Author Topic: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport  (Read 14573 times)

zahc

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Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« on: February 09, 2011, 10:46:36 PM »
I'm shopping for my first road-motorcycle. My commute is about 12 minutes by car at 6:30am, 20 minutes back home by car at 5pm. I used to ride and even race dirt bikes, but I have never ridden on the road and I haven't been on a motorcycle in at least 4 years.

My first urge was for a Ninja 250 because they are popular, supposedly good for beginners, and cheap, and get good mileage.

A lot of people have been warning me that they will not have enough power for the highway and I should get something with more power. When I remember back to how long it took my old XR250 to wind out 5th gear, I start to get worried they might be right.

The other thing I've thought about getting is some kind of dual-sport. I should feel right at home since the 'format' is dirt-bike-like, it may have more power, and it might be somewhat more crashable. I'm not sure though, because I've never ridden a sport bike or anything on the road. Thoughts?
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Jocassee

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 11:37:04 PM »
All I can tell you is 2nd hand but I have been researching this myself.

My understanding is that larger people will feel cramped on the 250.

There are a lot of dualsports available, I believe one of the cheapest and easiest to obtain is a KLR 650. I sat on one today and it didn't feel quite right but I haven't ridden a lot of machines. As always would suggest try before you buy.
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2011, 12:18:57 AM »
I have a 2002 Honda XR 400 that I bought new and have used about 98% street. If I was buying today I would get a 450 cc liquid cooled dirt bike and a dual sport kit. I have not been able to do much riding lately. I hope to get more on and off road riding in this year.

There are a few forums out there that have lots of info on dirt bikes and dual sporting. I have not been to www.thumpertalk.com in a long time, but it was a good forum back when I was active in the community.
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2011, 12:43:45 AM »
dood, get yerself on a klr650 post haste, you can use it for camping and carry a whole lotta stuff too if you ever need to bug out. You can get a huge "desert tank" for long distance.
There is a good reason there are so many cheap good ninja 250's out there- ppl get them because they hear its good to learn on and quickly get rid of them for a bigger bike. If you drop a 250 ninja you've lost more than the cost of the bike to fix the plastic, you drop a KLR you fix the light and tell the person you're selling it to about the time you were camping and the grizzly was attacking but only got a scratch on yer KLR.

If I had extra money first I would get a KLR then a ninja 250 to teach cute young ( well, youngish) women how to ride.
the only reason for a guy that weighs over 130 and 5ft to own one is... ... to lend to a girl.

I'm sure in LA if you're lane splitting in heavy traffic and you actually fit on one, go for it but if you're learning or re learning and you're average height weight or better a 550 ninja is a way better street bike, I'm 5'8 and have a CBR600 that I wish was a gxz1000. ... I may try to trade for a KLR650 though, way way better on the type of riding I do nowadays.  if you're over 5"9 a KLR will be way more comfortable then a tiny 550 or 250
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drewtam

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2011, 01:24:12 AM »
Dual sports are like SUVs...
Not really good at on road mileage, room, handling.
Not really good at off road ground clearance, locking center diff, tires.

But the SUV compromise is one a huge number of people accept because it is "good enough" and is still fun.
Likewise, the dual sport might be good enough for you to be happy with a little of both.


The 4-cylinder 250cc street bikes are way more high strung and potent than the single cylinder 250cc dirt bikes. The power is not comparable. That said, get a 600.
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MillCreek

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 07:46:18 AM »
I have experience with both bikes.  The Ninja 250 does feel a bit wrung out on the freeway.  A 200 lb. person crouched down over the tank can get up to 105 or so indicated, which is 95 MPH in real life.  In the more typical riding position, you will top out at around 85 MPH in real life, but the bike will be complaining.

I agree with drew and gunsmith on the virtues of a dual sport.  I have an Aprilia maxi-scooter for my work commuting and a Suzuki DR 650 dual sport for the Forest Service roads on the weekends.  If I could have but one bike, it would be the dual sport, since I can take that on the freeway comfortably but cannot take the scooter off road.  I need to ride to the trailheads, so I need a dual sport that can keep up on the road.  The Suzuki tops out around 80 MPH indicated, but I am pretty close to being blown clean off at that speed. 

