Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: makattak on May 02, 2018, 09:52:15 AM
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https://apnews.com/d3efeda8ffb74b79b367fce426780d6f
As of today, there will no longer be any Boy Scouts. They will just be "Scouts".
Sad to see an organization so lose sight its intended purpose.
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The program for the older boys and girls will largely be divided along gender-lines, with single-sex units pursuing the same types of activities, earning the same array of merit badges and potentially having the same pathway to the coveted Eagle Scout award.
Surbaugh said that having separate units for boys and girls should alleviate concerns that girls joining the BSA for the first time might be at a disadvantage in seeking leadership opportunities.
I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.
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I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.
If the BSA had re-organized into two "separate but equal" branches a long time ago, I don't think I would have had a problem with it. To move away from gender-specificity in today's climate is much different. We can't have anything nice, if the Left is involved. Look at how they managed to ruin that whole black people getting equal rights/having a black president thing. It's almost as if we'd all be better off without them.
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I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.
It was ruled unconstitutional once, and will very likely be declared unconstitutional here as well...
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Life was too simple when gender was something you were born with and couldn't just change whenever you felt like it.
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Life was too simple when gender was something you were born with and couldn't just change whenever you felt like it.
Gender is a language construct, not a biological one. Words have gender, people have sex. The word was hijacked to blur meanings.
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Words have gender, people have sex.
Not as true for married people.
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I'm confused. I thought we stopped doing "separate but equal" several decades ago.
Yeah, the SJWs will not stand for that.
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(https://i.imgur.com/04CgjPS.jpg)
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This is a big win for our side of the culture war. Girls have been participating in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for years now at the regional level. This is just acknowledging it at the BSA national level. And of course, girls have been in the Sea Scouts, Adventure Scouting, and Explorers portion of the BSA for longer than I've been alive.
Sorry about everyone's butthurt that's not letting them see it.. Don't let the facts get in the way. Like having segregated girl only and boy only troops for those who want them.
This is like the Trump presidency, you may need to look at who the enemies are to know if you're on the right side of the issue or not.
The GSA is PISSED, and by default I'm for anything that makes that bunch of crusty NYC rad-fem lesbians that use the girls and cookies as a fundraising ploy angry.
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(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31949459_2376685212345208_4260024159339282432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=cbf66b790f886d790a84ac325de001d1&oe=5B93C153)
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I challenge the nay-sayers to go to any Cub Scout outing. You''ll see the siblings (girls) there as well as the boys. They are already there doing the same thing as their brothers (without the awards and recognition). Plus Venturing (14-21 year olds), Explorers (career focused Scouts like Police, Nursing, Firemen, etc), and Sea Scouts have all been Co-Ed since the 1960's. So this is really nothing new.
The difference is that each Chartering Organization (e.g. Kiwanis, Rotary, PTA, Lions, etc.) gets to decide whether or not to admit girls to their unit, or form a new "Girls Only" unit. If they decide to allow girls, then there will be Girls Only Cub Scouts Dens (Dens are all kids in the same grade, there will be Boys Dens and Girls Dens). At the Troop Level, there will be Boys Patrols and Girls Patrols. The only time they will be together will be for Pack/Troop Meetings and Outings.
This was done based on the overwhelming feedback the BSA got from Parents that would very interested in the having a program that includes the entire family. Since the BSA has a very well tested and successful outdoor youth program that can be applied to both boys and girls, they would be inclined to sign-up their daughters.
And as previously mentioned the Rad-fem/leftist tilt of the GSA has turned many conservative parents off from having their daughters join. Here;s the difference in programs in a nutshell. Each group has a monthly magazine. Compare and Contrast:
(https://img.apmcdn.org/c721266de032890589e16e9f927af9a32fc363d3/normal/c5762a-20160923-girlslifeboyslife.jpg)
(https://i2.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tumblr_mutdiblaJr1r9xcpmo1_250.jpg?w=970)
(https://h2savecom.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/fotorcreated163.jpg?w=549&h=362)
* - The Scoutmaster for my son's Troop is married to Literature professor. She teaches a class on Monday nights Same night as the Troop's meeting. Guess where their two pre-teen daughters are that night? I can tell you that they are not auditing a class on Medieval French Poetry.
