Author Topic: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?  (Read 10286 times)

charby

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2014, 01:55:51 PM »
I'm not saying don't try, but that's an ambitious first project. And that's from me heading off to weld crap all night. Not really stick welder territory either.

More TIG weld territory.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2014, 03:16:18 PM »
I'm not saying don't try, but that's an ambitious first project. And that's from me heading off to weld crap all night. Not really stick welder territory either.

Im a fan of gas welding for tubing like that. Maybe mig weld it but it might be harder to try to get the gun around that small of tubing quickly enough. The stick welder could drive a simple tig rig though if shop teacher has a tig torch and argon bottle for it.
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geronimotwo

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2014, 03:30:38 PM »
it's a shame you can't get 1/2" emt conduit without it being galvanized.  here's some stainless thickwall tubing   http://www.ebay.com/itm/316-Stainless-Steel-Round-Tube-3-8-OD-x-035-W-x-48-SMLS-/141100499695?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20da3ec2ef  

if you have access to a drill press you can make very neat joints by using a hole saw with the same external dimension as the pipe to cut the ends to length.  then they make a perfect fit, although you will be grinding a 45 for a bevel to fill.

i'm lucky to have a local fabrication shop that lets me peruse their scrap bins, and pay scrap prices for metals!   :-*
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 03:50:10 PM by geronimotwo »
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tokugawa

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2014, 06:10:12 PM »
AZ, we need ride reports on the new bike! 

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2014, 10:01:59 PM »
I freakin' love this bike.

I finally got it over the 300 mile hump today, so now I'm "allowed" to hit 6000 RPM rather than 5000.  Truth be told, I'd been nibbling at 5500 for awhile, and today I hit probably 6200-6500. >:D  Accelerating on the highway on-ramp, I'm at 65mph before I'm halfway down the ramp, and the slowest part of the equation is my constant need to shift to keep the revs down.  Just another 300 miles until I'm allowed to knock at 7000 RPM's.

It's so damned fast, torquey and fun!

The brakes are amazing.  I love ABS and dual front discs.

I'm taking it out for a light dirt spin tomorrow, in the foothills of the Sierra Ancha mountains.  There's snow up higher, but it should be nice weather as long as I stay out of the high passes.  Gonna go see some very remote indian ruins, where Geronimo used to hide from the US Cavalry.  Probably be about 50-60 miles of dirt and 150 miles of highway to get there and back.

I am starting to hear a hint of some valve lash now that the engine is breaking in, and I'm looking forward to the 600 mile service as an opportunity to learn how to remove the gas tank and necessary bits to get to the valve covers.  I have a service manual for it and I'm ready to do the valve clearancing, having done it for my XR and Shadow in the past.  Slowly and steadily, I'll learn this bike's innards.  I should have the XR back together after its tear-down for different service issues after this weekend, so it'll be the Tiger's turn to be down for a couple days or a week and I'll ride the XR around for a bit.

I'll enroll to re-take the MSF confident rider course and intermediate rider course once I'm done with the 600 mile service.  Then it'll be time to really play with this bike.

I can feel EXACTLY how it can kill me.  It's a FUN bike.  Think "hooligan" with a big front wheel.

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tokugawa

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2014, 11:25:42 PM »

I'm taking it out for a light dirt spin tomorrow, in the foothills of the Sierra Ancha mountains.  There's snow up higher, but it should be nice weather as long as I stay out of the high passes.  Gonna go see some very remote indian ruins, where Geronimo used to hide from the US Cavalry.  Probably be about 50-60 miles of dirt and 150 miles of highway to get there and back.


 Man- that sounds like a LOT of fun! 


"I can feel EXACTLY how it can kill me.  It's a FUN bike.  Think "hooligan" with a big front wheel."

 some advice from an old guy- yeah, you can get killed being a hooligan- but  far more likely is that something happens when there is no reason at all for you to be especially alert- light traffic, sunny day, no particular rush and BAM- out of the blue something happens- complacency is a bigger hazard than speed- see, when you are running it hard, all your senses are focused razor sharp and you are ready for anything- - it is in moments of relaxation that some Buick comes out of the sun and completes a firing pass on your ass. So to speak.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2014, 11:35:04 PM »
it is in moments of relaxation that some Buick comes out of the sun and completes a firing pass on your ass. So to speak.



[Vader] Effing cages. [/Vader] :laugh:

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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Cliffh

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2014, 12:39:48 AM »
I'd look at making the parts out of square tube instead of round.  The corners would be more square, but you won't have to be concerned about coving the pipe ends at every joint.  A "close enough" miter cut is just fine on square tube.

Lining up the two ends of the round tube after making 4 corner bends *and* keeping the whole she-bang flat might be "troublesome".

French G.

