Debating deer rifle

[birdman]

So my ersatz "deer rifle" for this year was a bit heavy / overkill / what in the name of all that is holy?!
(Rem 700 in 308 in an AICS w/ my TBAC 338 can and a leupold LRT 6.5-20/50mm...it's my "medium range" gun, and used for deer because I just bought house and didn't want to buy dedicated deer rifle at the time...and it was the best choice out of the myriad of weapons I have, but GOD is it heavy)

So anyway. 
Looking at the following requirements:
1. Cartridge/barrel combo that yields reliable whitetail kills at (normally 50-100yds)
2. Mounts a reasonable scope with variable mag up to 10x, down to below 4x
3. I not have to reload for it unless I want to
4. Doesn't -have- to share a cartridge with things I already have, but preferably should be able to share a can.
5. Preferably suppressed, but that's way secondary.
6. As light as goddamn possible...

So far I'm going back and forth between:
1. 300BLK in a 10.5-12" upper with optional 30 cal can and 2-5-10x illuminated scope (I have an SBR lower to use with it, and this would mean supersonics for deer, subs for coyote at night)
2. A 16" 308 Rem 700 with 2.5-10x scope and optional smaller 30cal can
3. A T/c modular rifle
4. Marlin 1895SBL lever gun in 45-70, because I really really want one.
5. Use my FAL for deer hunting with a 4x trijicon I have lying around

Ideas?  #5 is basically free, #1 is otherwise the lowest cost option, #2 is kinda redundant I guess but not really,  #3 is probably the most modular/useful, and #4 is...well, adds to the collection :)

[Scout26]

A buddy of mine has a Savage 220 Bolt action shotgun slug gun.  Accurate as hell out to 200 yards.   I'm very, very tempted to get one for me Robert to use for deer hunting (we are shotgun only state).    Since the ranges you indicate (50-100 yards) are within it's "TackDriver" range, and it's a light gun, with low recoil, it meets most of the requirements you specify (other then the suppressor).

Might be worth a look.

[dogmush]

Inside of a 100 yds I'm really liking my .300BLK AR.  I bought one of Primary Arm's BDC 300BLK 1-6X scopes and it works really well. I only played with it for about 1000rds before I had to leave home for a while, but it's a lot of fun, controllable, decently hard hitting with pretty easy to find factory ammo.

You live on the east coast right?  Deer there are small, I would go with that.

If that doesn't go do it for you, .308 is kinda a classic deer round with ammo good ammo everywhere.  Your FAL would be fine, or an AR-10(ish) depending on how much you want a new gun.  I'm collecting parts for my .38 AR, so it's not shooting yet, but they are pretty dang popular.

I know you like suppressors though, so really if you don't already have one, a .300BLK is pretty versatile.

[Perd Hapley]

A talking deer rifle would be one thing. A debating deer rifle?!!    What's her stance on gun rights?

[RoadKingLarry]

Winchester or Marlin lever action .30-30 or you're not a true American.

[Northwoods]

If I wanted a lightweight deer rifle a Tikka T3 in a suitable caliber would a high level option.  You would have to cut threads in the barrel for a can though.

[tokugawa]

Winchester or Marlin lever action .30-30 or you're not a true American.

 This.  50 to 100 yards?  you want a cool gun? How about a BLR takedown ?

[RoadKingLarry]

Hornday Leverevolution makes a .30-30 an easy 200 yd shooter.

[HankB]

50-100 yard shots and a 4x-10x (or wider) 'scope . . . hmmmm 

I presume you already have an AR lower, so #1 seems to fit your criteria pretty well. You can certainly use full power (supersonic) loads, but since you have interest in using a can, I wonder what sort of terminal performance on deer you'd get with the 220-240 grain .308 bullets the original .300 Whisper was built around . . .

[zahc]

Not to suppress G.A.S, but it sounds like you already have a nice deer rifle. Consider keeping things simple and using the gun you have.

If it's really too heavy, and you are inside 100 yards, a lever action is classic, but my uncle got one of those compact "mountain rifle" bolt actions in .357 mag, and I have to say I liked it better than a lever action..it was just as small, but more scopable and actually handier with the full stock and no lever.

[lupinus]

I must second the 30-30 option. It's tailored to everything you describe wanting.

Plus ammo is cheap and their plain damn fun.


Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.

[RoadKingLarry]

Not to suppress G.A.S, but it sounds like you already have a nice deer rifle. Consider keeping things simple and using the gun you have.

