Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on July 16, 2018, 03:22:40 PM
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I walked into the local Lowes last week, to be greeted just inside the entrance by a huge stack of Craftsman tool chests. I know Sears is in trouble, so I figured they might have cut some kind of a deal with Lowes to sell Craftsman tools. Finally got around to following up.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2017/10/25/lowes-offer-former-sears-brand-craftsman-tools-second-half-2018/797808001/
Turns out, Sears cut a deal, all right -- they sold Craftsman to Stanley/Black & Decker. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! I'm sure some bean counter thought this was a good idea, but, to me, Sears WAS Craftsman, and Craftsman WAS Sears. Probably 90 percent of the times I've ever gone into a Sears store over the past 60 years it was to buy a Craftsman tool. The last few times I cut through Sears anchor store at the local mall (on my way to the Verizon storefront, usually), I've noticed that the hardware department was a shadow of its former size. Now I know why.
I don't know what Sears thinks they want to be. The beginning of the end was when they stopped pushing their in-house Kenmore appliance brand and started selling all the other brands -- as if they could compete with the discount sellers. Now they've spun off their iconic tool brand. There's nothing left.
To show what an iconic brand Craftsman is (or was), I have a personal story. My late wife was from South America. A couple or three years after we were married, she mentioned that her brother was highly distraught. His pickup had been broken into. He wasn't upset about the truck -- that was easily repaired under insurance. But he had somewhere gotten a Craftsman tool set, and that was stolen from the truck. I think he had bought them early in his working career, when he was sent by the bank he worked for to a city in the south that had a duty-free, enterprise zone. Wherever and however he got them, he couldn't find Craftsman tools anywhere to replace them, and that was all he wanted for Christmas.
My brother-in-law had been very good to us, and he didn't seem to have any problems accepting that his little sister had decided to marry un loco gringo, so we decided that if he wanted Craftsman tools, he would have Craftsman tools. we went up to the Sears in the mall (the same one I now use mostly as a shortcut to Verizon and the food court) and bought a mechanics tool set that was on sale. It cost about twice as much to ship it to him as it cost to buy it, but he was a happy camper.
And now Sears has sold off the brand. How many ways can you spell "dumb"? This, to me, is proof positive that Sears is just circling the drain.
And I also want to know how Lowes is going to position Craftsman tools against their own Kobalt line ...
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Sears is already dead. Selling Craftsman was probably a necessity or requirement from the debtors.
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Sears is already dead. Selling Craftsman was probably a necessity or requirement from the debtors.
It's true and it's a shame. I like Sears, but they clearly could not compete in the current market.
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I walked into the local Lowes last week, to be greeted just inside the entrance by a huge stack of Craftsman tool chests. I know Sears is in trouble, so I figured they might have cut some kind of a deal with Lowes to sell Craftsman tools. Finally got around to following up.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2017/10/25/lowes-offer-former-sears-brand-craftsman-tools-second-half-2018/797808001/
Turns out, Sears cut a deal, all right -- they sold Craftsman to Stanley/Black & Decker.
Well, there goes a plot point in Seveneves. (Characters find the broken handle of a 5000 year old Sears Craftsman spade, and sound out the label. "Srap Tasmaner?"
The last time I saw Craftsman, they were being sold in the local K-mart.
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Sears was in trouble for a long time, in fact the only time I went in one was for tools. Back in the 80s as a mall rat the Sears was undertrafficed. But they had Craftsman and Kenmore. Craftsman doesn't have to be made in the USA right? Thank you Eddie Lampert which is the name to know if you want to know why they are so bad now.
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It's true and it's a shame. I like Sears, but they clearly could not would not compete in the current market.
FTFY
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Craftsman tools have been overpriced for their quality and cruising on their name recognition for awhile anyway. It's really no big loss IMO, I can't remember the last time I bothered going out of my way to buy something just because it said Craftsman on it. Come to think of it, I can't think of anyone I know in person who has either.
They screwed their own pooch a long time ago. At least maybe being made by Stanley and sold in a wider range of stores the brand wont die and pricing might be in line for their quality level.
