Author Topic: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine  (Read 4607 times)

roo_ster

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American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« on: February 20, 2012, 12:16:09 PM »
Got the American Rifleman magazine the other day. I found I could bring myself to read only two articles: Armed Citizen and the back page with the take-down rifle Win M55 (mdl 94 take down).

Everything else was either blah or a joke like the "Governor."  S&W's version of the Taurus Judge.  "A fool and their money..."

I don't think American Rifleman is trying very hard, these days.
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HankB

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012, 12:22:34 PM »
I'm not a big fan of .410 revolvers . . . but you should take a look at that "Governor" article.

The 000 buckshot load - four pellets, totaling nearly 300 grains of lead - clocked a muzzle velocity of around 1200 ft/sec, good for over 900 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.

If those numbers are correct from a revolver - I'm impressed.
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lee n. field

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2012, 12:27:37 PM »
Quote
I don't think American Rifleman is trying very hard, these days.

Mostly they cover stuff I don't want and/or can't afford.

Mostly I ignore it.  The wife actually reads more of it than I do.  I'll let them pile up, and cull out issues without anything I'm interested every once in a while.  In that respect they're like most print gunrags.
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wmenorr67

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2012, 01:02:56 PM »
You can always switch the magazine that you get from them.  I get America's First Freedom and there are usually several good articles in it.  Usually one or two on a firearm but then the rest about the right to have and use firearms.
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brimic

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 04:17:17 PM »
Quote
I don't think American Rifleman is trying very hard, these days.

Its really gone down hill.
I read the S&W judge/governor/whatever article and they really tried hard to make the gun sound useful ;/
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AJ Dual

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 04:42:57 PM »
I'm not a big fan of .410 revolvers . . . but you should take a look at that "Governor" article.

The 000 buckshot load - four pellets, totaling nearly 300 grains of lead - clocked a muzzle velocity of around 1200 ft/sec, good for over 900 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.

If those numbers are correct from a revolver - I'm impressed.

And the fact it can take .45ACP with moon clips?

Still not interested, but my level of respect for the concept definitely went up a notch.
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MechAg94

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 05:50:22 PM »
Yeah, once I heard the Gov. shot 45 ACP, I thought the usefulness went up quite a bit in my mind.  



I like to see the stuff on the new products, but I try not to pay attention to their ratings/opinions.
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Lee

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 06:26:22 PM »
A liked American Hunter better.  I just got so tired of solicitations by the NRA (immediately after my renewals) that I decided not to re-up for awhile.  Unfortunately, membership just puts a big $ target on your back, very much like a charity. I'd like to give to both...but without hassles.

seeker_two

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 06:36:17 PM »
The Internet has made paper magazines obsolete....esp. when it involves bathroom reading and tablets....

I was OK with the NRA magazines....but the wine clubs and retirement plans were just a little too much....  ;/
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230RN

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 06:36:34 PM »
There's a bit of variability in any major effort.  There are some issues that grab my attention from cover to cover, other issues that are kind of blah, at least with respect to my particular interests.

I think I've noticed that a month or two after the holidays and a month or two after the summer vacation season, the issues are kind of blah and contain more proofing mistakes.  I chalk that up to perhaps the second-stringers are running the show during those periods.  Maybe.  Just seems that way.

All in all, I think it's a fine mag, subject to the same influences that any other publication has --notably because of the advertising dollars.

When I read a review, I read it with that in mind, and take some things in the articles cum granis salis while still being able to extract useful information from them.  Notably, in this respect, the accuracy and velocity testing.

Oh, and the price.

The rest of the article I sort of have to read between the lines. 

When the first .45/.410 revolver came out, I could tell the writer wasn't very enthusiastic about it, despite a positive tone to the whole article.  He mentioned the tumbling and keyholeing of the .45 loads.  Elsewhere in the article it was noted that the rifling was pretty shallow ( 0.002"? )to reduce the doughnuting of the shot patterns. Still elsewhere in that same article the long jump of the .45 bullet before it hit the rifling was mentioned.

So, adding 2 + 2 + 2, I realized that the bullet was being stripped since it had to hit the rifling at a pretty good velocity and rotation could not start that quickly in that shallow rifling, so the bullet stripped and didn't have proper stability.

So the answer, given the compromises necessary in this kind of gun,  was 6.

I then realized that at close defense ranges, it really didn't matter that much if the bullet was unstable in flight --bearing in mind that the Liberator .45ACP pistol wasn't rifled at all.

