Author Topic: Have you read the latest Fred column?  (Read 4056 times)

JAlexander

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Have you read the latest Fred column?
« on: April 17, 2005, 05:00:25 AM »
My dear wife read it over my shoulder and said "Wow, that's a huge [censored] bummer."  She's right, but I'm afraid Fred is, too.
http://www.fredoneverything.net/ItAin'tBurundi.shtml

James

grampster

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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2005, 07:50:21 AM »
America was once referred to as a "sleeping giant".  That slumber is deeper today.  As a result our manufacturing base is disappearing even though we've been warned about that for years.  Because we always want more for less and right now, not next week, our ability to make stuff is going away fast.  Once we become more dependent upon other to provide us with goods, we'll be ripe for economic assault.  China is waiting in the wings and when the Dragon begins to seriously walk among us, we'll be subjegated.
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Justin

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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2005, 08:43:51 AM »
Grampster I'm not that old so there's a distinct possibility I'm mistaken, but people were saying the exact same thing about the Japanese during the 1980's.
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Gewehr98

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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2005, 09:09:11 AM »
Fred lost my interest with his rifleman diatribes.  He's nothing more than an M14 gunstock-selling blogger, now. I couldn't believe the amount of extraneous propoganda he stuffed into the box with my M14 stock several years ago.  Jeebus! At least his tinfoil hat wearing tendencies are consistent.
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Ben

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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2005, 10:18:13 AM »
Quote
Fred lost my interest with his rifleman diatribes
I think you're mixing up your Freds.... Smiley
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The Rabbi

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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2005, 10:42:18 AM »
All the "you all are just sheep being led to slaughter" diatribes are just plain dumb.  Things arent nearly as dire as Fred would like people to believe.  Thirty years ago people got drafted and had to hang their aspirations up for 2-3 years or forever, depending on how their service went.  Forty years ago the FBI could wiretap anybody's phone with no court order and no judicial review.  Richard Nixon regularly sicced the IRS on his enemies.  Kennedy had numerous affairs that were covered up by the press in his day.  The tax rate was 90% at its highest before the Kennedy tax cuts.  Coal miners developed Black Lung disease at an alarming rate and got no treatment, much less preventive gear.  I could go on and on.
So Fred, STFU!
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RevDisk

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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2005, 02:12:35 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
All the "you all are just sheep being led to slaughter" diatribes are just plain dumb.  Things arent nearly as dire as Fred would like people to believe.  Thirty years ago people got drafted and had to hang their aspirations up for 2-3 years or forever, depending on how their service went.  Forty years ago the FBI could wiretap anybody's phone with no court order and no judicial review.  Richard Nixon regularly sicced the IRS on his enemies.  Kennedy had numerous affairs that were covered up by the press in his day.  The tax rate was 90% at its highest before the Kennedy tax cuts.  Coal miners developed Black Lung disease at an alarming rate and got no treatment, much less preventive gear.  I could go on and on.
So Fred, STFU!
People still pay for the wars they disagree with.  If you don't pay, you can expect to lose your house or go to jail.  It's better than the draft, but one still must sacrifice time for government policy.  In 2004, Cost of Government day was July 7.  Meaning, from Jan 1st through July 7th, taxpayers worked for the government.  From the 8th to the end of the year, taxpayers worked for themselves.  How long does the average American live for?   That's a good number of required years of 'government service'.

http://www.atr.org/national/cogd/index.html


The FBI's restrictions on wiretaps have grown looser and looser with every antiterrorism bill.  According to EPIC, in 2003, ZERO federal wiretaps were flat out denied.  I found that flat out insane and hard to believe.  So I checked the second link to the DoJ's handy 2003 wiretap report.   1,442 requests.  1,442 authorized.  In the last ten years, there have been FOUR wiretap requests denied.  Please explain to me how four denied wiretaps in a decade are infinitely superior to unrestricted wiretaps?

http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/

http://www.uscourts.gov/wiretap03/contents.html

Specificially : http://www.uscourts.gov/wiretap03/Table7-03.pdf


Most presidents have used the IRS to hound people they dislike.  Clinton did it.  I know a few of my more left wing friends active in organizing protests have gotten audited like clockwork since 2001.   Maybe coincidence, maybe not.  

