Post by: Chris on May 19, 2005, 05:21:15 AM
I know there are others out there. Some of you may have seen the film by now. All I ask is, did it live up to your hopes/expectations? Anyone disappointed?
Please let me know, so I can try to adjust my expectations.
Post by: Sean Smith on May 19, 2005, 06:35:46 AM
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_3/
114 out of 137 (83%) positive reviews. The first two prequels were in the low 60% range.
For comparison sake, the original SW was 93%, TESB was 98%, and ROTJ was 80% on the Tomatometer.
Consensus seems to be alot better than the previous 2, not as good as the best of the old movies, but alot closer.
Post by: Dave Markowitz on May 19, 2005, 07:43:21 AM
In short: Go see it!
Post by: Warbow on May 19, 2005, 09:08:04 AM
Post by: Typhoon on May 19, 2005, 01:59:32 PM
So I had an off-site meeting this afternoon. I got in the car and on the radio was Dr. Laura Schlessinger. (FYI - Although I have agreed with her at times, I do not approve of pop-radio psychologists - too simplistic...)
Anyway, she railed on this particular Star Wars segment.
Huh??? If I recall correctly, there was quite a bit of blowing up of stuff and shooting up of people and general carnage in all the movies. Although I have not yet seen "Revenge of the Sith", I read the script (or, whatever closest manifestation that happened to be on the Internet at the time). The series is called, "STAR WARS!" Not "STAR CALMLY SIT DOWN AND DISCUSS YOUR DIFFERENCES."
I was amazed at the vitriol expressed by the good "doctor." I mean really...what do you expect? The story is about how a formerly good kid descends into evil. How might one expect this evil to manifest itself? Harsh language? Robbing Girl Scout cookie stands? Oh, and, by the way, the movie got a PG-13 rating for a reason. What ever happened to the notion of parents being responsible for screening the things their kids see? To her credit, Laura paid some lip service to that particular idea, but dang!
On the other hand, a huge portion of George Lucas' estate comes from the merchandising rights from the Star Wars franchise, which he owns exclusively. Most adults don't collect action figures or care if Darth Vader pitches Burger King food. ("Revenge of the Merchandisers.") Kids, however, do. All the same, crass materialism aside, I did find her reaction to be a tad over the top.
Better yet was the article in the Los Angeles Times this Sunday. It presents the idea that the Sith movie may just be an allegory to the "potential death of democracy in the United States" as manifested by the "baseless war in Iraq" (my quotes.) http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/cl-et-starwars16may16,0,4708228.story
Here's another good one: http://www.calendarlive.com/books/cl-et-starwars18may18,0,4457530.story
What nonsense!!!
Post by: Mulliga on May 19, 2005, 02:13:11 PM
The dialogue is still laughably wooden.
The constant CGI still gets really annoying after awhile.
The fighting sequences weren't as good as I'd hoped (especially "The Duel").
Just my opinion.
Post by: Antibubba on May 19, 2005, 07:21:52 PM
Post by: thorn on May 19, 2005, 08:24:50 PM
i liked ep. 2 , 1 was not so great. seems like this is a GREAT one
Post by: Sean Smith on May 20, 2005, 02:44:08 AM
Post by: Risasi on May 20, 2005, 06:54:55 AM
Michael Mann is my daddy now...
Post by: bobs1066 on May 20, 2005, 04:59:16 PM
So, is Obi-Wan a Sith or is he just full of wild blueberry muffins?
Post by: Nightfall on May 23, 2005, 11:19:06 AM
The script, special effects, and acting are better than the first two prequels (I was pretty bored by the first, enjoyed the second more though). This one stirred emotions and stimulated the mind, which is the hallmark of a great film, IMHO. Easily the darkest Star Wars by a good margin. Awesome film.
Post by: jefnvk on May 23, 2005, 11:36:59 AM
When people sit around for 30 (20? Can't remember) years building up the next movie in their minds, it isn't going to live to their expectations. Doesn't keep them from being good movies, but they just don't live to expectations.