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Local Ace hardware stores have been selling Craftsman stuff for close to 2 years.
Sears will soon be a thing of the past, relegated to little more than a trivia question.
I will however, always have fond boyhood memories of the big Sears catalog.
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My experience with testing to destruction new tools bought in the last 3 years (ratchets, sockets and prybars) has been that Harbor Freight is stronger than Craftsman now.
If you want a pro grade tool you're looking for Snap-On or MAC. And honestly, the Snap-On toolsets the Army bought us 3 or 4 years ago aren't that impressive.
I have a set of Craftsman Professional wrenches from the mid 90's, and my Grandfathers Craftsman tools from the 50's, and what they sell under that name now doesn't even compare.
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^^^I have been quite pleased with the Pittsburgh Pro tools from Harbor Freight. I have bought several tools (sockets, wrenches, pliers, screwdrivers) for the emergency kit in the truck.
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The Kenmore brand is now being considered for sale.
I grew up in a household with Kenmore appliances - everything from a pressure cooker to a kitchen double oven. They were well built, priced right, and reliable, and if you DID need a part, it was readily available through Sears' parts network. Now, decades later, the most noteworthy thing about Kenmore appliances is that a toaster I tried a couple of years ago would only toast one side of a slice of bread (no, it was NOT on the bagel setting!) and large Kenmore appliances have been featured several times in the "Made by Monkeys" column of Design News magazine.
Believe me, you DON'T want your product featured in that particular column.
A good example of what else is wrong on the leadership side is that the current CEO of Sears Holdings - who also has a hedge fund - has expressed interest in buying the Kenmore brand himself. You can probably figure out what's wrong with this, but if not, can you say "Conflict of Interest?" :facepalm:
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Craftsman tools have been overpriced for their quality and cruising on their name recognition for awhile anyway.
Funny, when changing the oil a couple of weeks ago, I did a quick comparison of a craftsman 3/8 ratchet that I got in a kit maybe 10 years ago, and another that I've had since the 70s. Just no comparison in quality. The newer one has already lost one of the ratchet parts, though it still works. The older one just feels better made and stronger.
Sadly, it's one of only a few Craftsman hand tools from the 70s that I have left. It was part of a mechanics kit my dad bought me as my first real tool set after I bought my first car in high school. I used that tool set when I was working in the oil patch in the early 80s, and some $*%&^ $&%&^^$ @#$% stole my toolbox with every tool in it except a few that I had with me, literally a couple hundred feet away. My buddies and I were pretty sure it was the trash truck drivers, who had just stopped near there when it happened. I've hated trash truck drivers ever since.
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This is really weird, I've read this thread but had not commented on it here or anywhere else yet this story popped up as a suggestion in my FB feed:
http://evonomics.com/what-happens-when-you-believe-in-ayn-rand-and-modern-economic-theory/
It features this Eddie Lambert fellow and what he did to Sears.
The thing is the article is from over a year two years ago. So it's not this site randomly (or based on what my friends might have read) showing up in my feed with their newest article. This seems like a targeted suggestion. But how?
Freaky.
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But Ma and I have been saving up for a Franklin Stove for the new cabin. =(
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Most of my hand tools are Craftsman, bought in the 1980s. I watched the decline in quality start in the 1990s. Fortunately I had most of the tools I needed by that time, and since then I've done mostly fill in with Lowes Kobalt brand.
A few years ago my Father's toolbox was stolen off the porch at Mom's house. I was beside myself because it was his, but also because there were a lot of older Craftsman hand tools in it that are impossible to replace.
I think at this point in time it's easy for people to not really understand just how pivotal and important Sears was to the development of this nation. It was, in so many ways, the Amazon of its time.
Both of my Grandfathers purchased engagement rings for my Grandmothers at Sears.
When Dad's parents got married their first purchase was a complete suite for their apartment -- a bed, mattress, wardrobe, nightstands, lamp, and a carpet for the bedroom, a soft, a small dining table and chairs, and linens.
