Post by: geronimotwo on January 26, 2008, 02:47:49 PM
" By IAN JAMES, Associated Press Writer
Sat Jan 26, 4:24 PM ET
CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez urged his Latin American allies on Saturday to begin withdrawing billions of dollars in international reserves from U.S. banks, warning of a looming U.S. economic crisis.
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Chavez made the suggestion as he hosted a summit aimed at boosting Latin American integration and rolling back U.S. influence.
"We should start to bring our reserves here," Chavez said. "Why does that money have to be in the north? ... You can't put all your eggs in one basket."
To help pool resources within the region, Chavez and other leaders launched a new development bank at the summit of the Bolivarian Alternative for the Nations of Our America, or ALBA.
The left-leaning regional trade alliance first proposed by Chavez is intended to offer an alternative, socialist path to integration while snubbing U.S.-backed free-trade deals.
Chavez noted that U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice visited Colombia in recent days, saying "that has to do with this summit."
"The empire doesn't accept alternatives," Chavez told the gathering, attended by the presidents of Bolivia and Nicaragua and Cuban Vice President Carlos Lage.
Chavez warned that U.S. "imperialism is entering into a crisis that can affect all of us" and said Latin America "will save itself alone."
Rice left Colombia on Friday after a trip aimed at reviving a free trade deal that has stalled in the U.S. Congress. She sidestepped an opportunity to confront Chavez, who accused Colombia and the United States of plotting "military aggression" against Venezuela.
Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega joined Chavez in his criticism of U.S.-style capitalism, saying "the dictatorship of global capitalism ... has lost control." Three days earlier, Ortega had shouted "Long live the U.S. government" as he inaugurated an American-financed section of highway in his country.
The ALBA Bank is "being born with the aim of boosting development in our countries," Venezuelan Finance Minister Rafael Isea said Saturday as he and other officials gathered at the bank's Caracas office for an inaugural ceremony.
Isea has said the bank will be started with $1 billion to $1.5 billion.
Chavez welcomed the Caribbean island of Dominica into the ALBA an acronym that means "dawn" in Spanish joining Nicaragua, Bolivia and Cuba. Attending as observers were the prime ministers of Antigua and Barbuda and St. Vincent and the Grenadines, along with officials from Ecuador, Honduras, Haiti and St. Kitts and Nevis.
Chavez said a new fund created by Venezuela and Iran to support projects in third countries would have links to the ALBA Bank."
any idea how much of their money is invested here?
Post by: Finch on January 26, 2008, 03:10:48 PM
Post by: CAnnoneer on January 26, 2008, 04:22:23 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on January 26, 2008, 06:05:31 PM
Does anyone even take him seriously?
Post by: RevDisk on January 26, 2008, 06:09:48 PM
Did the clown make a funny noise?
Does anyone even take him seriously?
Does anyone even take him seriously?
Considering that Venezuela is the sixth largest oil exporter in the world, financial analysts should.
Post by: Tecumseh on January 27, 2008, 06:22:56 PM
Did the clown make a funny noise?
Does anyone even take him seriously?
Does anyone even take him seriously?
Considering that Venezuela is the sixth largest oil exporter in the world, financial analysts should.
Post by: RevDisk on January 27, 2008, 06:57:59 PM
Considering that Venezuela is the sixth largest oil exporter in the world, financial analysts should.
Why are you bringing reason into this? We were gonna have a good thread where we bash a leftist and here you go with the doom 'n gloom. Well. I'm a political moderate, sorta. Which means the conservatives think I'm a sissy liberal, and the liberals think I'm a whack job right winger. Unfortunately, I'm objective so I don't have the luxary of the ideological fantasies of either side. Sigh.
I'm not exactly a fan of Chavez. I don't like his militant anti-American rhetoric. I'm not exactly favorable towards some of his more extreme socialist beliefs. I'm also aware that our country to some degree sponsored a coup, an assassination attempt and a quasi voter recall election against him. No country would exactly be happy if a foreign power attempted all those things against their legitimate elected government. This is blowback from our failed meddling in the affairs of a sovereign nation.