I would like to see some of these figures on 90% tax rate.  What income bracket?  Sources?


Point I'm trying to make, all those concerns you brought up are still around.  Some have gotten better.  A lot of those concerns have gotten even worse.  While I don't believe democracies are destined to fail, many of his concerns are valid.  Government corruption is indeed a very big issue.   Internet has vastly helped out freedom of the press.  Major news networks are a joke at best.  Unelected persons writing the law (well, policy.  Either way, you can go to jail for violating it.) is rather upsetting.
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The Rabbi

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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2005, 02:28:09 PM »
Yes and how can we say we're going into Iraq to help the Iraqis when we have starving children here in America? And we all know the war was really about Big Oil.  And Dick Cheney is on the board of Diebold, which made the voting machines so we all know the election was rigged.  Just connect the dots:rolleyes.
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RevDisk

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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2005, 04:01:15 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
Yes and how can we say we're going into Iraq to help the Iraqis when we have starving children here in America? And we all know the war was really about Big Oil.  And Dick Cheney is on the board of Diebold, which made the voting machines so we all know the election was rigged.  Just connect the dots:rolleyes.
Ah, as far as I know, Cheney isn't on the board of Diebold.  He's still connected with Halliburton by deferred compensation and stock options.  Funny that, as I would think it'd be considered a conflict of interest.   I assure you that none of my burning hatred of Halliburton is connected to the food poisoning I got from their mess halls because they bought cheap questionable food and billed the US Army for top quality food.  Or seeing them sell fuel to our enemies, while billing the US Army for it.  Nope, not whatsoever.  rolleyes

One of our fellow THR'ers, Jim March, is currently fighting Diebold.  Probably why he has dropped out of sight.


Thank you for insulting me and implying that I'm a conspiracy theory loonie because I'm concerned about civil rights, overtaxation, etc etc.  Out of mere curiousity, did you bother to look at the sources I sited, or did you merely decide I was one of the tin foil folks?
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2005, 04:36:46 PM »
Quote from: RevDisk
Thank you for insulting me and implying that I'm a conspiracy theory loonie because I'm concerned about civil rights, overtaxation, etc etc.  Out of mere curiousity, did you bother to look at the sources I sited, or did you merely decide I was one of the tin foil folks?
When you averred there was no significant difference between drafting someone, taking him away from his civilian life for several years, and putting him in harm's way and taxing his wages I pretty much decided you belonged in the tin foil hat crowd.

Did it ever occur to you that the FBI requests wiretaps only when they have excellent circumstantial evidence that will meet the criteria and this is why their rate of success is so good?  I did not see off-hand any mention of wire taps that should have taken place but were not requested.

And did you note that in cases where wiretaps were authorized every single one of them for 10 years resulted in an arrest and about half in conviction? Thats here:http://www.uscourts.gov/wiretap03/Table9-03.pdf  And no, they dont arrest people just to make the numbers look good.

And one more thing: never eat the 3-bean salad anywhere.
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matis

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2005, 07:03:06 PM »
Rabbi and RevDisk,

You're both right.

And you're both wrong.

i love reading Fred Reed and I think he has an excellent understanding of human nature and our current situation.

We have, of course, lost a tremendous number of our freedoms (but only for our own good, of course) in this country.  Read the book LOST RIGHTS by (I forget, right now -- James Bovard, I think).

And I think it was Stalin who said that he didn't care who the people voted for; he just wanted to choose the candidates.

Taxation, especially when you count ALL taxes, sales, property, inheritance, excise and all the government fees, in addition to Federal, State and in some places like NYC -- borough (!!) income taxes -- take WAY more than half of our incomes.

Then consider the tangle of regulations that strangle enterprise and add cost to (or prevent) every endeavor.  I have read (in Reason Magazine) that, on average, a house would cost about one third less, without all the "codes" and licensing requirements.  Would we have houses of lower quality and safety?  I think they'd be better because the free market and insurance requirements would take care of all this.  And they'd do so by responding to the market so that their requirements and services would be more practical and less subject to political considerations.

Wait 'till we get the national ID smart card with all of our personal, financial and even biological info and see how that impacts freedom.  In the Soviet Union they had internal passports.  You had to get permission from the authorities to go from city to city, especially to move.

