Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Angel Eyes on October 20, 2021, 12:47:08 PM
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https://www.foxnews.com/auto/chevrolet-most-powerful-v8-engine
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2021/10/1862/1048/chevy-v8.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
The 632-cubic-inch ZZ632/1000 crate engine was designed for drag racing builds and not meant to be used on the street. The 10-liter mill is rated at 1004 hp and 876 lb-ft of torque on pump gas without the use of any supercharging.
Now watch some drag racer try to shoehorn it into an Aveo.
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100hp/L? Meh.
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I think that would fit in my Forester...
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Well, there’s always forced induction...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motortrend.com/features/what-is-a-hellephant-crate-engine/amp/
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1.38 ft lbs per ci is pretty good for na.
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Cute.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi149.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs54%2FBitFreakazoid%2Fimage008_zpsf4d3b809.jpg&hash=09f2ae79f32f6f66b9bf5ba9447ae23f42d990ba)
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That air filter better not get dirty, it's too small as it is.
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It's so pretty!
Brad
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Sprint car 410s are pushing 900 with no power additives. On methanol though. I guess most powerful crate is the headline that they were going for. Which is like being the smartest kid on the short bus. Heck, our purposely detuned 305 sprint motors make 500. With a flat tappet cam and 10:1 compression.
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That air filter better not get dirty, it's too small as it is.
My thought, too. I guess they had to put something up there for the sake of the photography.
Bet the barometer drops 2 inches when you start that thing. Might even cause a rainstorm. =D
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I would think anyone going to the trouble of installing this would also put in a supercharger or something similar.
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I would think anyone going to the trouble of installing this would also put in a supercharger or something similar.
Depends on the application, but at first glance this thing appears geared towards hot rodders and street/strip applications. In that context, if you can make 1000 reliable and semi-controllable HP without the stress and cost of power adders, why not? Besides, 1000 HP is right at the line of unruly overkill for anything you'd want to try and drive on the street. There's no real reason to go further short of a racing need or bragging rights. There's no way to put that much power down without lots of suspension and chassis work, so most 1000 HP street cars are really just useless tire fryers or expensive garage queens. I've driven something along those lines sporting a mere 850-ish HP and it was a miserable experience, borderline uncontrollable and thoroughly unenjoyable.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have one, though... >:D
Brad
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At 10 liters, would you have to supercharge the supercharger? :)
I thought the 7.4 in my pickup/camper was huge and I understand that engine (454)was popular for boats.
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Im working on an 8.1 in a 2002 chevy, thats almost 500CI. It is a dog.
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My mother's buick had a 455 in it.
And it would living-room cruise at 90.
It ate a camaro once.
There is NO replacement.
Be interesting to stick a birdcatcher on that thing, but you'd need one helluva built tranny and rear diff, and seriously big tires. Could be interesting for an AWD vehicle...
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Our '68 Caddy had 472 CI, and a few years later they put a 500 CI version in the Eldorado. Good power, decent fuel economy, and the only pollution control on it was a PCV valve. Premium gas, though.
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>:D My Mom used to have a '67 Buick Wildcat. As I recall, it had a 430 CI eight with a 4-barrel carb. One time I was driving with her dozing in the passenger seat on this little, 2-lane country road that ran straight for 10 miles. I had the pedal 75-80% down when she roused, looked at the speedo and just said "Slow it down."
Even though the pedal wasn't "on the metal", the gauge read "120". =D
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But was it designed by cis males?
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But was it designed by cis males?
Probably . . . and they no doubt took math, science, and engineering classes in high school and college before they were deemed racist and incorporated social justice equity grading.
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Oh, he's just easily triggered. :rofl:
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Horsepower the hard way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKIjsXUMvhc
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I was always fascinated by the 2-stroke opposed piston supercharged delta configuration diesel locomotive engine.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Napier_Deltic_Animation.gif)
You are getting sleepy, you feel really relaxed, you can only hear my voice, sleep...sleep... you are now asleep... now pretend you are a chicken...
Terrrryyyy, 230RN
REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic
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Interesting. Sort of a Fairbanks-Morse opposed-piston design, times 3.
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I’d like to find an old Monza Spyder to put that in!
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I’d like to find an old Monza Spyder to put that in!
The Corvair, the late 70s Monza, or the Ferrari?
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Gotta love the "off the shelf" approach... Here's you have VW jugs, but I could also envision Sportster...
https://youtu.be/_bNKq-tQQz0
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Will he have to put a serial number on it?
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I would think anyone going to the trouble of installing this would also put in a supercharger or something similar.
This engine is spec'd (as a crate motor) to have 12:1 compression, going to have to run 91 octane from the pump.
