Author Topic: My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.  (Read 5358 times)

Monkeyleg

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« on: August 06, 2005, 10:39:42 PM »
I know I shouldn't be posting this on the 'net. If my wife finds out, I'm toast. (If anyone here tells my wife, I'll cut his face off and feed it to my dog).

This is really tough. I met my father-in-law back in 1968. I was a long-haired type, and he was a real, honest-to-God bigot, a hateful man, and cruel as I've ever known. It took years for us to even speak to each other.

He was worse than that, though. He beat my mother-in-law, and far worse. He abused my wife when she was very young. He did things that are so reprehensible that I cannot describe them here, both for the sake of Art's grammaw, for the sake of decorum, and just because I don't want those deeds known.

He gave up booze in the mid-1970's, and became a gentler man. Not gentle, just mildly gentler.

There are things that he did that I simply cannot forgive him for: the physical and psychological damage that he inflicted on my wife, her mother, and my brother-in-law. The three other kids that came after that period don't know anything about what went on. Not the beatings, the stabbings, or anything else. All they know--perhaps thankfully so--is that their dad had a drinking problem but overcame it.

When my wife (then girlfriend) confided in me what he had done, I couldn't believe it. It was completely outside what I knew to be "normal family life." And, believe me, some of my relatives were some real SOB's. But my FIL was like no other.

I have a selfish reason for holding these feelings: what my wife experienced under his reign of terror and abuse affected her, and obviously so. Imagine the most beautiful and engaging young woman walking down the street with her head hanging down, as if she was some sort of social outcast. She was smart, well-read, drop-dead beautiful, and able to charm everyone from the high school dropout to the owner of pretty much any company I worked for.

That's how it was when we met.

And that lack of self-esteem on her part continues today. Debbie has more friends, and more natural people skills, than I could ever learn, even if I took 1,000 Dale Carnegie courses.

All of the abuse that he put my wife through back then affected our relationship before we were married, while we lived together, and still affects us today. He should have done a lot of things to protect his daughter. He didn't do a damned thing. At the very least, he should have kept me away from her, as I wasn't exactly your choirboy type. At the very most, he should have kept her away from some really bad types, as in heroin dealers and even worse. He didn't even do that much. (No, she didn't do heroin, but she hung out with dealers, guys I would have liked to have taken out back then).

But here's where the metal meets the meat: he's dying, and fast. It's only been a couple of months since he got the lung cancer diagnosis, and now he has everything else, including pneumonia. He's down to less than 80 pounds. He looks like a Holocaust victim.

He's going to die, and very soon.

When we were at the hospice today, I watched him. He stared at my wife, and watched her as she moved around the room. I mentioned that tonight to my wife, and she said he was just staring off into space from the morphine.

No.

He was looking at her everywhere she went in the room. And I have to wonder: was he just watching her because she's his oldest daughter, his favorite daughter, or was he maybe remembering all the godawful stuff he'd done, and was trying somehow to make peace with God?

I know that ultimate forgiveness lies with the Lord, and not with me. And that I have a whole lot to be asked to be forgiven for myself before I cast the first stone.

But I really have a hard time just being nice to a dying man who ruined his daughter's life, and left me to try to piece it back together.

I'd like to ask him how he feels about what he did to his daughter. I'd like to ask him how he feels about putting his wife through a living Hell. I'd like to ask him if he's afraid of death.

I'm not looking for answers. Hell, I don't think I even posed a question.

It's just another life episode.

Winston Smith

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2005, 10:57:27 PM »
This has got to be hard for you, and your wife.

He sounds like one sick man... both spiritually and physically, deserving of your pity, not your hate, at this point.

What follows is only my take. I humbly ask that you only listen to it if you like what you hear, all advice/counsel is subject to the acid test of "will it work in my life?"

There was a point somewhere back there labeled "point of no return." We will all come up with a different point... the lack of repentance, the original or subsequent transgressions... however there came a point where there was to be no recompence on this earth -- the point where the damage became irreparable. With the type of things I think you're talking about, it was probably early on.

My maternal grandfather sounds similar to the man you're talking about. Never met him. Passed away before I was born. While I'm not so sure that I'm glad he's dead, I'm definitely glad I never had to met him.

I'm pretty firmly in the "dunno what happens after death" camp, but it pleases me to beleive that tortured souls like my grandfather and your father in law get what they need in terms of both punishment and healing.

If I was in your case, that's what I would run with.


EDIT: I think the key here is humility. Are you really reconstructing your wife's life as you say in the end of your post? Or are you just helping her reconstruct her own life? Or are you both just allowing time/god do their work?

Also: I submit to you, does it really matter if you're nice to him or not? Do your feelings really matter here? You don't care for this fellow at all -- understandable. However, this is not about your feelings. This is about your wife and a dying old man.