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And as previously mentioned the Rad-fem/leftist tilt of the GSA has turned many conservative parents off from having their daughters join.
The GSA has that?
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This is a big win for our side of the culture war. Girls have been participating in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for years now at the regional level. This is just acknowledging it at the BSA national level. And of course, girls have been in the Sea Scouts, Adventure Scouting, and Explorers portion of the BSA for longer than I've been alive.
Sorry about everyone's butthurt that's not letting them see it.. Don't let the facts get in the way. Like having segregated girl only and boy only troops for those who want them.
This is like the Trump presidency, you may need to look at who the enemies are to know if you're on the right side of the issue or not.
The GSA is PISSED, and by default I'm for anything that makes that bunch of crusty NYC rad-fem lesbians that use the girls and cookies as a fundraising ploy angry.
Big win? I'm more than a little skeptical.
GSA is ALREADY dying. That the BSA is poaching the few girls that aren't interested in the lib-fest that GSA has become is really no big deal. GSA is going to die, and soon, anyway.
Instead, the BSA has completely lost the point of its charter. It's no surprise, though, after they caved on homosexuals in the scouts, which is a related issue.
The point of an organization that allows boys to learn and interact as boys without the problems and concerns that occur when the sexes are mixed. (This is ESPECIALLY important during the teen years.)
Boys need to learn how to be men without the added pressures, dynamics, and conflicts that the presence of girls necessarily brings. Boys act differently when girls are around. (And, I will assume the reverse is true.)
BSA was one of the few organizations that stuck to their founding principles, recognizing this. Sadly, it will not be strengthened by this move, and as a "killing blow" to GSA, it will eventually turn into a "killing blow" for the BSA. BSA is already pretty well feminized by the myriad of restrictions placed on boys in the past 20-30 years. This will now be increasingly the case as females have greater and greater influences on the future of the organization.
(Or are you going to tell me that BSA won't change at all from having their membership shift from vast majority male to a much closer ratio?)
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mormon-church-to-sever-its-105-year-old-ties-to-the-boy-scouts-at-end-of-2019/ar-AAwYPgf?OCID=ansmsnnews11
And this is another result of trying to have your cake and eat it to. (Yes, the Mormon church says it's not about all the changes the BSA has made in the last 10 years... but it's all about the changes that have been made and what they say about the BSA's future course.)
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The LDS church would have left BSA eventually anyway, due to the need for a unified program for LDS youth throughout the world. But I have no doubt that the changes in the BSA in the past decade accelerated the decision by at least a few years.
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The LDS church would have left BSA eventually anyway, due to the need for a unified program for LDS youth throughout the world. But I have no doubt that the changes in the BSA in the past decade accelerated the decision by at least a few years.
Agreed. In talking with some LDS Scouters in the past, the BSA was convenient. LDS wanted their own youth program, but no one was wanting to take the initiative and create one. The changes to the BSA program in the last five years have pushed the LDS leadership to actually do what they've been talking about doing, and create their own youth program. No doubt some LDS youth will stay in Scouting, going for their Eagle. But, within a few years, BSA membership will drop. Estimates from within BSA put it at a 20%-30% drop. Of more concern though is that there will be a concurrent drop in funding/donations to BSA, as those LDS dollars go to their own program, and not to BSA.
I'm betting that there won't be a 150th anniversary celebration for Scouting. Between changing interests in the youth, people fed up with the changes to the program, and the financial struggles, it will be dead and gone before 2060.
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This is a big win for our side of the culture war. Girls have been participating in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for years now at the regional level. This is just acknowledging it at the BSA national level. And of course, girls have been in the Sea Scouts, Adventure Scouting, and Explorers portion of the BSA for longer than I've been alive.