Were I in your shoes, I would look at some dual sports. 
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 08:17:07 AM »
The Ninja 250 is OK for a smaller person. If you're over 150, I'd look elsewhere. Are you planning on any off-road? If so the KLR is an excellent compromise, I just recently bought one  =D If off road is not in the plan get a used 500, 550, or 650 Honda CB, Suzuki GS, Yamaha XS, or Kawasaki W. You are going to drop it, you may as well get something that you won't lose a ton of money when it happens, and you can sell it in a few years for the same price you paid for it.

The advice a couple posts up to get a 600 couldn't be more wrong, for your first bike stay away from a supersport at all costs.

Sign up for an MSF course. You have experience in the dirt, but the street is different.
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 08:33:36 AM »
a 600 supersport bike is stupid for a new rider.


Look into a GS500, old CB, etc.

I can still have fun on a GS500, and I've been riding for a while.

MSF course, both basic and advanced, are good choices. The advanced course covers topics like emergency braking and controlling skids.


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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 09:18:45 AM »
You will note that Zahc reports experience in riding and racing dirt bikes. With that under his belt, he is far more likely to be able to safely handle a large street bike than someone who has never ridden before.  Although I am still arguing in favor of a dual-sport.

In terms of what Dustin said, I would only caution that a whole lot of states are now cracking down with licensing a dirt bike with a dual-sport kit on it. Lots of discussion about this on advrider.com. More and more states now say that if it doesn't say 'street' or 'dual-sport' on the manufacturer title, it cannot be licensed for the street.  The state of Washington has been busy in recent years revoking dirt bike licenses for this very reason. A lot of the KTM and Husky riders are gnashing their teeth over this.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 09:22:00 AM by MillCreek »
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Fitz

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2011, 09:31:21 AM »
You will note that Zahc reports experience in riding and racing dirt bikes. With that under his belt, he is far more likely to be able to safely handle a large street bike than someone who has never ridden before.  

I would tend to agree, I'm just advocating caution.

I know lots of people who bought too-large GSXRs and whatnot after plenty of dirt experience.

I visited a few in the hospital after epic wrecks.

In the dirt, and motocross, you don't have the same hazards and situations as on the street.




Nice thing about dual sports is their comparative lightness, and versatility. I'd say that's a good route to go.

They're phenominal in the snow too... don't ask me how i know :-)
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 10:25:02 AM »
Back when I was doing the paramedic thing in a Navy town, we often remarked how frequently we responded to squid (in both senses of the word) crashes.  Stereotypically, it was an E-3 or E-4 who just got back from a long sea deployment, had a big unspent check, went out and bought a liter sportbike and made it about three miles down the road from the dealer before they wiped out, ran into a telephone pole or the like.  Most of them had never ridden before buying the liter bike.  I am now told that most military commands mandate completion of a MSF course or the like before you can bring a bike onto the base.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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tokugawa

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 10:56:16 AM »
How much money do you have to spend?    A 650 dualsport will be around 2500-4500 used for a really clean machine, it will keep up on the highway and keep you entertained on back roads and dirt. 50mpg, cheap insurance, and on a tight bumpy road positively embarrass sport bike riders.  The KLR will be nicer on the street, the DR better in the dirt.

 If you have no inclination to ride single track dirt trails, but maybe forest service roads, but mostly street, look at a Suzuki DL650- this has a v twin motor, a fantastic all around motorcycle. Far more capable on the street than the singles, but still capable on the dirt roads. Has some wind protection, often folks replace the windscreen as the factory one can cause wind buffeting- An ideal all around ride- about 4500-5500 for a super clean example ,used.  Also will return about 50 mpg.

 The little Ninja would be fun for a bit, but really limiting - it's nice to have a bike you can jump curbs with, go over BFPH   (big pot holes)
 or play off road.
 
 In general, if buying used, my recommendation is to find as stock a machine as possible with regard to engine or exhaust mods.

