Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Mannlicher on April 28, 2015, 11:01:09 AM
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http://clashdaily.com/2015/04/freddy-grays-arrest-record-heres-the-rap-sheet-of-the-dude-theyre-destroying-baltimore-over/
Typical..............
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Well, I didn't figure he was walking from the seminary to go check on his grandmother. I don't think a mostly libertarian-ish board is going to agree that dying in police custody for being an undocumented pharmacist is just. But that doesn't mean we can't shoot looters right? Because they need it too.
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I don't think a mostly libertarian-ish board is going to agree that dying in police custody is just. But that doesn't mean we can't shoot looters right? Because they need it too.
FTFY....
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http://clashdaily.com/2015/04/freddy-grays-arrest-record-heres-the-rap-sheet-of-the-dude-theyre-destroying-baltimore-over/
Typical..............
Arrests mean nothing - especially in a society where you can arrest a ham sandwich.
Conviction have not one damn thing to do with what may or may not have led up to Freddie's injuries while in police custody.
Most of the case law that we libertarian good, law-abiding citizens hold dear comes from what happened to somebody who was as guilty as sin. Were it not for the cops botching the case the folks behind what became case law/constitutional clarification would be behind bars.
stay safe.
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http://clashdaily.com/2015/04/freddy-grays-arrest-record-heres-the-rap-sheet-of-the-dude-theyre-destroying-baltimore-over/
Typical..............
Missing the part where he was arrested for having possession of a switchblade (not brandishing, just possession). Personally, I believe RKBA applies to knives as well and would characterize said charge as unconstitutional. Maryland disagrees, obviously.
There may or may not be video evidence of his arrest, for possession of a switchblade, that shows excessive use of force. The officers swore that he was taken without violence, and somehow magically suffered a medical emergency during transport. Because most routine transport can cause "80% severed" spine, three fractured vertebrae, and injured larynx. So either he was walking around with said injuries, or he was killed via excessive use of force and the officers lied repeatedly in official documents.
Having spent time in Baltimore and have had some direct experiences with the Baltimore police...
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Perhaps they cuffed him and tossed him the back of the van, and then tried to "teach him a lesson" by taking hard turns and slamming on the brakes (etc) to bounce him against the walls. I think it would be pretty easy to get a broken neck that way.
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Sounds like the cops did something horrible.
No excuse for the riots though.
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The thought comes to mind that the recent incidents may go a long way toward accomplishing what more civilized people have been trying to do for years: get the police to stop with the unnecessary roughness. The problem has been that civilized people address such abuses of authority in court, and the cops and the municipalities don't pay any penalty -- any settlement comes from insurance.
A few more incidents like Ferguson and Baltimore, and maybe some police departments will start to realize that actions have consequences.
Nah ... wishful thinking, at best.
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The thought comes to mind that the recent incidents may go a long way toward accomplishing what more civilized people have been trying to do for years: get the police to stop with the unnecessary roughness. The problem has been that civilized people address such abuses of authority in court, and the cops and the municipalities don't pay any penalty -- any settlement comes from insurance.
A few more incidents like Ferguson and Baltimore, and maybe some police departments will start to realize that actions have consequences.
Nah ... wishful thinking, at best.
What needs to happen? Just a couple of cases (one probably won't do it) where you have a very suspicious police killing, followed by small peaceful protests, then the usual cover-up. And then as soon as the case is closed (no finding of any wrongdoing, of course), the specific officers involved and maybe those who helped bury the investigation get assassinated. Very professional, no collateral damage. THAT would wake some people up, but it'll never happen. It's more fun to burn neighborhoods and rob liquor stores.
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Missing the part where he was arrested for having possession of a switchblade (not brandishing, just possession).
MD considers any spring-assisted knife to be a switchblade. http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-law/title-4/subtitle-1/4-105/
I'm not sure where the law stands on locking blades.
stay safe.
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It gets more interesting if all this is true
http://thefourthestate.co/2015/04/breaking-freddy-gray-had-spine-surgery-just-one-week-before-arrest/
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A few more incidents like Ferguson and Baltimore, and maybe some police departments will start to realize that actions have consequences.
I'm not really seeing where Brown getting dead after attacking a cop and Gray getting dead under what so far looks to be very questionable circumstances are the same thing.
What needs to happen is that rioters need to be taught the lesson that rioting has severe, life threatening consequences.
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I've not been following the Gray story closely. What's the evidence that police used unreasonable force?
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I've not been following the Gray story closely. What's the evidence that police used unreasonable force?
Corpse with a broken neck.
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Corpse with a broken neck.
That's all? Nothing on how/when/why Gray was injured?
Edit: I understand that the cops found him in the back of the police van in bad shape. They got him to a hospital, but maybe took too long. But that's about all I know.
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Well there is that pesky story about his spinal surgery prior to going walkabout
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Sounds like the cops did something horrible.
No excuse for the riots though.
Yes and yes. I fully support harsh punishments for bad cops as well as shooting looters on sight.
Isn't the operating theory that he was put unsecured into a van then brake checked causing him to slide head first into the divider and cause the injuries?
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That's all? Nothing on how/when/why Gray was injured?
Edit: I understand that the cops found him in the back of the police van in bad shape. They got him to a hospital, but maybe took too long. But that's really all I know.
He was walking and talking when it started, when he got to the hospital he had a crushed larynx and 3 vertebrae were broken, spinal cord was 80% severed.
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Yes and yes. I fully support harsh punishments for bad cops as well as shooting looters on sight.
Isn't the operating theory that he was put unsecured into a van then brake checked causing him to slide head first into the divider and cause the injuries?
It's a charm city tradition
And he's not the first person hurt by a "rough ride"
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What's weird about all this is that there seems to have been an immediate and prompt investigation that is supposed to concluded *Friday*. That seems fast to me. Not like Ferguson. Black Mayor and Black Chief. Maybe we wouldn't agree with their politics, up to and including the "Space to Destroy" comment. But let's be real here. There is minimal reason to even have a sporty protest, much less a riot.
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Isn't the operating theory that he was put unsecured into a van then brake checked causing him to slide head first into the divider and cause the injuries?
Evidence or supposition?
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The police. Commissioner has owned up to it
And video supports it
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Ok, so the police bounced him around in the van on the drive back to the station.
I had thought (not sure why) the story was that police used excessive force during the arrest, that they beat him to death during the arrest. Death by broken neck doesn't fit with a beating during arrest, which is why I was skeptical. But it seems that's not the case at all.
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Oh there were claims by one witness that he was beat. They were not supported by autopsy results
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Does not matter if he was beat during arrest or not. When you seize someone you assume responsibility for their safety. Goes with the badge. If you can't handle that, Burger King is hiring.
The officers involved are responsible.
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Does not matter if he was beat during arrest or not. When you seize someone you assume responsibility for their safety. Goes with the badge. If you can't handle that, Burger King is hiring.
The officers involved are responsible.
Yep. Those cops need to go down for at least voluntary manslaughter, if not 2nd/3rd degree murder.
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Yes and yes. I fully support harsh punishments for bad cops as well as shooting looters on sight.
Isn't the operating theory that he was put unsecured into a van then brake checked causing him to slide head first into the divider and cause the injuries?