Like others, I grew up in a house full of Kenmore and Coldspot (Coldspot was the early name for refrigerators and freezers, which didn't become Kenmore until the 1970s) appliances.
The only Kenmore appliance I have today is my microwave. I bought it from the Sears catalog store in the town I was working in. I'm pretty sure that it was manufactured by Sharpe, but 30 years later and it's still working like a freaking champ.
I tried buying several Kenmore appliances in the years after that, but by the mid 1990s they were starting to price themselves out of my market. These days I wouldn't consider going to Sears to purchase an appliance.
The traditionalist/historian in me mourns the passing of Sears.
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I think at this point in time it's easy for people to not really understand just how pivotal and important Sears was to the development of this nation. It was, in so many ways, the Amazon of its time.
{snip}
The traditionalist/historian in me mourns the passing of Sears.
Sears downturn came when they discontinued their catalogue operations. I know my mother would to the local Sears about once a month to pick-up whatever she had ordered from the catalogue.
Back to school shopping for clothes was done at Sears. With 5 boys, Toughskins pants were a must. You also got to pick a shirt. Shoes, coats, etc. All Sears. Toys also.
So Sears closed the catalogue and focused on retail (much like Montgomery Wards), and now the largest retailer in the world is an online catalogue operation (instead of having to go to the store, it comes to you.) History is simply repeating itself...Which is why Wal-Mart is really pushing it's on-line shopping and store pick-up operation. Picking up where Sears left off.
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Which is why Wal-Mart is really pushing it's on-line shopping and store pick-up operation.
Do people really use this feature though, ordering it but instead of being shipped to their home it goes to the store where they now have to go get it.? If I'm going to get something at some place like Wal-Mart I would rather be able to look at it and hold it in person before getting it instead of ordering it online and then still having to go pick it up myself, vice ordering it online and shipping directly to me.
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Do people really use this feature though, ordering it but instead of being shipped to their home it goes to the store where they now have to go get it.? If I'm going to get something at some place like Wal-Mart I would rather be able to look at it and hold it in person before getting it instead of ordering it online and then still having to go pick it up myself, vice ordering it online and shipping directly to me.
The idea is that if you order it sent to the store, you can avoid shipping costs(useful for some items and locations) because they can put it on the regular trucks.
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The idea is that if you order it sent to the store, you can avoid shipping costs(useful for some items and locations) because they can put it on the regular trucks.
Your package also doesn't sit by your front door all day while you're at work.
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"Do people really use this feature though"
I've used it a number of times with retailers other than Amazon when I've ordered something and it's not been in stock...
WalMart, Home Depot, Lowes, and maybe a couple of others.
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...Which is why Wal-Mart is really pushing it's on-line shopping and store pick-up operation. Picking up where Sears left off.
Very much so.
I hadn't been to a Walmart for some time. The last time I went to the one I usually frequent, a section of the parking lot was being dug up and fairly deep holes were being excavated with a backhoe. I sort of wondered if they were maybe putting in a gas station, since they closed the Sam's Clubs around here, but I didn't pay it any more attention than that.
I went back yesterday. The construction is complete. What they put in is a steel frame supporting arched beams with a heavy fabric cover stretched over them to create a dozen covered parking spaces dedicated to customer pickup. A new door has been punched in the front of the building, with a cross-hatched walkway leading from the covered parking to the new door -- over which is a sign that reads "Customer Pickup."
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Do people really use this feature though, ordering it but instead of being shipped to their home it goes to the store where they now have to go get it.?
All the time. Really nice to be able to order larger stuff and not get hammered on shipping.
Brad
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Yep plenty of people do, as noted can save a lot on shipping costs. And if you're going to the store anyway it's not really all that inconvenient.
I also have mostly switched to either Kobalt or Harbor Frieght for most of my tools. Harbor Freight especially I've been increasingly impressed with the cost to quality they've been coming up with.
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Very much so.
I hadn't been to a Walmart for some time. The last time I went to the one I usually frequent, a section of the parking lot was being dug up and fairly deep holes were being excavated with a backhoe. I sort of wondered if they were maybe putting in a gas station, since they closed the Sam's Clubs around here, but I didn't pay it any more attention than that.
