Post by: BrokenPaw on April 28, 2006, 02:47:28 PM
So he asked me to be his best man, and I accepted. At the time, I had reservations about his relationship with her, but I figured that he's a big kid, and I'm not his mom. So I agreed to stand with him.
As the wedding has gotten closer, the way she treats him has gotten worse. The other evening they were over talking about their wedding, and every time he tried to say anything, she shot him a look, and he basically curled into himself and shut up. I've talked to him a few times about the way she treats him, and it's obvious that he doesn't like it the way she does. I asked him point blank, about a week ago, why he wanted to be with her, and he said, "Because I have fun when she's around." And I said, "Do you?", and he thought about it for a while, and then said, "Well, I guess it's a different kind of fun." He looked miserable as he said it.
During the preparations for the wedding, I've gotten to know his parents pretty well. I'd met them before, but never really gotten much of a chance to see how they interacted, because it was always one of them or the other that was around.
I've discovered that the father, Jim, who is an astoundingly cool guy, completely closes in on himself when his wife, Sarah, is around. To the point of pretending to fall asleep when we were with them at an expensive restaurant, rather than having to deal with the overbearing way she treats him. And I realized that the reason Sarah likes my friend's fiancee so much is because they're exactly the same; my friend is marrying his overbearing pushy control-freak mother, and he's going to end up exactly like his really cool but completely cowed and spirit-less father.
As an added bonus, Sarah has decided that her baby is going to have the nicest wedding money and a coercive attitude can buy, and the thing has spiraled into a nearly six-figure affair, all paid for by Jim and Sarah. And he who pays the piper gets to call the tune, so Sarah is walking all over my friend and imposing her plans on the couple for the wedding day.
Part of what has been pushed through is that I have been demoted from Best Man, because Sarah felt that it wouldn't be proper for my friend's brother not to be best man. So we're both sort of...co..best-men. Or something. Which is no skin off my nose, except for the fact that I feel like it's not what my friend wants, but rather something he's been bullied into.
Anyway, my ethical quandary is this: As co-best-man, it's my job to stand with them as they get married, and then give a speech and a blessing to the couple at the reception afterward. But I feel like standing with them is an affirmation that I support what's going on, and I don't. I can't support it, because it's fairly obvious to me that he's not happy about the marriage any more, but he just can't bring himself to break it off, especially now that his mom has spent so much on everything.
Further, to make a speech blessing a union that I cannot support feels like I'm perjuring myself. I've been trying for a month now, and I can come up with a heck of a lot of nice things to say about him, and one or two charitable things to say about her, but can't come up with even a single thing positive about the two of them.
His spirit and sense of humor are dead when she's around, because she considers everything he used to do "immature", so he's not "allowed" to make jokes like that any more (and it's not like they were inappropriate or crass; they were puns, a type of humor that she doesn't like, and so he's not allowed to use it any more).
She does things that intentionally make him uncomfortable, and she belittles him in front of anyone and everyone who happens to be around.
Every her vows to him are a mockery (they wrote their own). His are all about how he's going to support her and cherish her and be there for her, and hers are all about how she's going to pretend he's funny when there are other people around.
I don't know what to do. The wedding is fast approaching, and I don't feel like I can stand with him in good conscience. I'm not trying to tell him not to marry her, even though every part of me wants to scream "Run!" to him; he's a big kid, as I said. He can make his own decisions. But I'd feel like I was lying if I stood with them and blessed their union.
I'd appreciate any thoughts that anyone might have to share.
Thanks,
-BP
Post by: grampster on April 28, 2006, 03:10:26 PM
The best thing you can do is to tell him you cannot be a part of this marriage because you honor him, love him and value him too much to stand for the union.
I'd tell him to search his heart and soul and to be a man and do what is best. She sounds like a black hole and he will not survive as a person. If he rejects you because you have decided to be honest with him and tell him what you see happening; so be it. She's gonna drive you off shortly anyway and if you don't tell him, you will never forgive yourself. Just be honest with him.
We have a neighbor like her. She was an only child and she believes the world revolves around her. Her husband is a wimp and caters to her every need. She has alienated her adult children more than once. She has disowned her daughter till the daughter finally knuckled under to her ego battering. The daughter was in love with a nice fellow, but he was not acceptable to this shrew. She made their life miserable, refusing to attend or pay for or even gift them if they did not change their wedding plans to suit her. They took her out of their will, for land sake. They even went to two different counselors who pointed out to the mother that she was wrong, controling and needed to change. She quit going to the counseling accusing the shrinks of colluding with the daughter. If it was not so pathetic it would have been funny.
The woman came to our door after nearly 10 years of friendship and outlined a list of things that she didn't like us doing because we weren't focusing on her like she thinks we should.
My wife and I showed her the door and told her that friendship is not a job, or have a job description on how to please her. That it was fine to be lectured by our mothers, but not her. We told her being her friend was work and friendship is about acceptance not labor. Goodbye.