If it's really too heavy, and you are inside 100 yards, a lever action is classic, but my uncle got one of those compact "mountain rifle" bolt actions in .357 mag, and I have to say I liked it better than a lever action..it was just as small, but more scopable and actually handier with the full stock and no lever.

Nothing easier than a Marlin lever action for mounting a scope (Henry rifles are also D&T for scope mounts)

[roo_ster]

Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle in .308Win
http://ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

You can ignore the scout mount and install a scope in the usual place, muzzle already threaded, mauser-ish action.

Ruger Hawkeye Compact in .308Win
http://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeLaminateCompact/models.html

Even lighter than the Ruger scout rifle.  Laminate in .308Win at 6lbs, Walnut at 5.7lbs.

If you really are thinking of 100 yard max, the usual lever-guns and cartridges from .45-70 on down to .30-30 will do the trick.  Or you can get a .44mag or .454 Casull in a Win92 clone.  Short range means to me I can get serious bullet weight and diameter with moderate recoil.

Rossi 92
http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=164&category=8&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

You can remove the offensive top-side safety and replace it with a neat-o peep sight.

And now for something completely different....

CZ550 FS in 6.5x55 swede.
Because you need a mauser actioned rifle in 6.5 Swede in your life.
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-550-fs-6-5-x-55-adj-5-rd-fixed-mag/

[Northwoods]

I love my CZ's.  The 6.5x55 especially.  A lot.  But they're not featherweights.

[bedlamite]

I've read too many stories this past season about deer that were lost after being hit with 300BO to consider it a good deer cartridge. Save it for the range.  

I consider a good deer cartridge to have 6-7mm bore, 2500-2800 fps, 100-140gr bonded or monolithic bullet. Slower reduces your range, heavier and faster can damage too much meat. Anything in that range can use a 30 cal suppressor if the barrel is threaded.

I use the 6.8spc in a 6lb AR15 with Nosler Accubond, but from your choices I'd go with a lightweight 308, and a Vortex Viper HSLR 2.5-10 for the scope, and handload a moderate load with fast for caliber powder for it, like 150gr Accubonds on H322.

[brimic]

If you just want something cheap that shoots really well, take a look at the savage and ruger bydget package rifles- both should be available in 7mm-08. A step up would be a savage 11/110, where you can easily switch chamberings later on.

[birdman]

Thanks for all the inputs, I'll try to address key ones

I've read too many stories this past season about deer that were lost after being hit with 300BO to consider it a good deer cartridge. Save it for the range. 

I consider a good deer cartridge to have 6-7mm bore, 2500-2800 fps, 100-140gr bonded or monolithic bullet. Slower reduces your range, heavier and faster can damage too much meat. Anything in that range can use a 30 cal suppressor if the barrel is threaded.

I use the 6.8spc in a 6lb AR15 with Nosler Accubond, but from your choices I'd go with a lightweight 308, and a Vortex Viper HSLR 2.5-10 for the scope, and handload a moderate load with fast for caliber powder for it, like 150gr Accubonds on H322.

Agreed, though most of those 300BLK failures were idiots shooting subsonic at deer.  The supersonic is pretty damn close to your spec (100-125gr @ 2200-2500fps).  The 6.8SPC more so, and I had forgotten about it! (But reminds me that a friend uses a 6.5 grendel AR for deer)

Currently my 308 deer ammo is a 150gr nosler ballistic tip (good choice for the littler deer here, need fast energy dump)

If you just want something cheap that shoots really well, take a look at the savage and ruger bydget package rifles- both should be available in 7mm-08. A step up would be a savage 11/110, where you can easily switch chamberings later on.

Hmm...good call on the savage.  Call it the baby brother of my 110BA :)
Prefer 308 vs 7-08 due to ammo compatibility (I have all the reloading equip for 308 already)

Not to suppress G.A.S, but it sounds like you already have a nice deer rifle. Consider keeping things simple and using the gun you have.

If it's really too heavy, and you are inside 100 yards, a lever action is classic, but my uncle got one of those compact "mountain rifle" bolt actions in .357 mag, and I have to say I liked it better than a lever action..it was just as small, but more scopable and actually handier with the full stock and no lever.

Hence the question :).  For shooting from my blinds, current is fine, but from my stands...ugh, PITA.

50-100 yard shots and a 4x-10x (or wider) 'scope . . . hmmmm 

I presume you already have an AR lower, so #1 seems to fit your criteria pretty well. You can certainly use full power (supersonic) loads, but since you have interest in using a can, I wonder what sort of terminal performance on deer you'd get with the 220-240 grain .308 bullets the original .300 Whisper was built around . . .