In the interest of the war on terror, we get closer to this sort of thing all the time.  Have you somehow gotten yourself on the terrorist no-fly list?  Some pols want to remove your right to own guns.  See the trend?

Then there are cameras everywhere, black boxes in cars, soon to be GPS in all cars and devices to allow police to press a button and simply stop your engine, (avoids dangerous car-chases, you see) call-phone GPS, tremendous growth in computer and data-base technology.  You get the picture.  Traditional American notions of "freedom" haven't got a prayer.

Think I need a tin-foil hat?  My cell-phone is 4 years old and I can turn of the GPS function unless I dial 911.  My friend just bought a new cell-phone.  He doesn't have this option.  He's ALWAYS tracked.

I home-schooled my daughter for 6 years until she went off to Yeshiva (Jewish religious high-school).  To protect against being reported to "child protective services" and charged with child-neglect or truancy, I joined Home School Legal Defence Association.  Read their bi-monthly newlstetter sometime (HSLDA.com or org).  See the constant attacks on home-schooling families by social-workers, police, school superintendents who don't follow (or even know) state law and your hair will stand up.  Parents are threatened withjail or loss of their children if they don't submit to these various authorities.    And yet home-schooled kids score 30% higher than kids who attend government schools.

Try to hire someone who knows how to repair your roof but is not in the business or licensed.  No can do (legally).  We can no longer even pull permits to repair our own roofs in my city (or plumbing, or electrical, or pretty much anything) unless we pass a test first.  That's freedom?

I could go on and on, but you get my drift.


So do I think it right to fight a war for regime change in Iraq, given all that I've mentioned above?  You bet I do.

'Cause with all the grief I've outlined above, YOU TELL ME where it is better?

If the Iraqi's had to contend with all of the above, their condition would actually have improved a thousand fold.

You just gotta learn how to play the game.  I believe that democracy gradually devolves into tyranny because we ourselves want something for nothing.  It's a sort of social entropy.  We want freedom without responsibility.  We want the other guy (the government) to pay for our goodies.

Do (did) you send your kids to the government schools to be "educated" (brainwashed, dumbed-down)?  Then don't talk to me about your concern for freedom.  If that is what you do with your precious children, you have already shown how you (don't) put your money where your mouth is.  (I have donned my flame suit, so go ahead -- have at it!)


Yet I still love my adopted country, the United States of America.  I am freer here than any place else I know of.  And I have carved out the kind of life I can enjoy.  I think we are better off here because we ride on our historic traditions of freedom.  Eventually, I think we'll lose them and someday we, or some other people will fight for and achieve freedom again.  But I don't believe freedom can ever be kept indefinitely because people get soft and lazy.  We lose our will to freedom and end up wanting to be kept so long as we  seem free.  You know, bread (food stamps) and circuses (300 channel TV and sports).

How can I blame the USA and what she stands for -- for the weakness of the people who presently live here?

We've got a ways to go before our freedoms have diminished to the point where the few with the right spirit would fight.  And my daughter (I think -- I hope) is absorbing enough from me to keep her spirit strong and to learn to land on her feet.

Just keep your eyes open and learn to play the game.

Life is good, anyway!


matis
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

RevDisk

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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2005, 07:38:31 PM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
When you averred there was no significant difference between drafting someone, taking him away from his civilian life for several years, and putting him in harm's way and taxing his wages I pretty much decided you belonged in the tin foil hat crowd.
I specifically said taxation is not as bad as the draft.  I was merely trying to point out the federal government uses taxation as much to gain power/control as to raise revenue.   I happen to dislike socialist tax policies designed to control citizens.  To each their own.


Quote
Did it ever occur to you that the FBI requests wiretaps only when they have excellent circumstantial evidence that will meet the criteria and this is why their rate of success is so good?  I did not see off-hand any mention of wire taps that should have taken place but were not requested.

And did you note that in cases where wiretaps were authorized every single one of them for 10 years resulted in an arrest and about half in conviction? Thats here:http://www.uscourts.gov/wiretap03/Table9-03.pdf  And no, they dont arrest people just to make the numbers look good.
Innocent until proven guilty.  Being arrested does not mean they are guilty.  In 2003, only 22.9% were convicted.  Less than one in four.  Likely the real numbers are even less if appeals overturning convictions were factored into the mix.