Engines designed to be supercharged are 7:1-9:1 compression, ideally its 8:1 with available pump gas (91 octane).
A supercharger on a 12:1 engine is going to cause a lot detonation with available pump gas, start thinking 100 plus octane or E-85 if you go that route.
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You can buy 110 octane down the road from me. I'd hate to look at the cost right now.
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Meh, you could probably buy a junkyard LS engine, add smaller twin turbos to it, or a well designed turbo, and make the same power in 1/2 the displacement and weight at a fraction of the price.
This engine might have some good marine applications however, running on pump gas means it’ll likely last longer.
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Meh, you could probably buy a junkyard LS engine, add smaller twin turbos to it, or a well designed turbo, and make the same power in 1/2 the displacement and weight at a fraction of the price.
This engine might have some good marine applications however, running on pump gas means it’ll likely last longer.
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1807-heres-the-basis-for-building-a-1000-horsepower-ls-engine/
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I'm sure it's obvious, but what's an "LS" engine? Searches only reveal repeated use of the acronym without saying what it is.
LS1, LS6.... ?
Pardon my iggerance.
Terry, 230RN
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I'm sure it's obvious, but what's an "LS" engine? Searches only reveal repeated use of the acronym without saying what it is.
LS1, LS6.... ?
Pardon my iggerance.
Terry, 230RN
New generation Chevy small block starting in the early 2000's
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As bedlamite said, LS is GM's current engine series. In Ye Olden Days, GM eventually pared engines down to essentially two basic architectures... small block and big block. Revisions were limited mostly to head design. In the 90's GM recognized that the 50 year old architecture had been pretty much tapped out in terms of potential and were self-limiting in terms of any significant improvements. As a result, they did a clean-sheet engine design. Thus, the LS ... a simple single-cam OHV design with a metric buttload of power potential and few if any of the old engines' inherent limitations.
One of their biggest attractions is a huge aftermarket following and the fact that they make stupid good power without a ton of work. You can yank a garden-variety truck 6.0 out of the junkyard and easily make 500 reliable HP by simply swapping the cam, bolting on a good set of headers, and replacing the fuel injection setup with a carb. Their design also revs to the moon without issue. 6500 rpm is no sweat for a stock rotating assembly and there are plenty of relatively inexpensive crank kits that will stand 8000+ RPM. Since HP is a direct function of RPM, this is a giant "PICK ME!" sign for gearheads. Build something that makes decent torque, spin the crap out of it, and there you go. It doesn't hurt that the LS responds very, very well to forced induction.
However...
As much as I like the power potential of forced induction, pressure equals system complexity and mechanical stress. For a given power level, I much prefer making it with displacement. Lower the stress and you have more headroom in terms of reliability and durability, plus more displacement usually means a much broader (read: much more usable) power band with better low-rpm characteristics. That isn't so much a thing with variable cam timing and electronic controls, but for a simple hot rod application it really does make a difference.
This beast has to be a ground-up new design based on the big block, but with goofy-tall deck heights, significantly elevated cam centerline, and super-thin cylinder liners or some type of expanded bore spacing. There just isn't enough room in a stock block to poke and stroke that far. At 79 cu inches per cylinder, the pistons must be the size of coffee cans.
Brad
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And for the LS they were making computer kits back in the late 90's to put them in older cars. A friend had one in his Vega. Even had a knob to change the amount of fuel for when you really wanted to stomp on the loud pedal.
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Single properly sized turbo/kit on an LS is MAGIC!
THIS was my stone stock PINTO engine with a Mustang Cobra II turbo system and home made water/alcohol injection, A/C, stock auto trans, stock rear end geared in the LOW 3s/High 2s. Turn it up and listen. That is TIRE smoke from the oversize Nitto radials on the back. (http://herohog.com/images/cars/TurboPinto.mp4)
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^
No wonder you have that "Speedy" nickname. That video looks like how you drive when you are late for church and your much-needed salvation.
Thanks all for the "LS" explanation. Technically very interesting for someone who hasn't turned a bolt in thirty years. But what do the initials "LS" actually stand for?
Brad, your details were fascinating. I have one question, though.
"You can yank a garden-variety truck 6.0 out of the junkyard and easily make 500 reliable HP by simply swapping the cam, bolting on a good set of headers, and replacing the fuel injection setup with a carb."
This seems to be the opposite of what I would expect. Is it because of some quantity per time limitation of the stock injection setup, versus a carb which could have a much higher "quantity per time" fuel delivery limitation?
If that's it, then my ancient "mechanical" neurons are still working. (I still remember reading about brush carburetors, where a spinning brush half immersed in fuel would strike a plate, spraying the fuel droplets into the intake air stream.)
