Huh, what?
Welfare state progressivism is antithetical to liberty.
I agree. However, it's antithetical to liberty in the sense of American decline. Where it expands, where there used to be more economic liberty etc.
I think Micro is saying that in the Hobsonian view of history and the world as a whole, where people are killed, raped, burned, beaten, imprisoned, and herded about willy nilly by the powers that be is the normal way of things, fretting over a nominal Euro-style socialist democracy vs. some Libertarian minarchy/Anarcho-capitalist state... just isn't that big a deal.
From my point of view, trying to impose the level of socialism in say Greece, much of Europe, or even Israel... here in the U.S. would have me ready to do violence to try and prevent it. And in fact I get more fretful about the direction of our country in such matters every day. I weigh the trends, vs. the ages of my children, and when they'll be independent adults, and were I to "do something about it", it would no longer ruin their lives.
On the other hand, in terms of practical personal liberty, from the point of view of the average human being anywhere in the world through 95% of recorded history, or people today in many parts of Africa, Asia, or the Middle East, Greece in it's present state would seem like paradise.
Micro, correct me if I'm wrong here...