Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on November 06, 2012, 11:22:34 PM
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Fox is calling it for Obama
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We all least it will be a relatively quick *expletive deleted*ing rather than a slow painful *expletive deleted*ing.
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Rand Paul 2016. Unless Hillary runs, then everyone will want to vote in the first female President.
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And somehow the Republicans hold the House. Divided government, at least.
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*expletive deleted*ck the GOP for screwing this up
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I hope they have the balls to hold the line.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure they've all been castrated.....
[censored]
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*expletive deleted* the GOP for screwing this up
+1,000,000,000,000
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Maybe if we're really lucky we'll finally hit the point where people will see that this country is hopelessly divided.
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Short of a miracle, yeeeeeeeep.
*expletive deleted*ed, we are. I'm having a drink.
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I think i'll join you Lupinus....
If it fits in one glass, it's still considered *one* drink, right?
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Maybe if we're really lucky we'll finally hit the point where people will see that this country is hopelessly divided.
Then let the other side pool and redistribute their own money and leave my $$ the *expletive deleted*ck alone. I'm good with that
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Then let the other side pool and redistribute their own money and leave my $$ the *expletive deleted* alone. I'm good with that
I'm also adopting an "open discrimination" policy towards all Democrats (non violent). My money will not go to any Democrat. Any friends who voted Democrat will no longer be friends. Anyone working for me that is a democrat, won't work for me for long.
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I think i'll join you Lupinus....
If it fits in one glass, it's still considered *one* drink, right?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.ebaumsworld.com%2Fpicture%2Fdan_richard13%2FGiant_Beer_Glass.jpg&hash=fd2e8f4815306ab04f8f9c71d74dd7626d9c556e)
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Funcorkedevents.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2Fbig_beer_1.jpg&hash=bbb393563e4e268af0da37b3e9f1126c4e444ad5)
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I'm also adopting an "open discrimination" policy towards all Democrats (non violent). My money will not go to any Democrat. Any friends who voted Democrat will no longer be friends. Anyone working for me that is a democrat, won't work for me for long.
Sounds like a plan to me....until they drag us to Gitmo.....
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Sounds like a plan to me....until they drag us to Gitmo.....
Nice weather, free housing, three meals a day, medical care....hey sounds like the libtard dream zone!
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So when do I get my free phone?
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No surprise. Gop lost this one in tampa.
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Coincidentally, SWMBO's phone died tonight. I suppose I can get her an Obamaphone.
(I know I said I was going to bed earlier. Can't sleep. Listening to Hugh Hewitt and his crew make excuses on his online show.)
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*expletive deleted* the GOP for screwing this up
+1,000,000,000,000
+2,000,000,000,000
I may very well go down and reregister as either independant or libertarian .... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
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This may be my last election, as tired as I am getting of this whole charade. Casting votes for nothing, especially in the People's Republic of Oregon. I'm done with the Repubs anyway.
I said during discussions here during the 2008 election cycle that the American electorate wants socialism. I stand by that assessment. Most of them don't even know what socialism is, but what they yearn for cannot be called anything else. Stupid, stupid people.
Another prediction: The House goes permanently blue within two election cycles.
And another: Obama gets to make two SCOTUS appointments in the next two years.
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+2,000,000,000,000
I may very well go down and reregister as either independant or libertarian .... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I'm pretty sure 5 trillion would have been a more appropriate amount. Although now that he's been re-elected, perhaps 10 trillion would be most apt.
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I may very well go down and reregister as either independant or libertarian .... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
:laugh:
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You know, I'm actually hoping for a repeat of 2000.... I hope that the media got this thing all screwed up again with their projections....
But I have a feeling this is a nightmare I'm not gonna wake up from.
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I've really gotta think this will help me in my "Selling some AK's" efforts... If you're a WA resident and want a nifty light AMD-65 sans 4473 let me know.
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I hope he fails.
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I said during discussions here during the 2008 election cycle that the American electorate wants socialism. I stand by that assessment. Most of them don't even know what socialism is, but what they yearn for cannot be called anything else.
The American electorate loves mugging by government and doesn't care what it's called.
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I said during discussions here during the 2008 election cycle that the American electorate wants socialism. I stand by that assessment. Most of them don't even know what socialism is, but what they yearn for cannot be called anything else. Stupid, stupid people.
Another prediction: The House goes permanently blue within two election cycles.
Isn't that what happened after the Great Depression? It broke America, and made her give up on her fundamental beliefs. But then we got a shot in the arm when we had to fight the Nazis and the Commies. Now that's over, and another depression comes along, and we do it all over again. :facepalm:
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All the commies have nukes and the nazis are kinda unimpressive these days. So that leaves... Uhh...
?
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I may very well go down and reregister as either independant or libertarian ....
:lol:
I take it you would approve if I were to do this ...... ???
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.
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edited for picture fail.
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Huh? ???
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*expletive deleted*ck me with a rabid squirrel
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*expletive deleted* me with a rabid squirrel
Protect your nuts. The Obama squirrels will redistribute them.
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And another: Obama gets to make two SCOTUS appointments in the next two years.
And that is the scariest part of the outcome. Obama will be long gone, yet his philosophies will be here to haunt for generations to come.
bob
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Don't worry about generations to come, worry about next year and the year after that.
Look, the truth is we needed a shock, and we got one. It was never going to be that easy. We did not take what is happening to America seriously enough. Now we will have to.
There are geniuses saying that the Republican Party must adapt to the current demographic transformation. I say the opposite. We need to get beyond race and ethnicity, not promote and embrace it. America is supposed to be about the individual, but right now it is about anything but.
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Yuri Bezmenov (alias Tomas Schuman), a Soviet KGB defector, explains in detail his scheme for the KGB process of subversion and takeover of target societies at a lecture in Los Angeles, 1983.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g
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Tag.
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Please, let's be honest with ourselves. No more bitching about a GOP candidate who "isn't conservative enough". Let's admit that, at least at this point in our history/demography, the statist mindset is ascendant. Take whatver steps you need in order to accommodate yourself to this reality. We are going to double down on the stupid.
This was a Lucy and the football moment. We (me among them) actually thought this was the time we really, actually would get to kick it. What suckers we are.
"The people have spoken... The bastards.". Churchill was right.
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I was holding on to a little hope that Obama [barf] would get his walking papers.
Time to reassess my position and see how much I can speed up my preperations.
On another bright note, I'm pretty much expecting to see the death warrant for my job announced tomorrow, subject to FCC approval of what I expect the company to be trying to do. Probably not a quick term proposition but still a PITA.
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We now live in a country worthy of Obama.
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Ten million more people getting food stamps and free phones made their wishes known - they want to keep getting free stuff. :mad:
I've little doubt that the GOP patriarchy is snickering behind the scenes, having washed their hands of some unapproved GOP candidates, saying "Well, so much for those %$@! tea party types who wouldn't support our choices - I hope those $#@!% like their new Democrat senators. That'll teach 'em not to go along with us!"
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We now live in a country worthy of Obama.
I wonder if the prophet Jeremiah, after all his warnings to Judah, got to the point that he just shrugged and said, "They had their chance....let it all burn." I'm about there now.
Here's hoping the Persians are as nice as they were the last go-around....
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I've little doubt that the GOP patriarchy is snickering behind the scenes, having washed their hands of some unapproved GOP candidates, saying "Well, so much for those %$@! tea party types who wouldn't support our choices - I hope those $#@!% like their new Democrat senators. That'll teach 'em not to go along with us!"
Well if that election doesnt make people want to take the GOP and its leadership and put them on the scrapheap, nothing will.
It was - at least viewed from this side of the pond - a much worse campaign than 2008, taking as it did a whole heap of advantages and making zero use of them.
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Let's admit that, at least at this point in our history/demography, the statist mindset is ascendant.
There is utterly no proof of this.
This was not ever a contest of a conservative and a liberal candidate.
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what still amazes me is how most everyone here thinks we would be better off if romney had won. you been drinkin' the koolaid.
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Well, who's Obama going to blame all the problems on now?
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us?
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There is utterly no proof of this.
This was not ever a contest of a conservative and a liberal candidate.
Which could be considered proof...you know, if a non-statist can not even make it to the ballot.
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Why did my post get deleted?
EDIT
sorry, wrong thread. Found it
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There are geniuses saying that the Republican Party must adapt to the current demographic transformation. I say the opposite. We need to get beyond race and ethnicity, not promote and embrace it. America is supposed to be about the individual, but right now it is about anything but.
Yes. Appealing to group x and group y makes Republicans into Democrats. If we want a small-government party, it has to be one that says "Here is the plan for the whole country, of whatever race, creed, gender we may be."
Let's divide Americans from America-haters, not black from white.
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There is utterly no proof of this.
This was not ever a contest of a conservative and a liberal candidate.
Doesn't matter. In politics, perception is reality. Whether Obama is more of a statist than Romney matters less than the how the electorate sees it. The voters thought they had a choice between a left-wing, full-tilt-and-boogie statist, and a center-right "moderate". They chose... poorly. Proof that you seek is impossible, because a rock-ribbed libertarian/conservative can't get a major party nomination. Which I believe illustrates my point. Which is:
Until we have a new and awful defining moment, that so clearly identifies the inherent weaknesses of statism/nanny state liberalism, we are not going to change the paradigm. Neither Benghazi, nor a bond-rating debacle, nor the bulldozing of a patently unConstitutional healthcare law the Congress, nor a festering, moribund economy has been enough to shake the electorate's faith in Big Government. It's going to take a dinosaur-killer type of event to shake the electorate's view of our benevolent, paternalistic state. I don't want to imagine how much suffering that transformative event would have to cause.
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Heard several pundits on TV making excuses for the weak candidate pool last night and talking up how the young stud rising stars of the GOP stayed out of the race and how excited they are for 2016.
:facepalm:
The GOP has no balls, especially if the President isn't investigated and impeached over Bengazi.
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Doesn't matter. In politics, perception is reality. Whether Obama is more of a statist than Romney matters less than the how the electorate sees it. The voters thought they had a choice between a left-wing, full-tilt-and-boogie statist, and a center-right "moderate".
Not the majority of voters (those who voted for Obama). They thought it was a choice between a moderate center/leftist and a job-outsourcer that also takes away health care.
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Eight years of Clinton, eight years of Bush capped off by eight years of Obama?
There is no way the republic can withstand that shellacking and survive in any recognizable shape.
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Why did my post get deleted?
Obama [barf] had it redacted
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Doesn't matter. In politics, perception is reality. Whether Obama is more of a statist than Romney matters less than the how the electorate sees it. The voters thought they had a choice between a left-wing, full-tilt-and-boogie statist, and a center-right "moderate". They chose... poorly. Proof that you seek is impossible, because a rock-ribbed libertarian/conservative can't get a major party nomination.
And yet Reagan did and Goldwater did.
Romney was incapable of enunciating his position, of explaining why 'his way was better'. This is why he lost, and why he thoroughly deserved to lose.
It is foolish to wait for a cataclysmic event to 'demonstrate' something to the voters - people whose views tend towards the megastate will simply 'conclude' that 'the system has failed' and the solution is even more megastate solutions. This is how every major emergency, and almost every fake emergency, in the last 100 years had worked out. WW1, the Great Depression, WW2, Vietnam, the Cold War, the Kennedy assassination, the crime wave of the 1970's and 1980's, the War on Terror and the last 'market collapse' - each of these left the political status-quo to 'conclude' naturally what it had always wanted to conclude - that more and expanded state measures were supposedly needed. The only way that the public will ever make a new conclusion is activism (from voting to civil disobedience) and educational efforts to persuade them that something different would work. There are no short-cuts. Cowardice won't work, crafty political subterfuge won't work, miracles will not happen. Only the bravery to repeatedly restate the truth and the hard work of repeating the truth again and again, year after year, during elections and in off-years, no matter how unpopular or ridiculous it might seem, will eventually shift the game.
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I'm also adopting an "open discrimination" policy towards all Democrats (non violent). My money will not go to any Democrat. Any friends who voted Democrat will no longer be friends. Anyone working for me that is a democrat, won't work for me for long.
What if your best worker is a Democrat?
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Well, who's Obama going to blame all the problems on now?
"It's Bush's Fault"®
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Time to pick up the pieces and move forward. I'm worried however.
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Work (in a fed building, where partisan political talk is supposed to be banned) is going to be intolerable today.
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There are a lot of people worried here where I work. We are not an overhead project... so there's a very real danger of sequestration destroying our jobs.
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The politics of failure have failed. We need to make them work again.