I went back yesterday. The construction is complete. What they put in is a steel frame supporting arched beams with a heavy fabric cover stretched over them to create a dozen covered parking spaces dedicated to customer pickup. A new door has been punched in the front of the building, with a cross-hatched walkway leading from the covered parking to the new door -- over which is a sign that reads "Customer Pickup."
This is in place at my local WalMart and I have seen it in action. I think the primary intention is for the WalMart Grocery shoppers: you order, purchase and pay online and Walmart puts together your order. You drive down to the pickup point, send them a text, and they come out and load the order into your car. My wife and I have talked about online grocery shopping, and we conclude that it might be fine for dry/canned/paper goods, but we like to pick out our own produce, meats and bakery items.
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This is in place at my local WalMart and I have seen it in action. I think the primary intention is for the WalMart Grocery shoppers: you order, purchase and pay online and Walmart puts together your order. You drive down to the pickup point, send them a text, and they come out and load the order into your car. My wife and I have talked about online grocery shopping, and we conclude that it might be fine for dry/canned/paper goods, but we like to pick out our own produce, meats and bakery items.
Been doing this for about a month now. Sunday, the wife and I sit at the laptop and put in our bi-weekly big order, except for meat, fruit, veggies and the like. Later in the day, I drive over to the pickup spot and the nice people come out and load my trunk for me. They usually bring me a nice ice-cold bottle of water to drink while I watch them work in the Vegas sun. I drive home, unpack the car, and the wife puts the stuff away. Later, she goes back a does a quick roundup of the stuff she likes to personally select. Works great for us. Really frees up a LOT of time usually spent wandering the store.
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Getting back to Craftsman Tools and Lowes -- does anyone know how Lowes is going to position the Craftsman hand tools vis-a-vis Lowes own Kobalt brand hand tools?
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Getting back to Craftsman Tools and Lowes -- does anyone know how Lowes is going to position the Craftsman hand tools vis-a-vis Lowes own Kobalt brand hand tools?
No idea. But I'd imagine similar to how they position Stanley hand tools now, as well as brands like DeWalt and the like for other tool types where they sell multiple brands of a similar tool type.
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Interesting. Didn't realize there wouldn't be a shipping cost.
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I see the "no shipping" on items ordered to the store in several places, Northern Tool is one that comes to mind.
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Interesting. Didn't realize there wouldn't be a shipping cost.
It's usually factored into their usual distribution network, so no extra shipping cost than moving product as usual.
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The beginning of the end was when they stopped pushing their in-house Kenmore appliance brand and started selling all the other brands -- as if they could compete with the discount sellers. Now they've spun off their iconic tool brand. There's nothing left.
My last interaction with Sears was "less than optimal".
Earlier this year we needed a new washing machine. Our needs by this time are not great. Hemmed and hawed, "who can deliver", etc. Eventually the wife found something on the Sears website that looked OK. I dug up my Sears login, and ordered it, with delivery + disposal of old unit.
It showed up on time, when they said it would. But, the delivery guys told my wife that the hose connection to the old washer was corroded to the faucet, and they just left. (it took me longer to find my channel lock pliers, than to get the connection off. Five minutes, max.) They left the basement door off its hinges, for my wife to remount. And, of course, did not haul off the old unit.
I eventually got a live voice at Sears. Bless here, her English is better than my Hindi, so I was able to communicate the problem. She got someone else to come out, a couple weeks later. By which time all that's left is disposal of the old unit.
They keep dunning me for a maintenance contract, but never did email me for a satisfaction survey.
So, yeah, Sears ain't what it was when I was a kid.
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Sears realized too late that they might be able to make it as a hybrid online/brick&mortar store. Even when they did go full-on online order support, their web site was painfully counter-intuitive and gawdawful slow.
The only thing that will save the name now are their Sears Hometown stores which, if what I'm seeing is correct, are actually doing decent. They are essentially a throwback to the catalog stores. They stock a selection of popular everyday items and act as a pickup/dropoff counter for everything else.
