Just on NPR - Fewer speeding tickets being issued...

[Firethorn]

It was just on the local NPR station that the police have noticed people are slowing down, during the last 2 months 500 fewer speeding tickets were written(no note on percentages or total number of tickets, so I can't provide a percentage - whether it be 2% or 50%).

Of course, being the cynic I am, I wonder how some departments will react to having fewer speeding tickets to provide revenue will react...

Oh, and our local NPR station doesn't seem to be very liberal at all for the most part.  There is the occasional piece, but on the whole it seems mostly factual and unbiased.  I like that it doesn't seem to pander as much, no ads, and classical music.

[taurusowner]

There's always failure to signal.

[ilbob]

some areas of the country do not have ticket quotas, others do.

if people slow down and they are in an area with quotas, tickets will be issued for other things, or for speeding at slower speeds than they previously bothered with.

[wmenorr67]

Obstructing the flow of traffic.

[Firethorn]

if people slow down and they are in an area with quotas, tickets will be issued for other things, or for speeding at slower speeds than they previously bothered with.

While there's probably still lots of speeders, at least in my area going after a speeder going half as much over the limit will generally net you a third of the money.  In order to keep revenues up you'd have to write twice as many tickets.

Though the failure to signal might not be a bad idea.  I hate it when people don't signal.  

But I've heard a number of times that we're currently on track to use less fuel this year than last year.

Now the sheriffs are complaining about their fuel budgets - many are going to go bust before the end of the year.  Suggestions/methods are more bicycle cops, stopping more often to talk with locals.  More speed traps.  Filling up with regular rather than midgrade.

Personally, given what I've heard and seen - they normally leave the car on due to the sheer amount of electrical equipment to keep the batteries from being drained.  I  think that a hybrid might be a good idea for them.  The larger battery would allow the engine to be shut off while keeping the equipment powered, the car could be moved very quietly if necessary, and the engine tuned for more efficiency.  They'd actually put enough miles on the vehicle in a year to make it worth it.  Note:  I'd go for a 'weak' hybrid - costs are less, and while the gasoline savings are also less, the vehicle retains all the power needed in case of a chase.

[BryanP]

We've been hearing similar reports for Tennessee.  As for what they'll do about it, all i can say is that two weeks ago i was ticketed for failure to stop long enough before making a right turn on a red.  Never heard of that one before.

[Manedwolf]

Personally, given what I've heard and seen - they normally leave the car on due to the sheer amount of electrical equipment to keep the batteries from being drained.  I  think that a hybrid might be a good idea for them.  The larger battery would allow the engine to be shut off while keeping the equipment powered, the car could be moved very quietly if necessary, and the engine tuned for more efficiency.  They'd actually put enough miles on the vehicle in a year to make it worth it.  Note:  I'd go for a 'weak' hybrid - costs are less, and while the gasoline savings are also less, the vehicle retains all the power needed in case of a chase.

Or they could just wise up and a buy Optima yellowtops for the cruisers.

They're deep-cycle batteries meant to be repeatedly discharged, and will run the car at full load (that meaning the car is moving, even) for 2hrs with no alternator power. Lots of people in the car audio scene use them because they can run the massive amps without the car being on, without destroying their battery. I have one. They could easily keep a cruiser running for most of a day with all the electrical stuff on.

Hybrids don't make sense. They're weak cars with weak suspensions, whereas the big V-8's the cops use are all torque and heavy suspension.

[atomd]

In a lot of places they don't really even have quotas anymore or never did. Also, depending on where you live that money can go directly to the state, not the town or county. In that case, there isn't much incentive for the local police to hand out tickets. State police are a different story. Where I live now, the Sheriff's dept also hands out tickets too. Where I used to live, they didn't hand out any. They just did BCI type stuff and prisoner transportation, etc. I'm not sure where that money goes....but I do know one thing: It's all about the $. ..as usual.

Man....people can't drive worth a damn. It's amazing what you see out there these days.

[Firethorn]

Or they could just wise up and a buy Optima yellowtops for the cruisers.

If they can carry that much power, good idea.

Hybrids don't make sense. They're weak cars with weak suspensions, whereas the big V-8's the cops use are all torque and heavy suspension.

I wasn't talking about converting civics or priuses into cop cars, I was talking about turning the cop car into a hybrid, leaving the engine in there.  That's what makes it a 'weak' hybrid, the hybrid part isn't capable of moving the vehicle at significant speed.  What it can do is allow the engine to be off most of the time - such as when stopped or slowing down.  It is powerful enough to more or less instantly start the engine while starting the car moving forward, using all that nice 100% torque at 0 rpm.