You need to follow your heart with your friend no matter the consequences to you. If he is your friend and you love him, you need to be honest with him. Maybe you'll save him, maybe not. But you will have tried and that is all that matters. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.
Good luck, BP.
Post by: crt360 on April 28, 2006, 03:24:43 PM
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on April 28, 2006, 04:04:27 PM
Talking to him will probably do no good, he will be deaf to it right now.
I hung with my best friend, did what I could do. He dumped the b**ch many years ago, after she cheated on him. We are still best friends.
I hope your friend is strong willed enough to eventually realize what is happening.
Post by: Art Eatman on April 28, 2006, 04:12:33 PM
http://www.stevenfromholz.com/songs/finger.htm
Probably won't do any good, but tell him what you think. And, why should you be part of what you've already said is a charade, and a bad one at that?
Art
Post by: Standing Wolf on April 28, 2006, 04:49:57 PM
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I don't know what to do. The wedding is fast approaching, and I don't feel like I can stand with him in good conscience.
You may not know what to do, but your conscience does.
Post by: Northwoods on April 28, 2006, 06:30:59 PM
Post by: K Frame on April 28, 2006, 07:11:39 PM
If the father is like that, then there's nothing in the world that you can tell the son that is going to make a bit of difference. Your friend is heading towards recreating his parent's relationship.
Post by: SpookyPistolero on April 28, 2006, 07:22:38 PM
I've met lots of women like that. Lot's of guys, too. It kills me every time I meet the poor person getting deeper into a relationship with such narcissistic, self important freaks. I think all you can do is explain it a lot like you just did to us, and hope he's able to see things the way they are from outside the bubble.
I'm so amazed by people.
Post by: Antibubba on April 29, 2006, 08:04:14 PM
Tell him you won't be a party to it. And instead of throwing a bachelor party, hold a wake. Your friend has already departed, you just haven't realized it yet
Post by: chaim on April 29, 2006, 09:22:27 PM
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Well, your friendship will probably be over within a short time after they are married because she will begin to really control him then. The first thing she will do is discard his friends for those she selects. You will be out.
I've had two friends with fiances, then wives, like that.The first one, I couldn't tell you much about him now since I haven't seen him in about 5 years and I only saw him 2 or 3 times (despite living half a mile away) in the first 3 years of his marriage. This is a guy I was roommates with for a year a few years before his marriage. He couldn't even make it to another of our friend's marriages since it conflicted with his wife wanting to do something or other that day.
The other was a bit more assertive. He moved to another city for her. She tried to stop him from visiting Baltimore. He stopped seeing his friends in Baltimore. She then tried to go too far, she tried to get him to cut off his friendship with me (his closest friend) with his mother and brother. He refused. Within a year they were divorced.
Women (and men) who are that controlling can't deal with their spouces having someone else they are close to. Close friendships, even family members, are seen as a threat. They have to control their spouce's relationships and won't be able to deal with their spouce having good friends. Unless your friend is very strong, you will be out anyway. May as well try to talk to him, you have nothing to lose (just be careful how you put it).
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If the father is like that, then there's nothing in the world that you can tell the son that is going to make a bit of difference. Your friend is heading towards recreating his parent's relationship.
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If it was just the fiancee, he might be able to get out, but I'll bet he's never stood up to Mama in his whole life. It's over, man.
Too true
Post by: InfidelSerf on April 30, 2006, 06:28:38 AM
A true friend is someone who is sitting next to you in the cell saying "Damn that was fun!"
I'd say lay it on the line. Tell him that because he is a great friend and always will be that you need to be honest with him.
Tell him if this IS 100% what he wants then you will stand up there and back him up. Because you are there for HIM not her, or the marriage.
But if you stand there and watch it happen without expressing your concerns, or worse just elect not to go to the wedding. Then you will be letting your friend down, not standing up for your sense of right and wrong.
I would however convince him to buck up be a man and stand up for his initial decision to have you be the best man.
That IS the one decision a man should have.
If he is not willing to do that.. then your case is made.
Personally I'm the kind of jerk that would just tell the mother-in-law that you WILL be the best man.
Otherwise you could always go the drastic route of knocking your friend out and whisking him away to vegas for the wedding date
Post by: DrAmazon on April 30, 2006, 10:23:46 AM
Post by: Pb on April 30, 2006, 10:47:03 AM
There is a chance he would listen.
Post by: grislyatoms on April 30, 2006, 11:12:54 AM
He won't listen though, I am betting.
Post by: bg on April 30, 2006, 12:46:00 PM
in the camper and haul a$$ for the Mexican seashore way down
south until this malarkey blows over..
No man or woman should have to put with someone who
is always putting the nails to em and making them feel small..
Forget that, the Government does a good job of this already...