As for "excellent circumstantial evidence", that's an article of faith moreso than anything else.   Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 set up special courts to handle wiretaps.  The evidence isn't generally released to the public.   We're supposed to trust these courts to be responsible and carefully view the evidence to make sure the alleged crimes are worthy of the wiretaps.  

Denying 4 wiretaps out of 13687 requests merely makes me wonder if judges actually bother to look over the evidence, or just sign the piece of paper.   A government success record of 99.9997% makes me slightly suspicious.  I've seen government paperwork.  Mountains and mountains of it.  There is no way you could convince me to expect all those requests were properly filled out, let alone entirely accurate.  

Judges are not supposed to rubberstamp government requests.  They are supposed to be part of the checks and balances system.
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K Frame

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« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2005, 08:13:51 PM »
"A friend recently returned from China and told me, As long as you dont screw with the government, it doesnt screw with you. Its not Burundi. I hate the bastards, but the economy is getting better and people go along. It could be lots worse."

Good old mouthbreathing Fred should work with some of my coworkers, the ones who left their homes and families in China to get away from the government.




"I would like to see some of these figures on 90% tax rate.  What income bracket?  Sources?"

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm327.cfm

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_044900_incometax.htm

http://www.bartleby.com/65/in/incometa.html

You can find many more if you google search.


The extra-ordinary amount of his income going to the Federal government is one of the things that helped turn Ronald Reagan towards the Republican party.
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mtnbkr

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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2005, 03:10:45 AM »
Quote
Good old mouthbreathing Fred should work with some of my coworkers, the ones who left their homes and families in China to get away from the government.
Yup.  I stopped reading his garbage after he decided living in Mexico was preferable to the US.  Nice place to visit, but if you think it's better than the US in quality of life and freedom, you're not wired quite right.

Then again, I'm just one of those "asleep at the wheel" type Americans. Wink

Chris

The Rabbi

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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2005, 04:22:51 AM »
Quote from: matis
I home-schooled my daughter for 6 years until she went off to Yeshiva (Jewish religious high-school).  To protect against being reported to "child protective services" and charged with child-neglect or truancy, I joined Home School Legal Defence Association.  Read their bi-monthly newlstetter sometime (HSLDA.com or org).  See the constant attacks on home-schooling families by social-workers, police, school superintendents who don't follow (or even know) state law and your hair will stand up.  Parents are threatened withjail or loss of their children if they don't submit to these various authorities.    And yet home-schooled kids score 30% higher than kids who attend government schools.matis
I also home school one of my children and was even written up in The Forward last year.  I dont know where you live but here in TN there are thousands of HSers and cases of harassment by authorities are pretty rare.  Those that are reported frequently have something else going on.  And yes occasionally some bonehead superintendant or government geek gets delusions of grandeur, but that is the exception not the rule.


<>

If you noticed the numbers dropped consistently over the 10 year period.  Why is that?  Are people less guilty today than 10 years ago?  Government getting bolder about taps?  Could be.  But hold on to your tin foil hat because maybe, just maybe, it takes time to develop a case so cases with longer history turn out to be better.  Also, do those numbers count pleas bargains?  I dont know.  But I do know a lot of cases end up that way substantially without a trial.  And just because they beat the rap hardly makes them innocent.

Sure, taxes are high and regulation has gotten out of hand.  The worst feature of America, imo, is that so much is dictated not by anything but whether the doer will get sued or not.  There is no telling how many products were not introduced because of fears of getting sued.  No telling how much more products cost because of liability fears.  This is the big difference between America of 40 years ago and today.
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matis

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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2005, 05:04:35 PM »
The Rabbi,

Congratulations on home-schooling.

However, your statement that harrassment of home0schooler is rare or is justified by some other reason is, with all due respect, uninformed.

Although the organization I mentioned in my earlier post, HSLDA, has fought successfully to reform the laws regarding home-schooling throughtout the USA, there are still far too many cases of harrassment of home-schoolers by over-zealous authorities.  These cases are caused either by school boards trying to intimidate home-schoolers into returning their kids to school (they get $ by head count and too many just hate that parents can teach their own children without their being able to control them) -- or -- by anonymous tipsters, often family members who dislike the idea of home-schooling and make fraudulent, often outlandish chages against these families.  These situations often escalate into social workers backed by police, facing down frightened and alone parents.