Yes, it'd require a redesign.  With a hybrid of the sort I'm picturing, you remove the starter and alternator, insert an electric motor capable of acting as both with more power and service life.  Add the control logic equipment and a hundred or so pound battery pack.  Can be substantially lighter if you go with NiCd, NiMH, or one of the lithium variaties.

You end up with a vehicle that gets about the same mpg highway as a non-hybrid, but gets closer to highway mileage in the city.

[Manedwolf]

You'd end up with a vehicle that cost a lot of money over a conventional V-8, and would require retraining of the motor pool. Plus, since cruisers do get into crashes on high-speed chases, you'd have the danger of electrocuted officers and first responders. Add to that the danger of a lithium fire if a battery pack is compromised in a shootout. 

Just put in the deep cycle battery. Total cost per cruiser, less than $200. Replacement time, five minutes.

KISS principle. Don't look for complicated solutions to simple problems.

[The Annoyed Man]

In Ohio at least, part of this is related to the demise of Mayor's Courts.  Back in the day, when a ticket was issued, the case went before the city mayor, who decided guilt/innocence and also the fines and punishment.  This is why so many departments got the reputation for being speed traps and ticket happy.  And, this was in large part true.  You had the man in charge of the budget making decisions that directly impacted the income to the city.  Higher income to the city meant higher police budget.  Higher police budget meant better toys.  A few years back, it was ordered that magistrates be appointed by the city to run mayor's courts, taking the mayor out of the picture.  Income still goes to the city, but you have an independent magistrate making the decisions.  This improved things to a degree, but also started the trend to eliminating mayor's courts, as many cities didn't want to pay a magsitrate (around $1,000 a month minimum) when they could just send all of the tickets to Municipal Courts with real judges at no expense.  Pro is no cost.  Con is no income.  So, there's no motive for an officer to go write a ton of tickets any longer.

I run traffic court once a week, and I see the trend coming through here.  We're down from averaging 20 tickets a wek to 10-15 a week.  In talking with the officers, they say that people truly aren' t driving as fast.  Maybe the cost of gas is having an impact...

[Nitrogen]

It sure has on me.

I average 60mph on my commute and it's made a difference, from an average of75 previously.

[Firethorn]

KISS principle. Don't look for complicated solutions to simple problems.

Less money for less result.  Your idea fixes the idling cruiser problem, mine would save gasoline even at things such as red lights, stop signs, slow speeds, etc...

I think that it'd be interesting to try out, at least.  Though I'll agree, LiIon probably isn't the best choice, NiCD or NiMH would probably be a better choice.  Oh, and the voltages for the system don't have to be that high, in the way of emergency responders, or without disconnects in case of accident.

Saving 10% of gasoline can now be worth thousands on the price of a vehicle.

$2k@$4/gallon = 500 gallons.  15 mpg @30000 miles/year = 2k gallons.  20 mpg @30000 miles = 1.5k gallons.  Payoff time:  1 year.

Some research[url]:  Google pulls up figures like 30-80, 64(policedriving).

Using the 64 figure, we get 23.3k miles/year if the car is used for one shift a year, 70k if it's part of a 'rolling' fleet(IE used every shift).

[ilbob]

In reality, most police vehicles do not need to be speed demons. High speed chases are mostly a bad idea anyway.

Get some smaller more fuel efficient cars when they replace the 10 mpg cars they have now and save money on fuel.

Think about it this way. A cop car used 24/7 in mostly city driving will probably end up with maybe 300 miles a day. If you go from a 15 mpg vehicle to a 60 mpg hybrid, at $3 a gallon, you would save about $45 a day on fuel. Thats $16 grand a year. Can buy a lot of hybrids for that. And hybrids are really oriented toward the kind of city driving a lot of cop cars are used for..

[Manedwolf]

In reality, most police vehicles do not need to be speed demons. High speed chases are mostly a bad idea anyway.

Get some smaller more fuel efficient cars when they replace the 10 mpg cars they have now and save money on fuel.

Think about it this way. A cop car used 24/7 in mostly city driving will probably end up with maybe 300 miles a day. If you go from a 15 mpg vehicle to a 60 mpg hybrid, at $3 a gallon, you would save about $45 a day on fuel. Thats $16 grand a year. Can buy a lot of hybrids for that. And hybrids are really oriented toward the kind of city driving a lot of cop cars are used for..

Ever see a cruiser stop a suspect's car by ramming or pushing it off a road when they have to?

Good luck doing that with your econobubble speed bump.

[BridgeRunner]

Well, Michigan just raised the speed limits on all freeways to 70.  Used to be extensive sections that went through cities ranged from 55 to 65, and there was revenue to be nabbed there.  Now there just isn't.  Most of those roads, at least the ones in Detroit and Lansing, just tend to flow best around 60-65 because people tend to be on and off pretty quick.  Lots of people who used to be a couple miles over, by changing nothing, are now driving legally.  Strange move.  Not sure what the reasoning was.