"It's Bush's Fault"®
This. Obama's excuses won't change any.
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Polls last night were showing that the public believes the economy is still Bush's fault. ;/
The GOP has no balls, especially if the President isn't investigated and impeached over Bengazi.
You're assuming the public is going to hear the story. If an embassy is attacked and people die, and you don't hear it from the media, did the embassy get attacked?
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I know the origin/attribution are in question, but the sentiment seems appropriate, anyway.
" A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage. "
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Even if Romney got in, merely a change of plantation owners with minimal disruption in the ongoing statist project.
I didn't vote so at least I am not part of the problem. Ask yourself this: how much would you pay to cast an individual vote? The reason lobbyists spend so much is they are laser-focused on a specific wealth transfer. The R and D factions spent almost two billion to get at the helm of trillions of dollars, that is a healthy return on investment for the winner. The individual vote: worthless.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk)
What next? Prep for the coming collapse. Stop wasting time on politics.
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Even if Romney got in, merely a change of plantation owners with minimal disruption in the ongoing statist project.
I didn't vote so at least I am not part of the problem. Ask yourself this: how much would you pay to cast an individual vote? The reason lobbyists spend so much is they are laser-focused on a specific wealth transfer. The R and D factions spent almost two billion to get at the helm of trillions of dollars, that is a healthy return on investment for the winner. The individual vote: worthless.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk)
What next? Prep for the coming collapse. Stop wasting time on politics.
You didn't vote and you're not part of the problem? :facepalm:
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I know the origin/attribution are in question, but the sentiment seems appropriate, anyway.
" A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage. "
That is about what I see for the future. I don't know if there is a way to stop this snowball from growing. The president said he has a lot of work to do... understatement of the year..... I don't see blue skys and sun shine. I see cloudy skys and a storm that is brewing.
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You didn't vote and you're not part of the problem? :facepalm:
Do you REALLY think Romney was going to about-face the whole host of problems caused by the previous 2+ administrations?
Really?
Look at the number of people who deliberately didn't vote.
It's greater than the number of people who did.
We voted for NobodyTM.
NobodyTM will balance the budget.
NobodyTM will stop the warmongering.
NobodyTM will repeal the Patriot Act.
NobodyTM will honor States' Rights.
and so on.
NobodyTM is the only sane candidate.
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Only one question was asked in this election and we received only one answer: "How fast will we go into the wall". Avoiding the wall was never on the agenda. When engaging in a post election navel-fest avoid the tendency to redefine the participants. Romney was and is a northeastern republican. He was never going to do what had to be done to salvage the republic. No chance that he would dismantle our incipient police state. No chance that he would really deal with the causes of inflation. No chance that he would cut back on spending. It just was not going to happen. Well now we have re-elected a man who is by any measure an abysmal failure at governance with the added feature he has no agenda. It will not take long for the man to assume the role of a wolf amongst sheep. He will become out of control in implementing his agenda. And all we have standing between us and his utopian wet dreams is a gelded republican party.
I normally go to the likker store on Friday. I had to make a trip today just to make it to Friday.
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NobodyTM is the only sane candidate.
So true.
Only one question was asked in this election and we received only one answer: "How fast will we go into the wall". Avoiding the wall was never on the agenda. When engaging in a post election navel-fest avoid the tendency to redefine the participants. Romney was and is a northeastern republican. He was never going to do what had to be done to salvage the republic. No chance that he would dismantle our incipient police state. No chance that he would really deal with the causes of inflation. No chance that he would cut back on spending. It just was not going to happen. Well now we have re-elected a man who is by any measure an abysmal failure at governance with the added feature he has no agenda. It will not take long for the man to assume the role of a wolf amongst sheep. He will become out of control in implementing his agenda. And all we have standing between us and his utopian wet dreams is a gelded republican party.
That as well.
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Monkeyleg,
Really? I respectfully disagree. So I just want to get this straight: there is a contest between two serial killers to have an impact on my life, one has murdered thirteen and the other twelve and I should vote for the lesser of two evils which, of course, means I have a preference for evil. My vote does not mean a damn thing in national elections. It makes no economic sense nor does it make a difference in the insane sinking statist ship America.
Now once NOBODY is a candidate and a majority of votes leaves the office vacant if NOBODY gets the majority of votes, I will go to the polls. Until then, I will spend election day reloading and prepping.
Civic responsibility and duty is obedience to government and nothing more ornate than that.
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Heard several pundits on TV making excuses for the weak candidate pool last night and talking up how the young stud rising stars of the GOP stayed out of the race and how excited they are for 2016.
:facepalm:
The GOP has no balls, especially if the President isn't investigated and impeached over Bengazi.
By 2016 the Constitution will have been shredded. They are dreaming.
I am hearing a lot of escapist nonsense from the rightwing chatter class this morning. They can't accept the reality of what has happened. Go back to the '60s and figure it out, pundit geniuses. All they think of us is how they need to "brown" the GOP. Yes, let us think with our DNA, that will save liberty.
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Doesn't matter. In politics, perception is reality. Whether Obama is more of a statist than Romney matters less than the how the electorate sees it. The voters thought they had a choice between a left-wing, full-tilt-and-boogie statist, and a center-right "moderate". They chose... poorly. Proof that you seek is impossible, because a rock-ribbed libertarian/conservative can't get a major party nomination. Which I believe illustrates my point. Which is:
Until we have a new and awful defining moment, that so clearly identifies the inherent weaknesses of statism/nanny state liberalism, we are not going to change the paradigm. Neither Benghazi, nor a bond-rating debacle, nor the bulldozing of a patently unConstitutional healthcare law the Congress, nor a festering, moribund economy has been enough to shake the electorate's faith in Big Government. It's going to take a dinosaur-killer type of event to shake the electorate's view of our benevolent, paternalistic state. I don't want to imagine how much suffering that transformative event would have to cause.
And outside "politics" reality is still reality. We are still going to implode financially and we are still going to find ourselves dealing with an implacable enemy abroad and we are still at sea as a culture internally.
We needed a shock, though, to remind us we are at war, and we got one. That is worth something. Reality is a great teacher.
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And yet Reagan did and Goldwater did.
Romney was incapable of enunciating his position, of explaining why 'his way was better'. This is why he lost, and why he thoroughly deserved to lose.
It is foolish to wait for a cataclysmic event to 'demonstrate' something to the voters - people whose views tend towards the megastate will simply 'conclude' that 'the system has failed' and the solution is even more megastate solutions. This is how every major emergency, and almost every fake emergency, in the last 100 years had worked out. WW1, the Great Depression, WW2, Vietnam, the Cold War, the Kennedy assassination, the crime wave of the 1970's and 1980's, the War on Terror and the last 'market collapse' - each of these left the political status-quo to 'conclude' naturally what it had always wanted to conclude - that more and expanded state measures were supposedly needed. The only way that the public will ever make a new conclusion is activism (from voting to civil disobedience) and educational efforts to persuade them that something different would work. There are no short-cuts. Cowardice won't work, crafty political subterfuge won't work, miracles will not happen. Only the bravery to repeatedly restate the truth and the hard work of repeating the truth again and again, year after year, during elections and in off-years, no matter how unpopular or ridiculous it might seem, will eventually shift the game.
Who was he to explain it to? There are not enough Romneys left, not in THIS America. First we need to face that.
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There's not enough Romneys?
Thank god for small favors.
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I think the tea party / GOP house should go full scorched earth. Debt ceiling? Don't raise it. Tax increases? Don't pass it. Etc. let the government shut down...
Think about it, without a debt ceiling increase, we BY DEFINITION obtain a balanced budget.
The ONLY vote mandate there is in this election is that the people prefer the house the way it is. MIT shifted dramatically in 2010, and the people responded with a substantial margin with "more of that".
The sooner the correction occurs, the less overall damage there will be.
Let the house force a choice between overwhelming statism (forced by the fixed debt ceiling and thus a forcing of a budget and selection of what matters) and an alternative, because I think only by experiencing the former will the population ever get a clue.
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By 2016 the Constitution will have been shredded. They are dreaming.
Guess the next question is "What do we plan to replace it with?...."
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I'm not a fan of Romney in the least, and I completely agree that he is a "Northeastern Republican" with many Dem tendencies but at least he didn't absolutely hate this country and everything it stands for. I highly doubt Romney would actively work to destroy the nation through his actions nor would he deliberately nominate justices like Elena "The Wise Latina" Kagen, justices who actively hate the constitution. Romney would have been a fairly lame-duck president IMHO but he's not the guy that grabs the wheel, cranks it over to aim the car at a bridge abutement, and stomps on the gas pedal.
We are not dealing with an inept idiot at the helm, remember that, folks. Obama is a highly indoctrinated communist who absolutely wants to wreck the country and he will do what he can to effect that. He's already given us so much in his first four years, now he's going to really crank it up I think. And his constituents will cheer mightily because one of the things he's going to do is to use mugging by federal government to give them what they want.
The worst thing about it is we won't be able to fight them unless there is a major change in the neocon controlled GOP. At this time, the GOP is the ONLY political party large enough and capable enough to counter them but the Republicans are only interested in sitting there fat, dumb and happy and putting up nothing more than a token protest.
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Does anyone have any sources for a full breakdown of Presidential candidates, including write-ins? I'm curious as to how many write-in votes Ron Paul got (I know this may not all be counted for a good while). I saw Gary Johnson seemed to average about 1% just about everywhere, except for some of the Northwestern states, where he was averaging 2%.
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I think the tea party / GOP house should go full scorched earth. Debt ceiling? Don't raise it. Tax increases? Don't pass it. Etc. let the government shut down...
Think about it, without a debt ceiling increase, we BY DEFINITION obtain a balanced budget.
The ONLY vote mandate there is in this election is that the people prefer the house the way it is. MIT shifted dramatically in 2010, and the people responded with a substantial margin with "more of that".
The sooner the correction occurs, the less overall damage there will be.
Let the house force a choice between overwhelming statism (forced by the fixed debt ceiling and thus a forcing of a budget and selection of what matters) and an alternative, because I think only by experiencing the former will the population ever get a clue.
I'd like to believe that. I really would. But they'll raise the debt ceiling in exchange for hollow promises just like last time. And again. And again. And again..... Presuming the whole house of cards doesn't collapse and then burst into flames, our great-great-grand children will be born into a slavery of debt from what we are going to experience in the next four years. :'(
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There's not enough Romneys?
Thank god for small favors.
By "Romneys" I mean Americans who care about liberty, care about morality. I don't mean his policies specifically. He was never my first or second choice.
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To win, you need to explain and promote the policies of liberty among those who do not yet share your views. This includes the 47%.
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I am tired of hearing about the "fastest growing minority constituency" in America. Is this about out-populating us? If so then we need to encourage our side to have more children, not figure out ways to compromise our remaining liberties. But that would run afoul of the people who are obsessed with abortion and everything that precedes it. We are intentionally stupid.
Well, one good thing is that liberals are a dying breed, literally.
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Does anyone have any sources for a full breakdown of Presidential candidates, including write-ins? I'm curious as to how many write-in votes Ron Paul got (I know this may not all be counted for a good while). I saw Gary Johnson seemed to average about 1% just about everywhere, except for some of the Northwestern states, where he was averaging 2%.
Google has a good interactive map that breaks things down in pretty good detail:
http://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results
They don't have the write-in info yet.
The only Swing State where Johnson voters might have siphoned off enough votes from Romney is FL. The Johnson votes were not a "spoiler" in the other potential battleground states (IA, VA, OH, NV, CO, WI. PA, NH).
Another thing that I found interesting was that, in NV, "none of these candidates" garnered ~5700 votes in the presidential race, and ~45,000 in the Senate race.
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To win, you need to explain and promote the policies of liberty among those who do not yet share your views. This includes the 47%.
Is that what you've done in your country? The people who get and promote liberty are and always will be a fraction. Until we accept that, face that, we are whistling in the dark.
There is a country for those who love liberty, but it is not any country that currently exists on this planet.
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Google has a good interactive map that breaks things down in pretty good detail:
http://www.google.com/elections/ed/us/results
They don't have the write-in info yet.
The only Swing State where Johnson voters might have siphoned off enough votes from Romney is FL. The Johnson votes were not a "spoiler" in the other potential battleground states (IA, VA, OH, NV, CO, WI. PA, NH).
Another thing that I found interesting was that, in NV, "none of these candidates" garnered ~5700 votes in the presidential race, and ~45,000 in the Senate race.