Post by: Tecumseh on January 27, 2008, 07:04:49 PM
Either way, once again we should start looking at the possible consequences of Chavez's suggestion. How will this affect the US? What other countries will they invest in? Etc. Etc.
It would be nice to write off Chavez but that is not possible in todays global society. Not when we depend on his exports. Imagine if this country faced oil embargoes. What would we do? We have no real energy policy. The reserve will not hold out for all that long. Either way, I would like to have them pull their funds out. I am sad to say but I do think that the average American needs to stop being so apathetic to the world around them. And this is just the way to do it.
Post by: Manedwolf on January 27, 2008, 07:47:47 PM
I'm also aware that our country to some degree sponsored a coup, an assassination attempt and a quasi voter recall election against him.
Got proof of that?
Post by: Tecumseh on January 27, 2008, 07:52:25 PM
I'm also aware that our country to some degree sponsored a coup, an assassination attempt and a quasi voter recall election against him.
Got proof of that?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/30/AR2006093001317.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,216882,00.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NIM20051120&articleId=1296
Post by: Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas on January 27, 2008, 07:53:56 PM
Quote
I'm also aware that our country to some degree sponsored a coup, an assassination attempt and a quasi voter recall election against him.
Pat Robertson is not a CIA station chief.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 27, 2008, 08:05:23 PM
Pat Robertson is not a CIA station chief.
Although he probably would do better at that, than at preaching.
Post by: RevDisk on January 27, 2008, 08:52:12 PM
I'm also aware that our country to some degree sponsored a coup, an assassination attempt and a quasi voter recall election against him.
Got proof of that?
Nope
Na, seriously. Besides Pedro Carmona (the guy who tried to overthrow Chavez) and Otto Reich (from Iran-Contra, specialized in overthrowing Central American governments) visiting the White House a couple months before the coup? Or US stepping up payments from the National Endowment for Democracy to certain folks just before the coup? A lot of circumstantal stuff at best. So, nope, no real proof has been declassified, and probably never would be. If it existed. Or not.
So if you wish, you can believe the US had nothing to do with the coup. But no one in Venezuela would believe it.
Post by: LAK on January 28, 2008, 01:14:20 AM
Next will be an accusation of a weapons program, or some "massacres" and other "crimes against humanity". Perhaps a "Venezualan Freedom Fighters" group. With saturation level reporting by the oligarchs' media complex; maybe they'll conjure up some stories about Chavez's troops tossing babies out of airplanes or something.
The oligarchs really do hate competition though when it comes to certain business.
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Post by: geronimotwo on January 28, 2008, 03:39:57 AM
Post by: Tecumseh on January 28, 2008, 09:28:06 AM
what happens if we "just say no". "no mr chavez, we are keeping your (and your friends) few measly billion (or more?)." after all, we outgun them.
The rest of the world looks at us crosseyed and we lose out. We dont have a good manufacturing base, we have no real supply for oil, and we will probably get embargoed.
Post by: MechAg94 on January 28, 2008, 10:11:43 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on January 28, 2008, 10:31:01 AM
Post by: RevDisk on January 28, 2008, 10:52:13 AM
what happens if we "just say no". "no mr chavez, we are keeping your (and your friends) few measly billion (or more?)." after all, we outgun them.
What would you do if your bank impounded the money of a political dissent without any legal cause except "Because we can"? Most folks would do the sane thing, pull their money and put it somewhere more reliable.
$32.21 billion as of Dec 07 in foreign exchange reserves. As a not very good comparison, US has $69.668 billion. Mind you, that's just in foreign exchange. Venezuela has 356.8 tons of gold reserves, mainly in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York vault. 10% of the world's gold is stored there, because our government is considered the most reliable and stable. At least financially speaking.
