US service member detained for allegedly shooting Afghan civilians

[wmenorr67]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/03/11/us-service-member-detained-for-allegedly-shooting-afghan-civilians-nato-says/

Can't wait for the "official" reason behind this person going off the deep end.  But this is not going to go well for those still there.

[Waitone]

If accurate, really bad news.

[wmenorr67]

Multiple sources are reporting it to include the BBC.  He went door to door shooting them.  They claim he snapped.  Ya think.

[vaskidmark]

There goes the neighborhood.

The minor conflicts in data (he returned to base & turned himself in vs. he returned to "a NATO base") are much less troublesome than Mr. Kahn's fortuitous being away all night when his entire family gets wiped out and some female relative haranguing the press but not giving her name "because of the conservative nature of the area" (sharia proscription against women having any dealings with men not of their own family?) and the whole burned-bodies-in-a-minivan thing.

Lone NCO walks off base near midnight to villages barely 500 yars away, goes to several houses where he blasts away killing all and sundry, and there is not even an alert on the base due to the proximity of gunfire?

I'm thinking that there is an odor here.

What say the rest of you?

stay safe.

[wmenorr67]

Things are interesting to say the least.  Can't wait for the redacted reports.

[MillCreek]

The NYT is reporting the shooter as an Army sergeant who killed 16 people, nine of them children.  He collected 11 bodies at the first of three houses and tried to set them on fire. 


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/world/asia/afghanistan-civilians-killed-american-soldier-held.html

[Frank Castle]

Were on alert , i got breifed when i woke up.  I don't have full detail yet ! But i heard he was drunk or high.

Sgt B

Afghanistan

[wmenorr67]

Were on alert , i got breifed when i woke up.  I don't have full detail yet ! But i heard he was drunk or high.

Sgt B

Afghanistan

But...but...but...General Order 1A says there isn't to be any alcohol or drugs in theater.  So that can't be the issue.

[Hutch]

Abu Ghraib, the recent Koran burnings, now this.  We seem to be sabotaging ourselves quite effectively.  Damnit.

[Blakenzy]

Things are interesting to say the least.  Can't wait for the redacted reports.

Yep, reading blackline code is easy...



That^^ breaks down to: "Go *expletive deleted* yourself Citizen, none of your beeswax!" 

[birdman]

Was talking to a friend this morning about this (he's a former army E5), and had some thoughts:
1. Do you think the powers that be will turn this guy over to the afghani's?
If so...what do you think the reaction of Joe will be?  What about reaction here?
2. Will this incident compel us to leave AF sooner?
If so...maybe that was the guy's intention?

[Jamie B]

Abu Ghraib, the recent Koran burnings, now this.  We seem to be sabotaging ourselves quite effectively.  Damnit.

No kidding.

Unfortunately, America has a history of stepping on our own toes in foreign conflicts.
We never have the knowledge of foreign cultures, and then having stupid sh!t happen.

All this could have been avoided by staying out.
In the end, our presence never really makes a difference.

[wmenorr67]

Was talking to a friend this morning about this (he's a former army E5), and had some thoughts:
1. Do you think the powers that be will turn this guy over to the afghani's?
If so...what do you think the reaction of Joe will be?  What about reaction here?
2. Will this incident compel us to leave AF sooner?
If so...maybe that was the guy's intention?

1. No--bet the Soldier in question is already in route if not already on ground to Germany.

2. No--but it is going to make the next two years very rough for those that are going to have to go.

[Fitz]

I am speaking to a buddy right now about it.

Same guy birdman refers to (E-6, by the way, birdman. Fail. U FAIL SIR!)



I think there's probably a chance our government will cave and turn him over. I pray that's not the case.

It would be the end of good order and discipline over there.


"Hey soldier, clean your weapon."

"What are you gonna do, sir? Turn me over to the local police?"



"Hey soldiers, let's go clear this house."


"You clear it, sir. I don't want to end up in an afghani gallows if I kill the wrong person."

[dogmush]

I think there's probably a chance our government will cave and turn him over. I pray that's not the case.

It would be the end of good order and discipline over there.

Also talking with some guys I know.

I think there's zero chance that we will turn him over.  In addition to there being plenty of legal precident that we try our own for war crimes, and our whole multi year stand that the international court doesn't have jurisdiction over our soilders, turning a US service member over to the Afghani's is the kind of thing that could lead to a full on mutiny and Obama's cunning enough to know it.

We'll make some noises, and vacilate publiclly.  Maybe a senator or someone will make some comments about turning him over, but it'll all be for show.  I'm with Wmennor; This guy's already in Germany, and will be CONUS before the riots can start in ernest.

[birdman]

I am speaking to a buddy right now about it.

Same guy birdman refers to (E-6, by the way, birdman. Fail. U FAIL SIR!)

I demoted him for moving to Florida without my permission.

