Author Topic: Anyone watch the debate last night?  (Read 9109 times)

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Anyone watch the debate last night?
« on: August 12, 2011, 09:38:31 AM »
Had a work thing so I missed them. Twitter tells me the moderators asked more tough questions than Obama has been asked his entire presidency, Pawlenty and Bachmann ripped each other to bits, and Ron Paul wants Iran to have nukes.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 10:41:54 AM by Balog »
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 10:19:15 AM »
Nope.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

coppertales

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 947
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 10:28:32 AM »
No, I left my waders at camp.................chris3

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,814
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 11:45:59 AM »
One of the recent radio commentaries I heard was critical of Pawlenty that he has really failed to attack the Romney at all, but spends all his time attacking Bachman which the commenter thought was a bit weird.  Said he doesn't seem to attack anyone or anything but Bachman. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 11:58:31 AM »
D'oh wrong thread.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

henschman

  • New Member
  • Posts: 38
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 01:39:21 PM »
Yeah, it was pretty good.  They seemed to give fairly equal time to the candidates, and definitely asked some tough questions.

My guy Ron Paul did better than he has in previous debates, though he still needs to work on boiling his ideas down to 30-second sound bytes that Joe Sixpack can understand.  He also needs to get more aggressive.  With his super-consistent 35 year record, he could make the others look like complete posers if he wanted to.  On the foreign policy front, he should also point out that he is the only veteran running, and that he gets more contributions from active duty military than all the other GOP candidates put together, and quite a bit more than Obama too. 
“Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.”
-- Thomas Jefferson

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 01:57:14 PM »
I'm pretty sure "I'm cool with Iran having nukes" is a deal killer for everyone but the hardest hardline libertarians.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 02:18:39 PM »
I'm pretty sure "I'm cool with Iran having nukes" is a deal killer for everyone but the hardest hardline libertarians.

I am flattered that you think of me as a hardline libertarian.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Harold Tuttle

  • Professor Chromedome
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,069
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 02:23:18 PM »
Ron Paul had some great moments of "we don't need to be the worlds mother in law"
"The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the "Hello, my name is.." badge!
He strikes from below like a viper or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around!
He only has one purpose--Do bad things to good people! Mit science! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!"

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 02:57:39 PM »
I am flattered that you think of me as a hardline libertarian.

If the shoe fits... ;)

(I'd be flattered by "hardline conservative", too)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2011, 03:56:59 PM »
I am flattered that you think of me as a hardline libertarian.

Are you in favor of Iran having nukes? If so, I will defer to your position as they will be pointed at you, not us...
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 03:58:40 PM »
I didn't....but I've been listening to the radio talk-show "gurus" and their analysis.....

....and, if Rush Limbaugh doesn't stop gushing all over Romney, I'm going to  [barf] ......

I've always had doubts as to Limbaugh's "conservatism"....today adds to those doubts....  :mad:
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2011, 04:02:46 PM »
Are you in favor of Iran having nukes? If so, I will defer to your position as they will be pointed at you, not us...

This has never been an issue.

There exists a certain chance Iran will develop nukes within the next Presidential term (a very small chance given the fail that is Iran). Were I an American voter, I would certainly prefer to vote for a President who would do his level best to gut the welfare-police state, even if that meant a certain risk of a nuclear-armed Iran. My freedom is exponentially more important to me than the risk of a nuclear-armed Iran.

Hell, if a politician existed in Israel that wanted to destroy the welfare-police state at the cost of not caring about Iran I would vote for him in an eyeblink.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Jamisjockey

  • Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 26,580
  • Your mom sends me care packages
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 06:28:09 PM »
This has never been an issue.

There exists a certain chance Iran will develop nukes within the next Presidential term (a very small chance given the fail that is Iran). Were I an American voter, I would certainly prefer to vote for a President who would do his level best to gut the welfare-police state, even if that meant a certain risk of a nuclear-armed Iran. My freedom is exponentially more important to me than the risk of a nuclear-armed Iran.
Hell, if a politician existed in Israel that wanted to destroy the welfare-police state at the cost of not caring about Iran I would vote for him in an eyeblink.

Hear hear.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 06:29:40 PM »
This has never been an issue.

There exists a certain chance Iran will develop nukes within the next Presidential term (a very small chance given the fail that is Iran). Were I an American voter, I would certainly prefer to vote for a President who would do his level best to gut the welfare-police state, even if that meant a certain risk of a nuclear-armed Iran. My freedom is exponentially more important to me than the risk of a nuclear-armed Iran.

Hell, if a politician existed in Israel that wanted to destroy the welfare-police state at the cost of not caring about Iran I would vote for him in an eyeblink.

Even if you agree with the "It's not our business if the rogue terrorist state has nukes" surely you recognize that espousing that view is political suicide right?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

CNYCacher

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,438
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 06:34:59 PM »
Even if you agree with the "It's not our business if the rogue terrorist state has nukes" surely you recognize that espousing that view is political suicide right?

You prefer liars?
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
Charles Babbage

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2011, 06:42:14 PM »
You prefer liars?

No, I'd prefer he was against Iran having nukes. But if he does hold to that, I want him to be very circumspect in his answer. "I certainly prefer Iran did not have that capability, as they have proven themselves a violent and evil nation. But we cannot continue to waste American lives and treasure policing every rogue nation in the world. I would not approve military force against Iran unless there was very strong evidence that they both possessed nuclear weapons and planned to use them aggressively." In stead of "Yeehaw, I'm a Libertarian and I don't give a damn what evil terrorist state has nukes."