Trust is an interesting thing, so hard to obtain and very easily lost. Tis why it would NOT be a good thing to steal any sovereign nation's money without a heck of a lot of cause. Because they'd never be stupid enough to give it to you ever again. An amusing case was when the Bank of Spain transferred the majority of its gold to the Soviet Union during the Spanish Civil War. It was never returned, as the Soviet Union sold the Spanish Republic weapons at insanely overvalued prices and kept the gold as payment. Afterwards, the Soviet Union tended to have a foreign exchange problem as not many people wanted to trust the USSR with their money. Except for the countries they conquered and enslaved, of course.
Post by: Tecumseh on January 28, 2008, 12:34:34 PM
what happens if we "just say no". "no mr chavez, we are keeping your (and your friends) few measly billion (or more?)." after all, we outgun them.
I also wanted to add that it is hard to keep the moral highground when you just robbed a nation blind. Do you really think we "outgun" them? I thought we outgunned them in Iraq? Afghanistan? Or some classic examples such as Korea and Vietnam?
Post by: De Selby on January 28, 2008, 06:43:12 PM
Brazil has just discovered possible massive oilfields right off their coast. That'd be very good for us if so. Brazil likes us.
They do? Apparently the Brazilians had not noticed:
Pictures of Brazilians reacting to GW's visit:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~vyadav/images/photos/32276739.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6430951.stm
Quote
In Sao Paulo, about 10,000 people spilled out along one of the city's broadest avenues, in the heart of the financial district, banging drums, waving red flags and carrying banners reading "Bush Go Home".
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/EvalWorldPowers/LeadWorld_Apr05/LeadWorld_Apr05_rpt.pdf
Check out the stats for Brazil public opinion there.
Post by: Tecumseh on January 28, 2008, 06:49:51 PM
Brazil has just discovered possible massive oilfields right off their coast. That'd be very good for us if so. Brazil likes us.
They do? Apparently the Brazilians had not noticed:
Pictures of Brazilians reacting to GW's visit:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~vyadav/images/photos/32276739.jpg
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6430951.stm
Quote
In Sao Paulo, about 10,000 people spilled out along one of the city's broadest avenues, in the heart of the financial district, banging drums, waving red flags and carrying banners reading "Bush Go Home".
http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/EvalWorldPowers/LeadWorld_Apr05/LeadWorld_Apr05_rpt.pdf
Check out the stats for Brazil public opinion there.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 28, 2008, 07:45:06 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on January 28, 2008, 10:13:12 PM
"Like" as in a trading partner, a democratic country that has open import and export channels with us, that sells us stuff and lets us put lots of US brands there, and has people that buy our stuff. Many US retail corporations have made major inroads there. We do not have trade restrictions with them, (obviously, since you can buy weapons made there), and thus it's a Friendly Nation.
This is not something you'll find in socialist countries like Chavez's, due to the fact that he keeps taking stuff away from corporations and nationalizing it. That tends to scare off people from building and investing.
Dealing with a democratic nation with friendly trade status for energy needs is a lot easy than dealing with a tinpot socialist who truly hates your entire country, meets with the rogue's gallery of the world's nastiest dictators on a weekly basis and wants to cause trouble whenever possible.
In any event, a closer democratic country that might have found an oil reserve they'd sell from to us (the new Jupiter field, besides the 8 billion barrel Tupi found last year) would be good for us in the long run, and bad for people in the sandbox who right now have a stranglehold on us. Might be bad for shootinstudent's desires, though, so hey.
Post by: LAK on January 29, 2008, 03:01:13 AM
S. America has alot of coastline and territorial waters. And this does not include those resources on the huge land mass.
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Post by: Tecumseh on January 29, 2008, 12:14:44 PM
So they don't like GW. Who cares?