Sorry about everyone's butthurt that's not letting them see it.. Don't let the facts get in the way. Like having segregated girl only and boy only troops for those who want them.
This is like the Trump presidency, you may need to look at who the enemies are to know if you're on the right side of the issue or not.
The GSA is PISSED, and by default I'm for anything that makes that bunch of crusty NYC rad-fem lesbians that use the girls and cookies as a fundraising ploy angry.
Yes.
My son dropped boy scouting shortly after he finished cub scouts- he's too heavily involved in sports to do much else. My younger daughter is nominally in Girl Scouts (its more of a social club for her and her peers than anything else). There is no comparison between the two organizations, I would absolutely support my daughter going BSA if she wanted to.
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The LDS church would have left BSA eventually anyway, due to the need for a unified program for LDS youth throughout the world. But I have no doubt that the changes in the BSA in the past decade accelerated the decision by at least a few years.
Do you know if the LDS youth program is open to non-LDS kids?
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But, within a few years, BSA membership will drop. Estimates from within BSA put it at a 20%-30% drop. Of more concern though is that there will be a concurrent drop in funding/donations to BSA, as those LDS dollars go to their own program, and not to BSA.
I think a lot of troops are based in churches, too. If (when) the LDS cuts off their relationship with the BSA, there will probably be a number of troops looking for a home, and a number that simply cease to exist.
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Imagine the horror if the Young Men's Christian Association started taking female or non-Christian members. S.M.O.D. will have to act on our behalf, it would be our only hope.
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Imagine the horror if the Young Men's Christian Association started taking female or non-Christian members. S.M.O.D. will have to act on our behalf, it would be our only hope.
I'll bet that what would happen is that very quickly, it would no longer have many young men, men, or any focus whatsoever on being Christian.
Probably still have "association" going for it, so 1 out of 4 ain't bad.
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I'll bet that what would happen is that very quickly, it would no longer have many young men, men, or any focus whatsoever on being Christian.
Might be more fun to stay there, though.
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I'll bet that what would happen is that very quickly, it would no longer have many young men, men, or any focus whatsoever on being Christian.
Probably still have "association" going for it, so 1 out of 4 ain't bad.
It doesn't have the "association," actually. Since they dropped the M, and the C, they only have the Y.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/12/ymca-changes-its-logo-to-just-the-y/
I did a little research on the YMCA, a few years ago. They were originally meant to help young, urban men (and later, travelling railroad workers) to live moral lives, and avoid the temptations of drink, gambling, whore-mongering, etc. While the loss of religious emphasis, and sex-segregation didn't spell the end of the world, they are certainly not the same organization they used to be.
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I think a lot of troops are based in churches, too. If (when) the LDS cuts off their relationship with the BSA, there will probably be a number of troops looking for a home, and a number that simply cease to exist.
LDS troops (and Packs) generally do not have non-LDS youth as members, simply because they heavily stress the Duty to God Aspect and it's LDS focused.
When the LDS pulls out, all those Troops and Packs will cease to exist as BSA units and simply become LDS Youth Group units.
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The LDS church would have left BSA eventually anyway, due to the need for a unified program for LDS youth throughout the world. But I have no doubt that the changes in the BSA in the past decade accelerated the decision by at least a few years.
Much easier to gundeck the advancement requirements if they don't have some pesky outside organization looking stuff over.
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I think a lot of troops are based in churches, too.
AFAIK, all the troops around here are church sponsored. IIRC, generally with one large church on the paperwork and several smaller ones contributing officially or otherwise. They're pretty hands off, though, and I doubt most Scouts could tell you which church sponsors their troop. Heck, I think ours met in two Baptist churches, (one of which sponsored the other major local troop at the time) a DoC and a Lutheran one while our building was being redone at one point, and it was sponsored by First Methodist.
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Do you know if the LDS youth program is open to non-LDS kids?