Johnson helped us in CO... many obama supporters voted for johnson this time around. Still not enough
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By "Romneys" I mean Americans who care about liberty, care about morality.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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The good news, if you can call it that, is there are forces about to impinge on the USofA that will swamp any president. With Romney we had a fighting chance, small as it was. With Obama we have no chance. The man is clueless. So I guess we finally achieve the goal of a number of Romney's brain trust. . . . let the opposition have it and we get to clean up the mess and create a better system. As small as our president has been in the past, he is about to become even smaller. He is not remotely capable of dealing with what is coming down on us.
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Is that what you've done in your country?
That is the only thing to do in any country. It is hard work and it takes time. But that's all there is.
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I cannot help but think of the situations before WWI and WWII where we look back and wonder how anyone thought something other than war would result.
I understand much better now. Although there were many Cassandras that did see it and were warning, leaders were willfully blind (and incompetent.)
Yes, I am saying that's where we are today. I have a very bad feeling that a real war will occur in the next few years. (No offense to those who served in Iraq and Afganistan, but what we faced there cannot be compared to facing the military of a country that has the capacity to wipe you out, as we did in WWI and WWII.)
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I cannot help but think of the situations before WWI and WWII where we look back and wonder how anyone thought something other than war would result.
I understand much better now. Although there were many Cassandras that did see it and were warning, leaders were willfully blind (and incompetent.)
Yes, I am saying that's where we are today. I have a very bad feeling that a real war will occur in the next few years. (No offense to those who served in Iraq and Afganistan, but what we faced there cannot be compared to facing the military of a country that has the capacity to wipe you out, as we did in WWI and WWII.)
Maybe they'll allow us to win the next one
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Maybe they'll allow us to win the next one
We won the "war" part, they just refused to rule over our enemies like a conquered nation so we lost on the "rebuilding" part.
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Yes, I am saying that's where we are today. I have a very bad feeling that a real war will occur in the next few years. (No offense to those who served in Iraq and Afganistan, but what we faced there cannot be compared to facing the military of a country that has the capacity to wipe you out, as we did in WWI and WWII.)
Yep, and its going to be worse than any living person has seen.
We won the "war" part, they just refused to rule over our enemies like a conquered nation so we lost on the "rebuilding" part.
Our enemies are currently regrouping and consolidating from Algeria to Pakistan, our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are a but a small bump in the road for them.
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What if your best worker is a Democrat?
Lol unlikely. But they will be fired.
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Is it too late to hope the Mayans were right?
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I didn't vote so at least I am not part of the problem. Ask yourself this: how much would you pay to cast an individual vote? The reason lobbyists spend so much is they are laser-focused on a specific wealth transfer. The R and D factions spent almost two billion to get at the helm of trillions of dollars, that is a healthy return on investment for the winner. The individual vote: worthless
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Yes. You are part of the problem
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Lol unlikely. But they will be fired.
Enjoy going to court then.
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Yes. You are part of the problem
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8445%2F7992491223_36d4bb1ea1.jpg&hash=e8907da40c4ad4394d4e15956ca975fddc61792d)
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Enjoy going to court then.
Nope. Right to work state. No court needed. And from my experience finding a reason, legit, to terminate the employment of a lefty is damn easy.
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I cannot help but think of the situations before WWI and WWII where we look back and wonder how anyone thought something other than war would result.
I understand much better now. Although there were many Cassandras that did see it and were warning, leaders were willfully blind (and incompetent.)
Yes, I am saying that's where we are today. I have a very bad feeling that a real war will occur in the next few years. (No offense to those who served in Iraq and Afganistan, but what we faced there cannot be compared to facing the military of a country that has the capacity to wipe you out, as we did in WWI and WWII.)
I was thinking along similar lines. We humans never think we will experience the same problems because we are better informed, will process the information differently, and our actions will avoid the mistakes of prior generations. Our arrogance and ignorance bite so often...
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I think the tea party / GOP house should go full scorched earth. Debt ceiling? Don't raise it. Tax increases? Don't pass it. Etc. let the government shut down...
Think about it, without a debt ceiling increase, we BY DEFINITION obtain a balanced budget.
The ONLY vote mandate there is in this election is that the people prefer the house the way it is. MIT shifted dramatically in 2010, and the people responded with a substantial margin with "more of that".
The sooner the correction occurs, the less overall damage there will be.
Let the house force a choice between overwhelming statism (forced by the fixed debt ceiling and thus a forcing of a budget and selection of what matters) and an alternative, because I think only by experiencing the former will the population ever get a clue.
I suspect 10% or less of the GOP majority in the House actually has the stones to do this. John Boehner? LOL...
It's a nice dream, but just a dream. =|
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I suspect 10% or less of the GOP majority in the House actually has the stones to do this. John Boehner? LOL...
You mean the same John Boehner who, two years ago, campaigned on a platform of rolling back spending to 2008 levels? THAT John Boenher?
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You mean the same John Boehner who, two years ago, campaigned on a platform of rolling back spending to 2008 levels? THAT John Boenher?
I can promise you a unicorn to get elected... doesn't mean i'll have the balls or ability to provide it.
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What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
The tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
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Nope. Right to work state. No court needed. And from my experience finding a reason, legit, to terminate the employment of a lefty is damn easy.
If I was fired because of my political beliefs you bet I would be dragging my employer to court.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.memegenerator.net%2Finstances%2F400x%2F19273365.jpg&hash=9c3e77ce40c1ddbd1a04dd49a0f28c021f192020)
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If I was fired because of my political beliefs you bet I would be dragging my employer to court.
If he never says anything about firing you for your politicsl beliefs then youve got no case
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If he never says anything about firing you for your politicsl beliefs then youve got no case
He has posted it in a public forum, well if he was my boss.
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I work for a company which has as some of its better funded clients some very large insurance companies -- including health insurance -- whose landscape is about to change.
We're scrambling here to position ourselves to respond to their evolving needs, but there is nothing in the current events that offers a rainbow to go with the clouds.
If we're gonna survive and thrive, we're gonna have to shovel an epic amount of coal.
Additionally, my wife and I will have to speed up our plans to move what I do into her business model.
If you are not already the best at what you do, this would be a good time to remedy that.
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Monkeyleg,
Really? I respectfully disagree. So I just want to get this straight: there is a contest between two serial killers to have an impact on my life, one has murdered thirteen and the other twelve and I should vote for the lesser of two evils which, of course, means I have a preference for evil. My vote does not mean a damn thing in national elections. It makes no economic sense nor does it make a difference in the insane sinking statist ship America.
Now once NOBODY is a candidate and a majority of votes leaves the office vacant if NOBODY gets the majority of votes, I will go to the polls. Until then, I will spend election day reloading and prepping.
Civic responsibility and duty is obedience to government and nothing more ornate than that.
Only way to get somebody besides one of the two wings of the Modern American Political Machine is to VOTE for someone besides one of the two wings of the Modern American Political Machine. My ballot had half a dozen candidate pairs for President and Vice President, one of which was markedly better in terms of respecting liberty than any of the others. Getting them to 5% of the vote total would have added another party to guaranteed 50-state (maybe 51, now) ballot access and access to the election funds donated via tax return every year, rather than having to waste time, energy, and money fighting off spurious ballot-access lawsuits as they do now. Might even get them into the debates, as well, assisting in public awareness that Tweedledee and Tweedledum aren't the only two choices in the race.
Don't like voting for one of the two serial killers, to borrow your example? VOTE FOR SOMEONE ELSE. I did.
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What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
The tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
Thank you Capt. Wild Bill Kelso!
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We have tons and tons of posts here all saying that there's no difference between Obama and Romney. I can't believe that anyone actually believes that, or believes that there's no difference between GW and Obama.
Yeah, GW ran deficits. His worst budget deficit was $400 billion, and deficits in other years were in small by comparison. Obama, OTOH, has consistently run up $1+ trillion deficits, and will for the rest of his term. Where is it written that Romney would have run up the same sort of deficits?
Does anyone here think that any president--Democrat or Republican--other than Obama would have allowed our people in Benghazi to be killed as they were? Does anyone think that Romney would have extorted the bond holders of GM and Chrysler as Obama did?
Y'know, it's funny. Liberals will get behind a candidate who doesn't support some or even all of their views, and will support him enthusiastically. Conservatives and libertarians too often take an all-or-nothing approach, and candidates get beaten half to death just in the primaries. Maybe that's why we don't get candidates that are more to our liking. Who wants to go through that?
For all of his shortcomings, Mitt Romney is an honest man with an unimpeachable character, and a history of success and of selfless generosity. Barack Obama is a gangster and con artist, a serial liar, and so self-absorbed and selfish that he let people die at the hands of our enemies rather than damage his chances for re-election. He makes Nixon look like a choir boy.
Yeah, there's no difference.
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Thank you ML, for summing it up better then I could have.
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Y'know, it's funny. Liberals will get behind a candidate who doesn't support some or even all of their views, and will support him enthusiastically. Conservatives and libertarians too often take an all-or-nothing approach, and candidates get beaten half to death just in the primaries. Maybe that's why we don't get candidates that are more to our liking. Who wants to go through that?
The problem is that the entire system of government/media has been sliding to the left for many many years. Liberals know that all they need to do to eventually get everything they want is to defend their politicians, no matter how bad they are- having no morals is actually their biggest advantage.
Republicans time and time again nominate a candidate who is closer to the middle, has a marginal backbone, but might be of choir boy character. It works out ok in the short term, but in the long term, they inadvertantly give way small steps further and further to the left. The liberals still get their agenda through, just on a protracted timeline.
We are at a point where a lot of people's personal political lines in the sand have been crossed and they have little to no patience left for a candidate who is sort of righty on some issues and sort of lefty on others when we really need a candidate who is willing to stand up and take back the ground that has been lost over the decades.
We are at a point in our country where romney would be a slow growing, yet still deadly tumor, and Obama would be full blown AIDS. Electing Romney is just putting off the inevitable by a few more years.
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For all of his shortcomings, Mitt Romney is an honest man with an unimpeachable character, and a history of success and of selfless generosity. Barack Obama is a gangster and con artist, a serial liar, and so self-absorbed and selfish that he let people die at the hands of our enemies rather than damage his chances for re-election. He makes Nixon look like a choir boy.
Yup! And remember the people handling Romney had to agree // coordinate with the opposite team // big media to shut off any discussion of the Benghazi fiasco. So, yeah, Romney is a Certified Good Guy but his handlers are not.
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He has posted it in a public forum, well if he was my boss.
Good luck. There are millions of lawyers waiting to take a case, of they had one they could win.
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Electing Romney is just putting off the inevitable by a few more years.
Just what is "the inevitable"? A Red Dawn scenario? Greece? Do we get to shoot people? I'm itching to try my M4gery on live targets.
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I don't think it's about the individuals anymore Monkeyleg. Romney on a very personal level may be all that you say he is, yet he is still a willing cog in a terminally FUBARed system. Any cogs that won't fit and work the twisted mechanism as intended aren't allowed anywhere near where he got.
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Just what is "the inevitable"? A Red Dawn scenario? Greece? Do we get to shoot people? I'm itching to try my M4gery on live targets.
The full adaptation of socalism or a dictatorship (and no, considering who won, I really don't think it's too much a streach to think he won't be leaving in four more years)
What we the people choose to do about it is another story entirely.
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Does is really matter, Cthulhu is going to torture and eat us all on Dec 21, 2012.
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Good luck. There are millions of lawyers waiting to take a case, of they had one they could win.
So do you own your own company?
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His worst budget deficit was $400 billion, and deficits in other years were in small by comparison. Obama, OTOH, has consistently run up $1+ trillion deficits, and will for the rest of his term.
As requested, or as finally enacted by Congress? Obama has requested a $901 billion budget this year.
Frankly, I don't care what Romney's character is. I'm sure he's a good family man - but I'm not marrying Romney.
Romney's ideology was non-existent - he was therefore unable to compete with Obama in a contest of ideas.
I'm not some advocate for perfection - throughout this process, ever since the primaries started, every time this was brought up on those boards, I listed many candidates I viewed as superior to Romney - and most of them were not some kind of conservative radical bomb-throwers.
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>Only way to get somebody besides one of the two wings of the Modern American Political Machine is to VOTE for someone besides one of the two wings of the Modern American Political Machine. My ballot had half a dozen candidate pairs for President and Vice President, one of which was markedly better in terms of respecting liberty than any of the others. Getting them to 5% of the vote total would have added another party to guaranteed 50-state (maybe 51, now) ballot access and access to the election funds donated via tax return every year, rather than having to waste time, energy, and money fighting off spurious ballot-access lawsuits as they do now. Might even get them into the debates, as well, assisting in public awareness that Tweedledee and Tweedledum aren't the only two choices in the race.<
You know, I've been hearing that for years now. Don't think the few who would endorse Third Party candidates are enough, not with the current lock the big 2 have.