   Look for stuff like an upgraded shock, braided SS brake lines, better seat , etc.
 

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 11:54:36 AM »
My immediate response would be to suggest a slightly used dual sport 650. Lots of klr650's around in good shape. They can do anything you need but they won't excel at it. Their value is in versatility and  the durability of a time tested design. Cheap to run and repair. I liked the old Ninja 250 a lot and would love to ride a new model but would never choose one as my only motorcycle unless I never left campus. If you need longer legs on a dual sport just change around your sprockets to get the mileage and relaxed highway running you want and call it a day. You can overcompensate with a commuter bike so don't get crazy. I own a zrx1200 now and running around town on a muscle bike with 146db exhaust gets old after awhile  :police:

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2011, 12:06:31 PM »
I've been on the periphery of fast bikes my entire life. My 69 year old dad's idea of exercise in the winter still is to drag out one of his old motocross pieces and thrash himself. That said, I got lucky, I did my hospital time/half a year of of missed school due to motorcycle wrecking when I was young, young as in 5 years old. Coupled with the fact that I lived my young adult life in Hampton Roads, where only idiots ride, means I don't have a lot of seat time on bikes. I will however stand by my observation that 99% of the riders on the road cannot now or ever ride a factory 600 rice rocket to its full capability. New riders, sheer lunacy. When I get a bike it will be a dual sport, lusted for a BMW GS for some time, but they don't come cheap. Maybe a big KTM is what I need.

I will also note that down in the big city everyone working for me who rode a sport bike wrecked. Some spectacularly. Dad's Yamaha dealer buddy says it's about 1200 average miles between purchase and the big, OMG, I wanna sell this POS mishap. Maybe darwin still lives.
AKA Navy Joe   

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2011, 12:16:18 PM »
Hit Craigslist.  A friend's son just picked up a really slick 91 Honda Nighthawk 750 with 25k on the clock for $1800. It needs tires and a basic tunup/carb sync but is otherwise in perfect shape.  While helping him look we saw several 650-class dual sports in the $3500-$4500 range.

Brad
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2011, 02:29:10 PM »
A friend of mine and I took a trip over the mountains to Eastern Washington.  He has a DL-650 and I the DR-650.  We swapped bikes back and forth on the trip.  That DL-650 is one nice bike on the street, I'll tell you what. He has it fully tricked out with hard luggage, crash bars and a tall windscreen, so it makes a great adventure tourer.  If I had room in the garage and unlimited funds, I would think about getting one.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2011, 02:44:37 PM »
Doesn't KTM make a something-something 950 DP bike?  There's someone on my side of town with one and I see him scooting around on it quite a bit.  I think it's a twin.

Brad
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2011, 03:52:54 PM »
Millcreek, I have considered selling my ZRX and the DR650 and getting a DL650, that's how much I like them =D  They are a fun , practical machine that could take a person anywhere, or just for groceries- unlike the bulk of "toy" motorcycles--like the  sportbikes you can't carry a sandwich on, and need a chiropractor after every ride, and they get 30 mpg, or the cruisers that are 800lbs of "style". helpless on a dirt road, two foot seat height and two inches of suspension travel, the "adventure tourers " that need stepladders to get on and cost 20K, etc.
 
 
 

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2011, 04:49:10 PM »
Doesn't KTM make a something-something 950 DP bike?  There's someone on my side of town with one and I see him scooting around on it quite a bit.  I think it's a twin.

Brad

Yup, KTM makes something like that, and as soon as I win the lottery I'll be buying one :cool: :laugh:
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2011, 05:37:41 PM »
Millcreek, I have considered selling my ZRX and the DR650 and getting a DL650, that's how much I like them =D  They are a fun , practical machine that could take a person anywhere, or just for groceries- unlike the bulk of "toy" motorcycles--like the  sportbikes you can't carry a sandwich on, and need a chiropractor after every ride, and they get 30 mpg, or the cruisers that are 800lbs of "style". helpless on a dirt road, two foot seat height and two inches of suspension travel, the "adventure tourers " that need stepladders to get on and cost 20K, etc.
 