Not saying that was the actual gist of his answer, but that is the impression that many people took away from it.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

CNYCacher

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,438
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2011, 06:58:57 PM »
No, I'd prefer he was against Iran having nukes. But if he does hold to that, I want him to be very circumspect in his answer. "I certainly prefer Iran did not have that capability, as they have proven themselves a violent and evil nation. But we cannot continue to waste American lives and treasure policing every rogue nation in the world. I would not approve military force against Iran unless there was very strong evidence that they both possessed nuclear weapons and planned to use them aggressively." In stead of "Yeehaw, I'm a Libertarian and I don't give a damn what evil terrorist state has nukes."

Not saying that was the actual gist of his answer, but that is the impression that many people took away from it.

I'm glad that you seem to realize that your well-thought-out and ideal response would be reduced to "Ron Paul wants Iran to have nukes!!!!11" on twitter.
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
Charles Babbage

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2011, 07:08:42 PM »
Even if you agree with the "It's not our business if the rogue terrorist state has nukes" surely you recognize that espousing that view is political suicide right?

Okay. Here's what I believe, and it is very simple:

1. Ron Paul is not going to win the primary. God himself, had He descended on Earth and endorsed Ron Paul, could not make him win the primary.

2. I do not believe in isolationism. However, it is very very low on my list of concerns. Which segues into:

3. I believe the system of government that exists today in the Western world is unjust and morally wrong. It is a moral superior to previous systems of government or to the ones that exist now in, say, China or Iran. But it is still morally wrong. I do not mean to say that society has degraded morally or that we are about to collapse, or anything like that. I believe that the worst thing that could happen to us, in the long-term, is that this system continues permanently.

4. As a consequence of 3 and 2: In a hypothetical scenario, if anybody votes for a candidate that is 'strong' on Iran but is otherwise a RINO and a supporter of what we have, on the strength of that issue alone, over the a pro-freedom candidate who is 'weak' on Iran? Then this person deserves everything he gets.

In my view that person is worse than a socialist votes against the pro-freedom candidate on that basis.

Socialists at least genuinely don't know better. The person who chooses (hypothethically) Romney or some other mainstream candidate over Ron Paul based on the fictional Islamic threat, despite knowing fully Ron Paul (or a hypothetical candidate like him) supports freedom more than Romney does - he should by right know better.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2011, 07:10:57 PM »
Wow....

i think i agree with most of that

i'm gonna have dinner and check again.  then i don't know what to do
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

erictank

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,410
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2011, 11:42:28 PM »
Wow....

i think i agree with most of that

i'm gonna have dinner and check again.  then i don't know what to do

Vote for a candidate who actually gives a damn about freedom and the Constitution, instead of the freakin' "Republican frontrunners"?   :mad:

In before "Vote for a third party candidate?  Why would I throw my vote away like that?" (where's my beating-my-head-on-the-brick-wall emoticon?).  And I'm not even picking on you in particular about this, C&SD (not trying to, anyways, so don't take it as such, please).  But voting for the establishment has gotten us where we are today, where all of us here, and a fair bit of the rest of the country, agree we need to back away from the cliff's edge post-haste.  Voting for either of the more-of-the-same parties would seem to be... contraindicated.

But yeah, it's gonna be freakin' Romney vs. Obama, plus assorted other candidates who'll pick up fractions of a percent apiece.   [barf]  Well, the country was nice while it lasted.  And I'll get a front-row set to the collapse of the Republic. ;/  Gah.

Jocassee

  • Buster Scruggs Respecter
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,591
  • "First time?"
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2011, 12:25:04 AM »
Wow....

i think i agree with most of that

i'm gonna have dinner and check again.  then i don't know what to do

Best post of the night
I shall not die alone, alone, but kin to all the powers,
As merry as the ancient sun and fighting like the flowers.

Balog

  • Unrepentant race traitor
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17,774
  • What if we tried more?
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2011, 01:47:22 AM »
My point was not about Ron Paul. It was about being an effective poli-critter, which means either not holding crazy positions or being able to downplay them to focus on the things you are good on and supported for.

And cny, he didn't say "I don't support military action to prevent Iran from getting nukes" he's on the record as supporting it. Not a wise move.

I suppose it makes some people feel good to support candidates who sabotage themselves. "Don't blame me, I voted for Ron Paul!" I'm every bit as tired of useless and ineffectual conservatives as I am of sellouts like Romney.

The election is a job interview. The job is both getting elected AND being effective once elected. I won't support anyone who's politically incompetent nor will I support a "moderate."
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2011, 05:04:41 AM »
It's like this in my mind:

If the voters will nominate Romney or a similar candidate over Ron Paul on the strength of their Iran views then they deserve to get it, and they deserve to get it good and hard. In the same way as the voters who voted for Johnson over Goldwater because of Goldwater's statement on tactical nuclear weapons deserved everything they got.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

KD5NRH

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,926
  • I'm too sexy for you people.
Re: Anyone watch the debate last night?
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2011, 05:15:03 AM »
Are you in favor of Iran having nukes?

Absolutely.  I vote we send them some of our spares.  We can even arm them first.

Of course, I don't think our guys should risk landing to deliver them, so they'll just have to kick them out the door from whatever altitude a C5 full of outdated bombs can get to.

(Why the heck isn't there a bomber variant of the C5 anyway?)