Author Topic: anybody seen my shocked face? Think I misplaced it. (Read 5540 times)

vaskidmark · « **on:** August 06, 2012, 03:16:44 AM »

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2012/aug/05/report-boy-scout-files-reveal-repeat-child-abuse-ar-2110458/

LOS ANGELES --
]quote]Internal documents from the Boy Scouts of America reveal more than 125 cases in which men suspected of molestation allegedly continued to abuse Scouts, despite a blacklist meant to protect boys from sexual predators.

A Los Angeles Times review (http://lat.ms/OT9zx5 ) of more than 1,200 files from 1970 to 1991 found suspected abusers regularly remained in the organization after officials were first presented with sexual misconduct allegations.

Predators moved from troop to troop because of clerical errors, computer glitches or the Scouts' failure to check the blacklist, known as the "perversion files," the newspaper said.

In at least 50 cases, the Scouts expelled suspected abusers, only to discover they had re-entered the organization and were accused of molesting again.

In other cases, officials failed to document reports of abuse in the first place, letting offenders stay in the program until new allegations came to light, the Times reported.[/quote]

Not all adults who work with Scouts are scum, but there just does not seem to be enough emphasis/effort internally to keep the known scum from returning. Anybody who has ever tried to keep track of people knows it is a difficult task at best. But with the stakes as high as they are shouldn't we expect somerthing a bit better than the average probation/parole officer's accomplishments?

stay safe.

French G. · « **Reply #1 on:** August 06, 2012, 06:16:57 AM »

An internal list? How about a call to the state police? That too damn hard?

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #2 on:** August 06, 2012, 06:56:59 AM »

Thin green line?

makattak · « **Reply #3 on:** August 06, 2012, 08:28:03 AM »

Quote from: French G. on August 06, 2012, 06:16:57 AM

An internal list? How about a call to the state police? That too damn hard?

From the article, the only examples seem to include people who ARE being jailed.

Looks like the Boy Scouts did miss some predators who have an incentive to continue to try to evade the system.

And, as the Boy Scouts say, even one case of abuse is too many.

However, the numbers, as reported are 125 cases over a 21 year period. It is a horrible thing that any child is molested, but this is not some rampant abuse problem.

There are over 300 Boy Scout councils in the United States. Each of those councils oversee dozens of troops. ANY such large organization, especially one that relies so heavily on volunteers, will have problems.

This isn't the Catholic Church scandal where known abusers were hidden and protected by the Church itself. I'm betting that's how this will be played, though.

T.O.M. · « **Reply #4 on:** August 06, 2012, 08:44:40 AM »

Quote from: makattak on August 06, 2012, 08:28:03 AM

This isn't the Catholic Church scandal where known abusers were hidden and protected by the Church itself. I'm betting that's how this will be played, though.

I hope not, but I'm afraid that is going to happen. With the BSA taking heat right now for their policy on homosexuality, I wonder how long it will be before someone ties the two together..."Sure, keep gays out to protect the kids, but let convicted offenders continue in leadership roles."

I'm a Scout volunteer. I see lots of problems with the program. Frankly, I see way to many examples of being overly cautious with safety, and a scary trend towards the politically correct. (The firearms policy drive me batty. A 17 year old Boy Scout can only shoot single shot bolt action .22 rifles, shotguns holding not more than 3 rounds, or black powder rifles. Period. A 14 year old Venturing Scout can shoot anything that goes boom. Why?)

That said, it is still a great program that offers real opportunities for young men to be exposed to important life skills, to develop real leadership experience, and to do good service for others. I enjoyed my Scout days (yes I earned Eagle), and I'm glad my sons get the same opportunity.

Azrael256 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2012, 09:38:42 PM »

The BSA headquarters is posted 30.06. I'm not suggesting they deserve to go down for this, but it ain't all sunshine and puppies.

T.O.M. · « **Reply #6 on:** September 18, 2012, 09:24:04 AM »

Quote from: makattak on August 06, 2012, 08:28:03 AM

This isn't the Catholic Church scandal where known abusers were hidden and protected by the Church itself. I'm betting that's how this will be played, though.

While I did hope this was accurate, the evidence is building to the contrary...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-boy-scouts-files-20120916,0,6937684.story

It sickens me to read of this. I have been a strong supporter of Scouting and the program, and I cannot defend them in this one. My only hope is that when the hammer falls for this, the entire program is not destroyed, but it may well be by the time the lawyers are done...

brimic · « **Reply #7 on:** September 18, 2012, 09:57:12 AM »

Quote

The BSA headquarters is posted 30.06. I'm not suggesting they deserve to go down for this, but it ain't all sunshine and puppies.

The local Boy/Cub Scout house is posted.

I saw a blurb of this on the late night news last night.
The spokesman for the Milwaukee Council kept using a non-sequiter excuse of 'it was to protect the kids and victims' for not reporting the sexual assaults to the police over the years.