Of course, no incumbent next election cycle. Maybe it's time for the third parties to... subvert the process
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No surprise. Gop lost this one in tampa.
Nope. Obama was over the 270 before Florida was decided.
To be honest, I was truly expecting a landslide for Romney. I guess I'm more hopelessly naive than I ever knew, because I just didn't understand how many really hard-core stupid people there are in this country.
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>Only way to get somebody besides one of the two wings of the Modern American Political Machine is to VOTE for someone besides one of the two wings of the Modern American Political Machine. My ballot had half a dozen candidate pairs for President and Vice President, one of which was markedly better in terms of respecting liberty than any of the others. Getting them to 5% of the vote total would have added another party to guaranteed 50-state (maybe 51, now) ballot access and access to the election funds donated via tax return every year, rather than having to waste time, energy, and money fighting off spurious ballot-access lawsuits as they do now. Might even get them into the debates, as well, assisting in public awareness that Tweedledee and Tweedledum aren't the only two choices in the race.<
You know, I've been hearing that for years now. Don't think the few who would endorse Third Party candidates are enough, not with the current lock the big 2 have.
Of course, no incumbent next election cycle. Maybe it's time for the third parties to... subvert the process
For a third party to be viable they will need to appeal to a larger segment of the population and not come off as some half baked Kook.
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For a third party to be viable they will need to appeal to a larger segment of the population and not come off as some half baked Kook.
.....and get a solid footing in the state governments. A Libertarian majority in any state would give the Fed a major headache.....and the other states a good example....
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For a third party to be viable they will need to appeal to a larger segment of the population and not come off as some half baked Kook.
^^ yup and working against that is the way the loons flock to third party candidates and the loons are so loud they become the public face
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Nope. Obama was over the 270 before Florida was decided.
Did you intentionally miss the point in order to make a joke? They lost it at the convention, the actual election was just a formality.
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.....and get a solid footing in the state governments. A Libertarian majority in any state would give the Fed a major headache.....and the other states a good example....
And this is what would build a sizable base. Without that, you aren't getting anywhere.
But they don't. They field presidential candidates that haven't got a chance of winning and that most people have never heard of.
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Did you intentionally miss the point in order to make a joke? They lost it at the convention, the actual election was just a formality.
Oh.
No joke intended, I guess I didn't see the sarcasm icon.
Personally, I thought Romney was a good (not great) candidate, and I thought he had the best chance among the Republicans to beat Obama.
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To be honest, I was truly expecting a landslide for Romney. I guess I'm more hopelessly naive than I ever knew, because I just didn't understand how many really hard-core stupid people there are in this country.
You weren't the only one.
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The pubs should already be thinking about a candidate for the next pres election. Someone like Marco Rubio or Bobby Jindal. Someone who would appeal the the younger generation. They really have to get away from appealing to mostly white males of the baby boomer generation.
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The pubs should already be thinking about a candidate for the next pres election. Someone like Marco Rubio or Bobby Jindal. Someone who would appeal the the younger generation. They really have to get away from appealing to mostly white males of the baby boomer generation.
At LEAST a damn moderate. Run a Romney again and I'll either vote Libertarian (again) or go out for chicken wings and say hell with it.
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The pubs should already be thinking about a candidate for the next pres election. Someone like Marco Rubio or Bobby Jindal. Someone who would appeal the the younger generation. They really have to get away from appealing to mostly white males of the baby boomer generation.
I have read and heard several political analysis stories saying the same thing: the current base of the Republicans is older white males who live in suburban or rural communities, and that base is shrinking. Appealing more to younger voters, women and minorities is identified as key to the Republicans getting a larger number of voters.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324073504578105334012558100.html?mod=WSJ_GoogleNews&mod=igoogle_wsj_gadgv1
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Younger folks, a majority of single women and minorities aren't interested in liberty.
They want wealth and property "spread around" "fairly".
They want government to fill the void left by the lack of nuclear and extended family support structure.
Welcome to the postmodern paradise, it has only just begun.
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The pubs should already be thinking about a candidate for the next pres election. Someone like Marco Rubio or Bobby Jindal. Someone who would appeal the the younger generation. They really have to get away from appealing to mostly white males of the baby boomer generation.
That's easy. Just change the platform to tax the rich, spend all we can, marry the gayeses and open the borders.
In reality, women, minorities and young people have opted for the backward, bloodthirsty, barbaric policies of Barack Obama. That is what they demand. The only ways to attract them are to change the party to reflect that, or reform their culture.
We've all heard the charge leveled at the Tea Party, that it's too many white people and not enough color. No one seems to realize that it's the "diverse" crowd that needs to explain why they won't show up (or not enough of them) to rally in support of liberty, reason, progress, etc.
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Younger folks, a majority of single women and minorities aren't interested in liberty.
They want wealth and property "spread around" "fairly".
They want government to fill the void left by the lack of nuclear and extended family support structure.
Welcome to the postmodern paradise, it has only just begun.
You may be on to something there, Ron.
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Obama's policies are essentially George Bush's - if we didn't think the bush tax cuts (extended by Obama), the bush trillion dollar deficit (Bush's last budget, continued by Obama), the worldwide war on terror (continued by Obama), or the handouts to the health insurers (Bush prescription drug benefit, Obamacare following in its footsteps)....if none of that was going to destroy America, why are we panicking now?
Thinking that Obama hates America or is a bad guy doesn't change his policies. I agree they're the wrong direction for the country, but I find it curious that anyone would be so upset at Romney losing when he gave every indication of simply continuing each major policy.
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The answer of course is that we must not merely VOTE for our party candidate, but become emotionally invested in his victory, no matter how ridiculous the candidate in question.
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Obama's policies are essentially George Bush's - if we didn't think the bush tax cuts (extended by Obama), the bush trillion dollar deficit (Bush's last budget, continued by Obama), the worldwide war on terror (continued by Obama), or the handouts to the health insurers (Bush prescription drug benefit, Obamacare following in its footsteps)....if none of that was going to destroy America, why are we panicking now?
Thinking that Obama hates America or is a bad guy doesn't change his policies. I agree they're the wrong direction for the country, but I find it curious that anyone would be so upset at Romney losing when he gave every indication of simply continuing each major policy.
Not each major policy. Also, you will understand this better if you recall that conservatives and libertarians have been bemoaning Bush's policies since about 2001. Many of us worried that panic-worthy stuff would result. The worriers were correct.
Of course, since you'd prefer to remember history in the way that suits your apparent need to needle Americans...
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Obama's policies are essentially George Bush's - if we didn't think the bush tax cuts (extended by Obama), the bush trillion dollar deficit (Bush's last budget, continued by Obama), the worldwide war on terror (continued by Obama), or the handouts to the health insurers (Bush prescription drug benefit, Obamacare following in its footsteps)....if none of that was going to destroy America, why are we panicking now?
Thinking that Obama hates America or is a bad guy doesn't change his policies. I agree they're the wrong direction for the country, but I find it curious that anyone would be so upset at Romney losing when he gave every indication of simply continuing each major policy.
Romney campaigned on repealing Obamacare which (unlike "Romneycare") has 21 new taxes in it and is the largest tax hike on the middle class American in history. That's hardly "continuing" Obama's policies. He also understood that some deregulation of business was necessary, as well as opening up oil production and that pesky oil pipeline.
Really, painting Romney as a Neo Obama is just silly.
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As requested, or as finally enacted by Congress? Obama has requested a $901 billion budget this year.
Frankly, I don't care what Romney's character is. I'm sure he's a good family man - but I'm not marrying Romney.
Romney's ideology was non-existent - he was therefore unable to compete with Obama in a contest of ideas.
I'm not some advocate for perfection - throughout this process, ever since the primaries started, every time this was brought up on those boards, I listed many candidates I viewed as superior to Romney - and most of them were not some kind of conservative radical bomb-throwers.
Romney's ideology was not non-existant, it was poorly explained. But over-all Romney explained himself and his ideas well enough for those who pay attention to understand how he differed with Obama.
Too bad so many Americans don't pay attention and are totally clueless.
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Romney was always known as a mushy North-Easterner.
Romney had supported an individual mandate in Massachusets - and the major beef most people have with Obamacare is the individual mandate.
It's Romney's advisors that called it an Etch-a-Sketch, not evil Democrats.
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Romney had supported an individual mandate in Massachusets - and the major beef most people have with Obamacare is the individual mandate.
So he DID have an ideology it was just the wrong one. Romney stated his case on more than one occasion: Such a program might be acceptable on a state level but not on a federal level. See the 10th amendment to the USC.
It's Romney's advisors that called it an Etch-a-Sketch, not evil Democrats.
And that's what I call "poorly explained." Q.E.D.
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Romney was always known as a mushy North-Easterner.
Romney had supported an individual mandate in Massachusets - and the major beef most people have with Obamacare is the individual mandate.
It's Romney's advisors that called it an Etch-a-Sketch, not evil Democrats.
His political beliefs and policies curiously changed in sync with each electorate he faced - what're the odds that he developed new views on healthcare and abortion at precisely the same moment he faced primary election by people who would've taken issue with his old beliefs?
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His political beliefs and policies curiously changed in sync with each electorate he faced - what're the odds that he developed new views on healthcare and abortion at precisely the same moment he faced primary election by people who would've taken issue with his old beliefs?
A common beef against Romney, and I don't take issue with it. But I'm curious what it has to do with this discussion.
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His political beliefs and policies curiously changed in sync with each electorate he faced - what're the odds that he developed new views on healthcare and abortion at precisely the same moment he faced primary election by people who would've taken issue with his old beliefs?
Like Obamanoid changing his position on homosexual marriage?
Or whether Qitmo should be closed?
Or Obamacare being a mandate or a tax?
It would be nice if we could be a country not ruled by politicians, but it's what we have. I've seen what other countries have in the way of the profession and I am usually much less amused by them than by ours. :P
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Tommy, EXACTLY - that was the point. Just like Obama.
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Tommy, EXACTLY - that was the point. Just like Obama.
So I should get all excited about the fact that politicians do that?
Do you know why Abraham Lincoln was called "Honest Abe?" Back then politicians used to campaign via trains ... you might recall them doing "whistle stops." The train would stop at a station and the candidate would stand out on an open platform on the rear of the train and address a crowd, telling them his stand on issues, answering inquiries, so forth.
An intrepid reporter, following Lincoln around, noted he would tell each crowd what he thought they wanted to hear, regardless of whether he contradicted a previous stated position at another stop. The reporter coined the term "Honest Abe" not because he thought Abe was being ...."honest" but as a sort of irony.
Now, why don't we all put our heads together and find a politician who doesn't do such things...... [tinfoil]
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Honestly, what I WANT to see is a president that demands every bill show it's Constitutional authority. No such authority listed, automatic veto.
That would cut a LOT of the BS out of it.
> working against that is the way the loons flock to third party candidates and the loons are so loud they become the public face<
Is it that the loons are really that vocal? Or does the media focus on them, to show the thirds in the worst possible light?
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Younger folks, a majority of single women and minorities aren't interested in liberty.
They want wealth and property "spread around" "fairly".
They want government to fill the void left by the lack of nuclear and extended family support structure.
Welcome to the postmodern paradise, it has only just begun.
Boy are you right. Just to paint a picture of where we are at in that "Government filling the void"...
For the Motherland,
For the Fatherland,
For the Homeland.
Family-like allusions towards the State, the great provider and caretaker. Statist socialism, there we were, here we are, dissolving of the "individual" full speed ahead.
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He has posted it in a public forum, well if he was my boss.
Good luck. There are millions of lawyers waiting to take a case, of they had one they could win.
Wow. Just wow. Here I thought APS members were above something like that, even after a disappointing election.
Were I to find out a person got fired for the sole reason of their political beliefs by a member here, I'd feel obligated to let the court of public opinion do the judging.
"Hello, Channel 123 News? There's this F@^*stain who canned an employee simply because they were a *gulp* Democrat."
See how many lawyers want to defend your tainted goods after that... ;/
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I think that everyone is mesmerized by the election and missing the main point, there is more than one nation in these united States and it needs to be dissolved.
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I think that everyone is mesmerized by the election and missing the main point, there is more than one nation in these united States and it needs to be dissolved.
Good luck with that, it worked out so well the last time.