They haven't released many details about it yet, but I don't see why not. Non-LDS youth are always welcome at current church youth activities; kids in my congregation occasionally bring non-LDS friends when they're interested in the particular activity that's happening. Though the new program that's specifically replacing Scouting is likely to have a greatly expanded LDS-doctrine-based "Duty to God"-esque side to it, which may not appeal so much to non-LDS parents/kids.
Another aspect is the new program is likely to vary widely in different areas/congregations, as part of the reason for the change is to allow local leaders, families, and youth to customize things to their needs and interests. The specific needs and interests of a youth group in New York City or Paris, are likely different than a youth group in a village in Zimbabwe or rural Alaska. The flexibility is something I'm looking forward to. I was one of the leaders over the 11-year-old Boy Scouts in my congregation's troop for a few years up until late last year. While in general I supported scouting, I frequently chafed under the strict rank requirements I had to spend all our time working on.
I'd occasionally have a group of boys that would have really relished and benefited from, say, spending some time learning about basic car repair, or STEM activities, and had zero interest in learning lashings or pseudoscientific weather forecasting abilities. Merit badges allow some choice for sure, but the 11 year-olds were working on their ranks through 1st Class, not so much merit badges, as we just didn't have time for both. Not to say the general rank requirements aren't valuable things for young boys to learn (some more than others), but a fixed requirements list isn't truly one-size-fits-all, especially for a church with youth groups all over the world in anything from dense urban cities, to ultra-rural locations.
it will be interesting to see what they do with the 3 BSA councils in Utah, where 95% of the council membership is LDS. I imagine they'll have to combine them into a single council. There will definitely still be LDS boys participating in local troops, but it's bound to be a very small percentage of what they have now.
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Yes.
My son dropped boy scouting shortly after he finished cub scouts- he's too heavily involved in sports to do much else. My younger daughter is nominally in Girl Scouts (its more of a social club for her and her peers than anything else). There is no comparison between the two organizations, I would absolutely support my daughter going BSA if she wanted to.
This is what has reduced Boy Scout numbers more than any perceived liberal influence. Back when I was Boy Scout the only Sports were School-based, except for Little League Baseball over summer vacation. There were no outside sports leagues, parents didn't spend huge amounts of time and money to get little Timmy into Tournament/Travel Leagues and Professional Superstar's Extra Special Training Academy to help get your crumbcruncher to the Pro's. Most kids played a sport or two in High School (maybe three, if really athletic), but that was it. You played that sport in season, not year-round. Which left time to hang with friends, or participate in other activities. Like Scouting. Most of the sports we played were The Sandlot type games, with kids from the neighborhood, and whatever equipment you got as presents, nothing organized or run by adults like everything is today. Same with Music, Dance, etc. Used to be you had one hour of piano/violin or dance classes per week, and (maybe) an annual recital. Band was also a class in school. Now, it's 3-8 hours per week, monthly competitions and recitals, etc.
The push and pressure to turn your kid into a Pro Sports star or professional Musician/Dancer, etc. leaves families with little time and being pulled in numerous directions.
And that was the feedback we got from parents. They are very, very busy running kids to all these different activities, if there was one place to have all the kids involved they would be all for that. And Scouting already has a program that imparts the skills and values that most families want, unlike the GSA.
That's what drives the change. As I have previously point out. We're on the 13th Edition of the Handbook since 1910. So there's been change about every 10 years. There are many merit badges that are no longer offered, and new merit badges that reflect the changes in society and technology. But throughout all that, the basics and fundamentals of the twelve point of the Scout Law and the Scout Oath remain the same. But it's all the people that have zero connection to Scouting that are screaming the loudest about "Ahhh Scouting has gone all libtard !!!" and know nothing about the program.
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^I agree with all of that^
There are a lot of negatives... If I had a do-over, I probably would have pushed for less emphasis on sports (much of it is/was driven by his mother) and more time taking him fishing.
The big positives is that he stays really fit (he goes to the gym every day on his own and lifts with his friends), and has a lot of friends in HS that are on teams.
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While in general I supported scouting, I frequently chafed under the strict rank requirements I had to spend all our time working on.