Post by: doczinn on April 30, 2006, 04:13:17 PM
Post by: RocketMan on April 30, 2006, 09:58:38 PM
But give it a shot, anyway. You, and more importantly your friend, might get lucky.
Post by: Stickjockey on May 01, 2006, 04:42:04 AM
Post by: BrokenPaw on May 01, 2006, 10:33:19 AM
I don't actually have a lot of hope that he'll stand up and tell her that the wedding's off. If he were going to do that, I imagine that he'd have done it already.
Mostly the question that I am wrestling with is: should I tell him that I can't support the marriage, and therefore can't stand with him and can't give a blessing speech, or should I stand with him in spite of the fact that I can't stand the fact that he's setting himself up for years of misery?
I guess at this point I can't really back out of standing with him. But the general consensus here, and the direction I was already leaning myself, actually, was to get together with him and have a lay-it-on-the-line conversation.
DrAmazon, I was actually in a relationship a while back where people did try to tell me what she was up to, and I didn't listen, and it ended up causing me tens of thousands of dollars. I never actually married her, but even so the legal hassle was far worse than it would have been if I'd listened to my friends. The thing that worries me about my friend's situation is that in less than two weeks, everything he owns becomes half hers, too. So in the space of minutes, her grip on him goes from purely-emotional to financial and legal as well.
And there's nothing that I can do about that. I have to concur with doczinn and the others he refers to; I need to tell him, and it probably won't do any good.
>sigh<
Ok, you all have confirmed what I was already thinking was the Right Thing to Do.
Thanks.
-BP
Post by: SpookyPistolero on May 01, 2006, 02:09:23 PM
But then I think you need to stand with him at the wedding. You're there because he's your friend and you support him, not because your a big fan of the bride. Gotta stick next to him even through the crappy stuff, even through bad decisions.
Post by: BrokenPaw on May 01, 2006, 03:57:59 PM
That's pretty much the plan that I had gravitated toward.
Now, if he decides to go through with it, I have to figure out what the heck I can say at the reception that won't be a flat-out lie.
-BP
Post by: mr.v. on May 01, 2006, 04:02:04 PM
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Mostly the question that I am wrestling with is: should I tell him that I can't support the marriage, and therefore can't stand with him and can't give a blessing speech, or should I stand with him in spite of the fact that I can't stand the fact that he's setting himself up for years of misery?
Before the Wedding: You say everything you want to say to him about the relationship. You can tell him everything you think about this Succubus and see how he responds. Be prepared that he may still marry her.At the Wedding: You stand by him and honor his decision even if you think it's wrong because you are his friend and there to support him. It's not about you and your feelings...period.
After the Wedding: you respect the decision he made even though you KNOW it was wrong and act civilly and politely with his wife even though she's his succubus maximus.
At least that's what I'd do for my friend. Then again I don't have that many friends...
Post by: Antibubba on May 01, 2006, 05:27:47 PM
Honestly, if he won't stand up for you being best man, then I wouldn't bother going. Weddings are supposed to be joyous events.
On the bright side, it's good you found out before you were ever in a crisis where you'd have to depend on him.
Post by: doczinn on May 01, 2006, 07:18:31 PM
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Get them an early wedding gift: His N Her Strap-Ons. It sounds like she wants one, and it sounds like he needs one.
Laughing my sick freakin' ass off!
Post by: Strings on May 02, 2006, 07:50:03 PM
Post by: BrokenPaw on May 03, 2006, 04:19:12 AM
He told me how much it meant to him that he had someone who cared about him enough to say all of this to him. Then he said that he was going through with the wedding anyway.
Which is about what I expected, so that wasn't a surprise. Then I told him that I couldn't help but feel like my primary role in all of this would be to help him pick up the pieces of his life in a year or two when (not if) things go south.
And this is the part of it that weirded me out: He didn't even seem to contemplate the possibility that things would not need pieces picked up. It's like he knows that he's on the express train to hell, and is fully cognizant of the fact that he's heading for misery. And he's going anyway.
There's some part of this puzzle that I'm not seeing.
Well. As I said, he's a big kid, and I'm not his mom. So I am going to stand with him, and afterwards I am going to make a speech for him, not for them. Because there is no them. There's the hope of him coming out the other side of this, and it's my job to be there if he does.
Thanks for all your thoughts, all.
-BP
Post by: SpookyPistolero on May 03, 2006, 04:23:26 AM
Post by: Shalako on May 03, 2006, 07:44:53 AM
I have a friend who married a gal like that. Pure misery. For your friend, its all going to boil down to:
1. There is NO way he can make her happy.
2. For her, making him happy is not even a priority
Not a real good recipe for a marriage.....
Post by: RevDisk on May 04, 2006, 10:44:41 AM
You did the right thing. But it's his choice. Folks gotta learn to stand on their own two feet eventually.