Terry
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^
Brad, your details were fascinating. I have one question, though.
"You can yank a garden-variety truck 6.0 out of the junkyard and easily make 500 reliable HP by simply swapping the cam, bolting on a good set of headers, and replacing the fuel injection setup with a carb."
This seems to be the opposite of what I would expect. Is it because of some quantity per time limitation of the stock injection setup, versus a carb which could have a much higher "quantity per time" fuel delivery limitation?
Terry
Your intuition is on track, I just left out context. I was speaking from an ease-of-use standpoint. In the scenario described, swapping to a carbureted setup is a matter of expediency and simplicity. In terms of power potential, injection and carburetion will perform similarly. The engine needs X lbs of fuel per HP per hour. It doesn't care how the A/F mix is made, only that the fuel is efficiently atomized, is in the proper ratio, and the mix delivered in sufficient quantity. The injected setup is just more complex and adds complication that probably isn't necessay for weekend hot rod duty. It's also significantly more expensive, though cost and complexity are offset by increased on-the-fly tuneability, efficiency (sometimes), and generally better fueling reliability in weather extremes.
Brad
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Ah. All is clear now. Thanks !
Except for what the "L" and the "S" stand for. ???
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That's a question for one of our resident Bowtie fans. I'm not familiar enough with GM's engine coding to go beyond L being the general engine family, with the second letter and numeric suffix being a configuration code.
Brad
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OK, I can live with that --just a mfr's sequence or model code. Like my flip phone is a WX sumthin sumthin sumthin, and the WX isn't really an acronym for anything.
The trouble is sometimes I go borderline nuts trying to figure out what legitimate arcane acronyms (especially military ones) mean if they aren't on some list somewhere.
But I have to hand it to you for your general knowledge of these things and your patient handling of the explanations.
Many thanks.
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One of the kids I work with has a mustang with several "adds" or something.
He's also cut the cats out, and just put some big wide wheels/street drag tires on the back.
And he had problems getting it out of the driveway to come to work today. Duh...
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OK, I can live with that --just a mfr's sequence or model code. Like my flip phone is a WX sumthin sumthin sumthin, and the WX isn't really an acronym for anything.
The trouble is sometimes I go borderline nuts trying to figure out what legitimate arcane acronyms (especially military ones) mean if they aren't on some list somewhere.
But I have to hand it to you for your general knowledge of these things and your patient handling of the explanations.
Many thanks.
No worries, and you're very welcome. I love mechanical things in general and engines of all iterations fascinate me to no end.
You might take a look at the Engine Masters series from MotorTrend TV. It's available on Youtube. They do in-the-trenches testing, including explanations and general discussion geared towards educating the interested. Plus, you get to see some really cool hardware on the dyno.
If you want to make yourself really nuts, look into all the versions, revisions, configurations, and general insanity that is the 351 Ford. Two seperate and distinct engine series with no interchangeability, plus an additional sub-series on one side and evolutionary revisions too numerous to count for all three.
Brad
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https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/01/19/whats-difference-ford-351-windsor-cleveland-modified-engine/
https://www.carmemories.com/ford-engine-specifications/351-engine-specs/
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My thought, too. I guess they had to put something up there for the sake of the photography.
Bet the barometer drops 2 inches when you start that thing. Might even cause a rainstorm. =D
... And create tornadoes aft of the exhaust pipes! =D
Woody
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... And create tornadoes aft of the exhaust pipes! =D
Woody
Ancillary, parallel:
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0f/8f/4b/0f8f4bbaf40742bfd20ef8b9c4e3ba2d.jpg)
Tourist killed from jet blast knocking her against a wall:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jet-blast-sint-maarten-princess-juliana-airport-caribbean-kills-tourist-maho-beach/
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Gotta love the "off the shelf" approach... Here's you have VW jugs, but I could also envision Sportster...
https://youtu.be/_bNKq-tQQz0
Hhmm, I wonder - - -.
If that engine were mounted in a small, single-seat airplane, I wonder how fast it could fly?
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I think it would be called a Gee Bee clone.
(https://planesoffame.org/uploads/images/Collection_Images/geebee-r-1-rmpg.jpg)
https://planesoffame.org/aircraft/plane-R-1
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gawkerassets.com%2Fimg%2F186m3ldr1jownjpg%2Foriginal.jpg&hash=bdb0106de4e88a4b13c5e9ce7f3e8ab037e0c10c)
One crashed when a wing fell off:
https://youtu.be/3UmmeWVAt6A
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Wasn't the Gee Bee the plane we see at the end of the movie "The Rocketeer"?
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Wasn't the Gee Bee the plane we see at the end of the movie "The Rocketeer"?
And the beginning.
Woody