I'm an old man...vision sucks, and I like the higher power for the longer shots just to be sure.

Using a can doesn't preclude supersonic.  I shoot both 308 and 338 lapua supersonic with a can, and both are quieter than you might think.  Bullet crack is more down-range than by the shooter so it's more than just noise spec.  With the exception of the lever gun option, -all- of the above would likely be shot suppressed.

Inside of a 100 yds I'm really liking my .300BLK AR.  I bought one of Primary Arm's BDC 300BLK 1-6X scopes and it works really well. I only played with it for about 1000rds before I had to leave home for a while, but it's a lot of fun, controllable, decently hard hitting with pretty easy to find factory ammo.

You live on the east coast right?  Deer there are small, I would go with that.

If that doesn't go do it for you, .308 is kinda a classic deer round with ammo good ammo everywhere.  Your FAL would be fine, or an AR-10(ish) depending on how much you want a new gun.  I'm collecting parts for my .38 AR, so it's not shooting yet, but they are pretty dang popular.

I know you like suppressors though, so really if you don't already have one, a .300BLK is pretty versatile.

I already have a few cans...including my big 338 can I used on the 700...but I'd like to add a 30 cal can to the mix, which would cover any of the 0.30 or less options here.

Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle in .308Win
http://ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html

You can ignore the scout mount and install a scope in the usual place, muzzle already threaded, mauser-ish action.

Ruger Hawkeye Compact in .308Win
http://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeLaminateCompact/models.html

Even lighter than the Ruger scout rifle.  Laminate in .308Win at 6lbs, Walnut at 5.7lbs.

If you really are thinking of 100 yard max, the usual lever-guns and cartridges from .45-70 on down to .30-30 will do the trick.  Or you can get a .44mag or .454 Casull in a Win92 clone.  Short range means to me I can get serious bullet weight and diameter with moderate recoil.

Completely forgot about the scout rifles and the compact...that hawkeye 308 looks nice, and gives the option out to 200 unlike the big lever guns.


Thanks for all the info guys...ill let you all know what I decide :)

[French G.]

Well, I learned something, as a lifelong Virginia resident I just had it baked in that suppressors were illegal for hunting. This thread had me go look, no idea it had changed. Oh look, shopping!  My dream project is a .45-70 lever suppressed. If it's going to be subsonic and slow it might as well be huge.

[birdman]

Well, I learned something, as a lifelong Virginia resident I just had it baked in that suppressors were illegal for hunting. This thread had me go look, no idea it had changed. Oh look, shopping!  My dream project is a .45-70 lever suppressed. If it's going to be subsonic and slow it might as well be huge.

Yup.  And the wife's "no shooting in the immediate backyard unless suppressed, so buy whatever cans you want" permission is nice :)

Also, for "pest" animals (including coyote) in VA you can hunt fully suppressed, AT NIGHT, with IR lasers and NVG.  You think they have a problem with them, given you are allowed to go all DEVGRU on them...

Hell, the antlerless deer gun season is close to 6 months here, with unlimited -daily- bag limit and no fees (on your own land, $5/tag if not).

Thinking of also getting a muzzleloader to expand my season.  (And a nice big freezer...current freezer storage is only sufficient for about 1.5-2 VA deer (think of small-medium Midwestern deer, call it 40-60lbs of meat each...the medium-large ones here are about 20-30% bigger)

To put in perspective, on a typical day I see 4-5 fawns (well, 9mo oldish now...but saw them from when they were little) 4-6 yearlings and a a few big does (keeping them around as they are breeding well).  Last weekend, we saw a literal herd of 15-20 in a line walking up the hill.

[mtnbkr]

I live in the same region as you and have been a hunter since the late 90s.  My "standard" deer rifle is a Winchester 70 Featherweight in 6.5x55 with a Leupold 2-7x32 scope.  It weighs about 8lbs as pictured, maybe a few ounces less.


It's light on recoil and has performed well on deer, though my longest shot was 50yds from a tree stand.

I hunt in the mountains and even my Winchester gets heavy after a while.  6.5x55 ammo is common enough that you don't have to reload for it, but I do anyway (140gr Sierra Gameking at 2500fps). 

If I were going to start over again, I'd probably get some flavor of 308, something short and light because the load I use for my 6.5 is light for black bear. Why is that important?  They're becoming more common and the seasons overlap.  I had one nearly walk up on me last year during early muzzleloader (4 days before black bear season was to open). 

