Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Battle Monkey of Zardoz on March 23, 2011, 05:27:48 PM
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This should chill every 2A supporter. Nothing good can come from this.
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/22/nations-top-cop-vows-all-out-effort-stop-simply-unacceptable-rise-murder-police-officers
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No call for gun control was really made by the article, but I did note that it said that the guns that were used were not AK-47s and other "high power" [tinfoil] weapons. I wonder what will be made of that, if anything? That they have to go after weapons in general?
If Obama is re-elected, I see trouble then. I don't know what's going to come of this now.
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Every murder is a tragedy, whether it's a police officer, child, or whoever.
What gets me is the attention given to officers killed. There were 162 officers killed in the line of duty in 2010. There were 849 people killed in robberies in 2009 (the last year for which FBI data is available).
Nobody ever praises the convenience store clerk for bravely going to work.
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In violation of the Constitution, we now have "royalty." It's called government workers. When government workers become a protected class, they are no different than English royalty. As has been said, any murder is a tragedy.
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When's the last time you saw two cops in one car? I would think that partnering in certain areas would be worthwhile.
While unfortunate, the trend below makes sense to me, and tells me they are doing an excellent job of interdicting the violent types. The outcome of those encounters just needs to be tweaked. That's not a 2nd A type of thing, it's a management, training and/or budget issue.
"The number of officers killed is bucking the national trend. While homicides in our communities are going down, officer deaths are going up," Baltimore Police Department commissioner Fred Bealefeld said after the meeting.
Read more: http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/22/nations-top-cop-vows-all-out-effort-stop-simply-unacceptable-rise-murder-police-officers#ixzz1HTOg1IR3
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The solution, of course, is more no-knocks with poorly vetted sources, More random checkpoints to check for illegal activity (tm) and more surveillance of the populace.
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No call for gun control was really made by the article, but I did note that it said that the guns that were used were not AK-47s and other "high power" [tinfoil] weapons. I wonder what will be made of that, if anything? That they have to go after weapons in general?
If Obama is re-elected, I see trouble then. I don't know what's going to come of this now.
If you want to be a glass-half-full type about it, one could see it as a small nod to the fact that (for now) the "gun debate" in America is over, with AWB sunset, Heller vs. DC, and the overwhelming majority of shall-issue CCW states too. And a sneaky way of saying, "we have a crime problem, not a gun problem..."
The NRA could have attended, and pushed more "Project Exile" type efforts, although I think they did the right thing. The NRA gets enough "sell out" accusations lobbed their way by the GOA types as is. Showing up for an Obama-admin event under Holder... there was simply no upside for them in it.
I can't help but think, as politically a non-starter it is, that drug legalization could fix all of this. It would remove the profit incentive towards violence, and freeing up untold amounts of prison space and police and court resources wasted on non-violent offenders. That, combined with ridding ourselves of the notion of "rehabilitation" in our prison system. If someone can be rehabilitated, probation and minimum-security programs would do the trick already. The emphasis of incarceration needs simply to be segregation and protection of the population at large from violent and sexual offenders period...
Combine drug legalization with keeping our courts and prison focused on keeping violent people locked up as long as possible and away from the rest of us, and you'd see our violent crime rates fall lower than most anywhere in Europe.
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It was the demand for drugs in the very late 1960's and early 1970's that fueled the increase in violence. Get rid of the drug-related homicides and we'd likely have a lower per 100K rate than many European paradises.
There would have been no point in La Pierre attending. The pro-2nd folks have the upper hand, at least for the moment. Having the NRA attend would have given the anti's more credibility.
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Crack down, hard, on gangs, for starters. Do something about the damn border. Lay off the law-abiding citizen who wants to protect himself from gov't inaction and folly.
Royalty be damned.
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Crack down, hard, on gangs, for starters. Do something about the damn border. Lay off the law-abiding citizen who wants to protect himself from gov't inaction and folly.
Royalty be damned.
Clamping down on the border will help with a lot of the lain gangs.
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Um.... crime goes up when we have recession/depression/inflation.
Peeplez can't gets things. So they steals thingz.
Want less officer shootings? Get the economy on track.
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Um.... crime goes up when we have recession/depression/inflation.
Peeplez can't gets things EASILY or FREE. So they steals thingz.
Want less officer shootings? Get the economy on track.
I think that correction is a bit more accurate.
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It's not the economy.
If you want less crime, make your society older. :)
Your crime populations are the young and the restless.
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It's not the economy.
If you want less crime, make your society older. :)
Your crime populations are the young and the restless.
This, the crime wave of the 60's, 70's, and 80's was largely a function of the baby boom generation. Which in the late 80's began to age out of the crime range.
Although I'm sure that other factors, the economy and employment rate, crack, and cultural (intergenerational acceptance of thuggery etc.) also have a detectable effect too. However, demographics dwarfs them all.