I haven't been through many situations like this, but I imagine that there will be plenty of time to think about this when it's all over. Right now, if it were me, I would focus on being cordial with the FIL and helping out your wife wherever you can.
Jack
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Tallpine

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2005, 12:25:47 AM »
If it's any consolation...

My FIL is persona-non-grata at our home.  He doesn't even know where we live anymore.  We moved out of state and only comminicate to that side of the family via phone and po box (our address is not listed in directory).  That's as much for his safety anymore as our own.

The worst part of it is his posing as "fine christian man" all those decades while at the same time finding every opportunity to be around little girls and get them off alone with him.  What I at one time thought to be a one time failing has been discovered to be a lifelong pattern.

I guess you could say that I don't have mixed feelings at all about him
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2005, 12:28:49 AM »
Dick, Winston is right. It's not your battle. Let your wife decide what she wants from this last bit of time and support it, even if it kills you. He's dying and nothing you can say to him will change the facts. He either knows it and accepts it, or never will.

RevDisk

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2005, 12:43:37 AM »
Your life is your own.  That said, regrets have a nasty habit of sticking with you.  Seems like time is short.  Which would bother you more years down the road?   Keeping silent, or asking the questions?


Some folks say forgive and forget.  Maybe they're right.  Maybe not.  That's for each man to decide for himself.   If some good could come out of it...   Maybe you could get some answers, maybe not.   Could be he is honestly sorry for his behavior and is too stubborn to make his peace before he dies.   I don't know your wife, but I've known many monsters like your FIL and known too many victims of such monsters.  Many spend a good part of their life wondering if the monster had any remorse for their actions.



The closest I ever came to such a situation was a guy I hated.  Flat out hated.   He was indeed a monster and I almost dated his daughter.  Almost because he blackmailed his daughter into having little to do with me, that he knew of.  We still talked whenever he was out of town.  I didn't put up with him, and we nearly came to exchanging fists more than once.   Her mother was an apologist, and in denial about everything.    "It's not his fault. Don't make him angry.  He can't control himself when he loses his temper.  It's not his fault."   Her mom annoyed me more than her father.   I didn't hate her, but she drove me up the wall.  

He was on several different types of medication.  Bad heart, hypertension, everything.  Basically, everything you get with a lifetime of alcohol, poor diet and lack of exercise.   He used to down his pills with whiskey and still smoked two packs a day.

I don't recall if he had a stroke or a heart attack.  I think it was a heart attack.   He keeled over in the smoke area.   Someone called for an ambulence, someone else asked if anyone knew who he was.  I said I did.  They asked me to talk to him and keep him calm until the ambulence showed up.  

I walked up to him, knelt beside him, and looked into his eyes.   The 'clean' version of what I said was "Burn in hell", mixed with plenty of stronger language.  He turned even more grey, swore back at me and then shut up.  Ambulance showed up, and he died shortly after at the hospital.   I have no way of being sure, but there's good odds I was the last person he talked to before he died.  


I told his daughter that he wasn't in pain when he passed, and that he said he was sorry for everything he did.  That he begged for her forgiveness.   That his last wish was for her to take care of her mom, and hoped she could find it in her heart to forgive him dispite of the things he did to her.

It was all lies.   He was a monster until his last second on this earth and I sincerely hope that he's given all the pain he dished out in the afterlife.    Did my words help him pass quicker?  I sincerely hope so.   I had absolutely zero sympathy for him and all the monsters like him.    His daughter went to college, fixed up her life and last I heard from her was that she was planning on getting married to a guy that seemed decent enough.   My only wish is that he would have had the humanity to die at least a decade earlier.


I didn't have to look into her eyes every day.  Would I have said the things I said if I was planning on spending the rest of my life with her?  I don't know.  I really don't.  I don't really have any answers either.  Life sometimes is not a pretty place.

Winston and Barbara are probably right.  But you have to look in the mirror every day, not us.   Best of luck mano.


"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.
And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
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telewinz

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2005, 01:13:33 AM »
What action/reaction can you do AND live with the rest of your life?  Some people cannot be forgiven by other people, that takes the extreme patience and understanding of a deity.  Forgiveness does not mean acceptance, it can just mean deferment of your judgment.  He is an alcoholic, he is weak and he is a no good S.O.B., whatever you decide seems reasonable to me...but don't expect to feel "good" about your decision.  Sometimes it's just not possible.  Your father-in-law was born into a World in which he could not cope and did not ask to enter yet your wife seems to be one of God's Chosen people.  Whats best for her and you, not that S.O.B., his peace is his problem and the burden cannot be shared.
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Monkeyleg

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2005, 12:47:33 PM »
RevDisk, that sounds like what I'd like to do, but I won't. As others have said, this is between my wife and her father. I'll just do what I can to help her.