And it never once occurred to you to have the boys do them instead? It's not grounds for excommunication. (Really. I promise. I checked CHI 1, and it's not in there. A couple years of disfellowshipment at the absolute worst.)
I'd occasionally have a group of boys that would have really relished and benefited from, say, spending some time learning about basic car repair,
Surprisingly carefully hidden in the Automotive Maintenance merit badge.
or STEM activities,
About a third of the merit badge list.
If the Church could have stopped looking at Scouting as nothing more than a way to give the kids an unearned Eagle rank for their future resumes as fast as possible, it does (or at least did, before the last several rounds of dumbing down requirements and nerfing activities) have a lot of other benefits that were removed from the LDS program.
and had zero interest in learning lashings
Sure, because nobody ever needs to tie stuff together.
or pseudoscientific weather forecasting abilities.
"Describe at least three natural indicators of impending hazardous weather, the potential dangerous events that might result from such weather conditions, and the appropriate actions to take." This ain't reading goat entrails. Dismissing basic knowledge of weather patterns is why retards end up trapped on top of a mountain in a blizzard or drowning in a flooded canyon.
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60+ years ago, I was a Cub Scout for many years but I only lasted about a year in Boy Scouts. I was a sailing instructor during the Summers. I learned marlinspike seamanship (knots and splices) from an Englishman who had single-handed a sailboat around the world. When I got to the knot typing merit badge, they failed me because I tied a bowline with a one-handed flip rather than the prescribed "The rabbit comes out of the hole, runs around the tree, and goes back into the hole" routine. Even then, I had a low tolerance for buffoons.
Maybe five or six years ago my wife and I attended the Eagle Scout ceremony for the son of one of her friends. I was shocked. When I was in the Boy Scouts, we wore uniforms -- as in, everything matched. These kids all wore BSA shirts, but that was it. Pants didn't match (mix of jeans and other styles and colors), belts didn't match, socks didn't match, footwear didn't match. And they ALL looked like they had been sleeping i their "uniforms" for at least a week. If I had a son of scouting age today, I doubt I'd let him join.
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Maybe five or six years ago my wife and I attended the Eagle Scout ceremony for the son of one of her friends. I was shocked. When I was in the Boy Scouts, we wore uniforms -- as in, everything matched. These kids all wore BSA shirts, but that was it. Pants didn't match (mix of jeans and other styles and colors), belts didn't match, socks didn't match, footwear didn't match. And they ALL looked like they had been sleeping i their "uniforms" for at least a week. If I had a son of scouting age today, I doubt I'd let him join.
When my oldest was looking at different Troops, we saw several that looked like this. I joked that they looked like they did nothing more than set down the XBox controller, wipe the Cheestos dust off their hands, and put on the tan shirt that was laying in a ball in the corner. He ended up joining a full uniform troop, which is what I ended up volunteering with. Footwear doesn't match, but everything else (socks included) does.
Apparently, that is a unit by unit choice. Some, like ours, wear uniforms all the time (even camping). Some wear full uniforms for formal occasions, and not for weekly meetings, camping trips, etc. Some, I guess their idea of Class A uniform is jeans without holes.
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I have should expected you'd be triggered by my post, KD5NRH.
And it never once occurred to you to have the boys do them instead? It's not grounds for excommunication. (Really. I promise. I checked CHI 1, and it's not in there. A couple years of disfellowshipment at the absolute worst.)
As I said, we were focused on rank advancements, the boys are free to pursue merit badges on their own, but we didn't have time to do it in our 11 year-old patrol meetings. Rank advancements were what I was asked to focus on by the troop committee, the scoutmaster, and the executive. Merit badges were the focus of the older Scouts. Regardless, some boys just aren't interested in Scouting at all. Another reason I'm happy with the split. Scouting is great, and is extremely beneficial for many boys, but it is not a one-size-fits-all end-all be-all program for all boys.
