Rise in "accidental" gunshots blamed on new type of gun by LA county Sheriff

[TechMan]

Holy *expletive deleted*ing hell.

FIFY

[Scout26]

As I've stated before, http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=48083.msg979441#msg97944

Most cops view their sidearm as merely another piece of kit that they have to carry.  Very few are "Gun people".   In fact, when I was in the Army most of my soldiers were much better shots with their M16's/203's then with their 1911's.   I guess because we expect to use those more then our sidearms should the balloon go up.

Probably the worst was the BATFEIEIO.  Their "trainer" was the one guy in the office that hunted.  (which I was told was the reason he was picked to be the "trainer".)  They came out and did the "40 rounds down-range" thing.  Then he broke out his collection of hunting rifles and let his fellow ATFer's shoot them, while he grill venison steaks and burgers on the grill they brought out for the picnic they had when they were done "qualifying", which consisted of him signing off on the forms without even going down range and pulling/checking targets.  (We had to take them down and clean up the mess they left.    )

The Kane County SWAT team's "practice" consisted of mostly playing grabass, blasting off rounds as quickly as possible, driving around shooting from their up-armored Humvee, high-fiving each other when they actually hit a target, then shooting the *expletive deleted*it while eating the pizzas they had delivered out to the range from the local bar.

All the other shops I saw shoot did the "40 rounds and we're out here, make sure you put in for 8 hours of OT for today." Qualification standards.

The only agency that I saw actually do some real training was Northern Illinois University's police force^*.  They actually hired real trainers from several different companies (including Blackwater/Xe when they were in Northwest Illinois), and spent the entire day doing shoot and move with IDPA-like scenarios^#, most of which they were not shown/walked through prior to engaging.  Every scenario was a surprise to them.   They did AAR's with each officer/pair after each run, and out of earshot of those who had not shot the scenario.  They really did it the right way.  And they came out at least every two months for 2 days in row, so that every officer did it at least once.




^*-  For those that don't now, there was a mass shooting there on 14 Feb 2008.   It also happened to be the day I took representatives of  Chicago 2016 Olympic committee and USA Shooting on a tour of my club to be the Shooting Sports Venue, if Chicago had gotten the 2016 Olympics.  That was an omen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Illinois_University_shooting

^#- ASC has 13 different Rifle and Pistol ranges, so they would book 11 ranges for the (week)day, except for the one 50 yard range and the 100 yard range so that members could shoot rifle and pistol.

[HeroHog]

Back when I got my May Issue LA CHP in 94, I shot the same qualifying course the local Sheriff's officers had to shoot under the department's range officer/whatever ya call the head cheese for that, and did it with a $99 Norinco Tokarev scoring 95/100 never having had training for that sort of thing! I had to do strong/weak hand, barricade, one and two handed, close quarters combat, hip/point shooting, all timed and from at distances from 25 to 3 or 4 yards (CQCB). The guy was kinda ticked that a "civilian" out shot most of his officers with no experience on that type of course and with a cheap Chinese pistol.  

[TechMan]

I have a friend who is an officer with Cincinnati Police Department and he echos the same thing that scout says, most officers are not gun guys and view the gun as just a tool.

[MechAg94]

Well, a tool is something you learn how to use properly so I am not sure that is the right word choice. 

The comments from the board at the range I belong to is that police tend to make a mess and don't clean up after themselves.  There are some LEO's that are members (even few that are life members), but they don't let any of the local departments train there. 

[T.O.M.]

I'm going to throw this in the mix.  Budget constraints come into play here.  Money and time.  Our security guys had to shoot quals three times a year when I got hired on.  80-100 rounds.  Also required two days per year hand-to-hand and weapon retention back then.  Now, it's once a year of each, and the course of fire is no more than 50 rounds.  Why the change?  Cut costs.  Less ammo cost.  Less time away from work, so less paying for a sub at work while the employee is off at training.  Less overtime costs if training is on a day off or after work hours.   We have 10 guys, so the savings wasn't that great.  Around a thosand rounds of ammo and 30 work days.  It would be significant for a large agency.