Odd, but I haven't given much thought to all of this until he became gravely ill.

P95Carry

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2005, 08:21:17 AM »
Bottom line for me is - there are some things folks do that cannot be forgotten - or forgiven - not by mortals anyways - and I am one such.

I am tolerant of much but if the actions of another offend my moral values (which happen to be those we most hold dear) then I harbor grudge and sometimes seek or wish for retribution (within legal bounds!).  I'd call it ''balancing the books''.

Dick - in your situation I would expect to feel just the same loathing and disgust for all he seems to have done - mainly because it would appear he has (in my book) been evil.  Like with many bad guys - evil is within and I find it hard to achieve any forgiveness.  Mean sob ain't I!

On a much lower level - I recall some years back when my Mom's surviving sister got ill and died.  I did not I fear find much cause for grief because tho she was a younger sister, she had over many years done things against my Mom which I could not condone - and this was worse in later years.  Not so much evil in this case - just downright mean and hurtful.  My Mom died over two years ago but I still tend to harbor a grudge for what that sister inflicted on my Mom - guess I always will.
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Big_R

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2005, 10:25:14 AM »
A couple things I've learned the hard way:

1.  You can't control what happens to you.  You can only control your response to what happens to you.
2.  Calling an SOB an SOB doesn't hurt them nearly as much as forgiving them.

Ryan

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2005, 03:28:55 PM »
There was some hard advice I read in the Old Testament.  I forget where.  The notion was that one should repay bad with good.  I thought at the time, "whoa, I can't do that."  Then I continued to read ...'and in so doing you heap burning coals upon his head.'  Hmmmm.  I've thought much about that over the years and actually have implemented it from time to time. (Mostly because It's easy to forget advice of this nature, heh.)  Sometimes it causes the other party to think about his actions, and generally I have always felt the better for it as I transferred the bad back to him by doing good, even if he's unaware.  (And some people are so bad or even evil and your reaction is meaningless to them)
I guess the point is what is the condition of your emotion at the end of the day?  Forgiveness for me seems to mitigate my dispepsia, mostly.  It is also a good thing to know that your unexpected kind response to crappy behaviour sometimes benefits the dolt as well.
I also understand that perhaps their are limits, though.  Some New Testament advice also states IN SO FAR AS POSSIBLE, live at peace with your neighbor.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Strings

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2005, 08:43:37 PM »
RevDisk: remind me to never get on your bad side...

 Seems most of the spiritual suggestions are coming from the Christians, and that's cool. From this Pagan, however, I'd say the "Rule of Three" happened to come down on this SOB's head, and that's a good thing. Now you just have to support your wife through the ordeal...

 If ya need anything, let me know. Heck... for the next four weeks, I'll be heading through Milwaukee every friday, and I gots no problem stopping if ya need to vent or something. Or, if the two of you need a break within the next four weeknds, I'll see if I can't get you on the guest list at the Ren Faire (getting away from everything familiar helped me out when mom died)...

Monkeyleg

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2005, 12:46:01 PM »
Thanks for the offer, Hunter. I've been to the Renaissance Fair just once, and that was enough.

Too many guys in tights. And I haven't even seen you in tights yet! Wink

Strings

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2005, 06:58:11 PM »
I wear pants (essentially). Although I need another kilt... Wink


 And I wasn't making the offer for YOUR sake: it MIGHT help distract the wife during her time of grief (assuming she IS grieving: if she's dancing for joy, there's no problem then). Besides: it would give me a chance to meet her (we have SO much to talk about)... >Smiley

Monkeyleg

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2005, 10:45:54 PM »
Well, my father-in-law died at 8:20 pm CST, just a few hours ago.

No matter my personal issues with him, it was really hard to watch him deteriorate in a matter of weeks. Every doctor always tells you about how tough cancer is. I smoke 4.5 packs a day, my wife 2 packs a day, and we're going to go the full route--hypnosis, patches, gum, pills, group therapy--once the ordeal of her dad passing is behind her. I don't want to see Debbie looking like that, and I'd rather shoot myself than get to that point.

Going to visit him the last several weeks changed my feelings. Not my anger at what he had done thirty years ago, but what he has been the last couple of months: a father whose children have had to watch die in a day-by-day process that's just unbearable.

One regret I have is not having the chance to ask him if he was sorry for what he had done to my wife when she was just twelve, and to his wife for all the hell he delivered upon her. Maybe that question didn't need to be asked. I suspect he was thinking about all that while he was thinking about what comes next, as in meeting Saint Peter.

He seemed to be calm with the idea of dying. In fact, he told the doctors and the nurses to not do anything for him, either with feeding tubes or blood transfusions or anything else. He was ready to go.