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2014, 05:55:08 AM »
I'd look at making the parts out of square tube instead of round.  The corners would be more square, but you won't have to be concerned about coving the pipe ends at every joint.  A "close enough" miter cut is just fine on square tube.

Lining up the two ends of the round tube after making 4 corner bends *and* keeping the whole she-bang flat might be "troublesome".

Yeah, it's not so much the actual welding on that mini jungle gym that would give you fits, it's keeping everything lined up. The folks turning those out have jigs for everything.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2014, 10:07:58 AM »
Well, I have already bought a tail rack for the Tiger, and I already have half-arse panniers for the XR.

I am going to buy a tail rack for the XR, rather than make it.  Then I'll have commercially manufactured tail racks.  I really have a pressing need for tail racks on both bikes ASAP. 

I will then experiment with making from scratch or modifying the panniers on the XR.  If that goes well, I'll apply the same skills to the Tiger.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2014, 11:05:53 AM »
For full disclosure, I laid down the new Tiger a couple times yesterday while offroad.  I chose a road for my first dirt ride that I had been halfway down in my truck before and it was well graded and not very technical at all.

I got down that part just fine with no issues.  Started getting into new area.

A word about AZ forest roads in low country:  They are basically hard-pack coliche, with a loose scattering of very hard, spherical sand on top of it.  Think of riding a bike on a concrete street that is littered with a bunch of BB's scattered on top of it.

As long as the road is straight, you can get up to 40+mph with no problem.  Some insane guys even get up to 80+mph while offroad.  But turning, you need to be down somewhere around 20-25mph.

I was riding with a bunch of buys on KTM 990's and Yamaha Super Teneres.  They like doing 60+ on these straight-aways, and I was doing 40-ish.  As a result, they'd stop every 3-5 miles and wait for me on a rise until I caught up.  

I started feeling bad for holding them up (mistake #1: Ride your own ride!) and picked up the pace on a straight-away to about 50mph.  This one I hadn't been on before and it was deceptively hiding a hard right turn due to subtle elevation changes.  I laid on the rear brake (ABS disabled like it is supposed to be when on dirt) but there was a cliff coming at me way too fast and it overrode my brain logic and told me to lean away from it.  Had I kept skidding straight, I probably would have stopped while still upright before hitting the cliff edge.  But, I leaned away from the cliff edge and into the turn.  This resulted in the beginnings of a low side that then morphed into a high side, throwing me forward from the bike and slamming it down hard on its side.

I took the throw on my right shoulder and hip which are sore today, but I rolled a couple times end over end and was fine.  I sat in the dirt for a few seconds just to make sure I could feel all my extremities and whatnot, then examined my bike.

I shattered the OEM Triumph handguards.  They're 100% plastic with no metal reinforcement bars on them and were on my replacement list anyways.  The failed handguard exposed the clutch lever to crash abuse, and it sheared off part of the lever.  The left turn signal lost its clear cover and part of its reflector, though the bulb was intact and functioning.  No other damage to the bike.

This allowed me to have an opportunity to find out if I can pick up my 800XC on my own while off-road.  Yep, I can.

I met up with the rest of my group after a creek crossing and we all gave the bike a look-over.  It's definitely no longer "new."   =| =D  First scratches out of the way, it's a christened adventure bike.

We kept going to our final destination.  I dumped it one more time at about 3-4mph in an uphill turn with lots of loose rock scree.  No damage.

We hiked a bit in an area called Devil's Chasm and saw an amazing cliff dwelling in one of the most remote places I've ever been.  Climbing ropes were necessary in several points of the trail, and other places it was so steep that you had to crawl on all fours to climb.

Coming back home, I dumped it at low speed one more time on that same low speed rocky scree turn.  Front tire wouldn't bite on the bottom of the turn and it just kept shoveling rock.  This last time down was also very slow, but a rock was in just the right place to tag one of the plastic mounts that holds the windshield to the front assembly.  I had to take the windshield off for the rest of the ride home.

This wouldn't have happened on my XR.  I would have taken the XR on this trip rather than the Tiger, but the XR is in pieces in the middle of a series of maintenance and upgrade tasks.


Ultimately:  It's an adventure bike.  A large format dirt bike.  These things were gonna happen.  Bike runs great after all this.  Last night I ordered better handguards with metal reinforced barriers to protect the clutch and brake levers.  These ones have LED turn signals integrated into the handguards, which will eliminate the dependency on the fragile front turn signals.  The handguards and turn signals were on my to-do list anyways.  I also found a new clutch lever identical to the old one.  All together, $140.

Today I need to inventory and cross-reference the various broken bits that hold the windshield on and get replacements for them (or research better windshield solutions).  And get everything done on the XR that I can... I can't 100% finish it because the oil cooler kit I got has some incorrect spacer-washers and I'm going to the vendor to get the correct ones for my bike on Monday.  But I should have the XR online by Tuesday, and the Tiger online again after next weekend.