I do have a Savage Hog Hunter in 308, which covers your "suppressor-ready" requirement, but is a touch heavy (just under 8lbs without scope).  I'm only using it with open sights (range toy, not hunting), so I can't speak to its ultimate accuracy, but others report great accuracy with a scope and handloads.  Another option would be one of the short and light Ruger American rifles in 308.  I think they have one with an 18" barrel and threaded muzzle.

Chris

[birdman]

There is a polymer stock 308 Rem 700 with a 20" threaded barrel that would also be good, and I could always get a shorty 16" barrel for it.

I haven't seen any bear, or any trace of them, so I'm probably too extra-suburban to get into their range...for now, they are moving south/easterly so since I'm on the extreme outer edge of any development from DC, (it's basically continuous woods with random interspersed highways/ small fields heading NW from me till...well, the woods stop somewhere.

My property ends at the top of the first ridge of the blue ridge / Appalachians.  Kinda funny, the next higher point heading east is in Spain or Portugal...

[bedlamite]

300BLK failures were idiots shooting subsonic at deer.  The supersonic is pretty damn close to your spec (100-125gr @ 2200-2500fps).  The 6.8SPC more so, and I had forgotten about it! (But reminds me that a friend uses a 6.5 grendel AR for deer)

You're right about the subsonic stupidity. The other thing I've noticed about the 300BO is that there is a lot of data padding. I've helped with ammo tests over my chrono, and the best I've seen with the 110 Barnes was 2250 fps, and the best accuracy was around 2100fps from a 16" barrel, Expect even less from an SBR. Dave has since sold that upper, and he's been looking at the 7.62x40WT. From the 6.8 I shoot the 110gr at 2700 fps, and 100gr at 2800fps over AA2200 powder from a 16" barrel. Both the 6.8 or Grendel are really handloading calibers.

I'm not a fan of the BT/SST varmint type bullets, way too much meat damage and scattered lead particles.

If you get the Savage package rifle, avoid the one with the Weaver Kaspa scope, It's complete garbage.

[birdman]

You're right about the subsonic stupidity. The other thing I've noticed about the 300BO is that there is a lot of data padding. I've helped with ammo tests over my chrono, and the best I've seen with the 110 Barnes was 2250 fps, and the best accuracy was around 2100fps from a 16" barrel, Expect even less from an SBR. Dave has since sold that upper, and he's been looking at the 7.62x40WT. From the 6.8 I shoot the 110gr at 2700 fps, and 100gr at 2800fps over AA2200 powder from a 16" barrel. Both the 6.8 or Grendel are really handloading calibers.

I'm not a fan of the BT/SST varmint type bullets, way too much meat damage and scattered lead particles.

If you get the Savage package rifle, avoid the one with the Weaver Kaspa scope, It's complete garbage.

Interesting re: bullet type.  I've heard things both ways, and it seems to me it comes down a lot to shot placement.  If the shot is through big muscle and bone areas, yeah, heard negative things.  Rib-heart-lung, less so, since ribs on the ones here are really not very meaty and the bullet stays together.

That said, I'll see how it goes, I can always switch to an accubond or SP.

We are trying to take mainly the yearlings as we have had a substantial population explosion here and need to cut down the young breeders while keeping the smart ones around.  What's nice about no-limit is it enables that strategy...which is probably why it's done.  Anyway, we (hunting buddies and I) have had a lot of convo about how to manage the local herd...since it's not getting any smaller, and we want to avoid any resource limiting that results in all kinds of bad things (like CWD...that moving east is something I really fear)

[Brad Johnson]

Ruger Compact. Available in .223, .243, 7mm-08, and .308. I have one and it's become my go-to rifle, even more than my insanely accurate old-reliable Model 70. I think the American is also available in a compact, though the light weight might rear it's ugly head in the form of recoil with heavier cartridges despite Ruger's excellent recoil pad.

If you're looking for a utility rifle I'd encourage sticking with a traditional chambering. The migration to new-fangled offerings has noticeably improved availability of old-standby calibers like .270, .30-06, .30-30, .243, etc..  I have a tough time justifying a newer caliber pushing $3 a shot when my .30-06 is sub-inch accurate, offers similar terminal ballistics, is more commonly stocked, has far more loading variants, and multiple proven loadings available for under $25 a box.

Brad

[dm1333]

Savage 340 in .30-30.  Light, accurate, you can mount a scope and the ammo is everywhere.  Pointy bullets are not a problem since it feeds from a box mag.  I have a Stevens 325B (same rifle) and I love the thing.