Author Topic: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....  (Read 6613 times)

Bigjake

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Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« on: June 19, 2008, 01:49:50 AM »
I'm giving it less than 2 weeks before the Palis see something they just can't resist shooting at/mortaring/blowing up, and then blaming it on the Izzies.  rolleyes

 anybody else want to venture a guess?  If we were all close in meatspace, I'd say 5 bucks gets you a guess, closest wins, and if the truce actually went unbroken, we donate the money to shootin student  CAIR.

Nitrogen

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 03:35:31 AM »
Two weeks?
My, you're an optimist.

btw, totally unrelated, but made me think:
יזכר לא עד פעם
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Manedwolf

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 03:55:02 AM »
If Hamas people stop pinging rockets at the Israelis, the Israelis have no reason to make incursions. It's that simple.

Nitrogen

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 04:15:02 AM »
Not true.

If you don't play the victim card, people might see how corrupt you are, and how bad of a deal you're giving the people, and they might not decide to support you anymore.
יזכר לא עד פעם
Remember. Never Again.
What does it mean to be an American?  Have you forgotten? | http://youtu.be/0w03tJ3IkrM

Bigjake

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 04:32:10 AM »
Not true.

If you don't play the victim card, people might see how corrupt you are, and how bad of a deal you're giving the people, and they might not decide to support you anymore.

Or if you stop acting like immature barbaric animals, helos wouldn't rain death on the house that you're causing said mischief from, and there wouldn't be any "Innocent women and children slaughtered by EEEVIL warmongers!!".


MicroBalrog

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 04:32:53 AM »
Not all the people the IDF shoots at are terrorists.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Manedwolf

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 04:35:43 AM »
Not all the people the IDF shoots at are terrorists.

Yes. Because Hamas likes to put rocket launchers atop occupied structures, then blame Israel when a strike on the rocket launcher kills people below it.

It's called "human shields". They're even proud of it.

Bigjake

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2008, 04:38:04 AM »
Not all the people the IDF shoots at are terrorists.

Sometimes innocents die because the folks around them fight dirty.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2008, 04:39:14 AM »
I did not mean that.

For example, the IDF recently shot up a car with two Israeli security guards on it. And by shot up I mean "put several hundred rifle rounds into the front of the car, and then called in aerial support."

More importantly, Palestinians often try to illegally cross the border, to work, to steal, or to attack soldiers (outside Hamas, various minor groups also dabble in these activities).

Either way, they sometimes get shot up. As they damn well should.

So scenario:

Palestinian approaches border fence, Army shoots him a few dozen times once he's within ten meters of the fence. Hamas cries foul and makes with the rocket launches. We all return to stage A.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Bigjake

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2008, 04:44:05 AM »
lousy cycle to be stuck in, but whose fault is that?

MicroBalrog

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2008, 04:46:44 AM »
lousy cycle to be stuck in, but whose fault is that?

Amazingly enough, Bigjake, while obviously the Hamas are bad guys, I don't hold the view that the Palestinians in general are to blame.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Jamisjockey

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2008, 06:23:26 AM »
I give it three days.  Five at the outside, before someone either blows themselves up or fires a rocket.
JD

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Manedwolf

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2008, 06:43:02 AM »
lousy cycle to be stuck in, but whose fault is that?

Amazingly enough, Bigjake, while obviously the Hamas are bad guys, I don't hold the view that the Palestinians in general are to blame.

And when someone sets up a rocket launcher in their neighborhood, do they:

A) Go out en masse and push it over and yell at the Hamas people to go away
B) Take out a rifle and shoot the people setting it up before the return fire kills their neighbors
C) Do absolutely freaking NOTHING, quite often in tacit or even blatant support?

Desertdog

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2008, 08:10:18 AM »
Quote
I'm giving it less than 2 weeks before the Palis see something they just can't resist shooting at/mortaring/blowing up, and then blaming it on the Izzies.
It is more like, how soon they can re-arm, get better arms,  set up better hiding places and more fortified positions.

We must remember they have only been after the Israelies for about 4000 years, and is not likely to change their mind now.

Scout26

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2008, 09:36:48 AM »
48 hours tops before some Pali yells "Allah Akbar" and drops a round in the mortar tube, launches a rocket/RPG or pushes the big red button on his/her homicide vest. 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
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Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Bigjake

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2008, 12:14:41 PM »
lousy cycle to be stuck in, but whose fault is that?

Amazingly enough, Bigjake, while obviously the Hamas are bad guys, I don't hold the view that the Palestinians in general are to blame.

I'm responding to your scenario there dude.
 
