Author Topic: Paging Ben  (Read 1725 times)

Hawkmoon

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Paging Ben
« on: January 30, 2017, 04:55:56 PM »
So whaddaya think?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444384/california-secession-bad-idea-division-two-states-better-idea

I especially liked this part:

Quote
Assembly speaker Anthony Rendon has warned Trump that he better not dare to go after any of the state’s estimated 2 million illegal immigrants: “If you want to get to them, you have to go through us.” Governor Jerry Brown vows to block any attempt to divert California from its radical plan to limit carbon emissions: “We’ve got the scientists. We’ve got the lawyers, and we’re ready to fight.” State attorney general Xavier Bacerra says one of his top priorities is the “resistance” against Washington’s deportation of illegal immigrants, even to the point of paying their legal fees to fight the federales.

How do the folks in northern and rural California feel about paying the legal fees for La Raza to continue to harbor illegal aliens?
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Ben

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 05:10:58 PM »
Yeah, no. I'm already in the process of selling my rental property so I don't have any physical ties to the state (plus they can't use my property taxes for commie stuff like those legal fees). We're outnumbered a bit by the coastal liberals (and illegal immigrants), but all I have to say to California secession is "State of Jefferson". :)

Secession will never happen. I do like the geographic lines of the "split state" in the article. I can guarantee a lot of those Silicon Valley tax cash cows for the state would pretty quickly move to interior CA or another state if such a thing came into being. I imagine the first thing the state of coastal CA would do is double taxes. They talk big about "6th largest economy in the world", but a big part of the economy here is interior ag and oil.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Perd Hapley

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2017, 05:24:56 PM »
Let's say the whole west coast (minus Alaska) seceded. What would we do for ports? Or what if it was "just" all or part of California? Long Beach is one of the busiest ports in the world, is it not?
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Ben

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 05:32:31 PM »
Let's say the whole west coast (minus Alaska) seceded. What would we do for ports? Or what if it was "just" all or part of California? Long Beach is one of the busiest ports in the world, is it not?

Yup. Billions of dollars of goods a day go through LA/LB, including staples to the interior states. The goods would still flow, but likely with "deplorable" tariffs.

Also military presence. Again, not that it would happen, but if it did, I would bet the US would want to setup something similar to other international agreements. It would be hard for CA to say "no", because if they had to stand up their own navy, the would fast go from "6th largest economy" to "600th largest economy". :)
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Scout26

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2017, 01:53:15 AM »


Only replace Sherman with Maddis.

Regarding Trade.  While it would add an extra day or so to transit times, going through Portland, Seattle, or even Vancouver would be viable options.  My last year at OCP, we had switched to Hyundai and port of Portland, simply because we could save $200-$300 per FEU on shipping costs.   Portland, I know was trying to expand, but this was back in 2003.   

Could those three ports handle everything currently coming in through LA/LB ??  No.  But again, with the right financial incentives, should RoCA  decides to implement huge tariffs, then building another day or two of transit time to save $$$ would cause many importing companies to divert to those three ports.   And CN, BNSF and UP have rail-lines from those ports into Chicago and it's 23 TOFC/COFC railyards.   Damn near everything coming from the west coast to anywhere east of the Mississippi going through Chicago.   IIRC, something like 80% of the US Population lives east of the Mississippi.

So good riddance (Ro)CA !!!   We could reactivate three of the four Iowa Class BB's and just raid by fire the CA coast.  (I highly doubt CA could get the Iowa ready to fight again.   (Wishful thinking on my part.  :P :P)
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2017, 02:49:27 AM »
What would be the name of the new country?
People's Democratic Republic of Kalifornia.
Socialist Republic of Commifornia

They want to secede? Let 'em.
Shut off the Colorado River and pipelines and the flow of electricity from across the border and renegotiate the deals with "America First" as the key point.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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K Frame

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2017, 07:04:23 AM »
How is California going to pay anyone's legal fees?

The state's economy is huge, but its budget deficit is also huge. Its schools generally suck, it's taxes are high and are bound to go higher, its legislature is finding new and inventive ways to redistribute other people's money. I wouldn't at all be shocked to find out that the legislature is instituting a program to give everyone in the state a participating trophy every month to keep their self-esteem up in Trump times.

Then there's the whole thing about California wanting to become its own nation...

OK. Well, here are a few issues with that...

1. Electric. Something like 90% of California's electric is generated outside of the state.

2. Water. Think the United States is just going to keep forking over all that Colorado River water for free?

3. Economy. A large chunk of California's economy comes from its deep water ports, which convey Asian goods to the rest of the nation. Think you're going to get to keep all of that business?

I love it when butthurt starts turning into talk about secession. It just shows how *expletive deleted*ing stupid and unrealistic people are in California.

If they want to become their own nation, fine. Let them. And then you slap unbelievably high import fees on products from the People's Republic of California.

Ya got what you wanted, bitches... "independence."

Now you have to pay for it.
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K Frame

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2017, 07:06:59 AM »
Muh. I see most of my points have already been addressed.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2017, 07:30:44 AM »
What would be the name of the new country?


State of Jefferson Hamilton
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makattak

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2017, 08:57:56 AM »
How is California going to pay anyone's legal fees?