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Looks like some folks don't believe business owners ought to be able to hire & fire according to their own un-PC desires...to the point they would interpose themselves, make someone else's business their own business, and seek to monkey wrench the business owner.
Sweet.
Given that if I express views counter to the prevailing corporate PC orthodoxy at my company I can be fired, I expect such monkey-wrenchers to put in quite a few calls starting yesterday to try and stir up some heat.
Or not.
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+1, roo_ster. Free association is a two way street.
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Judging from the photos on my Facebook page--which I never go to and just "deactivated"--I thought young people were about orthodonture. What I see is kids who wanna have fun and believe life is having a perfect smile and "no worries." What they believe at 20 they will find wanting at 40. The strong will dominate the pretty.
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Looks like some folks don't believe business owners ought to be able to hire & fire according to their own un-PC desires...to the point they would interpose themselves, make someone else's business their own business, and seek to monkey wrench the business owner.
Sweet.
Given that if I express views counter to the prevailing corporate PC orthodoxy at my company I can be fired, I expect such monkey-wrenchers to put in quite a few calls starting yesterday to try and stir up some heat.
Or not.
Try harder. Your right to hire and fire people may be sacrosanct to me, but so is my right to free speech.
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I think that everyone is mesmerized by the election and missing the main point, there is more than one nation in these united States and it needs to be dissolved.
Good luck with that, it worked out so well the last time.
Balog,
Thank the Gods you weren't around on April 19, 1775 telling the militias that fighting the Crown was a losing proposition for the first round of secession.
Longeyes,
Good for you for deactivating FB and now cancel your satellite or cable and you will be good to go.
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Try harder. Your right to hire and fire people may be sacrosanct to me, but so is my right to free speech.
Show me where I wrote it was not?
My point is one of interfering with a man's business and the way he runs it. More specifically, selective interference in trying to rustle up civil and/or criminal action against the business owner and the hypocrisy for doing do on the basis of some political views but not others.
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All interference is selective.
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His political beliefs and policies curiously changed in sync with each electorate he faced - what're the odds that he developed new views on healthcare and abortion at precisely the same moment he faced primary election by people who would've taken issue with his old beliefs?
A common beef against Romney, and I don't take issue with it. But I'm curious what it has to do with this discussion.
I'm with DeSelby on this one. Romney might be a good honest guy and a good business manager and all but he's a political chameleon. He has a much longer track record than Obama in government, but his track record doesn't differentiate him at all from obama.
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Balog,
Thank the Gods you weren't around on April 19, 1775 telling the militias that fighting the Crown was a losing proposition for the first round of secession.
Longeyes,
Good for you for deactivating FB and now cancel your satellite or cable and you will be good to go.
That's cute. Like I said, good luck fighting that Civil War over again. I'm sure this time will be different.
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Rooster,
Look up the definition of "discrimination" - especially as it applies to the workplace.
We've already got laws on the federal books against employment discrimination for:
1. Race
2. Sex
3. Pregnancy
4. Religion
5. National origin
6. Disability (physical or mental, including HIV status)
7. Age (for workers over 40)
8. Military service or affiliation
9. Bankruptcy or bad debts
10. Genetic information
11. Citizenship status (for citizens, permanent residents, temporary residents, refugees, and asylees)
They came about as a common-sense approach, and more specifically as a result of employer abuses.
I'd guarantee money that many were only legislated when the abuses were made public, because the employers sure weren't going to effect changes themselves without goading.
Hiring and firing based on political affiliation, especially when our very democracy is founded on folks having a choice in electing their government, reeks of something unpleasant.
You fire somebody who's an otherwise excellent employee for simply voting the opposite ballot than you, then you are in fact discriminating. You are enjoying a loophole, nothing else.
That's lower than whale poop in my book. As much as I dislike the liberal mindset, I'd never, ever fire an employee because they voted Republican, Democrat, Wookie, whatever.
The very thought that people here or elsewhere would seriously consider doing so makes me want to start a grass-roots movement to seek out and expose them, and set the ball in motion to add political affiliation to the above list, not unlike other countries.
Doesn't say much for the quality of Armed Polite Society, which is open to all walks of life, either...
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I will be the first man to disagree with both of you.
I think discrimination - including on disgusting basis, like race, gender, religion - should be fully legal, that these laws should be abolished, and the people enforcing them left jobless. I am a radical libertarian. This is what I do.
That said, I think discrimination is disgusting, and that it is a legitimate form of activity to speak out publicly against businesses who engage in it, to organize boycotts and peaceful protests of their activity, or to send dueling challenges to their owners.
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Let's presume that I still ran a business.
Let us also presume that I have five employees.
Let us then inject a change in government policy that hurts my business to the point where I have to lay off two of my guys.
Naturally, I will prefer to lay off the less productive workers, but let's also presume that I've been pretty astute in my hiring and that all five of these guys are really good -- all worthy of retention -- and the difference is too small to measure.
Okay, now it comes down to figuring out whom I shall keep.
Do I keep the guy who attends my church? Do I keep the guy who's younger because he could be with the company longer? Do I keep the guy who's older because he is less likely to quit later for a better offer? Do I keep the guy who thinks more like I do politically?
I will probably sit down with all of them and let them make their case. "Tough times ahead; are you willing to ride this bronc with us, carry the extra workload, put in extra thankless hours?"
Politics is likely right at the bottom of the pile when it comes to figuring out who can best help me survive the drought.
That said, all other things being equal, that could conceivably be the final difference, but only after everything else has been considered, weighed, and examined.
If you're an ass, you already don't work for me. If you're dishonest, you already don't work for me. If you're a slacker, you already don't work for me.
Weighing everything, the last straw to go on the balance is politics. And if it comes down to that, I've already failed somewhere else in my evaluation.
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Good luck with that, it worked out so well the last time.
We could have let the South go. I'm not saying we should have, but we could have.
There is no future for the USA as a unified nation with the current trends in place. Maybe you have a plan for disrupting those trends?
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We could have let the South go. I'm not saying we should have, but we could have.
There is no future for the USA as a unified nation with the current trends in place. Maybe you have a plan for disrupting those trends?
Do you have a plan? And "Just secede" is not a plan, any more than "My budget is off, so I'll make more money" is a plan.
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Balog,
Thank the Gods you weren't around on April 19, 1775 telling the militias that fighting the Crown was a losing proposition for the first round of secession.
Longeyes,
Good for you for deactivating FB and now cancel your satellite or cable and you will be good to go.
I have cable but, frankly, watch it for anything except a few great multi-part shows. I get my news and information elsewhere. I never really used FB. If I want to "broadcast" I'll do it here.
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Do you have a plan? And "Just secede" is not a plan, any more than "My budget is off, so I'll make more money" is a plan.
Actually, secession IS a plan. I have never said it would be easy or was inevitable, just that it's the only truly pragmatic plan. No one said "just secede." Do you want me to lay out a complete "investment" program for you too? :) Okay, here's a free one: the Permanent Portfolio.
But if you think we are going to do anything but collapse with the current policies and the current trends, I believe you are fooling yourself.
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Actually, secession IS a plan. I have never said it would be easy or was inevitable, just that it's the only truly pragmatic plan. No one said "just secede." Do you want me to lay out a complete "investment" program for you too? :) Okay, here's a free one: the Permanent Portfolio.
But if you think we are going to do anything but collapse with the current policies and the current trends, I believe you are fooling yourself.
How are you going to make that secession happen? How are you going to respond to the armed response from the feds?
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The very thought that people here or elsewhere would seriously consider doing so makes me want to start a grass-roots movement to seek out and expose them, and set the ball in motion to add political affiliation to the above list, not unlike other countries.
You're going to fit in well with the New Obama Order.....
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???
Compared to what, working in a Henry Clay Frick style environment, busting your ass for a wage while knowing you'll be fired by the boss for exercising your right as an American to vote on either ticket?
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How are you going to make that secession happen? How are you going to respond to the armed response from the feds?
With a little help from my friends...?
Hey, I don't know. No one does.
I believe States have a right to withdraw from the Union. You telling me it is not a voluntary union? Of course The Feds think otherwise. No surprise there. Contracts can be dissolved. The States did not sign on for complete suppression and subordination. Neither did the American people.
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How are you going to make that secession happen? How are you going to respond to the armed response from the feds?
"Secession" could mean more State or even regional autonomy, special tax exemptions, any manner of things. This is the kind of thing that is dynamic and worked out according to the context existing at the time.
My real point is that one reaches a point where you decide not to play, you don't try to keep making the game honest when you know the rules have irrevocably changed.
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???
Compared to what, working in a Henry Clay Frick style environment, busting your ass for a wage while knowing you'll be fired by the boss for exercising your right as an American to vote on either ticket?
Compared to crying to Mommy Media and Daddy Barak to go after the mean ol' capitalist who hurt your widdle feewings when he found out you were undercutting his business.....I'd fire you too if I found you stabbing me and my family's income in the back....
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Secession isn't going to happen....the next civil war we have will start out like Sherwood Forest and end up looking like Belfast...
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Secession is the natural order of things, it is the means by which all nation states evolve. Thirteen nation states met with the UK in 1783 in Paris, not the US. The UK has had more colonies and states calve off from it than left the USSR in two years in 1989-91. History, East and West, is rife with examples but the average American buys into the myth of US exceptionalism and that this mess will go on forever.
These states either carve out a partition or take over the entire governance of a nation like the Basques and Eire respectively.
In the US, this will start with nullification by braver state legislatures. If just one state leaves the union, there will be a stampede.
The US is done as a federal entity, it is now only a matter of time before it breaks apart and who knows what that will look like, the entire US intelliegnce community was caught with their pants down in 1990 as the USSR fell apart; they had no clue. These are Black Swan events.
It can be violent like Yugoslavia or peaceful like the Czeck-Slovak divorce or a slow death like the Irish in Northern Ireland or a bitter civil war after liberation like Eire from 1920-22 or a thousand other permutations in between. For the US, it is not a matter of if but when. The US is too big to succeed and the dual suicidal impulses of imperial military over-reach and fiscal stupidity on a gargantuan scale have sealed the fate.
If the Feds can't provision the FSA with loot taken from drained producers, what will be the glue to hold the Fed together?
Some possibilities: http://zerogov.com/?p=2689 (http://zerogov.com/?p=2689)
I gave a speech on secession at PorcFest 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28aiatbmuM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O28aiatbmuM)
You can dismiss it but secession is the natural order of history. Those who study history are doomed to watch it repeated.
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Well, I can't argue with vague generalities, abuse of terminology, or opinions presented as facts so I think I'll just reiterate "Good luck with that."
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Well, I can't argue with vague generalities, abuse of terminology, or opinions presented as facts so I think I'll just reiterate "Good luck with that."
Who could top such a riposte. Touche'.
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Who could top such a riposte. Touche'.
Thankfully my life consists of a whole stable full of better things to do than argue fruitlessly with people like you on the internet. Also thankfully, I stopped caring what random crazy folks on the internet think of me. Have fun planning the revolution.
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Thankfully my life consists of a whole stable full of better things to do than argue fruitlessly with people like you on the internet. Also thankfully, I stopped caring what random crazy folks on the internet think of me. Have fun planning the revolution.
I love* you man!
*platonically speaking.
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If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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;/
So what are you doing to foment revolution Azred? Surely the Founders wouldn't approve of someone quoting their fiery rhetoric who's main contribution to hte cause of liberty is stockpiling for themselves and whining on the internet, so what are you actively doing to bring down the fed.gov you hate so much?
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I understand he's laying in a cache of Mosin Nagants... :rofl:
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I understand he's laying in a cache of Mosin Nagants...
*yawn* Who hasn't?
:laugh:
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So do you own your own company?
Yes, I consult. And my job duties include deciding who comes on to my location (person (s) ,vendors etc..). What I say goes. If I dont like who it is, for whatever reason, they cost too much, they are late, they have a bad attitude, they get ran off. Period. Ill just add another to the list.
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Yes, I consult. And my job duties include deciding who comes on to my location (person (s) ,vendors etc..). What I say goes. If I dont like who it is, for whatever reason, they cost too much, they are late, they have a bad attitude, they get ran off. Period. Ill just add another to the list.
And you wonder why Romney lost - more than a few voters don't want a boss like this running the country, much less being responsible for their pay checks.
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...the myth of US exceptionalism...
Thank you, Barack.
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;/
So what are you doing to foment revolution Azred? Surely the Founders wouldn't approve of someone quoting their fiery rhetoric who's main contribution to hte cause of liberty is stockpiling for themselves and whining on the internet, so what are you actively doing to bring down the fed.gov you hate so much?
