US service member detained for allegedly shooting Afghan civilians

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so you need to buy off the head of the clan?

[Jamie B]

Here is the latest info:

http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-afghan-suspects-friend-had-leg-blown-off-033637373.html

The suspect had been injured twice during his three previous deployments to Iraq, and didn't want to go to Afghanistan to begin with, Browne said.

The soldier asked to be represented by Browne, a well-known Seattle defense attorney, when he was taken into custody, the lawyer said.

Surely the accused will engage an insanity plea....

[MillCreek]

John Henry Browne would surely be on any list of the top five Seattle criminal defense counsel.  A very skilled lawyer in his field.

[Harold Tuttle]

Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, 1st platoon sergeant, Blackhorse Company, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 3rd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, meets with local Afghan civilians during a patrol in the village of Jahel Dar Lab-e at the National Training Center Aug. 23. Blackhorse Company patrolled the village of Jahel Dar Lab-e to establish a relationship with the Afghan people and secure the village.

[Harold Tuttle]

Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, 1st platoon sergeant, Blackhorse Company, 2nd Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 3rd Stryker Brigade Combat Team, 2nd Infantry Division, checks over an Afghan civilian’s identification papers at the National Training Center Aug. 23. Blackhorse Company patrolled the village of Jahel Dar Lab-e to establish a relationship with the Afghan people and secure the village.

[Blakenzy]

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/321262

More news. I wouldn't be surprised if in the end reality doesn't coincide with the US "Official Statement". There was a lot of killing in different houses in apparently two villages now(??) and the subsequent heavy lifting to pile up the bodies for burning. Blaming everything on a lone, deranged individual is just too stretchy. Looking to the past, village massacres have never been carried out by lone rogue soldiers.

[Jamie B]

If any of these idiots from NATO or the US has lied about this, we are completely *expletive deleted*ed, deserve total disdain from others, and will never be trusted again.

At least they could have had enough common sense to cover their tracks better than this.....

[vaskidmark]

As per an earlier Digital Journal report, according to an Afghan official who viewed the footage, a US surveillance video caught the solder walking up to his base, laying down his weapon and raising his arms in surrender. US authorities showed this footage to the Afghans to prove that only 1 soldier was involved in the shootings.
However, there are apparently a further 2 or 3 hours of video footage covering the time of the attack and Afghan investigators are still trying to get this footage from the US military.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/321262#ixzz1pP7SkMoR

Lee Harvey Oswald nailed John Connely and blew Jack Kennedy's head off all by himself, and Vince Foster committed suicide just as the official report says he did.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they depend on significant (any number > 1 = significant) numbers of folks to keep their mouths shut in defiance of human nature's [almost] imperative to talk.

IF the alleged video shows that there were allegedly other folks allegedly involved, keeping a lid on things is going to be a bit more than "difficult".  I'm going to  .

stay safe.

[RoadKingLarry]

Lee Harvey Oswald nailed John Connely and blew Jack Kennedy's head off all by himself, and Vince Foster committed suicide just as the official report says he did.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they depend on significant (any number > 1 = significant) numbers of folks to keep their mouths shut in defiance of human nature's [almost] imperative to talk.

IF the alleged video shows that there were allegedly other folks allegedly involved, keeping a lid on things is going to be a bit more than "difficult".  I'm going to  .

stay safe.

Three can keep a secret.

If two are dead.

[Jamie B]

Three can keep a secret.

If two are dead.

Oooo, I like this!!!

[Harold Tuttle]

I will bet there will be a movie about this event. I expect the Russians had similar soldier justice retributions.

[birdman]

Oooo, I like this!!!

So did Ben Franklin IFAIK.

[vaskidmark]

Oops!  Someone committed Thinking

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-madness-is-not-the-reason-for-this-massacre-7575737.html

The Afghan narrative has been curiously lobotomised – censored, even – by those who have been trying to explain this appalling massacre in Kandahar. They remembered the Koran burnings – when American troops in Bagram chucked Korans on a bonfire – and the deaths of six Nato soldiers, two of them Americans, which followed. But blow me down if they didn't forget – and this applies to every single report on the latest killings – a remarkable and highly significant statement from the US army's top commander in Afghanistan, General John Allen, exactly 22 days ago. Indeed, it was so unusual a statement that I clipped the report of Allen's words from my morning paper and placed it inside my briefcase for future reference.

Allen told his men that "now is not the time for revenge for the deaths of two US soldiers killed in Thursday's riots". They should, he said, "resist whatever urge they might have to strike back" after an Afghan soldier killed the two Americans. "There will be moments like this when you're searching for the meaning of this loss," Allen continued. "There will be moments like this, when your emotions are governed by anger and a desire to strike back. Now is not the time for revenge, now is the time to look deep inside your souls, remember your mission, remember your discipline, remember who you are."

Now this was an extraordinary plea to come from the US commander in Afghanistan. The top general had to tell his supposedly well-disciplined, elite, professional army not to "take vengeance" on the Afghans they are supposed to be helping/protecting/nurturing/training, etc. He had to tell his soldiers not to commit murder.

This is just a snippet from the middle of the think-piece.  Do go read the whole thing.

stay safe.

[gunsmith]

So did Ben Franklin IFAIK.

according to my research, yes, it was Ben Franklyn who originally coined the quote, I first saw it at the NYC Hell's Angels clubhouse circa 1981.

As far as the shooting being a conspiracy? I'm sure all the Taliban think so.

