Law Bans Cash for Second Hand Transactions

[TechMan]

http://www.klfy.com/story/15717759/second-hand-dealer-law

LA House Bill 195 says that "those who buy and sell second had goods cannot use cash to make those transactions."  This is an attempt to track copper thieves and their associated ilk. This bill encompasses Goodwill, garage sales, flea markets.  Pawn shops are still allowed to deal in cash, since they keep records.

[makattak]

Louisiana just made the list of states I never want to move to.

[dogmush]

Pardon my ignorance, but how will they square that with

this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private

Which I've always thought was backed up by some USC somewhere.

[Fly320s]

Pardon my ignorance, but how will they square that with
Which I've always thought was backed up by some USC somewhere.

It must not be since many businesses won't take cash as normal procedure. Most airlines don't take cash for onboard purchases.  Apartment managers don't take cash for rent, deposits, or even application fees.

[mtnbkr]

Louisiana just made the list of states I never want to move to.

All it took for me was a trip.  Of course, I could do without the entirety of the Gulf Coast. 

Chris

[Perd Hapley]

A couple of years ago, I would have assumed this law would be hastily repealed and/or ignored. These days, I'm not so sure. Still not sure how this would be enforced at a garage sale.

[Lee]

All it took for me was a trip.  Of course, I could do without the entirety of the Gulf Coast. 

U don lak da Redneck Riviera?

[mtnbkr]

U don lak da Redneck Riviera?

Can't stand the place.  Folks live in Mobile, otherwise I wouldn't go.

Chris

[TechMan]

It must not be since many businesses won't take cash as normal procedure. Most airlines don't take cash for onboard purchases.  Apartment managers don't take cash for rent, deposits, or even application fees.

Is that company policy or state/federal law?

[roo_ster]

A couple of years ago, I would have assumed this law would be hastily repealed and/or ignored. These days, I'm not so sure. Still not sure how this would be enforced at a garage sale.

In Louisiana?  At gunpoint and with confiscation (and subsequent loss of evidence).

[Perd Hapley]

In Louisiana?  At gunpoint and with confiscation (and subsequent loss of evidence).

I presume you're alluding to the Hurricane Katrina gun buyback takeback program?

No, really, are they going to stop at every yard sale and church rummage sale they come across?

[SADShooter]

I think roo_ster was writing broadly regarding the ethos of law enforcement in Louisiana, without specific reference to Katrina. If I'm correct, he's got a point.

[Jamisjockey]

It must not be since many businesses won't take cash as normal procedure. Most airlines don't take cash for onboard purchases.  Apartment managers don't take cash for rent, deposits, or even application fees.

There is a distinct difference between companies refusing to take forms of legal tender (checks, for example), and a state government outlawing the use of fiat cash. 
Very rarely would I say that the Feds have the right.  In this case, the US currency certainly should trump state law. 

I presume you're alluding to the Hurricane Katrina gun buyback takeback program?

No, really, are they going to stop at every yard sale and church rummage sale they come across?

Some jurisdictions have stopped lemonade stands for operating without appropriate licensing.....

[dogmush]

There is a distinct difference between companies refusing to take forms of legal tender (checks, for example), and a state government outlawing the use of fiat cash. 
Very rarely would I say that the Feds have the right.  In this case, the US currency certainly should trump state law. 

That's kinda what I was (inarticulately) getting at.  Isn't the whole point of fiat currency that the central bank says you have to take it?  I mean, if a state gov can say it isn't legal tender for some things doesn't that run afoul of the whole fiat thing?

[Perd Hapley]

There is a distinct difference between companies refusing to take forms of legal tender (checks, for example), and a state government outlawing the use of fiat cash. 
Very rarely would I say that the Feds have the right.  In this case, the US currency certainly should trump state law. 

Some jurisdictions have stopped lemonade stands for operating without appropriate licensing.....

Yeah, that's why I can see this law actually being enforced in thrift stores and the like, where it doesn't even accomplish its ostensible goal. It's just that, on a Saturday morning, there's a lot of yard sales going on. And unless you start requiring people to keep books, how do you prove anything? A little bit of cash means nothing. If you have no checks, well, you haven't sold anything yet. I could think of more creative ways to do things, like staking out the place or undercover stings, but that's a lot to go through for, uh, nothing.

[RoadKingLarry]

All it took for me was a trip.  Of course, I could do without the entirety of the Gulf Coast. 

Chris

I have some very fond memories Of my time stationed at Pensacola. (I also have a few weekends I can't remember at all).

Of course that was 30+ years ago and the place has likely changed some.

[dogmush]

I have some very fond memories Of my time stationed at Pensacola. (I also have a few weekends I can't remember at all).

Of course that was 30+ years ago and the place has likely changed some.

Most of FL's gulf coast is still pretty cool.  We don't really like being associated with AL, LA, and MS.

[zxcvbob]

Notice it says "buy and sell".  If you are only a buyer or only a seller, the law doesn't apply.  (it's one of those "meaning of is" things)  

[roo_ster]

I think roo_ster was writing broadly regarding the ethos of law enforcement in Louisiana, without specific reference to Katrina. If I'm correct, he's got a point.

Yep.

No, they won't roust every yard sale, just those that look like they have something worth taking or those that advertise particular items in the paper, along with the yard sale announcement.

Let me put it this way:
I know LEOs who work their way into particular crimes' investigation to get leads on real estate, buy before the demand hits, and then sell for profit.  The smart ones are working the angles no less than your average smart mobbed up guy does.  Lest you think these guy are the "dirty" cops, the ones I know who do this maintain clean records, with nothing but the usual "disgruntled customer" complaints against them.

[KD5NRH]

Not anywhere near the same extent, but here's what our new police chief is trying to get through the city council.

http://wp.me/p1mkgF-4V

I got the word out to the scrap metal folks, who contacted a few other dealers that would be affected, but there are at least a few more stores in town that would be hit hard by this (they don't keep electronic inventory, buy large mixed lots, etc.) and haven't heard yet, so I'll be making a few extra stops next week with copies of the proposal.

[Jamisjockey]

Yeah, that's why I can see this law actually being enforced in thrift stores and the like, where it doesn't even accomplish its ostensible goal. It's just that, on a Saturday morning, there's a lot of yard sales going on. And unless you start requiring people to keep books, how do you prove anything? A little bit of cash means nothing. If you have no checks, well, you haven't sold anything yet. I could think of more creative ways to do things, like staking out the place or undercover stings, but that's a lot to go through for, uh, nothing.

Sure. Gives the cops a chance to "do something", without putting themselves at real risk.  Also, being Louisiana, it gives them a new subsect of the population to shake down.

That's kinda what I was (inarticulately) getting at.  Isn't the whole point of fiat currency that the central bank says you have to take it?  I mean, if a state gov can say it isn't legal tender for some things doesn't that run afoul of the whole fiat thing?

Yeah I have real doubts that the state can legally say currency can't be accpeted. 
Private businesses, however, put restrictions on currency all the time. 

[Fly320s]

Is that company policy or state/federal law?

Company policy.  Reduces the theiving.

[MechAg94]

Given what they claim the law is supposed to be targeting, there are likely much better ways to do this.

[Jamisjockey]

Given what they claim the law is supposed to be targeting, there are likely much better ways to do this.

Funny enough, pawn shops are already required in many places to do this.  Thumbprinting and ID checks of sellers is pretty common.

[zahc]

On the other hand, if this is upheld, then it's quite blow for fiat currency. The Legal Tender doctrine is the only thing that keeps Gresham's law in effect.