Quoted for truth, by gosh.  I especially hate that semi-reclining position of some cruisers/baggers. 
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2011, 06:21:06 PM »
Millcreek, I have considered selling my ZRX and the DR650 and getting a DL650, that's how much I like them =D  They are a fun , practical machine that could take a person anywhere, or just for groceries- unlike the bulk of "toy" motorcycles--like the  sportbikes you can't carry a sandwich on, and need a chiropractor after every ride, and they get 30 mpg, or the cruisers that are 800lbs of "style". helpless on a dirt road, two foot seat height and two inches of suspension travel, the "adventure tourers " that need stepladders to get on and cost 20K, etc.

I ride a sportbike as my main transportation in the summer, and take issue with the above statement. Saddlebags are available for just about every model, from small cordura bags to the biggest Givi hardcases. If you need a chiropracter you're sitting wrong, rotate your hips forward and straighten your back and your next Iron butt rally will be no problem. Mileage is usually well over 40. I've got an SV1000S, and flogging it in the twisties all day I get an average of 45mpg, I know several people that get more.
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2011, 10:05:17 PM »
You are free to take exception =D   And for everything there is an exception, and everybody has different tastes.  And I will add- fenders that are cut short that allow every manner of crap to end up on the rider or the bike, valve adjustments that require pulling the cams, an obsession with top end performance to the detriment  of midrange, ,seats made by sadists,  etc.
  And yeah, some folks do fine on sportbikes, yeah, a guy can get bags etc- but mostly they are designed to be toys, like nearly all motorcycles made for the US market.
 
 And toys are fine- no problem with them- my gripe, as it were, is that the degree of specialization necessary to make a totally awesome bike in any particular niche, tend to make them nearly useless in in the others- very few bikes these days are designed to be competent all rounders.-something one can get groceries on, have a fun time in the canyons, take down a dirt road , commute to work,and go to Utah on. On some sort of reasonable budget. The DL650 is one of a very rare breed.

zahc

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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2011, 10:35:36 PM »
I'm about 6 feet and 200 pounds. I have a soft spot for cute things and just thought a ninja 250 (one of the new ones) would be a good thing to learn on. I actually thought about getting a high performance scooter but those aren't any cheaper. I don't plan on riding long distances.

Quote
The little Ninja would be fun for a bit, but really limiting - it's nice to have a bike you can jump curbs with, go over BFPH

You know really jogged my brain with that one. The street-sportbike would be a really strange world to me. Dual sport on the other hand would be almost like home. I really don't see myself ever riding off-road on a dual-sport; it would annoy me since I would want a 'real' dirt bike, but I can see maybe the fire-roads thing, or the BFPH thing, or maybe around the farm or something. A sport bike, like, you can't even drive over dirt with. That's weird.
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2011, 05:39:26 PM »
I've gone camping on really bad dirt/gravel roads with both an FZR600 and a CBR600 -- you can do it but its a PITA.
The local gravel roads chewed up my tires bad on my cbr.

You are too big/tall for a ninja 250 period @ your height weight you need a KLR650 or if a street bike the 600 to 1000 range.

 You would be really unsatisfied with a scooter, no one fixes them so it gets pricey when you do find some one, guys on 400$ CB750's from 1979 are going to pass you, point and laugh ( & you'll deserve it ) and you won't be able to catch up to them to give them a piece of your mind.

There are plenty of bikes out there for you to get into the street scene, IDK where you live but I found this quick
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/mcy/2207857586.html

look for old Honda's - they're great cheap and reliable then graduate to a new GSXR1000
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Re: Ninja 250 vs. 650 dual-sport
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2011, 06:01:56 PM »
look at this
http://reno.craigslist.org/mcy/2184688157.html
Don't know where you live but your height/weight & dirt bike experience you can get a bike like this and not worry about anything.
Politicians and bureaucrats are considered productive if they swarm the populace like a plague of locust, devouring all substance in their path and leaving a swath of destruction like a firestorm. The technical term is "bipartisanship".
Rocket Man: "The need for booster shots for the immunized has always been based on the science.  Political science, not medical science."