I suggested that earlier. I haven't seen it in the news anywhere, but I haven't been looking today. The police chief (commissioner?) admitted that Gray wasn't secured in the back of the van. (the union is pissed about him saying that) The brake-checking just fits, and if CSD's thing about recent neck surgery is true, that supports the theory.
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The thought comes to mind that the recent incidents may go a long way toward accomplishing what more civilized people have been trying to do for years: get the police to stop with the unnecessary roughness. The problem has been that civilized people address such abuses of authority in court, and the cops and the municipalities don't pay any penalty -- any settlement comes from insurance.
A few more incidents like Ferguson and Baltimore, and maybe some police departments will start to realize that actions have consequences.
Nah ... wishful thinking, at best.
Mentioned that to DW this afternoon.
One can hope.
But I'm not betting on it.
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In one video I saw it appeared that the officers were all but dragging Gray to the van as opposed to helping him walk.
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Even the most ardent police supporter has to admit that Baltimore PD is one of the more corrupt and violent departments in the nation. They rank right up there with Chicago PD, who hired active gang members and had off duty cops pulling armed robberies. Crips/Bloods/NoI/BGF vs B'more PD is truly an example of when retards collide and one can only hope casualties are high on both sides.
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DOJ gets all up in the Ferguson Police Dept's business over some fairly trivial stuff meanwhile Baltimore is hemorrhaging taxpayer dollars paying off police brutality lawsuits.
I'm thinking The Baltimore city government as well as the Maryland state government needs a giant enema.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-gray-police-lawsuits-20150422-story.html#page=1 (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-gray-police-lawsuits-20150422-story.html#page=1)
In the last two weeks, for example, the city's spending board approved two settlements totaling $255,000. One lawsuit was filed by the estate of a man shot and killed by police in 2012. The other was filed by a man who said he incurred more than $55,000 in medical and dental expenses after being punched by an officer in 2011.
Overall, the city has paid roughly $6.3 million since 2011 to settle police-misconduct claims, according to a Baltimore Sun review of city and court records.
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Does not matter if he was beat during arrest or not. When you seize someone you assume responsibility for their safety. Goes with the badge. If you can't handle that, Burger King is hiring.
The officers involved are responsible.
This.
If Gray did have surgery and that was a contributing factor, it might mitigate punishment.
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Well there is that pesky story about his spinal surgery prior to going walkabout
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Which would make it easy for them to injure or kill him after roughing him up. A practice you've plainly and openly supported on this board.
The police are not judges, juries nor executioners. They are arresting witnesses to crimes and nothing more.
There is no justification to burn loot and riot. But there is also no justification to leave an un-belted, handcuffed suspect on the floor of a paddy wagon and intentionally take hard turns, stops and bumps to rough him up.
There is plenty of wrong to go around.
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I don't think his surgery, if true, has any bearing to mitigate anything. Fact: if the officers involved hand not come into his life that day he might be alive. The only factor that should come into play on criminal charges is BPDs history of doing this "rough ride" thing. Fire a few officer, put them in prison to experience their own rough rides.
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I don't think his surgery, if true, has any bearing to mitigate anything. Fact: if the officers involved hand not come into his life that day he might be alive. The only factor that should come into play on criminal charges is BPDs history of doing this "rough ride" thing. Fire a few officer, put them in prison to experience their own rough rides.
I do think is has some weight. Oh, I still think there should be serious repercussions, but Gray might very well have sustained injuries even if BPD followed proper procedures. If the surgery bit is true, Gray has some responsibility for going out and slinging dope instead of taking a load off until fully healed.
Approved police techniques for subduing an unwilling suspect pretty much assume someone of sound body. As do "unapproved police techniques." If BPD engaged in the latter, Gray's condition would be less of a mitigating circumstance I'd think.
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This rough van ride thing, is it common in Baltimore? And how often does it result in death?
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Why was he arrested? From info I am reading, the arrest may not have been lawful.
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Why was he arrested? From info I am reading, the arrest may not have been lawful.
He made "eye contact" with a cop, then when the cop said/did something he ran away. When they caught him he had what MD considers a switchblade on him.
stay safe.
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TBH i was surprised about the amount of space in the back of one of Baltimores prisoner transport vans:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.theatlantic.com%2Fassets%2Fmedia%2Fimg%2Fmt%2F2015%2F04%2FAP139541889459%2Flead_960.jpg%3FGE2DGMBSGM3TMOBZFYYA%3D%3D%3D%3D&hash=5d841ca49b0e087b37f6cd279526e84aa059c470)
this is the back of one of the vans over on this side of the pond:
(https://thecustodyrecord.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/4672496071_0cbbd57a93_z.jpg)
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I think Scout26 called it. There are legitimate ways of voicing your displeasure. I don't care how egregious the police were, looting and burning half of town isn't how you respond. In Baltimore's case, I'd even thrown them a bone if it was limited to torching police cars. At least that would show consistency. Walgreen's didn't kill your homey.
They're turning this into a license to act like savages every time some *expletive deleted*hole tries to grab a cop's gun and gets killed for the sheer stupidity of the act.
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If this is true. The "pre existing spinal injury" is bull *expletive deleted*it rumor.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-gray-settlement-20150429-story.html
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I do think is has some weight. Oh, I still think there should be serious repercussions, but Gray might very well have sustained injuries even if BPD followed proper procedures. If the surgery bit is true, Gray has some responsibility for going out and slinging dope instead of taking a load off until fully healed.
Approved police techniques for subduing an unwilling suspect pretty much assume someone of sound body. As do "unapproved police techniques." If BPD engaged in the latter, Gray's condition would be less of a mitigating circumstance I'd think.
I disagree. If he was properly handled his existing injury/surgical site wouldn't have been affected. Opting to go out and sling dope, leading to an arrest, is 100% irrelevant unless he was injured while resisting arrest. IMO it has no baring at all if excessive force was used or he was purposely roughed up.
At the same time, there is likewise no excuse for those who are rioting. Folk robbing, slashing fire hoses, burning cars and buildings, etc.? I'm fine with shooting them on site. When the evidence is there that the cops killed him, and nothing is done about it? Then by all means tar and feather the pricks responsible, but don't *expletive deleted*ck up other folks *expletive deleted*it.
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I think Scout26 called it. There are legitimate ways of voicing your displeasure. I don't care how egregious the police were, looting and burning half of town isn't how you respond. In Baltimore's case, I'd even thrown them a bone if it was limited to torching police cars. At least that would show consistency. Walgreen's didn't kill your homey.
They're turning this into a license to act like savages every time some *expletive deleted*hole tries to grab a cop's gun and gets killed for the sheer stupidity of the act.
Pretty much my line of thought.
There is a meme running around referencing the Boston Tea Party, which annoys the crap out of me. If they were specifically targeting police, that meme would be appropriate, but they aren't. They are burning down CVS.
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I disagree. If he was properly handled his existing injury/surgical site wouldn't have been affected. Opting to go out and sling dope, leading to an arrest, is 100% irrelevant unless he was injured while resisting arrest. IMO it has no baring at all if excessive force was used or he was purposely roughed up.