If the Church could have stopped looking at Scouting as nothing more than a way to give the kids an unearned Eagle rank for their future resumes as fast as possible, it does (or at least did, before the last several rounds of dumbing down requirements and nerfing activities) have a lot of other benefits that were removed from the LDS program.
Gee, I must have missed the Eagles for Resumes section of the LDS Scouting Handbook. There are wards that run Eagle mill programs, that's on them; it's certainly not church policy, and certainly not what is encouraged at Roundtable. I only signed off requirements that the boys actually achieved, and I know our Scoutmaster does the same.
Sure, because nobody ever needs to tie stuff together.
I'm not talking basic knots. When do you expect a resident of downtown Chicago or DC to need to lash-together a tower or a cooking tripod? Despite being a do-it-yourself type and comfortable in the back country, I've somehow managed to not run across a need to use actual lashings on anything (aside from artificially needing to do so at Scout camps and to teach the skill) for 37 years and running. Just because you like knowing how to make your own bike helmet by lashing matchsticks together with floss, and your own chainsaw chains by gluing chunks of angle iron onto bicycle chains with pine sap doesn't mean that's a necessary skill that everyone must know.
Are lashings "good" to know? Yes. Necessary? No. Good for a Scouting requirement? Sure. Being mandated via Scouting requirements to teach it to all boys under my care in my ward whether they care about Scouting or not? Not a fan. Glad to see it go away. That's all I'm saying.
This ain't reading goat entrails.
While there are several accurate techniques taught, a couple of the "techniques" taught in the Scout Handbook are about as accurate as reading goat entrails, which is why I made my original comment.
Look. I'm not saying Scouting doesn't teach valuable things, or it isn't beneficial. It is. I'm saying it's not a great fit for a unified worldwide church-related youth program for boys and girls. It's not.
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Gee, I must have missed the Eagles for Resumes section of the LDS Scouting Handbook. There are wards that run Eagle mill programs, that's on them; it's certainly not church policy, and certainly not what is encouraged at Roundtable.
So who was behind the push to add six more troop positions to the "while a ____ Scout, serve as ____ for _ months" requirements for Star, LIfe and Eagle? The only reason I can see behind that is so that the Eagle mills could crank more Scouts through faster, but they couldn't have made it happen without the support of the Church.
I'm not talking basic knots. When do you expect a resident of downtown Chicago or DC to need to lash-together a tower or a cooking tripod?
Interesting choices of cities; I'd expect those to benefit most from being able to make prison escape tools. Even when I was living in Dallas, it wasn't uncommon to need to lash a couple of sticks together to make the light bulb reaching thingy longer, temporarily repair the fake Christmas tree until a replacement could be had cheap at the after-Christmas sales, prank the CTO and attach a flag to my balcony rail. Tripods have other uses besides cooking, and there's always the possibility that one of those people might even wander outside the confines of the city once or twice in their life.
While there are several accurate techniques taught, a couple of the "techniques" taught in the Scout Handbook are about as accurate as reading goat entrails, which is why I made my original comment.
I don't see anything about it in the 7th Edition, and I don't have my 9th Edition handy, but I'd be surprised if the current BSA Handbook of Choosing a Motel Because the Outdoors is Icky and Has Bugs and Stuff includes much more than the instructions for a weather rock (https://weatherrockranch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/weather-rock-instructions.png).
EDIT: Found a 12th Edition PDF. Still not seeing anything way out there; the "weather signs" listed are the same ones that have been used for centuries, some even referenced by Christ Himself, for the simple reason that they're about as accurate as one can get in the absence of radar, a barometer or other methods most people don't have easy access to outside of a smartphone.
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Dude, chill. Scouts is good. Scouts for all is not a good fit for a global church. That's all.
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Even when I was living in Dallas, it wasn't uncommon to need to lash a couple of sticks together to make the light bulb reaching thingy longer, temporarily repair the fake Christmas tree until a replacement could be had cheap at the after-Christmas sales, prank the CTO and attach a flag to my balcony rail. Tripods have other uses besides cooking, and there's always the possibility that one of those people might even wander outside the confines of the city once or twice in their life.