Post by: cordex on May 23, 2005, 12:32:34 PM
Considering the first two as movies in their own right - distinct from the series - I still think they were awful. The acting was awful, the story boring and the dialog mind numbing. I mean seriously ...
"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft and smooth."
Are you kidding me?
I think that if they hadn't had the name to prop them up they would have flopped completely.
Post by: javafiend on May 23, 2005, 12:36:45 PM
"The Empire Strikes Back" (directed by Irvin Kershner) was my favorite.
Post by: javafiend on May 23, 2005, 07:22:04 PM
"You are either with me or you are my enemy." Darth Vader
"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." George Bush
I have a funny pic that I wish I could post.
Post by: jefnvk on May 24, 2005, 04:24:12 AM
Post by: Skunkabilly on May 24, 2005, 06:15:32 AM
It's not like we don't already know the ending!
Post by: armedcitizen on May 24, 2005, 06:31:40 AM
Post by: tyme on May 24, 2005, 07:45:22 PM
The dialog in the second and third episodes (I still haven't watched much of episode 1) was stilted and terse to make room for the repetitive, completely unrealistic (even within the Star Wars mythology) battles and special effects. The powers the Jedi display are inconsistent throughout the newer trilogy. The behavior of the Jedi is also ridiculous. Why would they act as one-man armies?
This new trilogy has blackened the Jedi concept as I hope Lucas originally envisioned it. If the Jedi were as unwise as they are in this latest episode, they deserved extermination for claiming any authority whatsoever. I'm not sure what authority they do have, other than being VIPs within the Republic and being immune from the laws. Part of the point of an allegory is that it has to be realistic. Give all of the Jedi a mummy wrap, change light sabers to foils... then would anyone take it as something more than a comedy?
It is irrelevant whether Lucas tweaked the script to be more salient in this era, or whether it remained true to his original vision in which case this is a case of life immitating art immitating life. There is a fair amount of shallow political commentary.
Padme: Have you ever considered that we may be on the wrong side?
Anakin: What do you mean?
Padme: What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists, and the Republic has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?
Anakin: I don't believe that, and you're sounding like a separatist.
Padme: This war represents a failure to listen.
Palpatine: Remember back to your early teachings. All who gain power are afraid to lose it, even the Jedi.
Anakin: The Jedi use their power for good.
Palpatine: "Good" is a point of view, Anakin. The Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power.
Anakin: The Sith rely on their passion for their strength. They think inwards, only about themselves.
Palpatine: And the Jedi don't?
Anakin: The Jedi are selfless. They only care about others.
Windu: The Jedi Council would have to take control of the Senate in order to secure a peaceful transition.
Yoda: To a dark place this line of thought will carry us. Mmmm.. great care we must take.
Windu: He has control of the Senate and the Courts. He is too dangerous to be left alive.
Emperor: In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the First Galactic Empire for a safe and secure society.
Padme: So this is how liberty dies: with thunderous applause.
Vader: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.
Obi-wan: Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Vader: I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over.
Obi-wan: Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!
Vader: From my point of view, the Jedi are evil.
Obi-wan: You are lost!
...and some humor...
Palpatine: I have waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend.
Post by: Typhoon on May 25, 2005, 08:35:08 AM
So be it. I think I can handle one ticket to further enrich Mr. Lucas&I have identified the 8:40 am showing at the Westwood Mann Village theatre on Friday as the place and time to conclude my Star Wars experience. (I do love being an independent consultant...) All the goodies will be there (digital projection, THX, huge screen, and hopefully fewer people who have not yet mastered the difficult practice of sitting down and shutting up and generally not being rude jerks ) so well see.
May the Force be with you.
Post by: Sean Smith on May 26, 2005, 05:14:59 AM
I really liked the original trilogy, though the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi were annoying. I thought Episode I sucked outright, and Episode II was better, but was still pretty mediocre.