At the same time, there is likewise no excuse for those who are rioting. Folk robbing, slashing fire hoses, burning cars and buildings, etc.? I'm fine with shooting them on site. When the evidence is there that the cops killed him, and nothing is done about it? Then by all means tar and feather the pricks responsible, but don't *expletive deleted*ck up other folks *expletive deleted*it.
Have you ever seen resisting folk taken down or taken someone down your own self? It can be quite...vigorous. If someone has a pre-existing injury, it can easily be exacerbated by perfectly legal and reasonable methods. If one is injured, it is wise not to resist.
Hell, anyone who has played contact sports could figure out that much.
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I misremember the proper legal concept name, but essentially it runs that one must, unless there is prior knowlege, take a person they assault (or arrest) as they appear at that time.
You can't see my CHF or host of arythmia issues. About all you can see is my shape and that I use a cane. Kind of limits my ability to sue cops (or anybody else) for exacerbated injury isues.
stay safe.
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From a WaPo article http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?hpid=z1 saying that a prisoner on the other side of the transport van heard what sounded like Freddie banging his head.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi176.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw186%2Fvaskidmark%2Fdont%2520shoot%2520and%2520we%2520wont%2520loot_zpssxjvpxdp.jpg&hash=8fd3f8a8d661e726ab586b8b3d548181d8eebfe0)
Apparently not committing a crime is dependent on not suffering the consequences of commiting a crime.
:facepalm:
stay safe.
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Instapundit cites a couple of articles that blame everybody but the rioters:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-blue-city-model-1430263661
The Wall Street Journal has an excellent editorial today, explaining how the Baltimore riots demonstrate the utter failure of progressivism in urban America:
The men and women in charge have been Democrats, and their governing ideas are “progressive.” This model, with its reliance on government and public unions, has dominated urban America as once-vibrant cities such as Baltimore became shells of their former selves. In 1960 Baltimore was America’s sixth largest city with 940,000 people. It has since shed nearly a third of its population and today isn’t in the top 25.
The dysfunctions of the blue-city model are many, but the main failures are three: high crime, low economic growth and failing public schools that serve primarily as jobs programs for teachers and administrators rather than places of learning.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/28/baltimore-is-a-democrat-problem-not-americas-problem/
Exactly. John Nolte over at Breitbart has a similar take:
Baltimore is not America’s problem or shame. That failed city is solely and completely a Democrat problem. Like many failed cities, Detroit comes to mind, and every city besieged recently by rioting, Democrats and their union pals have had carte blanche to inflict their ideas and policies on Baltimore since 1967, the last time there was a Republican Mayor. . . .
Liberalism and all the toxic government dependence and cronyism and union corruption and failed schools that comes along with it, has run amok in Baltimore for a half-century, and that is Baltimore’s problem. . . .
Poverty has nothing to do with it. This madness and chaos and anarchy is a Democrat-driven culture that starts at the top with a racially-divisive White House heartbreakingly effective at ginning up hate and violence.
Nolte’s right: The rioting in Ferguson and Baltimore isn’t driven by poverty, race, or even police brutality. It’s driven by progressive culture, which teaches that successful business people “didn’t build that,” accepts abortion/divorce/children out of wedlock as normal behavior, proclaims that poor children (particularly minorities) cannot succeed, that police and authority in general are the “enemy,” and that law is rigged against minorities. Urban music, “leaders” like Al Sharpton, and a Democrat strategy of balkanizing Americans through identity politics–echoed daily by mainstream media–has created a culture that has no respect for the rule of law. In the eyes of progressives, the American Dream is dead, and they are literally dancing on its grave.
Until this progressive culture changes (if it ever can) or is marginalized politically, we will have lawless behavior every time these destructive, sociopathic cultural expectations are reinforced by tragedies like the deaths of Michael Brown or Freddie Gray.
stay safe.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/report-freddie-gray-may-have-intentionally-tried-to-injure-self-in-police-van/
Freddie Gray, whose death triggered Monday’s rioting in Baltimore, may have intentionally tried to injure himself in a police van, according to another prisoner in the vehicle, the Washington Post reported late Wednesday night.
The Post said the unidentified prisoner, who was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him, reportedly said he heard Gray “banging himself against the walls” and believed he “was intentionally trying to injure himself."
Be very interesting if this turns out to be true. Also it has been mentioned that the "full" report may not be released.
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Even the most ardent police supporter has to admit that Baltimore PD is one of the more corrupt and violent departments in the nation. They rank right up there with Chicago PD, who hired active gang members and had off duty cops pulling armed robberies. Crips/Bloods/NoI/BGF vs B'more PD is truly an example of when retards collide and one can only hope casualties are high on both sides.
CS&D's first attempt has proven to be untrue, but don't worry, he keep making up stuff trying to show that BPD is all sweetness and light just like NOPD, CPD, NYPD and other big blue city police departments....
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CS&D's first attempt has proven to be untrue, but don't worry, he keep making up stuff trying to show that BPD is all sweetness and light just like NOPD, CPD, NYPD and other big blue city police departments....
Seriously?
=|
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Even the most ardent police supporter has to admit that Baltimore PD is one of the more corrupt and violent departments in the nation. They rank right up there with Chicago PD, who hired active gang members and had off duty cops pulling armed robberies. Crips/Bloods/NoI/BGF vs B'more PD is truly an example of when retards collide and one can only hope casualties are high on both sides.
CS&D's first attempt has proven to be untrue, but don't worry, he keep making up stuff trying to show that BPD is all sweetness and light just like NOPD, CPD, NYPD and other big blue city police departments....
In defense of the Chicago PD - the decision to hire active gangbangers to patrol several of the public housing projects was pure genius that actually worked as planned. Gangs stuck to their agreement not to commit crime in their project in return for police not coming in looking for them. Ray-Ray made sure that everybody's grandmother got her groceries home without being mugged. Ray-Ray had a "home base" he could run to and not be tagged "it" by the cops. The CPD did not have to suit up a full SWAT team to try and deal with some jaywalker they followed home before a ticket could be written.
All of which only proves that even a blind pig will find an acorn once in a while.
And has nothing to do with the Baltimore PD.
stay safe.
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Are you new here?
CS&D has worked hard to defend/excuse every instance of police violation of suspects rights/brutality/murder that has been discussed here. From the murder of a USMC veteran miner,killed protecting his family in an amateur hour no-knock raid. (In which nothing illegal was found, but the made up scary sounding names for perfectly legal things, that were not taken as evidence.) To the guy in NM that got anal probed seven times to include a lower GI camera being used, to now with Freddie Grey.
It's knee-jerk reaction with him. Suspect dead or beaten or violated, and CS&D's right there with "He had it coming". Makes me wonder if "Defend all bad cops on the interwebz" is a part of one of his plea deals or if he's works for a police union on the side....
Dude, you need to chill out. You're kneejerking more than he is. Your emotions and biases are getting the better of you.
Editing his posts and attacking him personally aren't cool. The fact that you disagree with him doesn't make it cool. If anything it makes it worse.
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In CSD's defense, the MSM and affiliated lefty scum have a pretty poor record of picking incidents as vehicles to push The Narrative(1). In the absence of any information other than the lefties are pushing it hard, assuming BPD did nothing wrong--or that it was not a white guy doing the wrong--is a good way to bet.