My offroad confidence was hurt by this trip.  I had gotten to the point on the smaller XR that I could do a little bit of brake-sliding and throttling through corners, and the first 10 miles of the trip on the part of the road I had been on before, I was getting a feel for that same skill on the Tiger.  With nearly 100hp it is VERY twitchy and eager with low speed throttle response and easy to break loose, and the Tiger comes with horrible tires from the dealership.  I think the front is way too narrow, and neither tire is knobby enough.  Three out of four of us laid our bikes down on that rock scree turn so I don't feel too bad about that, and I violated my own #1 rule on the dirt (Ride your own ride!) on the big crash.

But after the 3rd dump and seeing all the broken parts on my new bike, I was exhausted from the very strenuous hike/climb, on an ornery 500 pound dirt bike, jacked up on adrenaline and frustrated.  I didn't go over about 35mph on the way out, and mostly it was 20-25mph.  I was very sore from the hike and the crash earlier in the day, and that also encouraged me to ride slow.  Took a little over an hour and a half to get back out at that speed.

Tiger's not going out on dirt again until it's all fixed up, and has knobbies.  I need to be able to ride this bike in dirt competently.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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tokugawa

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2014, 01:19:56 PM »
Yikes! Glad you were not hurt-  And you are smart thinking over what went wrong and possible solutions-
 I take it the cliff was on the outside of the corner and a drop off, not a wall? Sorta makes you pucker a bit.... That hard pack with ball bearings on top is a feature of many graded gravel roads - I sympathize- hard scary stuff to corner  on. Not predictable. Sometimes is is a thin coating, and other times the scree piles up like a pillow.  Do you think the high side was when your rear tire finally bit? Does the Triumph have a steering damper?

 Anytime there are a bunch of guys on bikes, there is gonna be some pushing in the speed department. Been sucked in myself a few times, till a "this is nuts" noise went off in the brain.

 Was the clutch lever useable, or did you have to improvise a fix?

 Is the gearing ok on that really slow stuff? Some of these " dual-sports" seem to be geared high for tight dirt riding- I dropped a tooth on the front on both our bikes and it made a world of difference in control at walking speed. got rid of the need to work the clutch so hard, and kept the revs up enough so when some power was needed, stalling was less of an issue.

 There are a few places that offer training on riding the big adv bikes- being able to do repetitions of exercises with demo's and instruction is useful - We took one in Cal. some years ago and it was helpful to my riding. 

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2014, 03:02:06 PM »
I just went apeshit on buying stuff today.

Centerstand for the Tiger.
2 x IRC TR8 tires.  One for the Tiger to replace the Pirelli Scorpion "Trail" on it, one for the XR to replace the dual sport Pirelli Scorpion AT on it.
1 x Full Bore M40 tire, for the Tiger to replace its rear.
A couple of little plastic bits for the Tiger windscreen that weren't too expensive.
A rear rack for the XR.

Between that and the handguards/clutch lever, I've spent a little more than $700 in the last 24 hours.


The new front tires should help stability off-road on both bikes, quite a bit.  They should also handle quite similarly, with a 75/25 street/dirt rear on both and a dirt front.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

geronimotwo

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2014, 04:17:34 PM »
oooh, that first scratch is always painful!  that's a lot of bike for canyon riding.  are you happy with the balance?
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2014, 04:29:50 PM »
oooh, that first scratch is always painful!  that's a lot of bike for canyon riding.  are you happy with the balance?

I'm the weak link in the balance equation.

One of the guys explained to me what I did wrong coming down the scree filled turn.  I had too much weight forward.  Yeah, a better tire would have certainly helped, but I was standing and leaning forward, when I should have been standing and moving my arse as far rear on the bike as I could to put more weight on the rear.

I forded three streams, twice, on it.  One of them was probably 18" deep.  I felt it squirrel a little on me, but again... tires.

I definitely balance better on the XR than this.  Much easier to counterbalance a misbehaving 300lb bike than a misbehaving 500lb bike.  But, the Tiger is far superior on the road.  Obviously.

I was absolutely exhausted when I got home yesterday.  It was like I spent the whole day wrestling.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

tokugawa

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2014, 10:03:17 PM »


One of the guys explained to me what I did wrong coming down the scree filled turn.  I had too much weight forward.  Yeah, a better tire would have certainly helped, but I was standing and leaning forward, when I should have been standing and moving my arse as far rear on the bike as I could to put more weight on the rear.

  =D then you could have had a front wheel washout and lowside...just sayin......

 Come to think off it, I am not sure IF YOU ARE STANDING if it makes any difference at all to weight distribution as your weight is being transmitted through the pegs, which obviously have not moved,  to prevent a front wheel washout, I was taught to slide my ass as far forward on the seat/tank  as possible.

   

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2014, 10:28:18 PM »
  =D then you could have had a front wheel washout and lowside...just sayin......