 Pali does something stupid/illegal/ both at a border fence, and gets darwined for his trouble.  Hamas considers lobbing mortars at random at civilians a measured response??   shocked

Maned nailed it, Palestinians in general ARE the problem.  When you vote the badguys into power, you're partly to blame when they do badguy things.


De Selby

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2008, 02:45:18 PM »
lousy cycle to be stuck in, but whose fault is that?

Amazingly enough, Bigjake, while obviously the Hamas are bad guys, I don't hold the view that the Palestinians in general are to blame.

I'm responding to your scenario there dude.
 
 Pali does something stupid/illegal/ both at a border fence, and gets darwined for his trouble.  Hamas considers lobbing mortars at random at civilians a measured response??   shocked

Maned nailed it, Palestinians in general ARE the problem.  When you vote the badguys into power, you're partly to blame when they do badguy things.



It's not always about being near the border fence:

Sometimes the rockets get lobbed in retaliation for IDF troops shooting a 9 year old girl, or blowing up a family on the beach.

So the retaliation isn't always predicated on IDF shootings of criminals; sometimes it's predicated on IDF killings of little girls and families. 
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

Scout26

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2008, 03:03:10 PM »
lousy cycle to be stuck in, but whose fault is that?

Amazingly enough, Bigjake, while obviously the Hamas are bad guys, I don't hold the view that the Palestinians in general are to blame.

I'm responding to your scenario there dude.
 
 Pali does something stupid/illegal/ both at a border fence, and gets darwined for his trouble.  Hamas considers lobbing mortars at random at civilians a measured response??   shocked

Maned nailed it, Palestinians in general ARE the problem.  When you vote the badguys into power, you're partly to blame when they do badguy things.



It's not always about being near the border fence:

Sometimes the rockets get lobbed in retaliation for IDF troops shooting a 9 year old girl, or blowing up a family on the beach.

So the retaliation isn't always predicated on IDF shootings of criminals; sometimes it's predicated on IDF killings of little girls and families. 

Ahh yes, those poor innocent Palistinian families playing at the beach when a carload of IDF soliders does a drive-by......  rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Bigjake

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2008, 03:25:48 PM »
You're late, SS.  I expected the 7th century barbarian apologist post much sooner.

grampster

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2008, 04:03:43 PM »
I remember in 1974 my brother and I had our kids on a day trip to Cedar Point.
The five of us were on a coaster and two young men of middle eastern descent were in the car behind us.  I remember when the ride was over, my brother and I both were yucking it up about the two young men who along with the rest of us had been noisily enjoying the ride.  The young men were ululating in the customary stereotypical movie Arab fashion. 

We both humorously remarked that we were lucky the ride did not blow up.
Thirty four years later, nothing much has changed regarding stereotypes and who goes around blowing up people and things with strap on explosives.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

taurusowner

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2008, 04:41:28 PM »
The problem is, it doesn't even matter if by some miracle, 99% of Hamas fighters actually keep the cease fire.  It only takes one or two nutjobs with a cheap Soviet mortar to start thing all over again.  A few Hamas crazies break the cease fire, the IDF responds, and the rest of Hamas sees this as the IDF breaking the ceasefire.  Rinse repeat.

The only thing that can solve this is if internal pro-peace elements of Hamas take over the organization and eliminate and punish those who continue attacks.

Manedwolf

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2008, 04:58:51 PM »

It's not always about being near the border fence:

Sometimes the rockets get lobbed in retaliation for IDF troops shooting Pailis shooting into the air, and the bullets coming down in a parabola killing a 9 year old girl in a way they can blame in Israelis, or , or blowing up a family on the beach. that was making bombs in their house blowing themselves up.

So the retaliation isn't always predicated on IDF shootings of criminals; sometimes it's predicated on IDF killings of little girls and families expendible human shields blamed on the IDF. 

FTFY.

The only thing that can solve this is if internal pro-peace elements of Hamas take over the organization and eliminate and punish those who continue attacks.

Being that one of Hamas' principal goals itself is wiping Israel off the map, how's that work again?

De Selby

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2008, 05:11:28 PM »
lousy cycle to be stuck in, but whose fault is that?

Amazingly enough, Bigjake, while obviously the Hamas are bad guys, I don't hold the view that the Palestinians in general are to blame.

I'm responding to your scenario there dude.
 
 Pali does something stupid/illegal/ both at a border fence, and gets darwined for his trouble.  Hamas considers lobbing mortars at random at civilians a measured response??   shocked

Maned nailed it, Palestinians in general ARE the problem.  When you vote the badguys into power, you're partly to blame when they do badguy things.



It's not always about being near the border fence:

Sometimes the rockets get lobbed in retaliation for IDF troops shooting a 9 year old girl, or blowing up a family on the beach.