In this incident, we don't know yet. I surely don't. But, put a gun to my head and make me choose and I'd say that the reality will monkey-wrench The Narrative in one way or another:
1. Gary was previously injured.
2. Gray hurt himself.
3. Gray was hurt by another prisoner.
4. Gray was given a beat-down by black BPD officers.
5. Driver of van Gray rode in who decided to "tenderize" him before tossing him in jail was black.
I bet it will eventually come out. If it comes out against The Narrative, the MSM will drop it.
(1) The Narrative being that racist whites deliberately killing innocent black men all wily-nilly.
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So the reports out this morning say that the van wasn't driven erratically, and that Gray may have injured himself buy thrashing himself around inside the van. Is that even possible? Can someone give himself a fatal neck injury by running himself into the wall?
I'm trying to puzzle this out. The timeline is that Gray was arrested, then put in the van, then found inside the van in need of medical attention.
That leaves only 3 possibilities: the injuries were preexisting before the arrest, or the injuries occurred during the arrest, or the injuries occurred inside the van. There's no possibility that the injuries happened after the van ride, right?
I'm no medical expert, but aren't serious spinal injuries usually pretty obvious and immediate? Wouldn't it have been apparent if he had received a serious spinal injury during the arrest? Or if he'd had one before the arrest started?
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Have you ever seen resisting folk taken down or taken someone down your own self? It can be quite...vigorous. If someone has a pre-existing injury, it can easily be exacerbated by perfectly legal and reasonable methods. If one is injured, it is wise not to resist.
Hell, anyone who has played contact sports could figure out that much.
ave you ever seen the part of my post where I address resisting arrest?
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You can definitely hurt yourself if you want to. Normal folks have a hard time wrapping their minds around the idea. Saw a guy off himself by throwing himself head first into the lil stainless steel toilet in a jail cell. Well heard it more than saw it. He jumped off top bunk head first . Took three try's to get it right
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It gets more interesting if all this is true
http://thefourthestate.co/2015/04/breaking-freddy-gray-had-spine-surgery-just-one-week-before-arrest/
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This story has been to proven to be untrue. CS&D's attempt to absolve the BPD fails for lack of evidence/proof.
Tried to follow that link. Couldn't get past the "Cops lives matter" Tee shirts and "Support Local LEO" bumper sticker ads.
Edit to add:
What the actual *expletive deleted*ck?!
Instead of debating viewpoints and showing proof or factually discrediting bad info, Mods are now just going in and editing user posts to fit their own agenda?
This whole culture of police brutality is sick,
Protecting cops via the thin blue line is sick,
Editing posts to promote a personal agenda is sick, too.
Now, Mr Scout26, convince me that MicroBalrog was wrong.
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I think Scout stepped on his own dick. Happens to all of us occasionally -- the ladies excepted, of course. I try not to make a habit of it (ouch)
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Since this thread started with giving us the background of the victim/suspect. Let's see some of the officers background. Most likely has little to zero to do with the current incident, just like Mr Gray's past has little to zero to do with his arrest and death. But. It's interesting reading.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/police-officer-in-freddie-gray-arrest-once-hospitalized-over-mental-health/
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I would like to thank everyone for pointing out the errors of my ways. I would also like to apologize to CS&D and ask his forgiveness. I have removed the edits and the offending post.
I would also like to apologize to all the members of APS. It seems I forgot what the "P" stood for.
I offer no excuses, nor justifications. I was wrong.
As such, effective immediately, I will be banned from APS for the next ten days. If the other mods feel this is insuffucient, I will accept whatever decisions they make, and simply ask to be notified via e-mail of any decision(s)/action(s) they choose to take.
Again, CS&D, I am truly sorry. And to the members of APS, I regret and apologize for failing you.
-Scout26
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Scout, we appreciate you stepping up and admitting the mistake. As mods, we are supposed to set an example, but as any member, we sometimes fail to do so and have bad days. We are also subject to the same actions as regular members - no more, no less.
We'll go with five days off. As the software doesn't allow mod banning, it's on the honor system. Go out and enjoy time away from APS (and heck, the interwebz in general) and spend time with your son. We'll see you back here next Wednesday.
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The autopsy is currently being reported that he has a wound that matches a bolt in the police vehicle. (Van? Bus? Paddywagon?)
So, looks like the arresting officers are not implicated, except for failing to buckle him in (Aside: if you have a non-cooperative suspect, how do you do that? It's tough enough buckling in a non-cooperative 3 year old.)
If that is true it seems the options are: Simple negligence combined a freak accident within the van, purposely rough ride, or trying to errr... succeeding in injuring himself?
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They sure no one was in there with him giving him wall to wall counseling?
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They sure no one was in there with him giving him wall to wall counseling?
Ah, a possibility I did not consider.
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They sure no one was in there with him giving him wall to wall counseling?
QFT. Seems that Baltimore PD already has a history of using the confines of these vans for prisoner abuse and has settled a few cases already.
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/police-officer-in-freddie-gray-arrest-once-hospitalized-over-mental-health/
So, we've got a guy who sees God only knows what on a daily basis, may well have had a relationship failing around that time, and has a generally high stress job, and we're concerned that at one point three years ago he got some help keeping it all together? I've been the first arrival at a couple of wrecks that gave me nightmares for weeks, and this is a guy who makes a living being first on at every wreck in his area.
One thing I learned from working in a mental health facility is that it's usually not the ones who admit they have a problem and want help with it that you've got to worry about. If he was still receiving regular treatment after three years, I'd be more interested, but I've seen a lot of people who had a rough month/year/whatever, owned their problems, got them taken care of, and were better off than any who manage to keep them suppressed.
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Since this thread started with giving us the background of the victim/suspect. Let's see some of the officers background. Most likely has little to zero to do with the current incident, just like Mr Gray's past has little to zero to do with his arrest and death. But. It's interesting reading.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/police-officer-in-freddie-gray-arrest-once-hospitalized-over-mental-health/
See, this is why if I ever thought I needed such treatment I would do so via cash, pseudonymously.
Not so hot on having any mental health benefits as part of med insurance as a result.
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They sure no one was in there with him giving him wall to wall counseling?
That actually fits with the story about another prisoner saying he heard Freddy trying to kill himself!
Perhaps why they backed-off of that story.
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Baltimore's State Attorney has issued arrest warrants for the officers involved in the Freddy Gray arrest and transportation.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/)
The officers and charges in the case include:
- Police Officer Caesar Goodson,was charged with second-degree depraved-heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree negligent assault, as well as other charges including failure to render aid and misconduct in office.
- Police Officer William Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police Lt. Brian Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault.
- Police Officer Alicia White was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller were charged with multiple counts of assault, false imprisonment and misconduct in office.
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Baltimore's State Attorney has issued arrest warrants for the officers involved in the Freddy Gray arrest and transportation.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/)
The officers and charges in the case include:
- Police Officer Caesar Goodson,was charged with second-degree depraved-heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree negligent assault, as well as other charges including failure to render aid and misconduct in office.
- Police Officer William Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police Lt. Brian Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault.