I've pasted below just one sample of a report from HSLDA on such harrassment.  And please bear in mind that although some cases required a fight, these families had legal representation (HSLDA) from the beginning.  Woe unto families or normal means who face these out-of-control government agents.  And the info below does NOT contain some of the more egregious, outrageous cases.


matis


 
 
 
 

   LEGAL/LEGISLATIVE UPDATES  
 
 

 

ACROSS THE STATES

 AL · AR · CA · CO · CT · DC · DE · FL · GA · KY · LA · MD · MI · MT · ND · NM · NY · OH · RI · SC · TX · VA · WY
 
TEXAS

Front gate under siege

In El Paso, the Child Protective Services (CPS) division of the Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services contacted a single, homeschooling mother to question her about some anonymous "allegations." This Home School Legal Defense Association member, Mrs. Snyder*, knew her rights and immediately referred the CPS worker to her attorney at our headquarters in Virginia. Although HSLDA agreed to set up a meeting the next week at the front gate, outside the family's home, the CPS representative still refused to reveal the allegations.


At the appointed time, the social worker and her supervisor came to Mrs. Snyder's front gate, insisting on entering the house and interviewing her child in private. HSLDA Attorney Christopher Klicka talked to the social worker on the family's portable phone but she refused to explain the allegations. Klicka asked to talk to her supervisor, who explained that she could not reveal the allegations because of "confidentiality."


Klicka pointed out that Mrs. Snyder had just handed the phone to her, and verbally given her permission to talk to Klicka.


"We have to protect confidentiality," the supervisor objected. "I do not even know you are who you say you are."


The supervisor said that she would not talk to the mother while the mother held the phone with an open connection.


"You are effectively denying Mrs. Snyder the right to counsel," Klicka countered.


The social worker finally spilled the allegations: The tipster had alleged, among other things, that the child was not in school, had lost over 15 pounds, went door to door begging for food, looked pale and drawn, that the house was extremely messy, there was animal refuse throughout the house, and that the mother drank heavily and was belligerent.


Mrs. Snyder explained that her family had two sets of possessions in their home since they were temporarily storing all her mother's furniture and other household goods.


During the next hour a tense battle ensued over the telephone wires between Texas and Virginia, with the social worker and her supervisor continuing to threaten to come through the gate and with Mrs. Snyder and Chris Klicka trying to keep them out.


The CPS agents called for a police officer to back them up. But Klicka adamantly refused to let them in without a warrant.


The police called for more backup and all the officials threatened to get court orders for entry.


HSLDA offered a compromise: a pastor could serve as an inspector of the home and give CPS a report. Finally, the police and social workers left, giving the family time to find some alternative storage for their extra belongings and straighten up the home a bit.


Despite the evident lack of probable cause, CPS managed to obtain a court order a day or so later.


Fortunately, two ladies from Mrs. Snyder's church were present when the social workers came back with the court order. The social workers found nothing and acted respectfully in front of these two witnesses.


With questionable probable cause and a home inspection that revealed nothing, Klicka was able to convince CPS to close the case and cancel the court hearing.


HSLDA is investigating the possibility of bringing charges against the tipster, whom the Snyder family believes is a neighbor, for knowingly making false accusations.


Mrs. Snyder's case was the most vivid example of several social services contacts HSLDA recently handled for our members in Texas. In Sequine, a CPS worker told the Bolton* family she had received an anonymous tip that their child was suffering from "possible emotional abuse" and that their "child's education and care needs are not being met." In Palo Pinto, anonymous tips resulted in social workers contacting the Acton* family twice in one month. The tipster complained that a grandmother had provided supposedly negligent care to their only child while the mother was on a trip and that the child was not receiving regular medical attention for an existing eye condition. In San Antonio, a CPS agent told an HSLDA member family* that someone had reported that their child was not being educated.


In each of these cases, the social workers insisted they had to enter the home and interview each child privately. In every case, HSLDA was able to step in on behalf of our member families, demonstrate that the charges were false, and negotiate the cases being closed or dropped.