So one has to read these articles somewhat critically, but they still contain important information that one can use.

Terry, 230RN 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 06:48:18 PM by 230RN »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 06:41:01 PM »
Gun magazines were more interesting, back when the articles were full of guns and ideas I didn't know anything about. These days, though I haven't owned or shot that many guns, I have a pretty good idea of what's out there, and there is a very narrow range of firearm types that interest me enough to learn more.

I expect most of us have had a similar experience.


A friend of mine gut-shot a rabid raccoon with a Public Defender (.45 Colt). The raccoon walked away, and he ended up dispatching it with a shotgun. I think that weakened his faith in the .410/.45 revolver as a defensive arm, just a bit. Plus, he just sent it back to Taurus for repair. Again.
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Lee

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2012, 09:03:12 PM »
Gut shot rabid raccoon  - that sounds like the definition of "pissed off trouble". 

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 09:18:29 AM »
A liked American Hunter better.  I just got so tired of solicitations by the NRA (immediately after my renewals) that I decided not to re-up for awhile.  Unfortunately, membership just puts a big $ target on your back, very much like a charity. I'd like to give to both...but without hassles.

The NRA has a do-not-bother-me type list. When I bought my life membershipmlast year, I made sure to check that box. I have received no mail, email, or phone calls for any NRA products. I also declined to receive the magazine, but I don't know if that makes a difference.
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MechAg94

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 06:07:23 PM »
Do y'all have the compulsion to open and read every letter you get in the mail?  I chunk most of the NRA stuff as soon as it arrives along with a lot of others asking me for money.  I probably get mail from 10 or 15 charities for every one I give to.  I don't see that it wastes my time.

I like paper magazines.  I don't have a kindle or iPad and really don't see how those would make the magazine experience better or even the same.  I've viewed mags on pdf files on my computer and don't care for it.
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K Frame

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 10:49:42 PM »
"Do y'all have the compulsion to open and read every letter you get in the mail?"

God I have so often wondered this myself.

Yet to hear people talk about it, it's as if ONE STINKING SOLICITATION from NRA is the end of their life as they know it.

Man up, Princesses, your lives aren't over just because you're too *expletive deleted*ing cheap to throw a few bucks to the organization that has the best track record out there for protecting the Second Amendment.

 ;/
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seeker_two

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 10:53:03 PM »
Mike has a point....how else will the NRA be able to support sending all that junk mail unless we send them money.....
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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 11:18:47 PM »
Mike has a point....how else will the NRA be able to support sending all that junk mail unless we send them money.....

They do it for one reason... it works.

Anyone who has a little experience with direct marketing knows that you send out X number of mailings to demographic Y, a conversion rate/percentage of return Z is pretty much a sure thing.

It's a science really, and nothing personal.

Also keep in mind that NRA dues can't legally fund the lobbying efforts of the NRA-ILA either.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2012, 12:35:56 AM »
"Do y'all have the compulsion to open and read every letter you get in the mail?"

God I have so often wondered this myself.

Yet to hear people talk about it, it's as if ONE STINKING SOLICITATION from NRA is the end of their life as they know it.

Man up, Princesses, your lives aren't over just because you're too *expletive deleted*ing cheap to throw a few bucks to the organization that has the best track record out there for protecting the Second Amendment.

 ;/


Yes. Virtually every organization does this. The only difference is that non-profits ask you for money, the local supermarket offers you things in exchange for money, and some orgs are just inviting you to events.
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K Frame

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2012, 07:56:57 AM »
"Mike has a point....how else will the NRA be able to support sending all that junk mail unless we send them money....."

This is the biggest complaint I see by people. They just don't understand why NRA spends SO MUCH MONEY sending out tons of mailings. I mean, after all, NRA must spend 150 percent of its annual budget on mailings, right?

BULL.

There's a VERY simple concept involved in direct mail marketing, whether it's grocery store coupons, requests for donations, or selling services -- the costs of the mailing are paid for by the people who respond to it!

Direct mail is, for the returns, the single most successful fundraising venture there is. Nothing else comes close to its effectiveness. Do you REALLY think that any organization would be so stupid as to pursue a fundraising methodology that in fact drained money from the organization? That's kind of a silly theory, isn't it?

Standard industry "success" figures are normally between .5 percent and 1.5 percent of a mailing. That's right, for 100,000 mailers, a highly successful campaign can be had if as few as 500 people respond to it.