"Like" as in a trading partner, a democratic country that has open import and export channels with us, that sells us stuff and lets us put lots of US brands there, and has people that buy our stuff. Many US retail corporations have made major inroads there. We do not have trade restrictions with them, (obviously, since you can buy weapons made there), and thus it's a Friendly Nation.
This is not something you'll find in socialist countries like Chavez's, due to the fact that he keeps taking stuff away from corporations and nationalizing it. That tends to scare off people from building and investing.
Dealing with a democratic nation with friendly trade status for energy needs is a lot easy than dealing with a tinpot socialist who truly hates your entire country, meets with the rogue's gallery of the world's nastiest dictators on a weekly basis and wants to cause trouble whenever possible.
In any event, a closer democratic country that might have found an oil reserve they'd sell from to us (the new Jupiter field, besides the 8 billion barrel Tupi found last year) would be good for us in the long run, and bad for people in the sandbox who right now have a stranglehold on us. Might be bad for shootinstudent's desires, though, so hey.
Got a link to information about this field Tupi found?
"Like" as in a trading partner, a democratic country that has open import and export channels with us, that sells us stuff and lets us put lots of US brands there, and has people that buy our stuff. Many US retail corporations have made major inroads there. We do not have trade restrictions with them, (obviously, since you can buy weapons made there), and thus it's a Friendly Nation.
This is not something you'll find in socialist countries like Chavez's, due to the fact that he keeps taking stuff away from corporations and nationalizing it. That tends to scare off people from building and investing.
Dealing with a democratic nation with friendly trade status for energy needs is a lot easy than dealing with a tinpot socialist who truly hates your entire country, meets with the rogue's gallery of the world's nastiest dictators on a weekly basis and wants to cause trouble whenever possible.
In any event, a closer democratic country that might have found an oil reserve they'd sell from to us (the new Jupiter field, besides the 8 billion barrel Tupi found last year) would be good for us in the long run, and bad for people in the sandbox who right now have a stranglehold on us. Might be bad for shootinstudent's desires, though, so hey.
Post by: Manedwolf on January 29, 2008, 12:34:28 PM
Post by: De Selby on January 29, 2008, 06:33:16 PM
So they don't like GW. Who cares?
"Like" as in a trading partner, a democratic country that has open import and export channels with us, that sells us stuff and lets us put lots of US brands there, and has people that buy our stuff. Many US retail corporations have made major inroads there. We do not have trade restrictions with them, (obviously, since you can buy weapons made there), and thus it's a Friendly Nation.
This is not something you'll find in socialist countries like Chavez's, due to the fact that he keeps taking stuff away from corporations and nationalizing it. That tends to scare off people from building and investing.
Dealing with a democratic nation with friendly trade status for energy needs is a lot easy than dealing with a tinpot socialist who truly hates your entire country, meets with the rogue's gallery of the world's nastiest dictators on a weekly basis and wants to cause trouble whenever possible.
In any event, a closer democratic country that might have found an oil reserve they'd sell from to us (the new Jupiter field, besides the 8 billion barrel Tupi found last year) would be good for us in the long run, and bad for people in the sandbox who right now have a stranglehold on us. Might be bad for shootinstudent's desires, though, so hey.
"Like" as in a trading partner, a democratic country that has open import and export channels with us, that sells us stuff and lets us put lots of US brands there, and has people that buy our stuff. Many US retail corporations have made major inroads there. We do not have trade restrictions with them, (obviously, since you can buy weapons made there), and thus it's a Friendly Nation.
This is not something you'll find in socialist countries like Chavez's, due to the fact that he keeps taking stuff away from corporations and nationalizing it. That tends to scare off people from building and investing.
Dealing with a democratic nation with friendly trade status for energy needs is a lot easy than dealing with a tinpot socialist who truly hates your entire country, meets with the rogue's gallery of the world's nastiest dictators on a weekly basis and wants to cause trouble whenever possible.