Strings · « **Reply #8 on:** September 18, 2012, 03:07:57 PM »

>However, the numbers, as reported are 125 cases over a 21 year period. It is a horrible thing that any child is molested, but this is not some rampant abuse problem. <

The "average" pedophile will offend against hundreds of children in the course of their life: I've been told numbers from 100 on up to 400.

Yeah, only 125 cases reported. you have ANY idea how much damage to society this 125 cases will do? Especially since, quite often, such abuse becomes a generational problem (most abusers were abused themselves)?

And this whole "we wanted to protect the victims" reasoning for not contacting the police is bull. BSA wanted to protect their reputation and bottom line, nothing more

RevDisk · « **Reply #9 on:** September 18, 2012, 03:20:29 PM »

Quote from: Chris on August 06, 2012, 08:44:40 AM

I hope not, but I'm afraid that is going to happen. With the BSA taking heat right now for their policy on homosexuality, I wonder how long it will be before someone ties the two together..."Sure, keep gays out to protect the kids, but let convicted offenders continue in leadership roles."

Sounds like a valid point to me. I'd really love to hear the official BSA answer to it.

roo_ster · « **Reply #10 on:** September 18, 2012, 04:50:11 PM »

Quote from: Chris on August 06, 2012, 08:44:40 AM

I hope not, but I'm afraid that is going to happen. With the BSA taking heat right now for their policy on homosexuality, I wonder how long it will be before someone ties the two together..."Sure, keep gays out to protect the kids, but let convicted offenders continue in leadership roles."

This particular set of files has, according to the article, been available since 1992. If you think that the current digging and dissemination is coincidental, I think you are mistaken.

MechAg94 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 18, 2012, 04:53:33 PM »

Anyone that allows pedophile conduct to go unreported to police is in the wrong. If the local BSA group knew of a case and the police didn't, I would also think that parents and/or witnesses and others also knew.

T.O.M. · « **Reply #12 on:** September 18, 2012, 07:59:04 PM »

Quote from: Strings on September 18, 2012, 03:07:57 PM

>However, the numbers, as reported are 125 cases over a 21 year period. It is a horrible thing that any child is molested, but this is not some rampant abuse problem. <

The "average" pedophile will offend against hundreds of children in the course of their life: I've been told numbers from 100 on up to 400.

Yeah, only 125 cases reported. you have ANY idea how much damage to society this 125 cases will do? Especially since, quite often, such abuse becomes a generational problem (most abusers were abused themselves)?

And this whole "we wanted to protect the victims" reasoning for not contacting the police is bull. BSA wanted to protect their reputation and bottom line, nothing more

Strings, do you have a citation for your nubers? When I worked on the Child Abuse Team while I was a prosecutor, the numbers were not that high for most serial offenders,, much less a normal offender. I did the appeal for one serial molestor, and his numnbers were 17 confirmed, another 25 suspected, and he was consideded to be a really bad offender. I still feel sick thinking of the videos he made...

Jamie B · « **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2012, 08:36:42 PM »

How ironic that the Catholic Church and the BSA independently learned to protect the organization at the expense of the kids.

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #14 on:** September 18, 2012, 08:36:56 PM »

Quote from: makattak on August 06, 2012, 08:28:03 AM

And, as the Boy Scouts say, even one case of abuse is too many.

However, the numbers, as reported are 125 cases over a 21 year period. It is a horrible thing that any child is molested, but this is not some rampant abuse problem.

"Do as I say and not as I do." Considering that personal computing has been a mainstay of American society for 25 years or more, it is NOT difficult with the aid of modern ~~necromancy~~ technology to create a database and keep it updated. What is necessary, however, (as the little killer robot indicated in whatever that movie was) is DATA. If the local troops and regional councils don't report offenders, there are no data to enter into said DATAbase. And, like the Roman Catholic Church for so many years (until they lost control over the secrecy), the BSA has been worse than derelict in making any serious effort to keep track of predators and to keep predators out of the organization.

This problem is NOT a new problem, nor has it just come to light. It's probably not quite as big as the RC church's problem, but it's far bigger than 125 cases over 21 years.

I'm thoroughly disgusted with the BSA. I were one when I was a teenager. A couple of years ago my wife and I attended a ceremony for the son of some friends, who was being made an Eagle Scout. My Gawd! I don't think any two of the so-called Scouts in his troop wore the same "uniform." Most of them looked like they hadn't bathed in months -- and this was in a fairly well-to-do suburb. And the adult troop advisers were no better. VERY disturbing.

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2012, 09:19:54 PM »

Quote from: Jamie B on September 18, 2012, 08:36:42 PM

How ironic that the Catholic Church and the BSA independently learned to protect the organization at the expense of the kids.