[Manedwolf]

Well, Michigan just raised the speed limits on all freeways to 70.  Used to be extensive sections that went through cities ranged from 55 to 65, and there was revenue to be nabbed there.  Now there just isn't.  Most of those roads, at least the ones in Detroit and Lansing, just tend to flow best around 60-65 because people tend to be on and off pretty quick.  Lots of people who used to be a couple miles over, by changing nothing, are now driving legally.  Strange move.  Not sure what the reasoning was.

It's harder to lead a target that's going 70mph? That is particularly useful when driving through Detroit.

[ilbob]

Ever see a cruiser stop a suspect's car by ramming or pushing it off a road when they have to?

Good luck doing that with your econobubble speed bump.

That is a very rare event. Some of the SUV type hybrids would still work fine for that kind of thing, and I never sugegsted getting rid of every crown vic and replacing them with VW beetles.

[Firethorn]

Ever see a cruiser stop a suspect's car by ramming or pushing it off a road when they have to?

Good luck doing that with your econobubble speed bump.

Which is part of why I suggested the sort of hybrid I did.

On the other hand, are you aware that police cruisers have to be specially set up for that, and not all police cars are?  Have 4-5 econobox police cars, sorta like police cars over in Europe, for every road warrior police car.  Still save you boatloads of money, for which you can afford to have more police, more cars, and things to stop cars otherwise like spike traps.

Heck, there's nothing to say that you can't use a hybrid or electric for that stuff.  Can you imagine the results of a reinforced electric car, with it's 2k pounds of batteries and 500 pounds of extra structural/bumber steel giving something like a civic a love tap?  Nice low mounted weight...

edit - Ilbob, I'd be careful with SUV type hybrids, I'd want to check their center of mass out very carefully before authorizing pit maneuvers with it.  Then again, it might not be too bad once you've adjusted the suspension and added the reinforcement for it.

[Manedwolf]

Which is part of why I suggested the sort of hybrid I did.

On the other hand, are you aware that police cruisers have to be specially set up for that, and not all police cars are?  Have 4-5 econobox police cars, sorta like police cars over in Europe, for every road warrior police car. 

You mean like the ones the mobs tip over and set fire to in Paris?

Part of the function of a police cruiser is size and intimidation. If you see a Crown Vic coming at you, it's "OH CRAP".



This? Not so much.

BTW, the state police here just changed to Dodge Chargers.

[Firethorn]

You mean like the ones the mobs tip over and set fire to in Paris?

Yes.  Of course, by making them hybrids we CAN make them a fair bit larger and still have them be economical.  Not to mention heavy enough that not even football jocks can tip them.   I also like to think that we keep better control on riots today than France does.  In any case the one you posted wouldn't work except as a meter maid vehicle because there's nowhere to put arrested suspects.

Though I have to ask:  Is tipping them over first required before you set them on fire?

Like I pointed out - have a bunch of economical police cars, and STILL have some road warrior cars out and about so that when they do try running they can be smeared if necessary.

Kinda like the riot and SWAT vans for the really, really serious stuff.

Ah great...  Now I'm picturing that polizei car shooting a harpoon out of it's front into a rouge vehicles back end and pulling back...  It's not working, until a second and third do it...(I know most cars would be quite capable of pulling their own sheet metal off to escape.)

[El Tejon]

Downtown here LPD rides around on mountain bikes.  We call them "Dangles" (from Reno911!).

[Tallpine]

Downtown here LPD rides around on mountain bikes. 

Horses are cooler

[GingerGuy]

Oh, and our local NPR station doesn't seem to be very liberal at all for the most part.  There is the occasional piece, but on the whole it seems mostly factual and unbiased.  I like that it doesn't seem to pander as much, no ads, and classical music.

This is worrisome, the media bias is so bad many people do not even notice it anymore.  Much of the local NPR program airings are national and FULL of bias.  Really listen to what is being said, what topics are covered during the national news and you will see the bias is there, every day, every hour and by many sources. 

The MSM hates conservative America.  It's often not what is report, but what is not reported which is bad. 

Our tax dollars should not be funding NPR.

[Firethorn]

This is worrisome, the media bias is so bad many people do not even notice it anymore.  Much of the local NPR program airings are national and FULL of bias.  Really listen to what is being said, what topics are covered during the national news and you will see the bias is there, every day, every hour and by many sources. 

I listen to NPR in North Dakota.  It's a lot less liberal than down in NE, for example, and plays a LOT of local content.