- Police Officer Alicia White was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller were charged with multiple counts of assault, false imprisonment and misconduct in office.
Outstanding. Run the through them court system like any non badge wearing citizen would be. I really like the "false imprisonment" charge.
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I had to look up what a "depraved-heart murder" was.
Good.
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I had to look up what a "depraved-heart murder" was.
Good.
Had to look it up as well. It is apt in this case.
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I had to look up what a "depraved-heart murder" was.
Good.
Hopefully it means life in prison, no parole.
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Baltimore's State Attorney has issued arrest warrants for the officers involved in the Freddy Gray arrest and transportation.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/)
The officers and charges in the case include:
- Police Officer Caesar Goodson,was charged with second-degree depraved-heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree negligent assault, as well as other charges including failure to render aid and misconduct in office.
- Police Officer William Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police Lt. Brian Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault.
- Police Officer Alicia White was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller were charged with multiple counts of assault, false imprisonment and misconduct in office.
Given CSD's take on the recent back surgery, along with a lot of black shootings that turned out to be 180 degrees different than the MSM's narrative when the facts came out, I have to wonder if this charge by the State Attorney isn't heavily politically motivated.....
At any rate, I wouldn't want to be a cop in any city over the size of 50,000, because almost all of them are run by liberals who hate the police to start with.
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Baltimore's State Attorney has issued arrest warrants for the officers involved in the Freddy Gray arrest and transportation.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/)
The officers and charges in the case include:
- Police Officer Caesar Goodson,was charged with second-degree depraved-heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree negligent assault, as well as other charges including failure to render aid and misconduct in office.
- Police Officer William Porter was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police Lt. Brian Rice was charged with involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault.
- Police Officer Alicia White was charged with involuntary manslaughter, second degree assault and misconduct in office.
- Police officers Edward Nero and Garrett Miller were charged with multiple counts of assault, false imprisonment and misconduct in office.
My first thought was they are clearly over-charging in a politically motivated prosecution.
But then I reflected that's not much different than over-charging and hoping to force a plea bargain.
We need to do something about charges not being appropriate to the crime. But, I guess sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.
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My first thought was they are clearly over-charging in a politically motivated prosecution.
But then I reflected that's not much different than over-charging and hoping to force a plea bargain.
We need to do something about charges not being appropriate to the crime. But, I guess sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.
No we don't. They do it to non badge wearing folks all the time. A message needs to be sent. And I am hopeful this is the start of it. We have this, the SC officer being arrested, and the "I thought my gun was a taser" idiot in Oklahoma who is facing charges. It's s start. Not anywhere near where I'd like to see it. But it will do for now
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Given CSD's take on the recent back surgery, along with a lot of black shootings that turned out to be 180 degrees different than the MSM's narrative when the facts came out, I have to wonder if this charge by the State Attorney isn't heavily politically motivated.....
At any rate, I wouldn't want to be a cop in any city over the size of 50,000, because almost all of them are run by liberals who hate the police to start with.
Last I heard the back injury pre existing was bogus
The da is married to a council man. The one on the news telling the police to back off the rioters and spouting the usual it's because of the poor life they are stuck with its someone else's fault
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I think they charge heavy to encourage one or more cops to flip on the others. In this case with so many players it's gonna be difficult to pin on one person. Everyone will say it was someone else. I was surprised that the buckle em in thing was so new.
The other prisoner has given an interview that is much less definitive than police statement.
Lots of interesting things. If gray was having trouble breathing in the beginning he was certainly yelling pretty well. I know I can't if I am having an episode. And the banging the other prisoner now describes could a ,been gray thrashing in extremis. He says he didn't even know there was anyone else in wagon st first
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I think they charge heavy to encourage one or more cops to flip on the others. In this case with so many players it's gonna be difficult to pin on one person. Everyone will say it was someone else. I was surprised that the buckle em in thing was so new.
The other prisoner has given an interview that is much less definitive than police statement.
Lots of interesting things. If gray was having trouble breathing in the beginning he was certainly yelling pretty well. I know I can't if I am having an episode. And the banging the other prisoner now describes could a ,been gray thrashing in extremis. He says he didn't even know there was anyone else in wagon st first
I think they are trying to get one of the cops to rat-out who was in the back with Gray roughing him up, if that's what happened.
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Freddie Gray was a small-time criminal. I'd have to ask the cops involved if they really thought he was worth it.
On the flip side, Gray managed to take 6 (so far) dirty cops off the street. He probably accomplished more in his death that the sum of his life. RIP Freddie.
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Interesting and more interesting
Here's his warrant
At least we know why he ran
http://100percentfedup.com/states-attorney-lied-baltimore-police-had-probable-cause-due-to-a-warrant-for-grays-arrest/
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Interesting and more interesting
Here's his warrant
At least we know why he ran
http://100percentfedup.com/states-attorney-lied-baltimore-police-had-probable-cause-due-to-a-warrant-for-grays-arrest/
I looked up the warrant from the case number (I don't see a good way to post an image or a direct link here). The case is closed and he was released on 3/18:
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/casesearch/inquiryByCaseNum.jis the number is 1B02290044
ETA: the case is closed because he's dead. But the warrant was issued on 3/13 and he was released on bail on the 3/18, so the warrant was satisfied; not a reason to arrest him.
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You did better than I did I can't even find a case newer than 2012
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Wow, those are some heavy charges. I hope the prosecutor has more evidence than has been released publicly. Those charges aren't justified by the evidence we've seen so far.
I'm suspicious. What do we know about this prosecutor?
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Wow, those are some heavy charges. I hope the prosecutor has more evidence than has been released publicly. Those charges aren't justified by the evidence we've seen so far.
I'm suspicious. What do we know about this prosecutor?
He shouldn't have been stopped or arrested in the first place. Everything subsequent to that is all on the police. If they had not seized him, none of this woukd have happened.
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He shouldn't have been stopped or arrested in the first place. Everything subsequent to that is all on the police. If they had not seized him, none of this woukd have happened.
True, but does THAT justify all the charges being levied against them?
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True, but does THAT justify all the charges being levied against them?
IMO, yes. Let the court decide the outcome.
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I'm suspicious. What do we know about this prosecutor?
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/01/baltimore-state-attorney-files-charges-against-six-officers-including-murder-and-manslaughter/
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/01/baltimore-state-attorney-marilyn-mosby-is-presenting-a-potemkin-village-to-a-racial-audience/
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IMO, yes. Let the court decide the outcome.
Then you'd replace police abuse of power with prosecutorial abuse of power. Justice isn't served by either one.
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No we don't. They do it to non badge wearing folks all the time. A message needs to be sent. And I am hopeful this is the start of it. We have this, the SC officer being arrested, and the "I thought my gun was a taser" idiot in Oklahoma who is facing charges. It's s start. Not anywhere near where I'd like to see it. But it will do for now
That little curfluffle is starting to grow legs, and tentacles and follicles. .. The true nature of the Tulsa County sheriff's "good ole boy" network is on the verge of becoming public knowledge and it ain't gonna be pretty. TCSO and Tulsa city haven't always had the best relationship and this may beak some eggs.