Facing truancy charges


Home School Legal Defense Association's Texas Attorney Tom Sanders is working on three cases in which truancy charges have been filed against homeschoolers. Despite an unsuccessful attempt to negotiate case closure in a pre-trial meeting, the Austin prosecutor's office is intent on moving the Fiske* family's case to trial. In Houston, the Anders* family decided to homeschool their son after he was beaten black and blue at public school; however, school authorities filed truancy charges. This case is also proceeding to trial. In another Houston case, the Lewis* family notified the school district that they were going to homeschool but school officials slapped truancy charges on the 12-year-old daughter and "contributing to truancy" charges against the mother. At the initial hearing, the prosecutor indicated that he does not want to drop the case but intends to pursue it. HSLDA is preparing for trial.


 Christopher J. Klicka

* Names changed or withheld to protect family's privacy. See HSLDA's social services contact policy.
 


****************
I urge you to look at the HSLDA.com  website.  You'll find out what marvelous work they do (they are born-again Christians and I am Jewish -- I LOVE them, anyhow!)

And you'll find some stories that will make your blood boil.

60% of children removed from the home by CPS agencies are later found to have been removed without cause.  And children in CPS custody are TWICE as likely to be abused physically, sexually and murdered!  CPS doesn't even know where a percentage of the children in their care are.  They just loose track of them.

Of all the outrages perpetrated by various levels of government in the US, what the CPS service do is IMO by far the worst of all.

matis
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

The Rabbi

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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2005, 05:47:03 PM »
Notice I specified "here" meaning in Tennessee where I live.  I notice that the report doesnt mention my state.
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matis

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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2005, 06:52:43 PM »
The Rabbi, From what I remember from reading the bi-monthly HSLDA COURT REPORT, TN is one of the better states to home-school in.  But the authorities are similar in their attitude toward home-schoolers pretty much everywhere.

And isn't TN part of the USA?  The larger point of the post was about loss of freedom in the country, not just in TN.

What I do remember about TN is that a few years ago the pols decided to impose a state income tax and came near to succeeding (twice).  They were stopped by the talk show hosts revealing their machinations to the public -- who came by the thousands and circled the legislature building en mass, flashing their headlights and honking their horns.  Scared hell out of the pols, they did not impose the income tax, but they were left mad as hell.  Apparently they didn't like the people expressing themselves on an issue like taxes.  If I remember correctly, the second time they tried to pass the tax around midnight!

The larger point is that government power is ever growing and our rights are rapidly diminishing.  You are not arguing that point, are you?

matis
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2005, 05:19:11 AM »
Quote from: matis
The larger point is that government power is ever growing and our rights are rapidly diminishing.  You are not arguing that point, are you?

matis
Yeah, actually I am.

40 years ago there were basically no homeschoolers.  The Amish were the first and opened the door for the rest of us.
Until the 1970s there was no FOIA.
Until 1976 Americans could not own gold that was not in jewelry form (i.e. bullion for investment).
Tax rates were much higher 30 years ago than today.
The government had a censor's office that looked at every movie to be released and decided which scenes could and could not be shown.
Until the 1950s you could not buy copies of Lady Chatterlys Lover in this country.  Many books and magazines were banned outright and anyone sneaking a copy in from Europe was subject to criminal penalties.
In the 1950s being a member of the Communist Party could land you in jail and you could be denied employment.  Until the early 1960s Jews were legally excluded from living in certain areas.
I could go on and on like this.  Yes there has been more government regulation in a lot of areas and not of all of it has been good.  And yes there are many areas where I would like to see a lot of reform.  But no things are not worse than they were in the past.
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2005, 06:16:59 PM »
The Rabbi,

Where to begin?

-The Amish opened the door and the other believing Christians fought to keep it open and to wedge it even further open.  HSLDA and other (mostly) Christian organizations mobilized their members to fight to change laws in every state until now we can home-school.  But the battle never ends and public-school systems, social workers, police enforcing curfews must be fought constantly.  We put the "fear of G-d" into the politicians -- we can muster literally thousands to roam the halls of congress or state capitals and "visit" with the pols.  But the school officials, the social workers, the cops -- that's something else.  The battle never ends.

-FOIA is good.  Of course redacting the guts out of documents and taking forever to answer and charging through the nose for each page -- these are still a bit of a problem, right?