For a directed purpose organization like NRA, response rates often are FAR higher than that. The higher the response rate, the higher the return on what is really a rather trivial investment.

These are some figures that I punched together for a post in TFL about a decade ago. Obviously the base figures have changed given increasing costs, but the concept remains that if direct mail wasn't successful, it wouldn't be done! This particular response was to someone who wanted to bankrupt HCI through its own mailings, and my response was designed to show why it would be very difficult to do:


The bottom line is this, though.

If may SEEM as if NRA is spending an inordinate amount of money sending you letters asking for money.

The simple truth is that you're making assumptions not based on facts, you're getting emotionally wrapped up in it, and you're failing to understand exactly why NRA keeps sending out letters requesting donations.

Hopefully now, though, you'll have a bit better of an understanding and you'll realize that these mailings are NOT the huge money pit you think them to be.

"Having spent a number of years in the direct marketing field for a major financial institution, I can tell you right off the bat that the number of people you'd have to get in on such a scheme would be pretty astronomical.

Depending on what it is, how complex it is, etc., the average "break even" point for solicitation is anywhere from .5 percent to 1.5 percent (the more complex and expensive, the higher the break even point).

I would suspect that for targeted "cause" groups like this it would be on the low end of the scale, or even lower, because people who are on the mailing list show a propensity to give funds.

Running a few simple & dirty scenarios through my head (without pulling out my direct marketing course materials), here's a quick & dirty breakdown...

Cost of mailing (including postage, manufacturing, & incidental costs associated with processing) - $0.20 (may be way high)

Cost to produce 150,000 for potential donors - $30,000

Figuring a return of 2.5% (which I think is relistic for a cause based group mailing from an established list) -- 3,750 responses.

Amount those 3,750 would have to donate, each, to make the mailing breakeven -- $8

Logical average amount those 3,750 would be expected to give would be as high as $25 per -- $93,750.

Total profit for this mailing -- $63,750.

Number of additional, non-contributing letters that would have to be mailed to negate all of the profit for the mailing -- 318,750.

That's just a quick & dirty figure.

And, you've got to figure that these groups purge their lists VERY frequently to weed out those who don't respond to their mailings.

Thus, you would have to have a HUGE database of people who would be willing to sign up every couple of months, but they would have to have different names AND mailing addresses. The comparator software used by organizations that do mass mailings for groups such as these is VERY sophisticated, and is very good at sniffing out schemes just like this.

There's a good reason why groups such as NRA and HCI continue to send out LOTS and LOTS of direct mail solicitations.

They're VERY effective at raising large amounts of funds.

And, finally, remember. What we do to them, they can do to us in return."
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Hawkmoon

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2012, 10:21:05 AM »
Got the American Rifleman magazine the other day. I found I could bring myself to read only two articles: Armed Citizen and the back page with the take-down rifle Win M55 (mdl 94 take down).

Everything else was either blah or a joke like the "Governor."  S&W's version of the Taurus Judge.  "A fool and their money..."

I don't think American Rifleman is trying very hard, these days.

I changed from American Rifleman to First Freedom, and it isn't any better. Lots of full page ads for stupid stuff like America Remembers "commemorative" guns (like the Colts, that are built on 1991 pistols -- Colt's cheapest, entry level 1911 -- with a ton of engraving to hide the fact it's a very pedestrian firearm), gold and silver coins, and other stuff that would appeal only to the wealthy -- and then only if they were stupid as well as wealthy.

I mean, really -- the National RIFLE Association needs an endorsed gold coin dealer? Gimme a break.

The NRA's rags take about 15 seconds to scan. They aren't worth saving, either.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 10:27:07 AM by Hawkmoon »
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: American Rifleman: NRA Magazine
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2012, 10:26:47 AM »
The million mom march (remember them) coffers filled up a war chest really quickly during the post Clinton election.
It seemed like they had backdoor access to Maryland's house & senate via the Kennedy-Townsend-Curran machine.

Gun ownership was pilloried as crime in Maryland daily, and the NRA told us to stand down as they had the situation in control.

Sarah Brady's legal council got elected as a MD congressman and showed FA ar15 videos as testimony in sessions extending the AWB
and the NRA was no where to be seen.

IMHO having maryland go full retard was a huge marketing exploit for the NRA.
Don't let this happen in your state, made some serious coin roll in for the NRA.

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far from Annapolis panhandle of Maryland and un seated The Speaker of the House,
gun bills never made it out of the drawer and the Christmas treeing abated.
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