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I would like to thank everyone for pointing out the errors of my ways. I would also like to apologize to CS&D and ask his forgiveness. I have removed the edits and the offending post.
I would also like to apologize to all the members of APS. It seems I forgot what the "P" stood for.
I offer no excuses, nor justifications. I was wrong.
As such, effective immediately, I will be banned from APS for the next ten days. If the other mods feel this is insuffucient, I will accept whatever decisions they make, and simply ask to be notified via e-mail of any decision(s)/action(s) they choose to take.
Again, CS&D, I am truly sorry. And to the members of APS, I regret and apologize for failing you.
-Scout26
Very magnanimous of you Scout! C@sd soen't say a lot but when he does it;s usually pretty relevant.
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http://time.com/3843870/marilyn-mosby-transcript-freddie-gray/
Transcript of the prosecutor's speech today. Long but interesting. It lays out her justification for the charges. It's all based on the premise that the police should have requested s medic for Gray and did not.
Info on Grays death is conspicuously absent. We know what killed Gray (broken neck), but not when it happened, or where it happened, or how it happened, or why it happened, or who made it happen.
And do read the prosecutor's closing at the end of the transcript. She's clearly playing politics here. She's pandering to the mob, not seeking justice.
On net, I'm not convinced she's any better than your average dirty cop. Probably worse, because she has more raw political power and she knows how to use it. I bet she can do far more damage than any cop.
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He shouldn't have been stopped or arrested in the first place. Everything subsequent to that is all on the police. If they had not seized him, none of this woukd have happened.
Supreme Court disagrees with you some time ago that flight in a high crime area constitutes a probable cause
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Here's a legal analysis about the charges
http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/01/law-professor-baltimore-officers-were-overcharged-charges-will-likely-be-dismissed/
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And the Supreme Court ruling the flight does establish a reasonable suspicion thereby allowing stop and search
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/98-1036.ZO.html
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Now charged the case will get less attention than it deserves. I say this due to the not quite all whitey oppressor nature of the mugshots. And it needs attention based on the number of people already produced who were permanently injured or sued the city over practices the same as alleged to have happened in this case.
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So how does all this discussion of RAS/PC or not, and overcharging, jibe with the talk about the overcharging being purposefull in order to encourage one or more to turn state's evidence in exchange for the usual deal(s)?
stay safe.
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http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/01/baltimore-state-attorney-files-charges-against-six-officers-including-murder-and-manslaughter/
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/01/baltimore-state-attorney-marilyn-mosby-is-presenting-a-potemkin-village-to-a-racial-audience/
So the mosbys are race pimps? Color me shocked ;/
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Bmore has issues the link to the "speech" is painful
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/02/baltimore-rally-burn-down-stores-to-get-them-out-of-our-communities/
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Bmore has issues the link to the "speech" is painful
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/02/baltimore-rally-burn-down-stores-to-get-them-out-of-our-communities/
I wonder what they aregoing to do for food and medicine once they burn or intimidate their pharmacies/food stores into closing?
About the only entrepreneurial drive in those people is selling illegal narcotics
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I wonder what they aregoing to do for food and medicine once they burn or intimidate their pharmacies/food stores into closing?
About the only entrepreneurial drive in those people is selling illegal narcotics
Two possibilities come to mind, the government trucking in food and such or the government relocating these *expletive deleted*s elsewhere ala Katrina.
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Bmore has issues the link to the "speech" is painful
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/02/baltimore-rally-burn-down-stores-to-get-them-out-of-our-communities/
Apparently, Brother Rose feels that the stores should be doing more than offering jobs and selling products.
“Without us running (unintelligible) Mondawmin Mall [the site of mass looting on Monday], taking back from the stores that have taken our dollars for how long, and not giving back to the community in any type of way.
Strangely, I had been under the impression that the way stores "gave back" was by paying dividends to investors.
stay safe.
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I wonder what they aregoing to do for food and medicine once they burn or intimidate their pharmacies/food stores into closing?
About the only entrepreneurial drive in those people is selling illegal narcotics
Those stores likely won't be back
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert
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According to the MD Governor, about 200 businesses were destroyed Monday night, with the majority of them minority owned.
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According to the MD Governor, about 200 businesses were destroyed Monday night, with the majority of them minority owned.
Minorities burning down stores owned by minorities - not quite "Getting Back At The Manâ„¢".
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Minorities burning down stores owned by minorities - not quite "Getting Back At The Manâ„¢".
It's not nor has it ever been about that. Urban feral youths without regard for other people's life, property or livelyhood jump at the chance to riot, loot, and savage those around them. The modern inner city is a pit of hopeless despair, where behavior and civilization is de-evolving.
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I think he's a young entrepreneur trying to follow a successful business plan the Al Sharpton plan someone is going to have to take over extorting from businesses when al retires
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I wonder what they aregoing to do for food and medicine once they burn or intimidate their pharmacies/food stores into closing?
About the only entrepreneurial drive in those people is selling illegal narcotics
I've been hearing that most of the protestors aren't actually from where they're protesting. IE they're not actually shitting on their own lawn.
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I've been hearing that most of the protestors aren't actually from where they're protesting. IE they're not actually shitting on their own lawn.
Protesters, and probably some of the agitators. But I bet the majority of looters are local.
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I thought that was the case in Ferguson. Most of the troublemakers were shipped in to fan the flames with a few locals joining.
Since the police have again pretty much allowed rioting to occurr, it is an open invitation to any troublmakers in the country to come on down.
The question to me is: How many were paid to go there and stir it up versus just there to cause trouble?
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Most cities are run by progressives who support the efforts of the protestors and rioters, either covertly or overtly.
The ludicrous thing is that the indicted officers are a mix of 4 white and 2 black, and apparently Baltimore PD has a history of giving rough rides to people of all ethnicities.
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True, but does THAT justify all the charges being levied against them?
If the arrest was illegal, then everything that happens after that is on them.
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Minorities burning down stores owned by minorities - not quite "Getting Back At The Manâ„¢".
Please note that I am not advocating this in any way.
I'll take there "black lives matter FTP" shtick seriously when there is a large scale organized Chris Dorner movement. Until then it's just criminals looking for a chance to steal and burn stuff.
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If the arrest was illegal, then everything that happens after that is on them.
OK, but what I am actually getting at is what proof is there of what any particular officer did?
Some of the charges seem excessive.
Keep one thing in mind -- we don't really know, really, a good narrative of how Mr. Grey's cervical spine was broken. We only have inferences and such. One "talking-head resident doctor expert" on Fox Snews stated that had Grey been trying to self-induce a wound by bashing his head against the inside of the vehicle, he could have done some nasty stuff but not broken his neck. Some other alleged authorities appear to disagree with this.
Who was the ACTUAL OFFICER who mangled the deceased's neck? No one seems to know....or even have an idea where in the timeline the incident happened.
The speed of this .... "investigation" also seems a little odd. What is happening seemed more geared to suppressing more violence and rioting than anything.
Now, all this may change as things continue. There will be a trial, the defendants will have lawyers and their side will come out, I'm sure. We may (I hope) get a clearer idea as to the prosecution's case as things go on as well. These things may answer my questions.
I hope.
We'll see.