I feel like this is just the same as people who are like "why do we need to teach such and such in school" Or "Why would you need to carry a knife with you". They have just removed themselves so far from it that they can't see any way that such things are very useful and can be used all the time for regular everyday things.
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Well that didn't take long, http://mobile.wnd.com/2018/05/condoms-required-at-scouts-24th-world-jamboree/
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"Always be prepared?"
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Wow, boys and girls in their late teens and early 20s at an event together, and some may engage in sex. I'm shocked by this. Shocked I say. ;/
Frankly, what I am shocked by is that someone involved in Scouts isn't sticking their heads in the sand, pretending that these young men and women aren't all virgins with no such desires. Far too many of the Scout volunteers I've met seem to ignore the fact that teens boys and girls think about sex a lot, and will engage if given a willing partner and 15 minutes of privacy.
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So far my Cub Scout Pack has 12 girls (or at least their parents) interested in joining (many already have brothers in the program), and we haven't started recruiting for the fall yet.
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/familyscouting/pdf/Updated-Family-Program-FAQ-10-26-17-547pm.pdf
The Scout Oath and Scout Law have not changed. This is simply the expansion of program that helps develops youth leadership, citizenship, and character. And benefits both Boys and Girls. And just to calm everyone who is not in Scouting nerves, teenage Boys and Girls will be separate units.
https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Scouts-BSA-FAQ-050218-2.pdf
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I feel like this is just the same as people who are like "why do we need to teach such and such in school" Or "Why would you need to carry a knife with you". They have just removed themselves so far from it that they can't see any way that such things are very useful and can be used all the time for regular everyday things.
Or they've decided they can be completely dependent on people like me to open their packages, non-twist-off bottles, etc.
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And just to calm everyone who is not in Scouting nerves, teenage Boys and Girls will be separate units.
With separate camps, and separate (but equal, of course) Jamborees?
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With separate camps, and separate (but equal, of course) Jamborees?
When the answer comes back "No, they'll be going to the same camps and Jamborees", they'll then accuse those who see the clear problem with that as being "behind the times".
And also that they are not the least bit shocked that the "Scouts" are having sex at those camps.
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And also that they are not the least bit shocked that the "Scouts" are having sex at those camps.
They don't appear to be surprised in the least:
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/22/boy-scouts-require-condoms-upcoming-world-jamboree/
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Here's the thing, making Scouting coed wasn't something I was a big fan of. But, if I had a daughter, I'd rather her be in Scouting BSA than the Girl Scouts. Better at teaching important life skills. I know, because I've seen First Aid taught in both programs. BSA classes were longer, and more in-depth, with skill testing at the end. The GSA class was over in two hours, with badges handed to everyone.
As for the whole boy/girl things, it's really no different than marching bands, youth groups, or other coed activities. You do due diligence to prevent the sex, keep them supervised, and teach the program. Yes, it will change, because boys will act differently with girls around, but the lessons are still the same, and still worth teaching.
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http://babylonbee.com/news/bigoted-boy-scouts-welcome-girls-but-still-exclude-all-49247-other-genders/
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http://babylonbee.com/news/bigoted-boy-scouts-welcome-girls-but-still-exclude-all-49247-other-genders/
That's funny!
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Here's the thing, making Scouting coed wasn't something I was a big fan of. But, if I had a daughter, I'd rather her be in Scouting BSA than the Girl Scouts. Better at teaching important life skills. I know, because I've seen First Aid taught in both programs. BSA classes were longer, and more in-depth, with skill testing at the end. The GSA class was over in two hours, with badges handed to everyone.
As for the whole boy/girl things, it's really no different than marching bands, youth groups, or other coed activities. You do due diligence to prevent the sex, keep them supervised, and teach the program. Yes, it will change, because boys will act differently with girls around, but the lessons are still the same, and still worth teaching.
This one time at band camp ...
