Related Errors":

A deputy was inexplicably directing traffic with the weapon-mounted light rather than with a flashlight as trained by the LASD. The deputy discharged one round while doing so.

I think I've found the problem......

[MechAg94]

Wow.  No one called 911 about him waving his gun around?

[Ben]

A deputy was inexplicably directing traffic with the weapon-mounted light rather than with a flashlight as trained by the LASD. The deputy discharged one round while doing so.

Holy hell.

[roo_ster]

Holy hell.

There are not enough facepalms on the internet.

[K Frame]

Wow! I missed this latest gem!

I love it!

Just about as much as I love the story about the rabidly anti-gun sheriff (can't remember where) blasting a hole in himself because he had an "accidental" discharge.

[lee n. field]

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sheriff-guns-20150614-story.html#page=1

More at the link.

Gee, let's blame the firearm and not the people who theoretically carry it in a professional manner.  Brilliant.

Can we say, "pass the buck?"

How about keeping your booger hook off the bang switch? Would that be a fun game?

Not the first time this has come up in recent months.  I wonder if this is the latest attempt to "hack the narrative".

[French G.]

I watched a DHS guy shoot a match with an almost perfect Nd proof cop gun, an Hateyouandyousuck&K DAO .45. Or it could be argued that his every shot was an Nd for the targets got off pretty unscathed.

[sanglant]

 


http://www.inforum.com/content/sheriff-laney-says-deputys-eight-day-suspension-fitting-accidently-discharging-gun-cass


God save us from our "betters"

[Perd Hapley]

http://www.inforum.com/content/sheriff-laney-says-deputys-eight-day-suspension-fitting-accidently-discharging-gun-cass


God save us from our "betters"

Laney said it hasn't been determined when the unpaid suspension will take place.

Does that mean it will never happen, or does that mean they waited until he had some extra cash saved up, and had a family vacation planned?