[wmenorr67]

I would like to have a little more background on the Soldier in question for multiple reasons.  The biggest reason being to try and figure out his motive.  You know this type of incident is going to have ramifications not only for our troops in Afghanistan but worldwide and possibly from the Islamic population stateside.  Folks it is incidents like this that could make things ugly fast.  And with my BDE currently rotating our to Afghanistan and my unit and our sister unit that came to Kuwait due to rotate out in a few weeks, not a good time to be moving large numbers of troops.  Big motivational win if the bad guys were to knock off a homebound unit.

[Waitone]

If you use the Ft Hood shooter legal rational this event (if it took place as portrayed) was nothing more than work place violence.

I am being facetious.  This incident (again, if it happened as portrayed) is deadly serious.  What would be equally serious would be to turn the individual over to Afghani courts.

[SADShooter]

The soldier will not be turned over to the Afghan govt, at least not in 2012. The public outcry would impact a certain happening in November. After the facts are determined, justice should be meted out under UCMJ. On a personal note, recent events have shifted me firmly into the get out ASAP camp. The U.S./ISAF no longer has an achievable mission, and thus should leave.

[MechAg94]

No kidding.

Unfortunately, America has a history of stepping on our own toes in foreign conflicts.
We never have the knowledge of foreign cultures, and then having stupid sh!t happen.

All this could have been avoided by staying out.
In the end, our presence never really makes a difference.

Who steps on their own toes less than us?  The Russians?  The British?  Historically, conquerors cares little about it, and I am trying to think of anyone in recent years, but am drawing a blank.  IMO, the difference is we try to care and don't get into wholesale raping, pillaging, slaughter, and/or colonization.  I think our biggest problem is trying to nation build in 3rd world hell holes like Afghanistan instead of just wiping out of our enemies and leaving.  

The politically incorrect thing to mention is that we should stop trying to "help" Muslim countries.  They are generally ungrateful and the dictatorships are the only ones that make a pretense of liking us.  When a people's sense of morality is so far apart from out own, it is inevitable that we will clash and occupation will not be smooth. 

[HankB]

News update is that the soldier involved is 38 years old and had previously suffered a traumatic brain injury (bumped his head either in a car crash or in a Humvee) but was later cleared for duty.

This was his fourth combat deployment - first one in Afghanistan, his previous three were all in Iraq.

The article said after his last deployment he had trouble re-integrating and marital problems, but the Army cleared him for duty again.

[vaskidmark]

News update is that the soldier involved is 38 years old and had previously suffered a traumatic brain injury (bumped his head either in a car crash or in a Humvee) but was later cleared for duty.

This was his fourth combat deployment - first one in Afghanistan, his previous three were all in Iraq.

The article said after his last deployment he had trouble re-integrating and marital problems, but the Army cleared him for duty again.

Aint that just effing convenient?

And since when did "concussion" get promoted to traumatic brain injury?  (Have no idea if that was his previous injury, but if he had some penetrating injury or lost functioning of part(s) of his grey matter I am hard-pressed to see him being cleared for return to duty.)

stay safe.

[dogmush]

And since when did "concussion" get promoted to traumatic brain injury?  (Have no idea if that was his previous injury, but if he had some penetrating injury or lost functioning of part(s) of his grey matter I am hard-pressed to see him being cleared for return to duty.)

MTBI =/= concussion.

[gunsmith]

There goes the neighborhood.

The minor conflicts in data (he returned to base & turned himself in vs. he returned to "a NATO base") are much less troublesome than Mr. Kahn's fortuitous being away all night when his entire family gets wiped out and some female relative haranguing the press but not giving her name "because of the conservative nature of the area" (sharia proscription against women having any dealings with men not of their own family?) and the whole burned-bodies-in-a-minivan thing.

Lone NCO walks off base near midnight to villages barely 500 yars away, goes to several houses where he blasts away killing all and sundry, and there is not even an alert on the base due to the proximity of gunfire?

I'm thinking that there is an odor here.

What say the rest of you?

stay safe.

I have not really been that interested in reading the news reports which I'm sure will be very biased.

What I have gleaned so far is that it wasn't witnessed by other soldiers, the pictures are provided by APS well known for its anti American agenda-any word yet what other anti American pictures the photographer has published? I'm thinking the whole thing is staged personally, but am not talking about it much.

If the whole thing turns out to be true???

Well, it only proves that the soldiers need cable TV, what else is there to do in a war zone?

If they had the necessities of a civilized society, cable TV/internet, BBQ's and quality strip clubs maybe they wouldn't need to go all Major Hussein on the Taliban 

[Phantom Warrior]

Another vote for the Soldier not being turned over to the GIRoA.  That would fly in the face of every precedent where we've refused to give up immunity under local law for US troops.  This was one of the major issues that scuttled the extension of the SOFA in Iraq.  Won't happen.

As to the NCO having a number of deployments, having gotten his nugget rocked, and having marital and adjustment problems.  Do you know how many Soldiers that describes since 2001?  Many, many, many.  There may have been other warning signs but to say "Oh, this guy got knocked in the head and had marriage problems, why didn't anyone do anything?" is ridiculous.