 Come to think off it, I am not sure IF YOU ARE STANDING if it makes any difference at all to weight distribution as your weight is being transmitted through the pegs, which obviously have not moved,  to prevent a front wheel washout, I was taught to slide my ass as far forward on the seat/tank  as possible.

   

Sure it does... think about standing and leaning forward on the handlebars, versus standing and pushing back from the handlebars.  Weidht isn't on the footpegs.  It's balanced between the front tires.  Just like cornering, you can put your weight off the centerline of the bike and trick it into different behaviors... but your feet are still on the pegs and your arse is in the seat.  Works the same forwards/back.  It's all about that load triangle they showed you in BRC.

I was deliberately over the handlebars because I had heard from other riders that putting weight over the front tire helps it gain traction in difficult turns.  Evidently that's the wrong tactic when the turn is loose rock and downhill, or something.  I'm not sure.

I've got a friend up north of Phoenix, partway to Prescott, that I'm going to go on a ride with on the XR, hopefully in February.  He's a very old hand with dirtbikes.  Gonna have him really school me on aggressive turns in dirt with proper tires.  We'll go hit Crown King and some of the remote trails, maybe all the way to Yarnell or Skull Valley.

Regardless, I need more time being agressive on the saddle of the XR.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

tokugawa

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2014, 12:04:56 PM »
Sure it does... think about standing and leaning forward on the handlebars, versus standing and pushing back from the handlebars.  Weidht isn't on the footpegs.  It's balanced between the front tires.  Just like cornering, you can put your weight off the centerline of the bike and trick it into different behaviors... but your feet are still on the pegs and your arse is in the seat.  Works the same forwards/back.

 That makes sense.
 
 

Cliffh

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2014, 08:00:18 PM »
When you're up around Prescott, try Old Senator Hiway.  Not a road for a Towncar, but it'd be fun on a bike.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2014, 09:52:42 PM »
When you're up around Prescott, try Old Senator Hiway.  Not a road for a Towncar, but it'd be fun on a bike.

Ooh, that does look fun!  Nice little link from Prescott to Crown King.  I love Crown King.  Great Mardis Gras festival, and excellent chili cookoff each year.  I've got plans to go throw some dirt around on my XR up in the Bradshaws in February.  I'll have to check that out, as well as the deserted "Bradshaw City."
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Cliffh

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2014, 01:50:42 PM »
It was a pretty drive, until it started raining just before we came to a turn with a protruding boulder where there was ~6" clearance on the drivers side of the car and ~18" on the passenger side, with a few hundred foot drop-off....  We turned around at the first opportunity.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2014, 03:30:45 PM »
Well, Amazon Prime has certainly spoiled me in regards to expectations for package delivery times. =D

I'm still down 2 bikes, still waiting on parts to arrive to be able to put one or the other back on the road. 

It doesn't help though when I'm changing the front sprocket from 15T to 14T on the XR and discover that the sprocket cover is cracked and broken.  Or that the handguards with integrated turn signals I ordered for the Tiger don't fit the OEM configuration with the large sized clutch and brake levers.

So the fancy handguards are going onto the XR, and the LED conventional stalk turn signals that are currently on the XR are going onto the Tiger.  They're the same general triangle shape as the Tiger OEM ones, but smaller and LED illuminated.  Less likely to get bopped in a lay down since they're smaller, and once I get my bars on the engine and tank they'll be better protected anyways.

I should have the Tiger road-worthy, sans handguards, by Saturday afternoon.


I still haven't received the earliest components I ordered, though:  The engine bars for the Tiger and the tail rack for the XR.  I hate it when places list something "in stock" and all they do is drop-ship and have no idea what their vendor's stock level is.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

tokugawa

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2014, 12:38:03 PM »
Those large levers are gonna go anyway......might as well cut them off clean  =D

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Should I buy it already made, or make it myself?
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2014, 08:37:49 PM »
Those large levers are gonna go anyway......might as well cut them off clean  =D

Nah, I'm going premium on the Tiger.  Getting Barkbusters for it, which are evidently all The RaveTM for the cool kids to have on dual sports and adventure tourers.

I did briefly look into getting truncated size brake and clutch levers, but decided against it for now.

She's back up and running and happy.  Er, mostly.  Prior to the crash I was planning on spending today learning to do the valve clearancing and oil change process on the Tiger.  Instead I spent all day installing a new windshield and messing with turn signal relays and sanding scratches out of plastic and making wiring harness adapters for the signals I installed.  But, at least it's two-wheeled transportation.

So, that stuff will end up being 150-200 miles late, next weekend instead.

Hoping to fire up the XR tonight before going to bed.  Just gotta wire in the new rear light array while also splicing in the front banjo bolt brake sensor, install the Tusk LED handguards as front signals, and put the chain back on and fill it with oil.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!