[RoadKingLarry]

according to my research, yes, it was Ben Franklyn who originally coined the quote, I first saw it at the NYC Hell's Angels clubhouse circa 1981.

As far as the shooting being a conspiracy? I'm sure all the Taliban think so.

My first encounter with the phrase was also by way of the HAMC.
I didn't learn about Franklin's connection till much later.

Either way it is something of a truism. The bigger the conspiracy needs to be the more chances for someone to spill the beans. Get enough people involved and someone WILL run their mouth.

[MechAg94]

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2012/03/more-on-afghanistan-massacre.html

I thought some of the comments here were interesting.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-whole-line-of-infidel-gear-cant-be-helping-international-relations-in-afghanistan-2012-3
This link was given.  Kind of makes me think the troops are a bit cynical about being there.

[wmenorr67]

About 200 coalition members have been killed or wounded from insider attacks. Afghan President Hamid Karzai is tantamount to being Taliban and has not bothered to apologize. Instead, Karzai whips up anti-U.S. fervor at every opportunity. Twice, Karzai has threatened to leave politics and join the Taliban.

Even our most disciplined troops — not the few problem troops — have lost all idealism. They have not lost heart for the fight. Mostly, they just don’t care. They fight because they are ordered to fight, but they have eyes wide open. The halfhearted surge and sudden drawdown leave little room for success.

These two paragraphs says a lot.  The bolded part is very true.

[Fitz]

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2012/03/more-on-afghanistan-massacre.html

I thought some of the comments here were interesting.
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-whole-line-of-infidel-gear-cant-be-helping-international-relations-in-afghanistan-2012-3
This link was given.  Kind of makes me think the troops are a bit cynical about being there.

I don't make any claims about the decisions other NCOs make... but.

I would not allow my soldiers to wear such stuff. for me, it's not about being PC, or "offending" anyone, it's about professionalism

[wmenorr67]

I don't make any claims about the decisions other NCOs make... but.

I would not allow my soldiers to wear such stuff. for me, it's not about being PC, or "offending" anyone, it's about professionalism

I agree 100%.

[MechAg94]

I don't make any claims about the decisions other NCOs make... but.

I would not allow my soldiers to wear such stuff. for me, it's not about being PC, or "offending" anyone, it's about professionalism

I don't disagree, which is why this says a lot to me about the general attitude of the troops. 

[Fitz]

In my view, it's indicative of the continued erosion of what it means to be an NCO.

I might have thought it was "cool" to wear such things when I was a dumb private. It would have been my team leader's and squad leader's jobs to ensure that I didn't do that crap.

the NCO corps is being eroded. I see it all the time. I am not sure of the causes, but the effect is clear: good order and discipline, along with judgement, are suffering.

[wmenorr67]

In my view, it's indicative of the continued erosion of what it means to be an NCO.

I might have thought it was "cool" to wear such things when I was a dumb private. It would have been my team leader's and squad leader's jobs to ensure that I didn't do that crap.

the NCO corps is being eroded. I see it all the time. I am not sure of the causes, but the effect is clear: good order and discipline, along with judgement, are suffering.

Fitz not to make excuses but the biggest factor has been the constant state of war we have been in.  Not enough time to properly train Soldiers and get them the schools they need to move up the ranks.  Before you had to have PLDC/WLC to make E5 and now that isn't needed until time to make E6 and so forth.  Also too many good NCO's get slapped down when doing their job.  And it can all be traced back to the lowering of standards to boost troop strength.  Too many bad apples got into the Service and now some of them are becoming NCO's.

[Fitz]

Fitz not to make excuses but the biggest factor has been the constant state of war we have been in.  Not enough time to properly train Soldiers and get them the schools they need to move up the ranks.  Before you had to have PLDC/WLC to make E5 and now that isn't needed until time to make E6 and so forth.  Also too many good NCO's get slapped down when doing their job.  And it can all be traced back to the lowering of standards to boost troop strength.  Too many bad apples got into the Service and now some of them are becoming NCO's.

Yeah like i said.. the causes are many, and I haven't thought about them... but the end result is the same: erosion of what it means to be an NCO.

I went to the "new" WLC, I turned out ok. But I also had many shining examples of good leadership when I was a younger soldier. Not everyone has that benefit.

I see *expletive deleted*it soldiers promoted to E5 and it churns my stomach. Leadership in combat is a sacred responsibility, and it is taken entirely too lightly.

Got a great PT score? PROMOTE!

It's sickening

[Jamie B]

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/03/20/lancaster-soldier-accused-afghan-slaying-allegedly-swindled-couple.html

Looks like Bales' previous occupation was a failure.

WCPO reported that Bales was ordered to pay Gary and Janet Liebschner more than $1.5 million after an arbitrator found that he engaged in fraud, breach of fiduciary duty and unauthorized trading a year before he joined the military.

Janet Liebschner told the Cincinnati television station that her husband decided to sell some stocks to help pay for medical bills and that Bales pocketed their money.

The judgement against Bales was never paid, but it was a civil judgement. For some atrange reason, there were no criminal charges filed.
This situation seems quite odd to me.....

[wmenorr67]

http://www.military.com/news/article/gi-did-not-reveal-women-children-killed.html?col=1186032310810

A U.S. soldier held in the slaying of 16 Afghan civilians did not initially say women and children were among the dead, officials said.

Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales allegedly told officials he killed several older Afghan men outside a U.S. combat outpost in southern Afghanistan on March 11, the Los Angeles times reported Tuesday.

Interesting twist.