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I have often suggest that we wipe out those under the age of 12 and start over with a generation that actually has parents instead of merely sperm/egg donors.
Actual parenting can overcome many of the cultural, as well as demographic, diabilities society is currently struggling against.
stay safe.
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What would help keep Americans safer is for the big-city courts to stop the catch and release programs for gun offenders. Watch the news or shows like "The First 48" and you'll notice that most of these perps have previous and sometimes extensive records. Throw 'em in jail. In Illinois we have a big, empty prison that sits empty due to political infighting. (Remember Thomson, where they wanted to send the Gitmo prisoners?) Filling it up with violent predators would go a long ways toward keeping police and civilians alike safer.
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Easiest way to make room in those prisons is to release the non violent offenders. Man our priorities are jacked.....
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Look at the music, movies and video games they fill their heads with. Those rap "stars" who preach violence against women, police, whitey and whom ever else have their 1st Amendment right to do so, but we do not have to listen to them. The do not have to have their songs produced. If we as a people tell United, Virgin, and all the other recording companies, no more investment $ until you stop producing something this kind of trash. Charlton Heston did it with the song "cop killer" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cop_Killer_%28song%29 . You have the right to listen to whatever you want, I would never advocate taking that away. It goes back to parenting, parents who blindly buy their kids this trash and then exclaim "my child is a victim" when little johnny and his friends rape some little girl repeatedly over a course of months, are morons.
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I really, really, really doubt that music, movies, and video games have much to do with violence. At all.
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I really, really, really doubt that music, movies, and video games have much to do with violence. At all.
To the extent that music, movies and video games can shape a culture, or a subculture, I suspect they have an effect.
Western culture doesn't condone the stoning of women for adultery, but strict Islamic culture does. They're humans, just as we are, but have been taught something different from their childhoods. Even where an Islamic state doesn't condone stoning, more fundamentalist subcultures within that state do.
Prior to the rise of feminism in the 1960's and the counter-culture movement, sexual promiscuity was frowned upon, not celebrated. In the 40-45 years since, attitudes about sexual behavior and the amount of pre-marital sex has changed substantially. The culture was changed, and it was done so through popular culture means, which included music and movies.
I wouldn't single out pop culture as the sole reason for changes in attitudes toward violence, but I certainly wouldn't exclude it.
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What can we do to make Americans safer?
1) fire all the cops except for one elected constable in each jurisdiction
2) allow anyone to carry the weapon of their choice
=)
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I really, really, really doubt that music, movies, and video games have much to do with violence. At all.
If this were true then the networks couldn't charge a million dollars for a 20 second spot during the Super Bowl. Look around your town and you can see all the little hoodlums dressed like their favorite gangsta rapist, you can't call them artist. Music does influence culture. I'm old enough to have seen music change the American culture from the 70's to now. Those that are younger always give the same argument that it doesn't effect me, as they walk around with their hat turned sideways, pants falling off their rear end, tattoos on their neck and gauges in their ears.
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What can we do to make Americans safer?
1) fire all the cops except for one elected constable in each jurisdiction
2) allow anyone to carry the weapon of their choice
=)
This. Would be a good start
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Easiest way to make room in those prisons is to release the non violent offenders. Man our priorities are jacked.....
Agreed.....Darwin will take care of the NVO's better than the prison system will....and we need the space....
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I'm of the mind that videogames, et al. do make society coarser. But it doesn't start with the acne'd 13-year-old who thinks ultra-violence is cool, it starts with the 40-year-old adolescent driving a Mercedes who greenlights the purchase and distribution of What Sells. The culture is rotting from the head down.
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It seems to me that the obvious answer has been missed:
Violence rate are falling because America is doing it fairly right.
Somewhere in the 1980's someone figured out the answer:
Most heinous crimes - by no means all, but most - are not committed by regular people. They're committed by scumbags. And most of the time you can identify the scumbags early on when they commit 'lesser' crimes. Punish them for the 'lesser' crimes, lock them away. Establish restrictions on their movements when they come back out of prison.
The bans on felons possessing firearms, for example, for all the moral and Constitutional criticism, serve this purpose: establish any excuse possible to return the scumbags to prison. Because whatever the argument about deterrence, here's what we do know: If Joe the Convenience Store Robber is given another ten-year prison term, that's ten years he won't be robbing any convenience stores.
Somewhere in the 1980's someone figured out the answer:
Arm the good guys. Make Joe the Convenience Store Robber switch to, say, stealing cars. Still annoying and bad for society, but at least nobody gets shot. I hardly need to explain to this crowd why this is good.
Somewhere in the 1980's someone figured out the answer:
Hire more cops. When Joe the Convenience Store Robber is statistically more likely to get caught, he's less likely to do it.