Building a network of like-minded folks in real-space, not on the innerwebz, to build and participate in alternate economy. To be able to feed one another, provide tools and equipment and services to one another, when the inflation of the dollar makes that impossible in the conventional market. To starve the machine of State by depriving it of its "share" of transactions.
I understand he's laying in a cache of Mosin Nagants... :rofl:
Nope, only own 1. But I do have half a dozen .22 rifles that I purchased deliberately to train about a thousand participants at Appleseeds. Each has the scars on the muzzle that every idgit novice gun handler puts into it from grinding the crown against the ground while attempting to get up from the prone position, and some few of those novice gun handlers have been allowed to carve their names into the stock after proving themselves Riflemen.
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And you wonder why Romney lost - more than a few voters don't want a boss like this running the country, much less being responsible for their pay checks.
So....instead, you'd want a boss who will penalize and grind down all who oppose his viewpoints with regulation and mob rule until you surrender your paycheck to friends of the boss who don't even work there?.....
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Building a network of like-minded folks in real-space, not on the innerwebz, to build and participate in alternate economy. To be able to feed one another, provide tools and equipment and services to one another, when the inflation of the dollar makes that impossible in the conventional market. To starve the machine of State by depriving it of its "share" of transactions.
Commendable goal. Not really related to the masturbatory Civil War II fantasies I was addressing earlier.
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I'm not going to give money to folks who vote against my interest and who want to have a socialist nation. Period. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore my posts.
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I'm not going to give money to folks who vote against my interest and who want to have a socialist nation. Period. If you don't like it, feel free to ignore my posts.
I'm sorry but you didn't give them money, they performed a service and you compensated them for their time and skills.
If you are that self-absorbed perhaps you need to find a different forum to preach on.
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Well, I can't argue with vague generalities, abuse of terminology, or opinions presented as facts so I think I'll just reiterate "Good luck with that."
Ah, someone else to share the abuse finally. :)
Secession is no anomaly.
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This conversation reminds me of this http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2012/11/the-end-of-liberty-in-america-only.html
Longeyes: it's really easy to talk about starting a war on the internet.
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Longeyes: it's really easy to talk about starting a war on the internet.
Sort of like talking about all of the really hot women you've bedded, when nobody's ever seen you or the women. ;)
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Aren't there any states that want liberty minded folks?
Come to _________ and earn your own keep! We abhor taxes and protect property and liberty here in the great state of ________. Forge your own destiny among like minded Americans who believe the government that governs best governs least.
If a state put out the word it wanted true classical liberals would they come? Would the state prosper?
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I'm sorry but you didn't give them money, they performed a service and you compensated them for their time and skills.
If you are that self-absorbed perhaps you need to find a different forum to preach on.
And I get to pick who performs that service. Just like I got rid of my yard service today. Are you the forum police? Are you telling me that I need to leave this forum? Look. If you don't like what I do or say, please exercise your right to ignore me and stay away from me. With my personal life and professional life I have choices to make. Personally I choose to spend my money with folks who are like minded. I'm just extending that to my professional life.
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Aren't there any states that want liberty minded folks?
Come to _________ and earn your own keep! We abhor taxes and protect property and liberty here in the great state of ________. Forge your own destiny among like minded Americans who believe the government that governs best governs least.
If a state put out the word it wanted true classical liberals would they come? Would the state prosper?
Government sponsored FSP? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
Speaking of the FSP, NH went hard hard blue this election.
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Longeyes: it's really easy to talk about starting a war on the internet.
I read his posts and I have yet to see him or I press for war or revolution. It is simply an historical observation that nations come and nations go by various means. Am I to suppose that American exceptionalism will outlast even the Roman run of 2500 years much like the aspirations of the extant Third Reich? We can dismiss historical certainty but you will be ignored.
As I mentioned, non-violent national divorces do occur. With the break-up of the US, one could move to the Mormon theocracy of Utah or the individualist hinterlands of Idaho or Montana or the neo-USSR in the America NE or the envirus utopia of Pacific Confederation. Who knows, all speculation but I think the map of the US in ten years will be quite a bit different than it is now.
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Aren't there any states that want liberty minded folks?
Come to _________ and earn your own keep! We abhor taxes and protect property and liberty here in the great state of ________. Forge your own destiny among like minded Americans who believe the government that governs best governs least.
If a state put out the word it wanted true classical liberals would they come? Would the state prosper?
http://freestateproject.org/
Attempted in NH, and another attempt in WY also if memory serves.
To my knowledge, the NH group is centered around the town of Keene. And they mostly go around taunting cops and messing around in courts.
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And you wonder why Romney lost - more than a few voters don't want a boss like this running the country, much less being responsible for their pay checks.
Yeah, probably. The Obama campaign was apparently so successful in painting Romney that way, that people came out in droves to oppose him. (Or at least, the Obama campaign caricature of him.)
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Government sponsored FSP? Isn't that kind of an oxymoron?
Speaking of the FSP, NH went hard hard blue this election.
I wouldnt say its an oxymoron if you had a very minimalist type of .gov sponsering a FSP type thing
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Words have specific meanings, including secession. You don't get to just redefine it as you see fit.
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Try harder. Your right to hire and fire people may be sacrosanct to me, but so is my right to free speech.
your employment status does not inhibit speech actions have consequences
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Rooster,
Look up the definition of "discrimination" - especially as it applies to the workplace.
We've already got laws on the federal books against employment discrimination for:
1. Race
2. Sex
3. Pregnancy
4. Religion
5. National origin
6. Disability (physical or mental, including HIV status)
7. Age (for workers over 40)
8. Military service or affiliation
9. Bankruptcy or bad debts
10. Genetic information
11. Citizenship status (for citizens, permanent residents, temporary residents, refugees, and asylees)
They came about as a common-sense approach, and more specifically as a result of employer abuses.
I'd guarantee money that many were only legislated when the abuses were made public, because the employers sure weren't going to effect changes themselves without goading.
Hiring and firing based on political affiliation, especially when our very democracy is founded on folks having a choice in electing their government, reeks of something unpleasant.
You fire somebody who's an otherwise excellent employee for simply voting the opposite ballot than you, then you are in fact discriminating. You are enjoying a loophole, nothing else.
That's lower than whale poop in my book. As much as I dislike the liberal mindset, I'd never, ever fire an employee because they voted Republican, Democrat, Wookie, whatever.
The very thought that people here or elsewhere would seriously consider doing so makes me want to start a grass-roots movement to seek out and expose them, and set the ball in motion to add political affiliation to the above list, not unlike other countries.
Doesn't say much for the quality of Armed Polite Society, which is open to all walks of life, either...
In other words, you're not so big on freedom of association and property rights? And agree with fed.gov when it uses violence to abridge them? You have lots of company, these days. It does seem the fashionable position to stake out.
For my part, I favor the old-school virtues and liberties of mercantile republicanism over the new-fangled values of statist identity polics. I generally don't support having agents of the gov't shoot folks in the face for making decisions about their property and associations I may find distasteful (or disagree with from a practical standpoint).
I also value minding my own business and not sticking my nose into others' business.
Last, discrimination gets a bad rap. We all do it every day, many times a day. Saying one doesn't discriminate is akin to saying one doesn't think, as discrimination is at the root of conscious thought.
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And you wonder why Romney lost - more than a few voters don't want a boss like this running the country, much less being responsible for their pay checks.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamas-female-debate-coach-complained-about-hostile-workplace-white-house_654745.html
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Panarin may have only been off by a few years...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsg.wsj.net%2Fpublic%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FP1-AO116_RUSPRO_NS_20081228191715.gif&hash=fe77670e955792c8af25dcb8f712994390344746)
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Panarin may have only been off by a few years...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsg.wsj.net%2Fpublic%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FP1-AO116_RUSPRO_NS_20081228191715.gif&hash=fe77670e955792c8af25dcb8f712994390344746)
To heck with that....Texas will ANNEX Mexico....should cut down on illegal immigration....
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Panarin may have only been off by a few years...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsg.wsj.net%2Fpublic%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FP1-AO116_RUSPRO_NS_20081228191715.gif&hash=fe77670e955792c8af25dcb8f712994390344746)
That's the stoopidest map I've ever seen.
There's no friggin' way that Idaho would throw in with WA/OR/CA.
Nor would Montana have anything in common with Ohio.
And TX surrendering to MX? :rofl:
AZ/NM/parts of CA become Aztlan.
WA/OR/parts of CA/NV become a western nation.
ID/MT/WY/UT/CO/ND/SD become their own nation.
OH/IL/MI are lacky Unionist stooge-states to the New England corridor, and will go wherever PA goes. Indiana goes with them for lack of options.
TN/KY ain't gonna be ruled by a bunch of Yankee NYers if given a choice to go Southern.
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The guy had the concept right if he didn't understand the regional politics.
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In other words, you're not so big on freedom of association and property rights? And agree with fed.gov when it uses violence to abridge them? You have lots of company, these days. It does seem the fashionable position to stake out.
For my part, I favor the old-school virtues and liberties of mercantile republicanism over the new-fangled values of statist identity polics. I generally don't support having agents of the gov't shoot folks in the face for making decisions about their property and associations I may find distasteful (or disagree with from a practical standpoint).
I also value minding my own business and not sticking my nose into others' business.
Last, discrimination gets a bad rap. We all do it every day, many times a day. Saying one doesn't discriminate is akin to saying one doesn't think, as discrimination is at the root of conscious thought.
I've been beating this drum for a while. As Balog writes, words have meaning. Discrimination has been broadly reinterpreted, supplanting the appropriate term, bigotry. Continued application of prejudice in the face of contrary evidence is the problem, not assumptions based on observation and evidence which can be overridden when warranted.
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So am I allowed to pick where I work based on a companies politics?
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SC with the northeast and EU?
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
SOME of the chunks are kinds close, but the boarders are way off.
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So am I allowed to pick where I work based on a companies politics?
I do.
I just left an employer for it. I felt that my prior employer (Northcentral University, a for-profit online university owned by Quicken Loan Group) was a sham of a university and catered to the worst possible batch of student-candidates, while milking the only currently functioning full-throttle-government-teat-spigot left, the Stafford Loan system.
They no longer enjoy my skillset, and I told them they are not eligible to employ my services in the future upon my exit interview. When asked why, I told them exactly why.
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The guy had the concept right if he didn't understand the regional politics.
No, he didn't get the concept, either. He wrote up a map that devides the US under foreign powers.
He failed to understand that it will be a cold day in hell before most of that map acknowledges such powers.
The northeast might fall to european or canadian intrests. And the west coast might be held by China or Russia under miltary rule, but the rest is just not feasible.
The midwest will go it's own way, as will Texas and most of the South.
They have the will and the means to do so. Or at least they have enough of an ornery streak to die trying.
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The Russian map is off not only in the divisions but the Russian automatically assumes foreign influences would immediately evidence themselves yet we see no such thing in the former USSR -stan brothers that calved off nor in the three Baltic states in the west. Same applies to the independent former eastern bloc countries.
There is a 2.5 million square kilometer massif called Zomia in SE Asia that is essentially a "state-repellent" zone. If only we could import that.
The professor simply did not have the cultural IQ to know where the fault lines and political fissures are in the US.
AZR is right, as a former ID resident, they would never truck with federating with the Ecotopians, there is Marxism in the Pacific Ocean and somewhat explains the aberrant behavior.
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Yeah, that map looked to be drawn more for an equal geometry than for fact. His concepts are worthwhile discussion, but his grasp of our interstate (and intrastate) politics are quite a bit askew (or again, he drew the map partially based on area or something). Idaho, and Utah for that matter, would never split off with CA. The Southwest chunk of NV might, but then you'd also have Eastern OR and Eastern WA looking to secede to whatever ID, MT, WY, etc. would become.
Whatever that Redoubt state guy's name is, I don't agree with a lot of his political philosophy, but he understands the political and cultural aspects West of the Rockies better than the Russian does, at least from a map drawing point of view.
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Also, I doubt such a split would fallout entirely on current state lines.
Many states have cities with a large population spread that would probably split from the rest of the state, or be discarded by it.
States have seperated before. My own was once much larger then it is now.
;)
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This conversation reminds me of this http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2012/11/the-end-of-liberty-in-america-only.html
Longeyes: it's really easy to talk about starting a war on the internet.
I was talking about the possibility--and viability--of secession. Read carefully. I have never advocated war or revolution. I have talked about activism or a sober decision to separate. If war arose from that it would be precipitated by the other side.
