Did I over-react or under-react?

[AZRedhawk44]

I was at Walmart yesterday.

I walked into the store, and it's one of those giant walmarts with a grocery store too.  Two middle eastern guys are standing in the lobby, walking slowly, between the registers and the produce area.  Both are dressed pretty well in slacks and button-up shirts, and one has a large backpack on, maybe 2500 cubic inches.

The one with the backpack has very negative body language.  Arms crossed, eyes moving all over.

I immediately got really far away from them and went to the back of the store.  I thought it over a bit, and wasn't sure if I should inform a store employee, call the police, or just leave it be.

I drift around back to the front of the store, but way on the other side from where the middle eastern guys were (I made a big U around the back basically) and they were walking slowly, taking notice of everything around them, same negative body language.  I got away from them again.

I picked up my purchases and noticed that these guys had split up now, and the guy with the pack was in the middle of the store in the clothing department.  I can't remember exactly, but I think it was the girls' clothing department.

I got in line at a register, and I saw the guy with the backpack leave the store without any purchases.  He came back in again with his other buddy (who didn't make any purchases either, evidently) and they went into the produce area again.  I took a picture of backpack-man with my cell phone and looked for a manager at the store.

I didn't find a manager, but I did tell the nearest non-Opie-ish employee I could find and pointed the guys out.  I left right after that.

But guys... this felt just like either:
1)  CAIR screwing around looking for a "racial profiling" lawsuit to latch onto, or
2)  a dry run of an attack with a "martyr" and his handler.

What's the appropriate response?

[Manedwolf]

I don't think you overreacted at all.

An awful lot of civilians in Israel and various ickystans have seen such a thing, right before a loud bang, screams and flying limbs. It's only a matter of time before it happens here.

A backpack that large in a store, plus the negative/nervous body language is suspicious enough, no matter what ethnicity someone appears to be.

Could well have been a dry run, yes. Remember, Thanksgiving is coming up, along with the shopping day right after.

[Paddy]

That's very freaky.  I would have been on it earlier, though, and gone directly to a cashier and quietly asked for the manager or security and explained why.  Some funky lawsuit would be the last thing on my mind.

[Brad Johnson]

Sounds to me like a couple of sticky-fingered bozos on a "procurement run" for their own personal gain.  Probability is against it being terrorist related, but high for it being an unpaid self-checkout.

Brad

[jefnvk]

Second the opinion that the people that would be most interested would be loss prevention.

[Manedwolf]

That's very freaky.  I would have been on it earlier, though, and gone directly to a cashier and quietly asked for the manager or security and explained why.  Some funky lawsuit would be the last thing on my mind.

I would have looked for a manager, myself. The average Wal-Mart cashier I've run across, well...um...let's just say that "rapid comprehension of unexpected developments" is not a job requirement. Neither is English.

[Jamisjockey]

Send an email to your local FBI office along with the picture.

[AZRedhawk44]

I sent a tip via their website (FBI) and offered the pic if they want it.

[AZRedhawk44]

Wow, just got off the phone with the FBI.

They're fast with that tip line.

They don't want the pic yet, and they thanked me for the info.  Don't know if they will dig further on it or not.

But at least they have a fast phone center.

[Manedwolf]

Wow, just got off the phone with the FBI.

They're fast with that tip line.

They don't want the pic yet, and they thanked me for the info.  Don't know if they will dig further on it or not.

But at least they have a fast phone center.

That just makes you wonder if they're really going to act on it, or if they just want to make sure they're not being pranked with tips. Dunno.

I've been surprised with the actual on-the-ball reaction of feds lately, though, so dunno. They popped up right away here and questioned people who made threats on web forums after the Browns got taken down...knew who they were, where they were, everything. I was a bit shocked at how efficient they were...and how they actually had been monitoring web boards. Not so 1950's anymore.

[charby]

I don't think you overacted. Outside of some suicide bombing run through they could have been casing the joint for theft or maybe looking for pork products and throwing a fit about that in a suit against Walmart.

-C

[De Selby]

How did you know they were middle eastern?

[Balog]

Sounds to me like a couple of sticky-fingered bozos on a "procurement run" for their own personal gain.  Probability is against it being terrorist related, but high for it being an unpaid self-checkout.

Brad

Yep.

They popped up right away here and questioned people who made threats on web forums after the Browns got taken down...knew who they were, where they were, everything.

That's a bit scary. Wonder who the Fed's are on this board? 

[Manedwolf]

They popped up right away here and questioned people who made threats on web forums after the Browns got taken down...knew who they were, where they were, everything.