We know the solutions to the main issues of life. They're not new. Our ancestors knew them in a rough form, and we are now only elaborating on them in a more scientific manner:
1. Bad people do bad things. Isolate bad people from society and they will not be able to do the bad things to us.
2. Bad people are afraid of the police. Police catch them. Hire police.
3. Bad people are not the same as good people. Arm the good people. Bad people get shot or scared.
These things were known to people in 15th century Italy and 10th century France. Today, we can elaborate on them in criminology institutes, but in grand detail, crime and violence are a solved problem.
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I'll take #3
Ammo is cheaper than police and prisons.
;)
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Music does influence culture.
I demand to know how this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThquH5t0ow) influenced culture. :laugh:
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I demand to know how this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThquH5t0ow) influenced culture. :laugh:
Well, it did result in a more-annoying-than-usual episode of Family Guy. Which might have caused somewhere to do....something. Possibly even violent. To their TV, anyway.
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I demand to know how this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZThquH5t0ow) influenced culture. :laugh:
Well, it did result in a more-annoying-than-usual episode of Family Guy. Which might have caused somewhere to do....something. Possibly even violent. To their TV, anyway.
>:D
That was an evil thing to do ... reminding me of that episode ... [tinfoil]
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Micro;
Usually you and I see eye to eye. But, I'm having a real hard time following you on this.
See, even the "good" people commit crimes with startling regularity. Things like driving infractions, cheating on taxes (including not reporting internet purchases on tax
forms, I bet every single member of this forum is guilty of that one. Tax evasions is a felony, is it not?), software and media piracy, gambling, smoking marijuana, etc.
Thing is, I don't really believe in this line between good people and bad people. The only difference between me and some guy in jail for one of a huge number of things is that he got caught.
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Here's what I mean.
I mean we do not need to contrive some magical new social solution to violent crime.
Violent crime is a solved problem.
Regular Joe is cosmically unlikely to flip out and beat me to death with a brick. Gang-banger Joe with the previous violence convictions is the one to be worried about.
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Micro;
Usually you and I see eye to eye. But, I'm having a real hard time following you on this.
See, even the "good" people commit crimes with startling regularity. Things like driving infractions, cheating on taxes (including not reporting internet purchases on tax
forms, I bet every single member of this forum is guilty of that one. Tax evasions is a felony, is it not?), software and media piracy, gambling, smoking marijuana, etc.
Thing is, I don't really believe in this line between good people and bad people. The only difference between me and some guy in jail for one of a huge number of things is that he got caught.
Your argument tends to conflate criminals with non criminals.
You might start by recognizing the difference between "malum in se" laws and "malum prohibitum" type laws.
Yes, we all "cheat" on laws to an extent. This morning I did a "rolling stop" at an intersection instead of a full stop. Technically I am a criminal.
However, I am not a murderer, rapist, thief, pillager, or anything that could be defined under "malum in se."
There certainly IS a difference between "good" people and "bad" people. Unless you think the scuzz who, just ten minutes ago, raped and slaughtered your wife stands on par with Mother Theresa, if only, maybe, because "he hasn't been caught yet.
Yes, tax evasions are felonies ... or atleast serious crimes. Do I support tax evaders? No. OTOH I don't get as "offended" at them as I do murderers, mainly because (A.) murder actually deprives someone of the most important thing they have; their life, and (B.) [and I admit I am being a bit jaded or cynical here] because tax laws are made by a group of some of the most corrupt jackwagons on the face of this planet, in order to "spread wealth around" and get votes. These people (and you know who I mean) will whine to the cows come home about the "rich paying their 'fair share,'" when they already pay much of the tax burden and the lower half of income earners pay little to no tax. They have a misbegotten concept of how to improve the economy (really think things are getting better??) and stuff laws down our throats so we can "find out what's in them" (re: Nancy Pelosi and the mammoth health care bill). Now this doesn't justify us breaking any law.... but when I hear about some sorry shlum getting pinched because he didn't pay a $15,000 tax bill, I don't get all "offended" I just think that was a sorry -- assed mistake, he should have simply paid it, written off the $$$$ and gotten on with his life. A serial murderer, OTOH, does fry my sensibilities.
SOME crimes really DO make you a bad person ---- even an EVIL person. The rapist, the murderer. Those ARE evil people. There's just no conflating those people with tax cheats IMHO.
The guy who doesn't pay taxes on an internet purchase? Technically he's a criminal, but that is malum prohibitum.
Can the government get all wound up about it? With so many doing it, I'd like to see how they could either enforce it, or imprison everyone who does it. Again, like the income tax, this is a way for kongress to express its control over the people. It's a "sword of Damocles" over our heads....not being used right now .... but how about the future, when they might need to tighten the ''thumb-screws?"
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Violent crime is a solved problem.
More likely, big picture, it's just being transferred from the individual to the State. Without the internal strictures of a proper moral foundation--which is anathema to the liberal mind--the answer to crime is the external suppression of a police state.
Slowly but surely everything we think, say, and do is being criminalized by those for whom power and control are the one true religion.