Episode III was alot better. Not up to the old movies, but alot better and at least in the same ballpark in terms of all-around quality as the old movies.
For one thing, Episode III has more events happen to more people that are more significant to the overall story than the previous two movies combined. So it starts with the potential to be alot more interesting. I'll go as far as to say that Episode III shows Episodes I & II to be almost totally unnecessary to telling the Annakin/Vader story.
Annakin and Obi-Wan actually seem like they were buddies at the beginning. The big opening action scene with them reminds you of the fun factor of the old Star Wars action scenes. There are some good one-liners here, too, and the little bits of "situational" humor work better.
Palpatine was just alot of fun to watch, he was such a subtle evil weasel when pretending to be a good guy, and when he comes out in the open, he is a COMPLETELY over-the-top maniac. You could make a GOOD argument that this was way overdone, but it was still fun to watch.
Annakin is improved quite a bit, Padme is still basically furniture with boobs. Obi-Wan is ALOT better, I'd say Ewan McGregor pretty much nails the character this time. Mace Windu coasts mostly on resudial Samuel L. Jackson bad-ass fumes, but is still OK. The CGI is alot better in this fim, but is overused and sometimes headache-inducing even on DLP.
No Jar-Jar at all, no bad child actors, less bad romance, less bitchiness and more evil from the future Vader, no C3P0 bad pun/slapstick "humor."
My overall ranking:
Star Wars: A
Empire Strikes Back: A
Return of the Jedi: B+
The Phantom Menace: C-
Attack of the Clones: C+
Revenge of the Sith: B
Post by: Antibubba on May 27, 2005, 06:58:21 AM
Post by: larry_minn on May 27, 2005, 07:13:02 AM
I would not pay $6 to see it. The script at times was rather lame.
SPOILER the death of Paduma (sp) reminded me of Independence day the Presidents wifes death. Her acting up till then had been poor but her death.... Of course they could have helped her a lot. Such as some of the moniters flashing/the droid saying (we are loosing her) ANY action to reinforce she is dying (not falling asleep) Would have helped. Some of the fights did go on too long. Wife fell asleep second time and I took a bathroom break during one and still going on when I got back.
OK they wiped C3 PO's mind but NOT R2 D2? Wouldn't he tell 3PO? Why didn't Kenobie remember R2 D2 in ORIGINAL Star Wars?
MY biggest question. COULD Samual L Jackson's character have killed the Dark Lord if Anikin had not interfered? Or was Dark Lord just playing with him to get Anikin? Dark Vader was a idiot. He was lied to again and again by Dark Lord and still believes he will save his gal.
The clone turnaround was nicely done. It was a good movie just not great.
To be fair we expect PERFECTION from Lucas. Or at least to have our emotions pulled/feeling for actors. The clone turnaround was only scene.
Post by: SouthpawShootr on May 29, 2005, 05:23:12 PM
Post by: S. Williamson on May 29, 2005, 11:00:55 PM
That said, it's nice to know it's over. It wasn't really that bad.
Post by: RevDisk on May 29, 2005, 11:38:12 PM
Edit : Boy did I get some nasty looks when I was cheering while the Jedi were getting mowed down.
Post by: Sean Smith on May 30, 2005, 03:26:53 AM
Quote from: RevDisk
Edit : Boy did I get some nasty looks when I was cheering while the Jedi were getting mowed down.
Maybe because it is rude as hell to talk in any movie?
Post by: mtnbkr on May 30, 2005, 05:33:26 AM
Quote
The prophecy is about bringing balance to the force?
He did bring balance to the Force. Both in the way you describe or at the end of ROTJ when he kills Palpatine. The prophesy did not say WHEN he'd bring balance.I think the main reason the last three (ep 1-3) aren't considered as good as the first three (ep 4-6) is because we watched the original trilogy as kids, through kids' eyes. We're watching the 2nd trilogy as adults with adult tastes.