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoEVPtVk9nE&feature=share
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Here's the thing, making Scouting coed wasn't something I was a big fan of. But, if I had a daughter, I'd rather her be in Scouting BSA than the Girl Scouts. Better at teaching important life skills. I know, because I've seen First Aid taught in both programs. BSA classes were longer, and more in-depth, with skill testing at the end. The GSA class was over in two hours, with badges handed to everyone.
As for the whole boy/girl things, it's really no different than marching bands, youth groups, or other coed activities. You do due diligence to prevent the sex, keep them supervised, and teach the program. Yes, it will change, because boys will act differently with girls around, but the lessons are still the same, and still worth teaching.
I have three girls. And I'd much rather them learn the lessons from the Boy Scouts than the Girl Scouts, because Girl Scouts are insane.
You know what I did? I found a different program (https://www.americanheritagegirls.org/program/emphases/) designed for girls that teaches them better lessons than the girl scouts.
That throw-away statement in your quote that I bolded is HUGE. It's not a, yeah, things are just different now. The point of Boy Scouts (and, similarly, the original girl scouts) was to free boys and girls from the pressures of the opposite sex and learn, grow, and develop for at least a short time.
I can recall being 14 years old. And, like any other 14 year old, I was a red-blooded male interested sex.
I can recall an entire 2 weeks where any concern about sex was pretty much absent (imaginations still existed.) Hiking with my troop through the mountains of New Mexico, exhausted many days, learning and experiencing and growing outside of those concerns. I did not appreciate what it meant, in fact I didn't even realize what had happened at the time, but looking back I can see how useful an experience that was.
I have no idea if Trail Life will grow to become as useful as Boy Scouts, but, for my boy's sake, I pray it does, as "Scouting" doesn't seem to understand the mission any longer.
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Hiking with my troop through the mountains of New Mexico, exhausted many days, learning and experiencing and growing outside of those concerns. I did not appreciate what it meant, in fact I didn't even realize what had happened at the time, but looking back I can see how useful an experience that was.
^This is (or more and more was) the most important value of Scouting. Yes, skills X, Y, and Z are nice and helpful and valuable, but they're almost besides the point. The experiences are what are of the most value.
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Wow, boys and girls in their late teens and early 20s at an event together, and some may engage in sex. I'm shocked by this. Shocked I say. ;/
Frankly, what I am shocked by is that someone involved in Scouts isn't sticking their heads in the sand, pretending that these young men and women aren't all virgins with no such desires. Far too many of the Scout volunteers I've met seem to ignore the fact that teens boys and girls think about sex a lot, and will engage if given a willing partner and 15 minutes of privacy.
I fondly remember my early 20s working at Philmont. Boy Scouts by day, party animals by night.
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The high adventures have been co-ed for some time now haven’t they?
I was disappointed when I heard the news but I’m encouraged hearing the opinions of actual Scout leaders here in the forum.
Most of the scout parents I interact with seem to intuitively understand the character building part of the high adventures like Philmont.
Ideally, philosophically, I believe there should be an all male space where boys learn how to be men. We unfortunately don’t live in an ideal world and philosophy is useless without practical reality.
If an all male alternative springs up that does a better job than the Scouts then the Scouts will become a primarily female group.
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I'm bringing this thread back because this piece of news fits the thread title:
https://apnews.com/4415256925664852096cb7d57abe1df8
As of January 1, 2020, the Mormons will start up their own substitute for Scouting, and that will take 400,000 Scouts out of the program. According to the article, that's 18 percent of the membership. What the article doesn't make clear is that many of the troops are sponsored and run by the Mormons; with the Mormons pulling out, it's probable that entire troops will disappear.
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Well, at least one troop of 400,000 Scouts will disappear. :)
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Depends on what the Mormons actually do with their program.
From the linked article:
One of the advantages we always had with Scouting is that it wasn’t ‘churchy,’
Article said Mormon youth already had 2 hour Sunday services plus other religious instruction, and the "new" Mormon scouts would get awards featuring images of various Mormon temples. Wonder how this will go over with the 400,000 kids used to scouting.