I think you have to come to terms with the fact that there is already a war going on. In fact it started at least 50 years ago. And it is against people like us.
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Panarin may have only been off by a few years...
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsg.wsj.net%2Fpublic%2Fresources%2Fimages%2FP1-AO116_RUSPRO_NS_20081228191715.gif&hash=fe77670e955792c8af25dcb8f712994390344746)
Somebody suggested this as a serious possibility?
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there is Marxism in the Pacific Ocean and somewhat explains the aberrant behavior.
:lol:
It's a fracking shame, too... assuming people didn't suck up there, the Olympic Peninsula would be my ideal home. Or one of the islands in the Sound. Vashon, Orcas... something with some small town charm to it.
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Words have specific meanings, including secession. You don't get to just redefine it as you see fit.
Indeed. Nor do you. I don't think it is a mystery what we are talking about. A formal, willed separation.
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:lol:
It's a fracking shame, too... assuming people didn't suck up there, the Olympic Peninsula would be my ideal home. Or one of the islands in the Sound. Vashon, Orcas... something with some small town charm to it.
Wouldn't Orcas be a bit too New Agey for you? :)
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And I get to pick who performs that service. Just like I got rid of my yard service today. Are you the forum police? Are you telling me that I need to leave this forum? Look. If you don't like what I do or say, please exercise your right to ignore me and stay away from me. With my personal life and professional life I have choices to make. Personally I choose to spend my money with folks who are like minded. I'm just extending that to my professional life.
I take it you are not used having your points of view criticized.
I was really rubbed very hard when you equated wages as a gift to the people you employee. That is very similar to the philosophies that many dictators have. You post something on a public forum that may not agree with everyone, you better be open to some sort of criticism.
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I take it you are not used having your points of view criticized.
I was really rubbed very hard when you equated wages as a gift to the people you employee. That is very similar to the philosophies that many dictators have. You post something on a public forum that may not agree with everyone, you better be open to some sort of criticism.
Where did I equate wages paid as a gift.
Critize all you want. I choose to draw a line in the sand.
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Where did I equate wages paid as a gift.
Critize all you want. I choose to draw a line in the sand.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=36886.msg743168#msg743168
To give equates a gift. I read it as your gave (gift) wages to people.
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I could have worded it better. And yes, you took it wrong. I will re word it here. I am not going to employ folks who vote against my interest and who want to have a socialist nation. Period.
I get to do that. I work in an area where what I say either happens or your gone. Period. Thats the way it has been in my career field for decades. Like it or not. I will weed out folks around me, personally and professionally that prefer and advocate for a left leaning nation.
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I was really rubbed very hard when you equated wages as a gift to the people you employee. That is very similar to the philosophies that many dictators have.
Actually, he was just using the word in the way that most people use it, when they say things like, "I won't give my money to Hollywood," or "I won't give my money to Such-and-such Corporation that doesn't support [political position]." The money is being earned in all three of those cases, but people have a tendency to use inexact wording.
And if we could stay on the realism train for a few more stops, I might point out that there is nothing particularly extreme or unpleasant about avoiding entanglements with people that oppose one's own goals, interests, or well-being. Or with people that make moral choices one finds extremely offensive. What the Battle Monkey has proposed is nothing more than a boycott.
That being said, is adding these Democrats to the ranks of the unemployed a good option? Would it be better for the Battle Monkey to have a meeting with his employees, where he explains how government policies endanger their business? ???
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That being said, is adding these Democrats to the ranks of the unemployed a good option? Would it be better for the Battle Monkey to have a meeting with his employees, where he explains how government policies endanger their business?
Traveled that road. It's no use.
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Traveled that road. It's no use.
Shocker!
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I'm thinking that in ten years, the map of the US will look more like a wargame board. Things like borders and suchlike won't firm up until further long than 10 years.
And if you want to know how "the revolution" will look, if it comes to open insurrection, watch the last few minutes of Reservoir Dogs. That's our next civil war, in microcosm
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All of this is one of the reasons I moved to Alabama. I wanted to live in a conservative state, after 50+ years of living in a semi-socialist one. It was nice to see just a handful of Obama bumper stickers, and no Obama lawn signs. Not one. I didn't have to listen to anyone sing his praises.
When I hired employees, I hired those I knew to be at least moderately conservative. No flaming liberals. It's not petty and it's not discriminatory. If I have to be around someone, I want the interactions to be pleasant, not adversarial.
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I was talking about the possibility--and viability--of secession. Read carefully. I have never advocated war or revolution. I have talked about activism or a sober decision to separate. If war arose from that it would be precipitated by the other side.
I think you have to come to terms with the fact that there is already a war going on. In fact it started at least 50 years ago. And it is against people like us.
I think you need to stop trying to use semantic tricks to avoid saying what you mean. And there are few things I hate more than people calling things that are not wars, a war.
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Indeed. Nor do you. I don't think it is a mystery what we are talking about. A formal, willed separation.
An attempt at secession would lead to war as you well know, and saying "Well the other guys started it!" makes no difference.
And war shouldn't be used as a metaphor for anything you don't like being done anymore than rape should. It cheapens the real thing when folks use it that way.
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
We're not there.
Yet.
Nor do I think as a country there are enough "hardy souls" to carry out a war of secesion. at present it seems that over half the population likes things they way they are going and of the slightly less than half that don't only a tiny fraction would be willing to actually do something about it, besides America's got new next top survivor idol will be on and after that the big game comes on so ya know maybe next time OK.
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And if you want to know how "the revolution" will look, if it comes to open insurrection, watch the last few minutes of Reservoir Dogs. That's our next civil war, in microcosm
.....or Bosnia, in macrocosm.....with drones.....
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We're not there.
Yet.
Nor do I think as a country there are enough "hardy souls" to carry out a war of secesion. at present it seems that over half the population likes things they way they are going and of the slightly less than half that don't only a tiny fraction would be willing to actually do something about it, besides America's got new next top survivor idol will be on and after that the big game comes on so ya know maybe next time OK.
This. The soft, weak Americans of today have almost nothing in common with the folks who risked their lives to flee to a country for economic opportunity and religous freedom.
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I had a talk with a neighbor last night while we both took our trash carts to the street. We got on to the subject of politics, and eventually to the discussion of what to do, including some form of revolution or secession.
This guy is a prominent businessman, a former president of the local chamber of commerce, and very influential in politics. When someone like that starts talking about revolution or secession, you know things have gone too far.
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What's ironic is that were an employer to terminate a forum member here for owning guns and being a 2A supporter, they'd be all butt-hurt and screaming foul - even though there's no official protection against that sort of discrimination.
However, now we have folks saying they'd terminate employees for exercising their constitutional right to vote, regardless of ticket, and that's ok?
As for canning somebody who's Democrat - I bumped into some nice gun-owning pro-2A folks who were laid off by Romney's Bain goons. Can you guess why they voted the way they did?
Hint - it wasn't because they wanted to create a socialist utopia... [tinfoil]
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However, now we have folks saying they'd terminate employees for exercising their constitutional right to vote, regardless of ticket, and that's ok?
When you vote in league with the FSA, you get what you voted for, especially the parts you didn't consider.
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The freedom of association pretty much went out the window with wide scale incorporation of everything and everyone.
Eventually even churches will have to fall in line with the state. These creatures of the state will only be allowed to preach government approved messages.
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What's ironic is that were an employer to terminate a forum member here for owning guns and being a 2A supporter, they'd be all butt-hurt and screaming foul - even though there's no official protection against that sort of discrimination.
However, now we have folks saying they'd terminate employees for exercising their constitutional right to vote, regardless of ticket, and that's ok?
As for canning somebody who's Democrat - I bumped into some nice gun-owning pro-2A folks who were laid off by Romney's Bain goons. Can you guess why they voted the way they did?
Hint - it wasn't because they wanted to create a socialist utopia... [tinfoil]
I already work at a company where an airing of my political views might get me fired. Where was the great G98 and his call to stir up civil and criminal legal shenanigans when corporations went PC? If lefties finally get similar treatment, turn about is fair play.
OTOH, do I have the right to refuse my labor as a potential employee to a company whose politics I disagree with? If yes, why doesn't an employer have a similar right to deny employment to an employee whose politics he disagrees with?
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An attempt at secession would lead to war as you well know, and saying "Well the other guys started it!" makes no difference.
And war shouldn't be used as a metaphor for anything you don't like being done anymore than rape should. It cheapens the real thing when folks use it that way.
No metaphors intended. The war is on now and has been for years. The real thing. It's just unfolding step by step by step.
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I already work at a company where an airing of my political views might get me fired. Where was the great G98 and his call to stir up civil and criminal legal shenanigans when corporations went PC? If lefties finally get similar treatment, turn about is fair play.
OTOH, do I have the right to refuse my labor as a potential employee to a company whose politics I disagree with? If yes, why doesn't an employer have a similar right to deny employment to an employee whose politics he disagrees with?
Does your political views include discrimination on things such as gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or religion?
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No metaphors intended. The war is on now and has been for years. The real thing. It's just unfolding step by step by step.
You're obviously unfamiliar with actual war then.
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You're obviously unfamiliar with actual war then.
War is merely policy continued through other means.
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You're obviously unfamiliar with actual war then.
No, please enlighten me about what an "actual war" is. You think what is going on in Detroit or, for that matter, the Hollywood Hills is not part of The War? I humbly recommend you deepen your imagination. I understand the literal implications, and I do not seek war, "real" or metaphorical, but the failure to realize that we are already in a war to the death means we are going to lose. And so far we are. The "answer" isn't necessarily to pick up a rifle but we do need to think like warriors if only to know when to pull back and wait and prepare. My life has been about creating, not warmaking; right now I expect to do even more of the former.
Listen, Balog, I avoid taking on APS folks personally. Always have. I just offer my thoughts here. Your bitch is not with me, never was, never will be. But sometimes it sounds as if it is.
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No, please enlighten me about what an "actual war" is. You think what is going on in Detroit or, for that matter, the Hollywood Hills is not part of The War? I humbly recommend you deepen your imagination. I understand the literal implications, and I do not seek war, "real" or metaphorical, but the failure to realize that we are already in a war to the death means we are going to lose. And so far we are. The "answer" isn't necessarily to pick up a rifle but we do need to think like warriors if only to know when to pull back and wait and prepare. My life has been about creating, not warmaking; right now I expect to do even more of the former.
Listen, Balog, I avoid taking on APS folks personally. Always have. I just offer my thoughts here. Your bitch is not with me, never was, never will be. But sometimes it sounds as if it is.
You're not stupid, so I'm fairly certain I don't actually need to enlighten you on the meaning of simple and obvious words. When guys in tanks are calling in air strikes on entrenched defensive positions in Detroit you can call it a war. The political process being followed and you not getting your way? That's not a war.
I disagree with some of your conclusions. My "bitch" ;/ is with the way you present them. And a whole lotta folks on this board are tired of it too.
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Not the majority of voters (those who voted for Obama). They thought it was a choice between a moderate center/leftist and a job-outsourcer that also takes away health care.
Not around here. Around here, two groups voted for Obama:
1. Blacks -- because he is black. That was their ONLY criterion.
2. Union members -- because he is a Democrat, and unions vote for Democrats. And THAT was their only criterion.
Neither group understood or cared one single iota about the economy or about what reelecting Obama is likely to mean for their children and grandchildren.
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That's cute. Like I said, good luck fighting that Civil War over again. I'm sure this time will be different.
It almost certainly would be different. Compare how many major military bases there are in the south and west (excluding California) compared to how many there are in the blue states.
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All of this is one of the reasons I moved to Alabama. I wanted to live in a conservative state, after 50+ years of living in a semi-socialist one. It was nice to see just a handful of Obama bumper stickers, and no Obama lawn signs. Not one. I didn't have to listen to anyone sing his praises.
As evidence (perhaps) of just how engaged the populace was with this election, I live in a blue state that voted heavily for Obama this time around. Yet during the run-up to the election, I was astonished that I didn't see ONE single lawn sign for Obama ... and very, very few for Romney. There were some for our representative in Congress and for U.S. senator, but not that many. The vast majority of the lawn signs were for the contested seats in the state legislature.
I think people just turned off this year -- and the fact that significantly fewer people (overall) voted this time than last time confirms it.
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You're not stupid, so I'm fairly certain I don't actually need to enlighten you on the meaning of simple and obvious words. When guys in tanks are calling in air strikes on entrenched defensive positions in Detroit you can call it a war. The political process being followed and you not getting your way? That's not a war.
I disagree with some of your conclusions. My "bitch" ;/ is with the way you present them. And a whole lotta folks on this board are tired of it too.