Chris
Post by: Iapetus on May 30, 2005, 06:20:40 AM
Quote from: Blackburn
I have this mental image of Darth Vader wearing a shirt saying I AM A METAPHOR FOR GEORGE BUSH and Lucas saying 'Is there any way I can make it more obvious?'
The Spectator recently reviewed the film, including this comment:Quote
"I have brought peace, feedom, justice, security to my new empire," he cackles, trying to sound like one pithed Sith. "If you are not with me, you are my enemy." Uh-oh. Anakin seems to be transmogrifying into Darth W. Bush.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes," scoffs Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Oh, put a light-sabre in it, will you? The allegedly anti-Bush "subtext" has won Lucas the unlikely approval of the Cannes Film Festival crowd, but honestly: how desparate do you have to be to applaud mockery of Bush for seeing things in black and white from a guy who's spent 28 years peddling a fairytale so basic the good guys and the bad guys are called the Good Side and the Dark Side.
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes," scoffs Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Oh, put a light-sabre in it, will you? The allegedly anti-Bush "subtext" has won Lucas the unlikely approval of the Cannes Film Festival crowd, but honestly: how desparate do you have to be to applaud mockery of Bush for seeing things in black and white from a guy who's spent 28 years peddling a fairytale so basic the good guys and the bad guys are called the Good Side and the Dark Side.
Post by: Sean Smith on May 30, 2005, 10:15:02 AM
Quote
I think the main reason the last three (ep 1-3) aren't considered as good as the first three (ep 4-6) is because we watched the original trilogy as kids, through kids' eyes. We're watching the 2nd trilogy as adults with adult tastes.
I don't know, I just watched Star Wars again on DVD, and the dialoge was a lot less stupid and stilted, and the actors alot less wooden, than in the prequels. The only thing the prequels have in their favor is special effects, and some of the CGI is still inferior to some of the better model shots.The original trilogy was fundamentally silly, but fun. There were flat spots in them here and there, but they didn't ever reach the level of monumental stupidity and bad acting of, for instance everything involving Anakin and Padme in the prequels. The Ewoks were bad, but Jar Jar makes them look like unqualified genius.
Post by: Iapetus on May 31, 2005, 01:43:41 AM
In the original Star Wars (Episode 4):
* The scrolling introduction tells us that there is an Epic Stuggle going on between an Evil Empire (who have the power to destroy planets) and the Heroic Resistance.
* Moments later, we see nervous Reble soldiers preparing to repel borders, before getting mown down by Stormtroopers. Then we see Their captain having his throat crushed by Vader.
* A little while later, we see a farmstead burnt to the ground by the Imperials, with the charred boddies of Luke's family left ldumped in the dirt.
We are left in no doubt that the Empire is both very evil, and very dangerous.
Compare Episode 1:
* The scrolling introduction tells us... that the taxation of trade routes is in dispute.
* The moment that the Trade Federation learn that the ambasadors are Jedi (I thought the Jedi were supposed to be Knights, not the armed wing of the WTO), they start panicing. These are clearly not an enemy to be particularly worried about.
* Apart from the surprise attack on the Jedi's ship, the Trade Federation hardly ever kill (or injure) anyone. They land an army on the planet without any obvious resistance, we see no battle damage in any of the Naboo cities. They apparently rounded up all the Naboo into internment camps, but there was nothing to indicate this wasn't just done by saying "Please line up here". The (relatively) primative Gungans put up more of a fight.
* And to top it all, the Trade Federation are so useless that an 8-year-old kid can fly a fighter into the hanger of their main mothership, and blow up the reactor (who designed these ships anyway?) And the Naboo are so useless that they were losing until that kid turned up.
At least Episode II had more of a plot, more serious opposition, and more critical battles. (But I thought it would have been better if the leader of the Seperatists hadn't been in league with Sideous/ Palpatine, but had actually believed in the cause. It would have been a nice irony to have the Jedi etc fighting against the proto-Rebellion on behalf of the proto-Empire. After all, if Yoda can lead proto-Stormtroopers into battle...)
