Buck Shot

[MechAg94]

 Remington 12ga #4 Buckshot Ballistics Gel Test - Best Home Defense Load? 🇺🇸
Mrgunsngear Channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cmGHz-4O4

I saw a comment that Mrgunsngear had a gel test for #4 buck on his channel.  Found this one.  About halfway into the video, you can see the gel block.  Looks like no shot went all the way through the block.  The shot is smaller, but that is a lot of wound tracks.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNb2uvezzx0
Federal #1 buck with flight control wad.

A good demonstration of why people like 12 gauge for home defense. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_33USEwWA0
Patterning with a Mossberg Shockwave 590.  Better than I expected.

[Bogie]

So, the news has a story on right now about a psycho escaping from a transport, and it happened a half mile from your house!
 
Now... you have the choice between a .32 that holds 9 shots, and a .25 with a frickin' gigglestick and da switch...

[AmbulanceDriver]

I run 00 federal flite control in my HD 870. 6 rounds of that and the last round in the pipe is a 3" magnum slug. Side saddle carries 5 more 00 and another slug. I really like how the buck patterns out of my 870 with the flite control wad and unless there's a really compelling reason I likely won't switch to the #1 buck.

[bedlamite]

Had a discussion the other day about what would be best for drones after watching Ukraine videos. We figured 4 buck would probably have the best combination of range, shot pattern, and power.

[Bogie]

https://youtu.be/a1F-MQ80IS4?si=aoh9AVtVmCWMapNQ

[Tuco]

Had a discussion the other day about what would be best for drones after watching Ukraine videos. We figured 4 buck would probably have the best combination of range, shot pattern, and power.

I'll stick with #4 birdshot for non-military UAVs.  Denser patterns.

[Ben]

I'll stick with #4 birdshot for non-military UAVs.  Denser patterns.

Likely the better choice for anything within shotgun range. FPV drones are pretty darn fragile.

[K Frame]

No. 4 buck has been my round of choice for home defense since I bought my home in 1993.

27 .24-caliber pellets is going to ruin the hell out of someone's day at household distance.

If I do ever need something heavier, there's the 5 rounds of 00 buck in the carrier. It's not the standard load, it's got an extra layer of 00 pellets, for a total payload of 12. Done with a roll crimp and card overwad.

[bedlamite]

Timing how long it takes for grenades to drop in Ukraine, they are 150-200 ft up. Even #2 birdshot is a little weak at that altitude.

[Ben]

Timing how long it takes for grenades to drop in Ukraine, they are 150-200 ft up. Even #2 birdshot is a little weak at that altitude.

Certainly distance plays a large part. While some guys might, I don't take shots at geese at more than 50 yards with BB. I'm kinda curious if anybody on the youtubes has bought a bundle of the $25 drones on Amazon and tried to shoot them down at various altitudes/speeds with different shotgun loads. If they haven't, maybe Garand Thumb should. It sounds like "science" right up his alley. I know he's done one where they were hunted by a drone, but I don't think they shot back, because it was an expensive drone.

[MechAg94]

Certainly distance plays a large part. While some guys might, I don't take shots at geese at more than 50 yards with BB. I'm kinda curious if anybody on the youtubes has bought a bundle of the $25 drones on Amazon and tried to shoot them down at various altitudes/speeds with different shotgun loads. If they haven't, maybe Garand Thumb should. It sounds like "science" right up his alley. I know he's done one where they were hunted by a drone, but I don't think they shot back, because it was an expensive drone.

Irangetv did a video, but mentioned some legal issues with doing that.  I think it was around being licensed to fly drones rather than shooting at them. 

My thought is something on the order of a goose gun with shot meant for longer range.  I was thinking some 3" heavy tungsten shot or whatever is similar. 

[MechAg94]

So, the news has a story on right now about a psycho escaping from a transport, and it happened a half mile from your house!
 
Now... you have the choice between a .32 that holds 9 shots, and a .25 with a frickin' gigglestick and da switch...

My issue with that analogy is normal name-brand 12 gauge has a good bit higher velocity than 32 acp or 25 acp.  1200 to 1300 FPS is normal.  over 1100 FPS for the cheaper stuff.  I thought both of those pistol calibers were under 1000 FPS.

Edit to add:  Wiki says up to 900 FPS for 25 acp and up to 1100 FPS for 32 acp.

IMO, the benefit or trauma is 9 or 20 pellets hitting the target at the same time making separate would tracks (or one big ragged hole at short range). 

[dogmush]

I'll stick with #4 birdshot for non-military UAVs.  Denser patterns.

Military drones for use at the "Infantryman" level are not physically hardened much more than a DJI drone.  For anyone planning on being a partisan.

[WLJ]

[Ben]

Military drones for use at the "Infantryman" level are not physically hardened much more than a DJI drone.  For anyone planning on being a partisan.

Hence gaffer's tape is part of the field kit for at least the RQ-11s and RQ-20s. 

Though with their EOIRs, they can get what they need and do their smoke and target painting at well out of resistance fighter range. And with something like a Switchblade, I reckon by the time you see it, it's moving too fast for you to do anything about it.

[Bogie]

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/browning-tss-tungsten-turkey-shotshells

[Bogie]

https://www.phoenixrising.store/tss-armor-piercing-buckshot-12-gauge-2-34.html

[MechAg94]

Military drones for use at the "Infantryman" level are not physically hardened much more than a DJI drone.  For anyone planning on being a partisan.

Why just partisans?  Looking at content out of Ukraine, the regular forces are using tons of little drones with grenades or suicide drones with bigger charges.  I saw one video showing they identified trenches feeding into a tunnel/bunker that they couldn't get grenades into.  They flew a suicide drone in with a larger charge, landed on top, and blew a big hole and collapsed the tunnel. 

Looks like it is going to be a regular part of warfare going forward unless there is some serious hacking or area denial developments.  I assume the drones will get better as the big defense industries get their own product lines.  I guess we are seeing some of that already.

[JTHunter]

Interesting videos MechAge.
I didn't hear anything about the "choke" they were using on those shotguns.  I also wonder why 2.75" shells vs. 3" loads.
I have an older Stevens SxS with a 3" #4 Buck (40 pellets) in the left barrel with a "skeet #1" choke (1 tighter than "cylinder") and a 3" OO Buck (15 pellets) with an "improved cyl." choke in the right barrel.  As this gun has 2 triggers, it can produce a "cloud" of 55 pellets that should be effective, even if the intruder has body armor.  As the late G. Gordon Liddy used to say on his radio show - "Body armor doesn't cover everything."
If I were to ever have to use that gun on an intruder, the two best points to hit are either the neck area (carotid artery and/or jugular vein) or the groin (femoral arteries) as they are less likely to be protected and the crotch can either take out the artery or break the thigh, putting them on the ground.  The neck is the lesser target as the intruder can move his head and torso much more quickly than their legs.

[MechAg94]

I am sure the choke would change a lot.  Last time I patterned buck shot, mine spread a bit more than what the videos showed.  What I loved seeing was the #4 buck penetrating all the way through the block and stopping.  I know some are usually concerned about over-penetration.

I will say the flight control wad that Federal sells is very good.  From what I saw, it holds the shot together for 10 yards or so out of the muzzle.