Give a man a fish.....

[Strings]

Wow... I'm a redneck now?!?!? Where do I get my membership card, chew, beer, and pickup truck? :neener:


Why can I NOT take this guy seriously? A Shiner Bock says he posts at least one more time...

[grampster]

I love fishing.  Especially "trolling" for suckers.  heh heh.

[Art Eatman]

Sheesh!  I thought I gave a reasonable answer to his points, too!  The opening post did indeed come from a view that capitalism is a zero sum game, which is an idea which merits no respect whatsoever.

Art

[Guest]

Except Barbara; she was the only civil person I met here

See, I've been telling you all this all along.

[K Frame]

Obviously the ONLY reasonable answer to the "points" is total agreement.

But, given the evident fugue state that's been exhibited, you'd still be castigated.

[richyoung]

So what are you saying? Let people die in the street because they cant afford medical care?

Whose job is it to pay for their medical care?  Not mine - my job is to pay for MY medical care.  What makes "medical care" different from food, clothing, shelter, heat, or ANY OTHER commodity that is necessary for life?  HEalth care is NOT a "right" - a "right" is something a citizen should NOT BE PREVENTED from doing by the government - like voting, bearing arms, speaking freely, worshiping, etc.  One characteristic of a RIGHT is that ther exercise thereof, or failure to do so, doesn't prevent or enable SOMEONE ELSE from exercising the same right - health care, on the other hand, is a limited commodity - there are only so many doctors, x-ray machines, doses of flu vaccine - and when one is used, it can't simultaneously be used by others.  In a free, capatalist society, we let the market allocate resources.

Round up street urchins and shoot them?

How about rounding up the owners of the uterii that are popping these "street urchines" out, and making them 'fess up as to who their baby's daddy is - followed by DNA confirmation and either child support or imprisonment WITHOUT conjugal visits?  Might convince them to "wrap it before they slap it"  Top it off with involuntary sterilization for the second offense - NOBDY has a "right" to indiscriminantly bring puppies and kittens, much less children, into this world.

 

Let the rich who get richer live in their walled communities with their own police and schools while outside the 99 out of a hundred other people live in cardboard boxes?

...and the lepoard's spots are revealed...

If that is what you want move to Brazil.

How about YOU move to North Korea, Cuba, or some other such "worker's paradise"?  I hear they still have a few million job openings in Cambodia after the "downsizing" under Pol Pot...

The extreme right wants the U.S. to be Brazil North.

...notice how it's always the "extreme right" - especially if you want a limited government that actually OBEYS its Constitution...

 

There is a big lie that poor people are dragging this country down; the truth is it is the ultra-rich who are transforming America.

14-30 million illegal immigrants + the native-born free riders have NO EFFECT...sure...

If you doubt that look at your heating oil bill this winter, the price of food in the grocery store, and check out who is making EVERYTHING you buy in the stores (it is not Americans). Open your eyes.

My eyes are OPEN - SLOW DAY ON THE bERKELY CAMPUS?

[K Frame]

I believe that Lifer has found out that life isn't forever...

[griz]

Returning to the topic:

I've been thinking of posting part of an FDR speech for comment, but it fits in this thread quite well. He outlined the "four freedoms". They are

Freedom of speech and expression
Freedom of every person to worship God in his own way
Freedom from want
Freedom from fear

Now he was talking about these things in a global context, which makes it even more bold. But I think the last two sum up the differences in point of view that people have when it comes to actual "freedom". I believe freedom means freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't adversely impact others. Very importantly, it doesn't require anybodies help, and most importantly, it includes the freedom to fail. Others view freedom in a more paternal FDR way, as freedom from problems. With that route, please note that the last two freedoms may well require help, voluntary or otherwise, from others. If you require someone to give a percentage of their wealth to subsidize another citizens needs (alleviating their "wants"), does that take away from the first citizens freedom? I believe it does, and further think the constitution supports that belief.

So in answer to the question, let the I dont wanna fish crowd do without. Eventually they will either learn to fish, figure out a new way of feeding the world and get rich, or starve. I submit that the first two options are better for the reluctant fishermen than teaching them to be beggars. The fact that the country benefits is a bonus.

[Shalako]

I totally agree griz. The strange contrast is that in the old days, no one would have thought that they owe the guy any fish. Now days for some reason, if the guy won't fish to feed himself, popular culture seems to think that those with the fish owe some to the ambitionless. (kind of counter-Darwinian)

I should have freedom from having to work too hard.
Or freedom from slow internet connections.
Maybe freedom from being annoyed by rude juvenile twits online.

Those would be some pretty wimpy freedoms though. And freedom was never meant to be wimpy. Quite the opposite.

[Guest]

Or the credit you deserve!

(my personal radio peeve phrase.)

[K Frame]

Ah, the 4 Freedoms Speech, delivered as part of FDR's State of the Union address in January 1941. Most people are familiar with it simply because of the Norman Rockwell paintings which were used to support war bond sales during the war. Unbelievably effective propaganda.




Of the four, the two best known are probably Freedom of Speech and Freedom from Want.

The Saturday Evening Post ran them in 1943 or so after Rockwell's offer to donate the images to the War Department was inexplicably ignored.

All four of those images hung in my Grandparent's house up until Grandpa's death in 1996.

[atek3]

My eyes are OPEN - SLOW DAY ON THE bERKELY CAMPUS?

I went to UC-Berkeley... not everyone there is a commie (the rest are facists  )

atek3