Haven't seen Episode III yet.
Post by: Brad Johnson on May 31, 2005, 12:41:45 PM
That isn't to say that the SFX aren't absolutely stunning. And the pic and sound are just incredible. Unfortunately, bad acting is still bad acting, and it's tough to overcome poor writing, direction, and editing by just throwing a bunch of CG and sound at the audience.
Lucas should stick to producing. His vision is great, but his skills as a dialogue writer are laughable and his directing is only so-so. I won't even go into the editing.
Oh, and who in the heck cast Hayden Christensen? Would someone find that poor dunce and sentence him to watching every commercial ever made by Billy "Orange Oxy Kaboom Clean Glow" Mays. At least Billy boy has enough spunk to be entertaining. Kudos to Ewan McGregor, who just nails Alec Guinness, and to Ian McDiarmid for aboslutely chewing up the scenery in every frame he's in. I'm torn on Sam Jackson. I think he did a fair job, but the way he played the character I expected him to jump up at any second, pull out a Big Kahuna burger & a big chromed pistol, and start saying, "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish, and the tyranny of evil men..."
Thankfully, Jar Jar kept his annoying trap shut, or I might have had to turn around and smack the pimple factory behind me that insisted keeping up a running dialoge with his pudgy companion on every nuance, inside joke, and bit of trivia.
In the end I'll probably buy the stupid DVD so my nephew will have something to do while his Mom, Dad, and I do something only slightly more creative (sit on the patio, char mammal flesh, and drink beer). At least the Behind the Scenes should be moderately entertaining.
There. Got that off my chest. Now I'm going to go home, turn up the A/C, grab a frosty beverage, and watch a truly GOOD movie - Bubba HoTep. Or maybe UHF.
Brad
Post by: Chris on June 01, 2005, 10:35:52 AM
Overall, I was pleased. Not overwhelmed, but pleased.
Post by: Guest on June 02, 2005, 02:47:23 AM
Post by: Iapetus on June 02, 2005, 07:24:34 AM
Quote from: c_yeager
Lucas = excellent writter
Lucas = good writer?You sure?
I have a copy of the Star Wars novel, written by Lucas himself. Off hand, I can remember two particularly excrutiating sentances:
(In the Cantina)
"By the way the creature bobbed and weaved on its podal supports, Luke could tell that it had imbibed too much of whatever beverage it considered a pleasing intoxicant".
What's wrong with "The alien swayed drunkenly"?
(Obi-Wan facing Vader)
"... to him, death was just another sensation, like falling asleep or making love or touching a candle."
Making love = dying / falling asleep? That explains why he was living alone in a hut in the desert, at least.
And that's not counting all the wooden dialogue that made it into all the films.
(By the way, I saw Episode III on Monday. It was good.)
Post by: Guest on June 02, 2005, 11:48:01 PM
Post by: TarpleyG on June 05, 2005, 01:26:49 PM
Greg
Post by: Dannyboy on June 06, 2005, 05:40:11 AM
I watched the originals yesterday and I have just one question; How is it that Luke and Leia aged about 20 years while Obi-Wan added 30-40 years?
Post by: Werewolf on June 06, 2005, 06:50:23 AM
Overall - not impressed - in fact I felt ripped off having had to pay $6.50 a person to get in.
The only bright spot in my estimation was the kid who played Anakin. I thought he did a pretty good job (If he'd been a bit older he'd have made a better Aragorn than the guy who played Aragorn in the Rings Trilogy IMO). The Obi-Wan actor on the other hand just didn't have it. Stunted, emotionless hack.
What happened to Padme. They turned a beautiful, self confident young woman who ruled a world into a simpering shadow of her old self for no other reason than she was pregnant?
The pace of the movie was slow and predictable. I hated the way it hopped around in a manner that made it so discontinous as to destroy the effect. The dialogue just sounded contrived, fake to me.