In his defense, he worked hard for the City of Milwaukee plowing snow, running bulldozers, and every other type of equipment he could get his hands on. He worked for the city for 45 years, and never took a sick day. That's unbelievable to me. He had to be hung over a whole lotta days, but he still showed up for work.

He also served in the Navy, as a submariner, mechanic, and other jobs he was too bored to talk about. He was in the Pacific from 1944, and stayed through the reconstruction of Japan until 1948.

He worked hard, and could have bought himself one of the fancy cars he always talked about, ones that his friends bought. Yet he drove beaters so that all of his five kids could go to a Catholic school, all so his kids could get a better education. He and my mother-in-law paid $2000 a year for each of those five kids to go to a Catholic school.

He and I didn't really hit it off until he realized that I was a motorhead as well. One of the tests of being a real "Baker" boy was being able to tear a motor apart, put it back together, and have it run on the first spin of the starter. When Frank realized I was one of "those," we got a lot closer.

And I realized early on that he wasn't shy about getting me to help him work on his cars. I spent a lot of hours under his cars doing brake jobs, suspension work, tune-ups, and even exhaust system work.

Honestly, I don't know why I'm writing all of this except to figure out how I feel about his passing, short-term and long-term.

Short-term, I'm torn apart. All I can do is try to help Debbie.

Long-term? I really don't know. He brought to me (by fatherhood) an incredibly beautiful young woman, more well-read in the classics as well as the contemporary writers, more street-wise, and more charming than any young lady I'd ever met. And one who knew how to turn even the simplest times into a great afternoon. And, oh, yes, I'll be honest: she was the hottest-looking young woman I've ever seen.

How a drop-dead beauty like Debbie would marry a mug like me is a mystery.

At the same time, he brought to me (by that same fatherhood) a beautiful young woman so full of self-doubt that even today she has no confididence in her abilities. Never mind that she has hordes of former employees from when she was manager of a retail store still call her. They loved her then, and still do. Fellow employees from other jobs stay in constant touch. She has friends from California to New York who beg her to come visit. And these are friends of ten or twenty or even thirty years.

Her father died just hours ago, and I'm crying. So, just regard this post as one of those "I'm crying" posts, and move along. It's just much easier for me to write word-after-word here  than it is to call my mother-in-law and tell her just how I feel.

All I'm doing here is saying in writing what I can or maybe  can't say to the  rest of the family.

Thanks, Oleg, for giving me a blank sheet of internet paper to whine on. Wink

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2005, 02:13:51 AM »
I'm sorry, Dick.

grampster

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2005, 01:14:34 PM »
Dick,

     Sometime things are hard.  Sometime things are easy.  Always there is life.  You are valued.  Hang in there.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2005, 01:30:18 PM »
Condolences to you and yours, Dick.  Time will reduce the rawness of the feelings you currently have, and your friends are here to help as needed.

Preacherman

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2005, 03:59:06 PM »
The old, old question we should always ask ourselves is:  "Will it matter that I was?"

Now that your FIL is dead, ask yourself:  How can I ensure that his existence does matter?  What legacy can I draw from his life to pass on to those I love?

I'd respectfully suggest that he must have had some good points in his life - we're none of us all bad.  (Even Hitler liked dogs!)  Those things you can share in your memories of him.  Also, you can use the bad things as lessons for others.  I don't know how much you'll be able to share about this without causing problems for your wife, but you can use his faults as lessons, particularly the pain that they must have caused him, not just those who suffered under them.  In this way, you can turn the negative into a positive - and who knows?  Perhaps one day he'll be able to thank you for doing so!

Just a few thoughts.  God bless.  I'll pray for his soul.
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Monkeyleg

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2005, 05:53:10 PM »
Thank you all for your replies. I don't want to drag this topic out, but APS is just a good place to write thoughts, even if they're just to one's self.

My wife saw her father for the last time, held his head and told him that she loved him, and would love him forever.

His reply was the last word he spoke to her, and the only word she'll remember. He just asked, "why?"

Man, that's a real shot to the gut.

Azrael256

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2005, 11:24:25 PM »
Quote
How a drop-dead beauty like Debbie would marry a mug like me is a mystery.
Seems pretty obvious to me.

And what you write here isn't just to yourself.  All of us have either been there, or will be someday.  Anything we can learn about love and forgiveness, even in such a seemingly trivial place as here, is worth more than we can pay for it.

I'm sorry for your loss, and the whole lot of you are in my prayers.

MaterDei

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2005, 04:35:12 PM »
Monkeyleg, Debbie is a keeper, hang on to her.  Fwiw, she has married a keeper too.

I've said a prayer for your FIL and I'll say prayers for you and Debbie too.

God bless and good luck.

MaterDei

Strings

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My father-in-law is dying, and I have mixed feelings.
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2005, 07:15:56 PM »
Dick (and I'm being serious here, mark the date down): if there's anything Spoon or I can do, call