Intellectually you are way above your paygrade, my friend. I couldn't care less what you think of how I present my ideas. You are no judge. Maybe I am a bit tired of some of the people on this board too, have you ever thought of that? But I keep that to myself. Thanks for the vote of confidence about my intelligence, but anytime you really want to compare resumes I will be happy to oblige you. Meanwhile, go with God.
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You're not stupid, so I'm fairly certain I don't actually need to enlighten you on the meaning of simple and obvious words. When guys in tanks are calling in air strikes on entrenched defensive positions in Detroit you can call it a war. The political process being followed and you not getting your way? That's not a war.
I disagree with some of your conclusions. My "bitch" ;/ is with the way you present them. And a whole lotta folks on this board are tired of it too.
And be a good fellow and let me know when the war starts, okay?
Oh, one more thing: This is exactly why the conservative movement is in such trouble, asinine squabbling among people who should be on the same side. But you obviously want to score some points to prove something about yourself. Why don't you just state your views and leave it at that? If you don't like what I say just pass on and let it go. That's what I do with you.
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You're not stupid, so I'm fairly certain I don't actually need to enlighten you on the meaning of simple and obvious words. When guys in tanks are calling in air strikes on entrenched defensive positions in Detroit you can call it a war. The political process being followed and you not getting your way? That's not a war.
I disagree with some of your conclusions. My "bitch" ;/ is with the way you present them. And a whole lotta folks on this board are tired of it too.
I read this again. Don't ask me why but I did. Lost on you is the fact that we stopped being a really representative government quite a long time ago. The political process is a travesty. The war starts in your mind. It is what makes you fight and determines who you fight. Most Americans are not in control of that.
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I had a talk with a neighbor last night while we both took our trash carts to the street. We got on to the subject of politics, and eventually to the discussion of what to do, including some form of revolution or secession.
This guy is a prominent businessman, a former president of the local chamber of commerce, and very influential in politics. When someone like that starts talking about revolution or secession, you know things have gone too far.
I had a similar discussion with my doctor (60ish yr old) the day after the election. He talked of how he and his wife are afraid of the direction the country is heading, how he hasn't seen so many depressed patients since 911, and how it wouldn't be a bad thing for Texas to secede. My response was that I'm keeping my eye on Arizona, they've been pushing back at the Fed's for a while now - and the AZ mountains aren't a bad place to live.
If a state (or more than one) decided to disassociate itself from the Union, would a shooting war be an absolute? First, what would the Union gain by attacking the state? And would the non-violent types in the Union actually support such an attack?
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If a state (or more than one) decided to disassociate itself from the Union, would a shooting war be an absolute? First, what would the Union gain by attacking the state? And would the non-violent types in the Union actually support such an attack?
I don't think the military would support it, but you bet your ass the thousands of combined federal LEO's would. (Why do you think every agency has its own police force?) OTOH, the state controls the national guard and the reserves -- unless they are already tied up overseas.
I predict the next civil war will start in AZ, and it'll be the feds starting a [literal] battle with one of the border sheriffs; the sheriff will be better armed than they expect and the governor will send the state police for backup and it all goes to hell very quickly after that.
OTOH, Colorado's recent marahuana legalization could be the spark that sets it off.
A lot of the western states are getting fed up (pardon the pun)
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If a state (or more than one) decided to disassociate itself from the Union, would a shooting war be an absolute? First, what would the Union gain by attacking the state? And would the non-violent types in the Union actually support such an attack?
Have a few SF types (contractors?) or drones take out the leadership of the rebellious faction. Make an example of a few "pillars of the community" and most likely any rebellion would be over. The MSM would portray it as a handful of "angry white right-wing nutjob extremists domestic terrorists". Most of the country would never know the truth and then a new sports season would start and life would go on. Any further domestic terrorism would be dealt with as it deserves and hell, while they're at it, never let a crisis go to waste, darn good time for some sensible gun control legislation.
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If and when the D.C. boys start making examples of people, whatever warp and woof of the social fabric is left will be torn asunder. That means no one will be safe, not people in government, not people in the media, not people in academia, no one. If two guys in a car with a sniper rifle could shut down D.C. for two weeks you can only imagine what America might look like when the seething rage that lies not that far under the surface is unleashed. There are limits to stupidity and apathy, yes, even in football season...
That doesn't mean I don't think someone Up There will do something stupid to show who's boss. In fact, I think it's inevitable, sadly.
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It would be hard for the MSM to cover up if the elected State .gov were the ones to initiate the separation.
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It would be hard for the MSM to cover up if the elected State .gov were the ones to initiate the separation.
You don't have to cover up what you just don't report. "Today's top news, a bunch of dyed blond self-absorbed trust-fund sluts did something incredibly stupid and will be given special treatment by the courts that a common plebe would never receive."
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Have a few SF types (contractors?) or drones take out the leadership of the rebellious faction. Make an example of a few "pillars of the community" and most likely any rebellion would be over. The MSM would portray it as a handful of "angry white right-wing nutjob extremists domestic terrorists". Most of the country would never know the truth and then a new sports season would start and life would go on. Any further domestic terrorism would be dealt with as it deserves and hell, while they're at it, never let a crisis go to waste, darn good time for some sensible gun control legislation.
The problem is that once that happens the federal.gov runs at least even odds of galvanizing such a rebellion or having more states go ape *expletive deleted*it.
It's one thing when you are pushing states around with legislation or courts, it's a whole different ball game when you actually send bullets and bombs their way.
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One guarantee: the Federal response will be brutal and overreaching and the train of unintended consequences will move out of the station. And cops will do what they are told, they serve and protect...the government.
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One guarantee: the Federal response will be brutal and overreaching and the train of unintended consequences will move out of the station. And cops will do what they are told, they serve and protect...the government.
In cities, I would agree,
In some large fraction of smaller municipalities, depending on region, yeah, probably.
But depending on region, there is going to be a point between federal and local where the police are going to resist, or at least become MUCH less "effective" at performing their new "duties"
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I had a similar discussion with my doctor (60ish yr old) the day after the election. He talked of how he and his wife are afraid of the direction the country is heading,
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F0%2F0d%2FLiberal_Fascism_%2528cover%2529.jpg%2F220px-Liberal_Fascism_%2528cover%2529.jpg&hash=26263532d49f010e099d4a6f05d86a491517cda8)
(I'll be ordering a copy.)
how he hasn't seen so many depressed patients since 911
Economics. We're getting poorer. Folks realize it. It can't be hidden, can't be papered over.
, and how it wouldn't be a bad thing for Texas to secede. My response was that I'm keeping my eye on Arizona, they've been pushing back at the Fed's for a while now - and the AZ mountains aren't a bad place to live.
If a state (or more than one) decided to disassociate itself from the Union, would a shooting war be an absolute? First, what would the Union gain by attacking the state? And would the non-violent types in the Union actually support such an attack?
Secession means you all of a sudden have "foreign relations" .that being part of the United State buffered you from. Could Arizona handle Mexico? Could Texas? Arizona is landlocked. Not good.
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(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F0%2F0d%2FLiberal_Fascism_%2528cover%2529.jpg%2F220px-Liberal_Fascism_%2528cover%2529.jpg&hash=26263532d49f010e099d4a6f05d86a491517cda8)
(I'll be ordering a copy.)
Excellent book, you'll like it.
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Secession means you all of a sudden have "foreign relations" .that being part of the United State buffered you from. Could Arizona handle Mexico? Could Texas? Arizona is landlocked. Not good.
What makes you think Mexico would be a hostile neighbor? Maybe not a great neighbor, but who knows.
Texas would be just fine, it has a major seaport, oil and gas reserves, and its own electrical grid.
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Of course Arizona could just renegotiate water sales to So-Cal.
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Suggested reading: The Ashes series, by the late William Johnstone.
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Suggested reading: The Ashes series, by the late William Johnstone.
The first few books, anyway. After the first four or five the plots went off the rails.
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Secession means you all of a sudden have "foreign relations" .that being part of the United State buffered you from. Could Arizona handle Mexico? Could Texas? Arizona is landlocked. Not good.
Of course it would mean instituting a Foreign Relations Dept. ASAP, best done prior to separating.
I was considering that some of the political work could be done prior to the actual separation, such as negotiating with States and countries, but that would increase the chances of word getting out prematurely.
While it's possible that Mexico would try to expand, Texas does have some modern armament - and the will to use it. Some of the neighboring States might want to get involved on Texas' side too; to stay on Texas' good side, to thwart Mexico, etc.
As was mentioned, Texas has the infrastructure and reserves to survive on its own for a while, at least. Arizona doesn't have the resources Texas does, they might have a harder time of it.
I'm still not convinced that a shooting war would have to occur. What is so important about making someone stay in your organization (Union) if they don't want to belong that you'd kill hundreds, thousands or more?
edited for spelling
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Of course Arizona could just renegotiate water sales to So-Cal.
And Colorado could cut off most of Arizona's water.
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I think this goes here.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/10/rising-number-of-states-seeing-one-party-rule/
Since we're talking secession.
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One thing secessionists need to consider.....
Look at your current state gov't. Look at your current governor. Look at the mayors & city councils of your residence.
Do you really trust those guys to do any better than what's in Washington D.C. now?
I sure as hell don't trust the Texas gov't that much....
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Am I a huge fan of Haley and the good ol' boys club of Columbia? No, not a huge fan. But I'll take them any day over Barry and Reid.
Also, who's saying that secession means your state government because your "federal" government? IF, and it's a big if, there were to be any secession I'd be willing to bet there would be multiple states cleaving off to form a union more similar to that originally intended at the founding of this country. Which makes such a concern a moot point.
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One thing secessionists need to consider.....
Look at your current state gov't. Look at your current governor. Look at the mayors & city councils of your residence.
Do you really trust those guys to do any better than what's in Washington D.C. now?
I sure as hell don't trust the Texas gov't that much....
The upside is that we wouldn't be voting against New Yorkers and Californians to change our president.
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The upside is that we wouldn't be voting against New Yorkers and Californians to change our president.
Yeah....just Houstonians, Austinites, and San-exicans....
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Yeah....just Houstonians, Austinites, and San-exicans....
You forgot Dallas liberals.
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Yeah....just Houstonians, Austinites, and San-exicans....
You forgot Dallas liberals.
Those four groups wouldn't even be able to reach an agreement on "Nickel Beer Night at the Astrodome" if their lives depended on it. Total gridlock.
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Am I a huge fan of Haley and the good ol' boys club of Columbia? No, not a huge fan. But I'll take them any day over Barry and Reid.
Also, Columbia is within a few days hard march.
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Yeah....just Houstonians, Austinites, and San-exicans....
Touché.
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Secession is not the end point. The end point is the enlightened "anarchy" of self-reliance and responsible communities.
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Secession is not the end point. The end point is the enlightened "anarchy" of self-reliance and responsible communities.
Amen, the 21st century abolitionist movement.
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Well, that is exactly right: Let my people go.
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I wish to complain that is thread is titled "We are *expletive deleted*ed," when it should be titled "We are so humped."
For wasting such a perfect opportunity, I award the Battle Monkey one dose of Pax.
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I wish to complain that is thread is titled "We are *expletive deleted*ed," when it should be titled "We are so humped."
For wasting such a perfect opportunity, I award the Battle Monkey one dose of Pax.
I am confused. Do you wish him to suicide or kill the rest of us?
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lol... a reaver-version of BMoZ.
Arthur Frayne will kill us, rape us, and sew our skin into his clothing. And if we are very lucky, he will do it in that order.
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I am confused. Do you wish him to suicide or kill the rest of us?
It is meant as a punishment. Either outcome is bad for him, isn't it? And he won't be killing us.
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"It would seem that the only meaningful cultural/political activity at this point is that which would lead to secession from the tyrannical, lawless, decadent society that America has become. But secession from a nation with which the seceding “nation” is intimately intertwined in the economic, geographical, and every other sense is practically impossible. So where does this leave us?
Here’s a scenario I can visualize. Over time, certain states begin to assert, in relatively small and discrete ways, their independence from the federal government, for example, refusing to obey certain federal mandates, and the federal government, fiscally hamstrung by its reckless spending policies and gradually losing legitimacy, loses the authority and will to force those states to obey. As this process gradually progresses, people who want to be free from the United Socialist States of America move to the more independent states, and people who oppose such independence move to the obedient states. Ultimately, over a period of time that we cannot predict, the two nations would be sufficiently geographically separated that actual secession would become a possibility."
--Lawrence Auster