-We can now own gold, but the currency is no longer backed by anything, neither gold nor silver -- except for the politicians promises.  Fiat money, which can be and is printed as the government "needs" it.  Is your house now worth more?  Maybe.  More likely all you're seeing is the effect of your money worth less!

-Tax rates WERE higher 30 years ago, but we had offsetting deductions and it was possible to zero out -- if you knew what you were doing.  And there was no AMT (alternative minimum tax), which is now catching middle class taxpayers and penalizing them for having children.  And the poor and lower middle class pay much less in income tax (but not in FICA), but those who earn good incomes -- the real producers -- pay the lion's share.  So those who pay little can vote more taxes off themselves and onto the producers.  And they do and will continue to, until the real producers quit as in Atlas Shrugged, eh?

-There is now no censorship of sexually explicit content, only of politically incorrect speech, which is severely punished.  Mispeak and lose your livelihood or be forced to make groveling apologies.  One man in DC used the word, "niggardly" and lost his position and was castigated by ignoramuses who couldn't even speak their mother tongue.  And now we have the other extreme, where you cannot shield your children from filth and degradation pouring from every media outlet, while in the government schools they teach how to put condoms on bananas and peddle homosexuality as just another lifestyle choice.  You mean you haven't noticed the coarsening of public life and discourse?

-I used to hate HUAC and thought it terrible that the Rosenbergs were executed.  It has since been shown that, although he wasn't the most savory of characters, McCarthy was right about the infiltration of government by communists who actively supported the Soviets.  And the Rosenbergs really were communist spies who had handed atomic secrets to the soviets (he did and she helped him).

-Until the early 60's Jews WERE excluded from living in certain areas.  Their attendence was also limited by quotas at Ivey-League and other schools.  True.  But now we have "affirmative action" -- government sanctioned racism for favored groups.  And HUD forces poor people (who are mostly NOT like the poor of the past) into affluent neighborhoods, which they then ruin, using our tax money.  Those who protest are sued by HUD on  grounds of racism.  Groucho Marx said, "Any country-club that would have me as a member -- I don't want any part of."  Personally, I prefer to take my chances with good old fashioned freedom of association.

-Before 1968 I could take as much cash as I could round up (unfortunately that wasn't much) to the airport and fly anywhere with it.  My money; my business.  Now any sum over ten thousand dollars must be declared and you must explain where you got it and why you're travelling with it.  It will probably be confiscated, anyway.  Get stopped in your car by the police and they find cash -- they confiscate it.  You know, "Civil (or criminal -- either way -- whichever they think will stick best) Asset Forfeiture" of your assets, which the cops then keep a share of.  The Police Chief of San Francisco was quoted as exhorting his minions to step up their confiscations to bolster their police budget.  Gives a bold new meaning to  the phrase "highway robbery", doesn't it?

-The banks now profile you and any "unusual" activity in your account is automatically reported to FINCEN for investigation.  And what is "money-laundering" but an attempt to keep your own financial affairs private?  Ask your banker what "structuring" means.

-Government is now used by private companies to force property owners out of their homes and businesses by mis-using eminent domain procedures.

-As mentioned in my earlier post, I cannot legally do much to my own house without pulling (and paying for) a permit and being forced to use expensive, licensed tradesmen.  In my city, we can no longer cut down a tree on our property over 12 inches in diameter without begging permission of the authorities.  Then there are the poor suckers who own beachfront property, or "wetlands" who cannot build or otherwise use their own property.  An entire hospital was forced to tear down its buildings and rebuild them elsewhere because of an "endangered" INSECT on its property!

-In 13 states and DC one cannot legally use a firearm to protect oneself and in many jurisdictions, if the perp gets hurt while commiting a crime against you, violent or otherwise, he can SUE YOU for damages and win!

-If the teacher or the doctor sees bruises on your child he MUST by law report it and get you entangled with stupid and power-hungry social workers who believe that spanking is a crime, that religious parents are "authoritarian" and who impose their own "enlightened" standards which you must satisfy.  If you have some money and some brains and can afford lawyers, you can teach them a lesson.  But most people must just submit.