In any event, a closer democratic country that might have found an oil reserve they'd sell from to us (the new Jupiter field, besides the 8 billion barrel Tupi found last year) would be good for us in the long run, and bad for people in the sandbox who right now have a stranglehold on us. Might be bad for shootinstudent's desires, though, so hey.
I don't think anyone would seriously doubt that Venezuela's elections are far, far more free and open than Brazil's. So in that sense, there's really no debate that Brazil is not somehow "more democratic" than our enemies in Venezuela.
But yeah, look at the polls-more than half of Brazilians want to see less U.S. influence in the world. I think your confidence is misplaced.
Post by: MechAg94 on February 01, 2008, 06:19:02 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on February 01, 2008, 06:19:50 AM
So they don't like GW. Who cares?
"Like" as in a trading partner, a democratic country that has open import and export channels with us, that sells us stuff and lets us put lots of US brands there, and has people that buy our stuff. Many US retail corporations have made major inroads there. We do not have trade restrictions with them, (obviously, since you can buy weapons made there), and thus it's a Friendly Nation.
This is not something you'll find in socialist countries like Chavez's, due to the fact that he keeps taking stuff away from corporations and nationalizing it. That tends to scare off people from building and investing.
Dealing with a democratic nation with friendly trade status for energy needs is a lot easy than dealing with a tinpot socialist who truly hates your entire country, meets with the rogue's gallery of the world's nastiest dictators on a weekly basis and wants to cause trouble whenever possible.
In any event, a closer democratic country that might have found an oil reserve they'd sell from to us (the new Jupiter field, besides the 8 billion barrel Tupi found last year) would be good for us in the long run, and bad for people in the sandbox who right now have a stranglehold on us. Might be bad for shootinstudent's desires, though, so hey.
"Like" as in a trading partner, a democratic country that has open import and export channels with us, that sells us stuff and lets us put lots of US brands there, and has people that buy our stuff. Many US retail corporations have made major inroads there. We do not have trade restrictions with them, (obviously, since you can buy weapons made there), and thus it's a Friendly Nation.
This is not something you'll find in socialist countries like Chavez's, due to the fact that he keeps taking stuff away from corporations and nationalizing it. That tends to scare off people from building and investing.
Dealing with a democratic nation with friendly trade status for energy needs is a lot easy than dealing with a tinpot socialist who truly hates your entire country, meets with the rogue's gallery of the world's nastiest dictators on a weekly basis and wants to cause trouble whenever possible.
In any event, a closer democratic country that might have found an oil reserve they'd sell from to us (the new Jupiter field, besides the 8 billion barrel Tupi found last year) would be good for us in the long run, and bad for people in the sandbox who right now have a stranglehold on us. Might be bad for shootinstudent's desires, though, so hey.
I don't think anyone would seriously doubt that Venezuela's elections are far, far more free and open than Brazil's. So in that sense, there's really no debate that Brazil is not somehow "more democratic" than our enemies in Venezuela.
But yeah, look at the polls-more than half of Brazilians want to see less U.S. influence in the world. I think your confidence is misplaced.
Post by: Tecumseh on February 01, 2008, 11:49:19 AM
It's the name of the oil field. Google "tupi oil field".
Interesting little read about it...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/world/americas/19braziloil.html
Post by: Manedwolf on February 01, 2008, 11:54:49 AM
It's the name of the oil field. Google "tupi oil field".
Interesting little read about it...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/19/world/americas/19braziloil.html
Typical NYtimes wishful thinking...
Quote
The Brazilian field, known as Tupi, now has the potential to lend more weight to Brazils more moderate, leftist approach.
Sorry, fifth columnists at the Times, Brazil's successes as contrasted to other South American failures have been due to the rise of free-market CAPITALISM there. Much as the Times wants everyone to hold hands and be a happy socialist, it ain't gonna happen.
So freaking sick of that paper, glad it's failing. People don't want to read leftist opinions about how bad America sucks and how evil our fighting men and women are.