There was way too much story to cram into the time alloted. It should have been two movies instead.
The other bright spot was when Padme said, "So this is how liberty dies - to thunderous applause". I know I've heard or read a comment something like that before but can't think where. Lucas may not have intended it but thoughts of the patriot act immediately popped into my head.
Revenge had great promise which will sadly go unfullfilled.
But then I though Episode I was the best of them all and actually liked the Jar-Jar character so what do I know?
Post by: Sean Smith on June 06, 2005, 06:57:04 AM
Quote from: Werewolf
The only bright spot in my estimation was the kid who played Anakin. I thought he did a pretty good job (If he'd been a bit older he'd have made a better Aragorn than the guy who played Aragorn in the Rings Trilogy IMO). The Obi-Wan actor on the other hand just didn't have it. Stunted, emotionless hack.
Funny, you said the exact OPPOSITE of what I (& everyone else I've talked to) think. The guy playing Anakin was better than the last movie, but still came across as too much of a little bitch for a Dark Lord of the Sith, and his acting in the "love" scenes was still awful. No way in HELL he could hang with Viggo Mortensen in anything. And Obi-Wan was a much better-executed character in my opinion than just about anybody else in the movie.
Post by: Dannyboy on June 06, 2005, 07:19:28 AM
Quote from: Sean Smith
The guy playing Anakin was better than the last movie, but still came across as too much of a little bitch for a Dark Lord of the Sith
That's what I though at the end of the movie when he fights Obi-Wan and he gets all pouty and yells, "I hate you!" I was thinking, man how old is he supposed to be here?
Post by: Werewolf on June 06, 2005, 02:06:22 PM
Quote
The guy playing Anakin was better than the last movie, but still came across as too much of a little bitch for a Dark Lord of the Sith...
No kidding. Because he wasn't a dark lord of the Sith.In Revenge Anakin was a conflicted young man. He had Jedi tugging on the one side and the Sith Lord tugging on the other. Toss in the fact that he was in love and all that that entails for a young man who had too much power and too little maturity and you get the Anakin of Revenge. He did an excellent job portraying the character.
The Obi-Wan character just didn't have the presence to portray one of the supposed baddest ass of the Jedi. He was emotionless most of the time and the only time he even came close to showing any at all was when he berated Anakin for failing to fullfill the prophecy. Rent the DVD (when it comes out) and close your eyes - listen - don't look. It will be obvious who's acting and who you can forget is acting.
It may be that my view is jaded because to be honest after seeing all six movies and playing both Star Wars games I've come to despise the Jedi and everything they stand for. They're a bunch of holier than thou, meddling goody two shoes with out the raw courage to stand up for their convictions.
At least the Sith are honest about what they want...
Post by: TarpleyG on June 07, 2005, 03:46:15 AM
Quote
cause to be honest after seeing all six movies and playing both Star Wars games I've come to despise the Jedi and everything they stand for. They're a bunch of holier than thou, meddling goody two shoes with out the raw courage to stand up for their convictions. smile At least the Sith are honest about what they want...
Okay then....you do know that all of this is pretend, right?Greg
Post by: Werewolf on June 07, 2005, 04:53:53 AM
Quote
Okay then....you do know that all of this is pretend, right?
Of course it is pretend but that doesn't make it any less fun to discuss does it? I mean it is fiction and unlike the discussions of real events that occur here a discussion of the events in a movie can go anywhere so why not have fun with it.George Lucas did a pretty good job of creating a whole universe - not as good as Tolkien did IMO but still pretty darn good and entertained billions of folks (some of whom take it way too serious) when he did it. I'm no SW freak like some here obviously are (cheering at a movie - please) but I do enjoy the series. A combination of heroic fantasy, a style reminiscent of the movie serials of the 50's and sci-fi. That's a pretty entertaining combination if you ask me and well worth discussing and having fun with.