That's a bit scary. Wonder who the Fed's are on this board? 

Heh heh.. Well, these were nutty extreme anarchist/down with government/f the police sorts, so they were probably being watched anyway. It was all over the local news, is how I know of it. I just hope they're watching terrorist groups as well. It was just startling to see they were actually so on the ball with their response.

[De Selby]

Heh heh.. Well, these were nutty extreme anarchist/down with government/f the police sorts...

There are a lot of those sorts around alright, but I don't call the FBI when I see a "caucasian male" dressed in a field jacket and cheap combat boots wandering suspiciously around Wal-Mart with a camoflauge pattern backpack.

If there were 1 real terror attack for every 100,000 "suspicious activity by guys that I suspect might be from somewhere between Gibraltar and Burma" incidents, we'd all be dead.

[AZRedhawk44]

How did you know they were middle eastern?

You're kidding, right?

My GF is Sri Lankan and muslim (non-practicing, kinda like a "jack mormon").  I can usually even tell Indian from Bangladeshi from Pakistani.

They sure as heck weren't Irish.

[AZRedhawk44]

There are a lot of those sorts around alright, but I don't call the FBI when I see a "caucasian male" dressed in a field jacket and cheap combat boots wandering suspiciously around Wal-Mart with a camoflauge pattern backpack.

Those guys are at Walmart to buy ammo for a day at the range.

Even the Browns, Weavers and Kuresh's of that group don't blow up walmarts.  It's not their MO.

[Manedwolf]

How did you know they were middle eastern?

You're kidding, right?

My GF is Sri Lankan and muslim (non-practicing, kinda like a "jack mormon").  I can usually even tell Indian from Bangladeshi from Pakistani.

They sure as heck weren't Irish.

Now look what you did! You blew shootinstudent's attempt to start a CAIR bleat out of the water. 

[De Selby]

How did you know they were middle eastern?

You're kidding, right?

My GF is Sri Lankan and muslim (non-practicing, kinda like a "jack mormon").  I can usually even tell Indian from Bangladeshi from Pakistani.

They sure as heck weren't Irish.

No, I'm not kidding.  What tipped you off to them being middle eastern?  

How would having familiarity with subcontinent types make you good at spotting Arabs and Persians?  

I'm asking the question because you went in the direction of thinking this is maybe CAIR looking for a racial profiling claim, so I'd like to know what role racial features actually played in your view of the situation.

[wooderson]

Even the Browns, Weavers and Kuresh's of that group don't blow up walmarts.  It's not their MO.

Given the level of vitriol I've seen from some parties about Wal-Mart "betrayin' Amurrica" and everything, I don't know that I would place a wager on the overall wingnut attitude toward the company.

[De Selby]

Even the Browns, Weavers and Kuresh's of that group don't blow up walmarts.  It's not their MO.

Given the level of vitriol I've seen from some parties about Wal-Mart "betrayin' Amurrica" and everything, I don't know that I would place a wager on the overall wingnut attitude toward the company.

There's also the fact that retail store terrorist attacks have only been carried out by Americans.  There hasn't been a single one undertaken by Muslim terrorist groups. 

If this were a scene on the whitehouse lawn, I'd be more inclined to say calling someone was right.  But brown skinned guys in walmart looking a little shady?  Thinking "terrorism" is taking the vigilance a bit too far.

[Balog]

There's also the fact that retail store terrorist attacks have only been carried out by Americans.

What incident are you referring to here?

[De Selby]

There's also the fact that retail store terrorist attacks have only been carried out by Americans.

What incident are you referring to here?

The Unabomber attacks on some strip malls, and the too numerous to cite shooting ramgpages.

Before we all get too carried away with racial profiling as a good idea, we should remember that "white guy who owns guns" fits the profile for like 99 percent of shooting sprees.

[AZRedhawk44]

4 things combined to make me extremely edgy of these guys.  Not just 1 thing on it's own.

1)  Large backpack in a crowded area.
2)  Nervous people not blending in to the routine of other folks nearby
3)  Race helped "firm" the deal... it did not initiate the deal.
4)  I did absolutely nothing until I noticed them leave the store with no purchases, then re-enter the store again.  That was the final straw.  I kept my suspicions to myself until that point.

Shootinstudent, sounds like you're looking for an excuse to be offended by my observations.    

[De Selby]

AZredhawk,

I'm not offended at all.  I simply want to know what racial features identified these people as middle eastern.

Surely, you would not have suspected terrorism if it weren't for their race.  So what racial features put you on alert for terrorism?