The state's economy is huge, but its budget deficit is also huge. Its schools generally suck, it's taxes are high and are bound to go higher, its legislature is finding new and inventive ways to redistribute other people's money. I wouldn't at all be shocked to find out that the legislature is instituting a program to give everyone in the state a participating trophy every month to keep their self-esteem up in Trump times.

Then there's the whole thing about California wanting to become its own nation...

OK. Well, here are a few issues with that...

1. Electric. Something like 90% of California's electric is generated outside of the state.

2. Water. Think the United States is just going to keep forking over all that Colorado River water for free?

3. Economy. A large chunk of California's economy comes from its deep water ports, which convey Asian goods to the rest of the nation. Think you're going to get to keep all of that business?

I love it when butthurt starts turning into talk about secession. It just shows how *expletive deleted*ing stupid and unrealistic people are in California.

If they want to become their own nation, fine. Let them. And then you slap unbelievably high import fees on products from the People's Republic of California.

Ya got what you wanted, bitches... "independence."

Now you have to pay for it.

Additionally, I'd love to see "Hollywood" become foreign movies. Maybe we can get a "Branson" or "Nashville" movie business going that would be more like Bollywood or the terrible awesome Russian movies.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

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Ben

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2017, 09:28:33 AM »
I do have to stick up for Californians on the forum in that Texas also wanted to secede during the last administration, so the point is that secession (for a single state) is stupid.

If CA were to secede, they better not even think about putting "Republic" anywhere in their name.

Back to the ports, all the West Coast ports are at max, so it would take many years to expand other ports to make up for the loss of the CA ports.  Time is the enemy in that case. Not long after 9/11, I participated in an exercise run by Homeland regarding a terrorist attack on LA/LB that blocked the port for an estimated 1-2 months. Major loss of income aside, the projected shortages to the interior of the country were very significant.

That is why  I continue to contend that if this slight chance were to happen, the US wouldn't allow it without some contingencies regarding port cities for commerce and military operations. Having nearly 2/3 of the West coast of the US, including the Southern coastal border, in the hands of commies would be very bad for national security. Especially because there is really nowhere on the Southern Oregon coast to establish a significant naval presence. Newport is probably as close as you could get for handling larger warships, and you would be pretty limited there. Next stop Portland. I suppose you could go to primarily submarine defense for that area. I have no expertise, so don't know if that would fly from an operational perspective.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Hawkmoon

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2017, 09:35:58 AM »

If CA were to secede, they better not even think about putting "Republic" anywhere in their name.


"Put"? California is already a republic ... as is Texas.
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Ben

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2017, 09:39:10 AM »
"Put"? California is already a republic ... as is Texas.

Yes, now, because until the 70's, we were a Republic. I'm talking after secession when it becomes a commune.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

MechAg94

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2017, 11:01:48 AM »
As I heard someone pointing out the other day, I thought much of the Texas secession talk heated up after Obama started doing stuff we didn't like.  California started talking about it before Trump even took office.  IMO, it was all talk in Texas a few years back and it is all talk in California now.
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K Frame

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2017, 11:04:50 AM »
" the US wouldn't allow it without some contingencies regarding port cities for commerce and military operations."

*expletive deleted*ck contingency.

You simply send in the military to occupy the ports and keep corridors open to free states. Think Danzig, but with actual military might behind the concept.

All the aging hippies would gather around...

"Hey, man, you're on the soverign soil of Californiastan! If you don't leave right now we're going to form a drum circle and play really, really loud!"
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K Frame

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2017, 11:05:42 AM »
"California started talking about it before Trump even took office."

[Archer voice]

YOU WANT A CIVIL WAR? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GET A CIVIL WAR!\

[/Archer voice]
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Ben

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2017, 11:11:15 AM »
"California started talking about it before Trump even took office."

[Archer voice]

YOU WANT A CIVIL WAR? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GET A CIVIL WAR!\

[/Archer voice]

Point of contention: Is it really a war if one side brings patchouli to a gunfight? :)
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

K Frame

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2017, 11:30:17 AM »
Who cares?

As long as there are hippies getting their asses kicked?
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Scout26

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2017, 01:09:02 PM »
Yes, now, because until the 70's, we were a Republic. I'm talking after secession when it becomes a commune.

It sounds like you don't want all the glorious trappings of a People's Democratic Republic...Breadlines, having a "Dear" or "Glorious" or just "The" "Leader", more Breadlines (and less bread), a thriving blackmarket, a worthless currency, Secret Police, everyone's an informer, long and more lines for all food, destruction/neglect of infrastructure, massive unemployment, re-education Gulag, Concentration Camps, plus all the fun and games that goes along with the above. 

You'll be missing out on all the fun...

 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

wmenorr67

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2017, 01:12:39 PM »
Who cares?

As long as there are hippies getting their asses kicked?

Just show up with soap and water and wouldn't most of the run away screaming?
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MillCreek

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2017, 01:48:28 PM »

State of Jefferson Hamilton

As long as the National Anthem is not rap.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2017, 06:34:45 PM »
Point of contention: Is it really a war if one side brings patchouli to a gunfight? :)

Don't forget the dildos.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

grampster

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2017, 09:53:38 PM »
Is there a law anywhere that says the .fed gov is required to give any federal tax money to any state?
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Doggy Daddy

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Re: Paging Ben
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2017, 10:45:57 PM »
Would you exchange
a walk-on part in a war
for a lead role in a cage?
-P.F.