All I'm saying right now is that I don't quite understand what the ******* is REALLY going on with the Grey case.....
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Hopefully we will get answers to those questions and more as this plays out
The officers are culpable, the arresting officers more so than the driver. If, Jamis, Tallpine and I kidnap you off the street, with the intent just to drive you across town and let you go, then another car hits us or we hit a pothole and you break your neck....us three are culpable in your death.
If cops are going to be out there protecting and serving, it would help to actually know the law. The arrest was not lawful. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
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So PC has to be RAS which has to be beyond a reasonable doubt?
Not saying anything went right after the actual arrest*.
stay safe.
* - remember, anything which leaves you not free to go is an arrest. They can say you were merely detained if you get cut loose soon after not being free to go, but then I can call a hang glider the Spruce Goose. Saying it does not make it so.
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I've been hearing that most of the protestors aren't actually from where they're protesting. IE they're not actually shitting on their own lawn.
32 outa 35 arrested one if the first nights were local
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Ahhh b more. You get the quality of government you vote for
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/sheriff-baltimore-states-atty-marilyn-mosby-charged-wrong-people-wrong-names-wrong-addresses-of-2-officers-video/
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Ahhh b more. You get the quality of government you vote for
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/05/sheriff-baltimore-states-atty-marilyn-mosby-charged-wrong-people-wrong-names-wrong-addresses-of-2-officers-video/
That really bodes well for the defense.
It's also what happens when you rush everything to get your political charges filed.
Why do I get the feeling there will be no firings or punishments for this? (Ok, maybe a paid day off as punishment.)
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http://bigstory.ap.org/article/260567686cee4973ace02ff380e1da2e/officers-legal-attack-begins-freddie-gray-case
One of the arresting officers is suing the prosecutor to produce the knife that Gray was arrested over. Seems he disagrees with the prosecutor's assessment that the knife was legal. The charges against the arresting officers hinge upon that knife being legal.
I don't think I'd trust either side to play honest in this circumstance. How strong are the evidence handling procedures in circumstances like this?
Presuming Gray's knife was illegal, could the prosecutor swap out the real Gray knife for a phony to make her case work? Or, presuming Gray's knife was legal, could the officers make a plausible argument in court that the legal knife the prosecutor produced is not the real knife they arrested Gray for?
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If a proper chain of custody was in place for the knife it should be rather open and shut if the knife was legal or not. My guess is that the knife has disappeared so neither side can prove anything and since it is up to the prosecution to prove guilt, if there is no knife, you can't prove it was legal.
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http://bigstory.ap.org/article/260567686cee4973ace02ff380e1da2e/officers-legal-attack-begins-freddie-gray-case
One of the arresting officers is suing the prosecutor to produce the knife that Gray was arrested over. Seems he disagrees with the prosecutor's assessment that the knife was legal. The charges against the arresting officers hinge upon that knife being legal.
I don't think I'd trust either side to play honest in this circumstance. How strong are the evidence handling procedures in circumstances like this?
Presuming Gray's knife was illegal, could the prosecutor swap out the real Gray knife for a phony to make her case work? Or, presuming Gray's knife was legal, could the officers make a plausible argument in court that the legal knife the prosecutor produced is not the real knife they arrested Gray for?
Since they didn't find the knife until after Gray was arrested, it seems that the initial arrest wasn't legal and would invalidate their finding the knife later.
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Since they didn't find the knife until after Gray was arrested, it seems that the initial arrest wasn't legal and would invalidate their finding the knife later.
I believe Gray was detained after being caught after running from the police. The finding of the knife during the pat down is what warranted the arrest.
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I heard an interview of a BDP officer who said Gray was seen making a drug deal, then ran from the cops once he realized he'd been seen. If true, that's plenty of probably cause.
If true... If this... If that...
It's frustrating that we just don't know anything about this case. Even the stuff we thought we knew (such as Gray being found with an illegal switchblade) turns out to be untrue (per the prosecutor) and then maybe true after all (per the arresting officer's lawsuit to shine some light on that knife).
People sure do have opinions, though.
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Just running from the cops in a high crime area is probable cause for the stop according to the Supreme Court. Finding the knife is incidental to that stop
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Just running from the cops in a high crime area is probable cause for the stop according to the Supreme Court. Finding the knife is incidental to that stop
Minor correction: Reasonable articulable suspicion (enough for a Terry stop), not probable cause.
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From the little I have heard, the charges against the cops appear to be overreaching by quite a bit. The prosecutor's husband is a city councilman. It is highly likely the charges are what they are due to politics of one kind or another.
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From the little I have heard, the charges against the cops appear to be overreaching by quite a bit. The prosecutor's husband is a city councilman. It is highly likely the charges are what they are due to politics of one kind or another.
The charges certainly seem excessive, but there's lots of speculation about the reasons for it:
She's playing politics to help her husband who's part of the local Baltimore leadership
She's trying to inflame the mob
She's trying to mollify the mob
She has political connections to the Gray family or their attorney
She wants her 15 minutes of fame
She wants to launch a wider political career
She's just plain incompetent
She's trying to get the case moved out of town so she doesn't get burned if it fails
She's wants a judge to reduce the charges rather than take the blame for doing it herself
She's under political pressure from the Baltimore mayor, or her husband, or the Justice Brothers, or Washington DC, or the media, etc
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The charges certainly seem excessive, but there's lots of speculation about the reasons for it:
She's playing politics to help her husband who's part of the local Baltimore leadership
She's trying to inflame the mob
She's trying to mollify the mob
She has political connections to the Gray family or their attorney
She wants her 15 minutes of fame
She wants to launch a wider political career
She's just plain incompetent
She's trying to get the case moved out of town so she doesn't get burned if it fails
She's wants a judge to reduce the charges rather than take the blame for doing it herself
She's under political pressure from the Baltimore mayor, or her husband, or the Justice Brothers, or Washington DC, or the media, etc
All of the above, most likely, plus: She's an idiot.
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All of the above, most likely, plus: She's an idiot.
I doubt that; she does seem to form a few complete sentences, which would imply that she's at least an imbecile.
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I doubt that; she does seem to form a few complete sentences, which would imply that she's at least an imbecile.
Yep. Let's jaw jack about an idiot DA (no argument there) and not try to figure out how someone's spine was broke.
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Crazy as it sounds i am wondering if he did hurt himself looking for a new check. This is a guy who was hard up enough for cash he was gonna give peachtree 180 k in exchange for 18 k.
Both are incredibly stupid moves but freddy was no genius nor was he a rookie at playing the game. He faked his hurt leg pretty convincingly
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Crazy as it sounds i am wondering if he did hurt himself looking for a new check. This is a guy who was hard up enough for cash he was gonna give peachtree 180 k in exchange for 18 k.
Both are incredibly stupid moves but freddy was no genius nor was he a rookie at playing the game. He faked his hurt leg pretty convincingly
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That is a possibility. But with BPDs history, I just don't believe the "I broke my own spine" argument.
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Yep. Let's jaw jack about an idiot DA (no argument there) and not try to figure out how someone's spine was broke.