It's not confined to any one organization.
Check the related stories
http://www.newson6.com/story/19578448/victory-christian-says-men-accused-of-child-sex-abuse-were-screened

Strings · « **Reply #16 on:** September 19, 2012, 06:04:26 AM »

>Strings, do you have a citation for your nubers?<

No, I don't have a citation for them. Sorry...

> When I worked on the Child Abuse Team while I was a prosecutor, the numbers were not that high for most serial offenders,, much less a normal offender. I did the appeal for one serial molestor, and his numnbers were 17 confirmed, another 25 suspected<

Lets switch those numbers (makes the math easier, and takes into account that some of the suspected were actual).

One perp, 25 victims. What percentage of those go on to offend themselves? 2? 3? 5? More?

And each of THEM has 25 victims... see where this can spiral out of control REAL quick?

T.O.M. · « **Reply #17 on:** September 19, 2012, 07:10:31 AM »

I understand the generational aspect. I was interested to know if the research had changed, not challenging your statement.

RevDisk · « **Reply #18 on:** September 20, 2012, 09:44:11 AM »

Quote from: Chris on September 19, 2012, 07:10:31 AM

I understand the generational aspect. I was interested to know if the research had changed, not challenging your statement.

Also, if you were doing the appeals, I gather he was not dead.

Unfortunately, you can't stop the count until the stake is firmly through the rib cage and there's a good six feet of dirt on top of him.

Scout26 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 20, 2012, 02:58:42 PM »

Yes, those that perpetrated (sex) crimes against boys (in the case but also girls) need to be put up against the wall (next to planning and zoning folks) and

Having said that, I know that from my experience with the BSA (as a Cub Scout Leader and serving on the Committee of my son's Boy Scout Troop) that the BSA has a zero tolerance not only for sexual abuse, but for 1) Any abuse (hazing, etc) and 2) Not following their Youth Protection Guidelines. At least it is in Three Fires Council. I've heard of leaders being kicked to curb (some long service) for not following the guidelines to a "T".

Learn It, Live It, Love It:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Youth_Protection

T.O.M. · « **Reply #20 on:** September 20, 2012, 11:00:35 PM »

As an Eagle Scout, a Cubmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster, and volunteer trainer/thorn in the side of the District staff, I'm with you Scout. I hope the program comes through this fine, and even better for learning from the really crappy decisions pointed out by all of this.

erictank · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2012, 05:54:26 PM »

Quote from: scout26 on September 20, 2012, 02:58:42 PM

Yes, those that perpetrated (sex) crimes against boys (in the case but also girls) need to be put up against the wall (next to planning and zoning folks) and

Having said that, I know that from my experience with the BSA (as a Cub Scout Leader and serving on the Committee of my son's Boy Scout Troop) that the BSA has a zero tolerance not only for sexual abuse, but for 1) Any abuse (hazing, etc) and 2) Not following their Youth Protection Guidelines. At least it is in Three Fires Council. I've heard of leaders being kicked to curb (some long service) for not following the guidelines to a "T".

Learn It, Live It, Love It:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Youth_Protection

Must be new. Certainly NOT my own experience, at any rate. The troop I was with for a little while after my family moved to TX in 1980 was... unconcerned with the possibility of their little darlings harassing and hazing new members. The Scoutmaster was the father of the worst offender, who could do no wrong. To be fair, there was never so much as a hint of sexual abuse from any Scout or adult leader, but harassment and hazing designed to eject those not "part of the group"? No problem, as far as they were concerned.

I suspect that experience was part of the reason I never bothered to progress past Tenderfoot, and dislike camping and other outdoorsy stuff to this day.

T.O.M. · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2012, 10:54:02 PM »

eric, sounds like you found a bad unit. My experience was far different in Ohio around rhe same time period. Then again, your Scoutmaster sounds like a problem if he did nt even stop nis own son.

roo_ster · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2012, 11:05:10 PM »

Quote from: Chris on September 21, 2012, 10:54:02 PM

eric, sounds like you found a bad unit. My experience was far different in Ohio around rhe same time period. Then again, your Scoutmaster sounds like a problem if he did nt even stop nis own son.

My son or daughter try pulling that sort of crap, they'll regret it, sure enough. They know better, though, and are surprisingly nice and friendly kids. Especially to those younger than themselves. Make me proud lotsa times, seems they're going to be better folk than my wife or I were.

Strings · « **Reply #24 on:** September 22, 2012, 12:20:38 AM »

I think I just realized a major problem in our society...

>seems they're going to be better folk than my wife or I were<

WAY too many parents concentrate on "I want my kids to have more things than I do", and not what Roo just said.

Bravo, sir, for having better priorities than most parents I run into

News:

Author Topic: anybody seen my shocked face? Think I misplaced it. (Read 5540 times)