So the retaliation isn't always predicated on IDF shootings of criminals; sometimes it's predicated on IDF killings of little girls and families. 

Ahh yes, those poor innocent Palistinian families playing at the beach when a carload of IDF soliders does a drive-by......  rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

Yes, that this has happened is actually well documented. 

That doesn't mean that every Hamas rocket attack is the result of attacks on innocent people or little kids; only some of them.

The first suicide bombing campaign, for example, was in response to the 1994 massacre by Baruch Goldstein in Hebron.  Of course later suicide bombing campaigns were for other reasons, but that was what Hamas was retaliating for in the first time.

The situation is much more complicated than "palistinians evil, israelis angels"
"Human existence being an hallucination containing in itself the secondary hallucinations of day and night (the latter an insanitary condition of the atmosphere due to accretions of black air) it ill becomes any man of sense to be concerned at the illusory approach of the supreme hallucination known as death."

roo_ster

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Rockets hit Israel, which says truce broken
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2008, 04:24:57 AM »
Less than a week.



JERUSALEM - Police say two Palestinian rockets hit southern Israel and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office says the cease-fire that took effect last week has been broken.
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Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld says the first rockets to hit since the truce landed in an open area and no one was hurt. There's no word on how Israel will react.

There has been no claim of responsibility for the rocket attack, which occurred hours after Israeli troops killed two Palestinians in a West Bank raid.

The West Bank is not formally part of the Gaza truce. But the Israeli raid could be perceived as violating the spirit of the cease-fire.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

JERUSALEM (AP)  Palestinians fired a mortar into southern Israel in the first violation of a fragile truce between Israel and Gaza Strip militants, the military said Tuesday.

No casualties or damage were reported in the attack, which took place around midnight Monday, and troops did not retaliate, the military said. No militant faction immediately took responsibility.

The Egyptian-brokered truce went into effect on Thursday, with the immediate aim of ending fighting that has killed seven Israelis and more than 400 Palestinians  many of them civilians  since the Islamic Hamas militants overran Gaza a year ago.

It also obliges Israel to ease a punishing blockade of the coastal strip. In a final stage, the sides are to address Hamas' demand to reopen a major border passage between Gaza and Egypt and Israel's insistence that Hamas release an Israeli soldier it has held for two years.

Egypt acted as middleman for the six-month truce because Israel, like much of the international community, shuns Hamas for refusing to recognize Israel or renounce violence.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert flew to Egypt on Tuesday for talks with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. The leaders are expected to discuss efforts to release the soldier, Sgt. Gilad Schalit, and Israel's demand that Egypt crack down on arms smuggling into Gaza.

Olmert was quoted on Tuesday in the London-based Al-Sharq Al-Awsat daily as saying that if the smuggling of weapons into Gaza did not end, then Israel would consider the cease-fire agreement violated, and "then we will be compelled to military action."

The cease-fire is meant to avert an Israeli invasion of Gaza, a tiny, impoverished seaside territory of 1.4 million people that Israel evacuated in 2005 after a 38-year military occupation. The deal extends beyond Hamas to all militant groups operating in Gaza but does not include the West Bank.

Early Tuesday, Israeli troops killed a senior Islamic Jihad commander in a raid in the West Bank town of Nablus.

A neighbor said a Palestinian bystander was also shot to death by troops when he opened the door of his apartment during the raid. The Israeli military said the man was a militant killed during a gunbattle with troops.

Islamic Jihad said the commander of its northern West Bank operations, Tarek Juma, was killed in the operation.

Juma was targeted because he was planning an attack on Israel, said a military official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, as is customary. The official said troops found explosive devices and munitions in his apartment at An Najah University.

Islamic Jihad vowed revenge.

"The reprisal for this noble blood will be in the depths of the Zionist entity, God willing," Islamic Jihad said in a statement from the West Bank.

In Germany, Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad condemned the operation. Fayyad, whose government is trying to negotiate a peace deal with Israel, has said continuing military operations are undermining his efforts to restore law and order in the West Bank.

This was "an example of the kind of activity that has to stop and has to stop immediately and promptly if we are going to succeed in providing security to our people," said Fayyad, who is attending an international conference aimed at bolstering his security forces. "There was absolutely no exchange of information on this particular incident."

In Gaza, Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum accused Israel of trying to sabotage the truce.

"The resistance factions in the West Bank have the full right to respond to this crime," Barhoum said.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Manedwolf

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Re: Isreal-Hamas truce starts today....
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2008, 04:27:00 AM »
Yeah. I figured it'd be about that short.

Until the Palis start knocking over the rocket launchers and beating down the Hamas people, until they stop tacitly approving, nothing will change.