Got any evidence on how that broken spine might've happened? Nobody else does. The locals rushed the investigation, then declined to publish their findings. The media hasn't turned up anything solid, and we couldn't trust them even if they had. The prosecutor's been silent on how Freddie got his injury.
Wouldn't you figure if something really damning had turned up in the investigation, a smoking gun, that the prosecutor or the mayor or some reporter would have made it public? It ain't like these guys have any love for those six cops. Does it mean anything that even the corrupt and overzealous prosecutor isn't claiming that the police broke Freddie's neck?
Freddie injuring himself seems unlikely, but it might actually be the least unlikely of all the possibilities.
I don't know. It doesn't add up.
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That is a possibility. But with BPDs history, I just don't believe the "I broke my own spine" argument.
I originally thought it was a rough ride.
I am not so sure now.
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I don't know. It doesn't add up.
Agreed
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So, was there a riot for this lady?
http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/family-of-woman-dropped-on-head-by-ambulance-crew-gets/article_3c958d8b-5e5f-571d-a0b8-47b14e1efd86.html
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This lady has some points
http://theroottv.theroot.com/video/Fmr-Deputy-Baltimore-State-s-At;news-playlist
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And this article is more interesting
http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/06/claim-task-force-investigating-freddie-gray-death-came-to-different-conclusion-than-states-attorney/
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http://dailycaller.com/2015/05/03/marilyn-mosby-gave-a-fiery-speech-about-freddie-gray-days-before-police-concluded-investigation-video/
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So, what is the latest?
Does this look like a case of BPD treating Gray like a King? Or is it more like hte beginning stages of Narrative Collapse like Zimmerman, Ferguson, Tawana Brawley, etc?
These days, I have zero problem believing the worst of LEOs and the worst of the race hustlers. Where is my asteroid?
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Seems this story about the charges being unsupported by the evidence has some legs. It's still going around.
Saw this today:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/07/us-usa-police-baltimore-idUSKBN0NS1XP20150507
Lawyers for two officers have challenged a key part of Mosby's case, that a knife found on Gray was legal in Maryland and thus officers did not have a right to arrest him. The police investigation found that the knife was illegal under the city code.
So Mosby said the knife was legal under Maryland law, and the cops say it's illegal under Baltimore law.
Did Mosby step on her johnson by basing her charges on an illegal arrest without even knowing what law the arrest was made under?
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Well, she is the State's Attorney.
Amonng many other things she is.
stay safe.
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I thought 'state's attorney' was just another term for 'prosecutor'. And that Marilyn Mosby is the state's attorney for the City of Baltimore, i.e. she's Baltimore's prosecutor.
???
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I thought 'state's attorney' was just another term for 'prosecutor'. And that Marilyn Mosby is the state's attorney for the City of Baltimore, i.e. she's Baltimore's prosecutor.
???
It's a technicality. "Did __ against the peace and dignity of the State of Maryland" as oposed to the "against the peace and dignity of the City of Baltimore". Wade through thje charging documents - not a single violation of a city ordinance in there,
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/charging-documents-filed-against-baltimore-police-officers/1534/
stay safe.
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Her speech, BEFORE the investigation was complete and before the medical examiners report give one cause to wonder if she's just playing politics
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As does this
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/sun-investigates/bs-md-ci-freddie-gray-investigation-20150502-story.html#page=2
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So, Prince did a rally in Baltimore today. Marylin Mosby and her husband were brought out on stage with him. Kinda diverts further away from that whole "impartiality" thing.
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Any new newsworthy news on this news story?
http://news.investors.com/Blogs-Capital-Hill/052015-753642-ferguson-protesters-complain-about-not-getting-paid.htm
I just saw this amusing story. Don't know if it's true or not, but it makes me smile all the same. Apparently many of the Baltimore protestors are one and the same with many of the Ferguson protestors, i.e. they're a professionals who get bussed in wherever a riot is needed. Except they're unhappy because they aren't getting paid enough.
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http://www.wbal.com/article/115153/2/mosby-responds-to-defense-motions-in-freddie-gray-case
After seeking as much press as possible, the prosecutor wants the judge to gag the defense.
Also, the knife being illegal doesn't matter because they arrested him before finding the knife, she says.
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Apparently she never read the Supreme Court decision re fleeing in a high crime area. Or perhaps she's realizes fir her purposes , and hubby's , that doesn't matter
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Apparently she never read the Supreme Court decision re fleeing in a high crime area. Or perhaps she's realizes fir her purposes , and hubby's , that doesn't matter
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Considering she also hadn't read Baltimore's local laws on knives, that's not a stretch to believe.
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http://www.wbal.com/article/115153/2/mosby-responds-to-defense-motions-in-freddie-gray-case
After seeking as much press as possible, the prosecutor wants the judge to gag the defense.
Also, the knife being illegal doesn't matter because they arrested him before finding the knife, she says.
That's an interesting theory; also almost impossible to prove. At what point did the detention (lawful) become an arrest (perhaps not lawful), and when exactly was the knife found?
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The grand jury has a different take. All officers indicted.
http://www.wfsb.com/story/29127927/2015/05/21/officers-indicted-in-freddie-gray-death
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Zimmerman was indicted too. Long way from conviction.
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Eh, they'll probably get some convictions, just not the ones they really want.
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I think their biggest obstacle is gonna be nailing a specific cop for a specific action. Everyone can point at someone else
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I think their biggest obstacle is gonna be nailing a specific cop for a specific action. Everyone can point at someone else
You're probably right. And yet it's pretty obvious that collectively they murdered him. :mad: (I know he was a lowlife, but the cops don't get to be self-appointed executioners)
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He obviously didn't die of natural causes.
There needs to be very clear answers on how a man in police custody dies of a broken spine.
What he was arrested for past or present has little bearing on the question, how did he end up dead?
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Who was the arresting officer? Isn't that the responsible party until they find out who actually broke his neck?
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Who was the arresting officer? Isn't that the responsible party until they find out who actually broke his neck?
It's like a chain of custody, but without the documentation. As he gets handed from the lead arresting officer (there was more than one but unlike fighter pilots they do not split arrests) to the transport officer to the <insert magical functionary here> to the intake officer to the jailer each one assumes responsibility for his care and custody.
One of the reasons corrections officers make inmates they are picking up from a local jail is t document the physical condition - nicks, bruises, cuts, contusions, broken necks and the like. Jailer signs off, admitting the "inventory" was correct. Then they'd do it over again when the inmate arrived at the prison reception center. I've heard cops state that they don't have the time to go through all that. Maybe after a certain number of cops who lost their qualified immunity get both locked up and sued the rest will start thinking they might take the time.
stay safe.
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You're probably right. And yet it's pretty obvious that collectively they murdered him. :mad: (I know he was a lowlife, but the cops don't get to be self-appointed executioners)
It's not obvious at all. We don't have any idea what happened to Gray. We know the cause of death, but not who did it, or how, or when, or why, or where, or with what.
Without any evidence it's just a glorified lynch mob. Maybe the prosecutor has some of this missing evidence and isn't making it public. That's possible, but I doubt it given her fubar with the knife laws.
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He obviously didn't die of natural causes.
A broken spine is a very natural way to die. Probably even induced by organic methods. Maybe even gluten free ones.