Brad
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Isn't Sears Hometown owned by a different company?
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Several weeks ago, one of the door bins in our refrigerator cracked. After looking around online, I would up ordering one through Sears PartsDirect. Never again. When I hadn't heard a word about it after almost 2 weeks, I went online to check its progress. Even though I have an online presence in their parts ordering hell, I was still required to enter my order number. Seriously? They couldn't look up any open orders for the person who is now logged in to the ordering place? Then, I had to enter my zip code. Really? Is this still the 80s? I "talked" to a bot, who couldn't figure out where my bin was, so the bot said it would notify the proper people to look into it for me. The proper people called me back while I was at work on July 3. I was working. I didn't answer my phone. The left their name and a rambling voice mail in which they said they would send me an email when they got off the phone to explain things. No email ever came. Next day was July 4. I didn't even try to contact them. The next day, I called back for the person who left the voice mail. It was their day off, and nobody else would be able to help me. I called again the next day when voicemailnoemail guy was supposed to be working. He was unavailable. Luckily, I must have accidentally connected with Sears' lone competent one. He found the problem, corrected it, credited me for the delivery charge, and told me the bin would arrive by the following Friday. It actually came a couple days early.
Bless yer hearts if you've actually read all this. But, never again.
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Isn't Sears Hometown owned by a different company?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Hometown_and_Outlet_Stores (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Hometown_and_Outlet_Stores)
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They just closed the small sears near me about 30 miles away. Had him liquidate everything so they didn't have to pay to ship it back to the distribution center.
I stopped buying craftsman in the late 90's went with lowes and harbor freight like others. A few snap-on while I was still in the machine shop.
In the mid 2000's the head of Sears and Whirlpool went golfing. Decided to restart the AE service brand that Monkey Wards had. It was going down hill quick after that.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Hometown_and_Outlet_Stores (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears_Hometown_and_Outlet_Stores)
As of January 2018, 19 stores were still in operation
Make that 18. The one I used to go to closed a few months ago.
I was in Lowe's today. They had Kobalt, Stanley, and Craftsman tool chests, but no hand tools by either Stanly or Craftsman.
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Several weeks ago, one of the door bins in our refrigerator cracked.
We fixed ours with duct tape. I figured it was easier than trying to find the part.
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We fixed ours with duct tape. I figured it was easier than trying to find the part.
I'm sure it was a good deal less expensive, too.
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We had a Sears outlet store here that closed earlier this year. We had purchased appliances there over the years and we were sad to see them go.
I still have a set of Craftsman sockets and wrenches I got as a gift over 30 years ago. I have to go across town to get to one of the last Sears stores in the metro area if I want their tools now.
I now get tools online or at Harbor Freight.
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We had a Sears outlet store here that closed earlier this year. We had purchased appliances there over the years and we were sad to see them go.
I still have a set of Craftsman sockets and wrenches I got as a gift over 30 years ago. I have to go across town to get to one of the last Sears stores in the metro area if I want their tools now.
I now get tools online or at Harbor Freight.
And the other sad part is that should you need to use the lifetime warranty on one of those older good quality one's,you'll have it replaced with a crap one that's IME at best on par with kobalt or harbor freight.
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I've got a Kobalt weed wacker and a hedge trimmer. The batteries hold up well and the tools themselves are really good. I'm really impressed. Sure beats those small gas operated tools that would never start.
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I've got a Kobalt weed wacker and a hedge trimmer. The batteries hold up well and the tools themselves are really good. I'm really impressed. Sure beats those small gas operated tools that would never start.
Thread drift - I've got the Ryobi 40 volt string trimmer and leaf blower. I'm really impressed with the power on both. Even if the batteries only last 20-25 minutes, as an official retired guy, that's break time for me anyway. :laugh:
On the Kobalt, I've got a few of the hand tools and their auto-darken welding helmet. I'm really happy with the helmet. It has the 3M technology, so they didn't skimp, and the price was reasonable.
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I've been purchasing more and more Kobalt tools. I know a couple of people here have had bad things to say about them, but I'm actually finding them to be quite good bargains for the money.