We once had contempt for the communists because they encouraged their "citizens" to turn each other in to the authorities for just about any infraction.  So where do you think that "Child Protective Services" get most of their tips?  And how many other government agencies offer 800 numbers to facilitate our ratting each other out?

Imagine the government having the power to take your children from you because they don't agree with your values.  Well, you don't have to imagine it -- it is our present reality in the land of the free and home of the brave.

-I attended a friend's law-school graduation ceremony about 2 years ago.  The speeches by the faculty made my hair stand up.  Politically correct crap about "social progress" for which they took full credit and by which they meant the injection of law into every nook and cranny of social life, which used to be dealt with far better by reliance on tradition and personal solutions.  What really upset me was their pride that they were now relying more and more on international law and precedent,  right up to the supreme court level.  G-d help us!

Did tradition and personal solutions solve every problem?  Will there ever be such a thing as utopia?

Once upon a time (when I was a militant atheist), religion had a much stronger hold on the people and so, although they often strayed, they had values that had been shaped and handed down through millenia of human experience.

Now, the majority either disdain religion, or they believe ti can be whatever they want it to be -- so long as it doesn't inconvenience them too much.

So once people had the concept that there was a higher law than government.  Now, we are so rational as to think that government represents the highest law there is.  Again, G-d help us.


The Rabbi, if you think that government power is not becoming tyrannical and our rights are not rapidly shrinking -- if you think that things are not worse than they were in the past -- then nothing I can write here will convince you otherwise.

The process of living has taught me otherwise.  And you'll believe what YOU think is right.  Right?

matis




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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2005, 05:40:16 AM »
Yeah, you're right, Matis.  We're going to heck in a handbasket.  Might as well just move to N.Korea and get it all over with.  We're done.  Stick a fork in us.  Toast.
Chag kasher v'someach, btw.
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2005, 08:20:37 AM »
You know, it's REALLY easy to seize on a few narrow examples and proclaim that they represent absolute, unwavering proof that:

A) our country is going downhill

and

B) we've been passed by most, if not all, other nations on the face of the earth.

Nice try, and BS.

My company employes individuals from all over the world.

I've worked with Chinese, Koreans (including several NORTH Koreans who fled), Mexicans, Indians, Russians, Georgians (not the state), Isralies, etc.

There are some pretty damned good reasons why they're here, and not in their native countries. If anyone actually believes that China is less invasive than the US, I have some people you can talk with.

If you think Mexico is a better place to live than the US, I have some people you can talk with.

It's both funny AND sad when this crap spews forth from people who very likely have never lived in the countries that they're saying are so wonderful.

If you really feel that way, I'd be more than happy to buy you the plane ticket and serve as your witness as you renounce your citizenship to go start your new life in the garden spot of your choice.

As far as I'm concerned, you can't get the hell out of my neighborhood quickly enough to suit me.
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2005, 01:19:45 PM »
I agree with you Mike.  I guess the counterargument is that you shouldnt compare the US to other countries but compare it to the US at some other time.  Preferably around 1778 I guess.
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2005, 02:34:08 PM »
Hey The Rabbi and Mike,

Did you read my 1st post above?  I'll paste a bit of it here to refresh your memories:

______________
Yet I still love my adopted country, the United States of America.  I am freer here than any place else I know of.  And I have carved out the kind of life I can enjoy.  I think we are better off here because we ride on our historic traditions of freedom.  Eventually, I think we'll lose them and someday we, or some other people will fight for and achieve freedom again.  But I don't believe freedom can ever be kept indefinitely because people get soft and lazy.  We lose our will to freedom and end up wanting to be kept so long as we  seem free.  You know, bread (food stamps) and circuses (300 channel TV and sports).

How can I blame the USA and what she stands for -- for the weakness of the people who presently live here?

We've got a ways to go before our freedoms have diminished to the point where the few with the right spirit would fight.  And my daughter (I think -- I hope) is absorbing enough from me to keep her spirit strong and to learn to land on her feet
_______________________________________________________________


I didn't say there was anywhere to live better than the USA.

As I said above, I love my adopted country.

But the trends are plain to me and, I beleive, to all who would pay attention.

I'd much rather that you were right and I am wrong.

matis

Chag kasher v'someach to you, too, The Rabbi.  And to both of you: all the best.
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2005, 04:43:26 PM »
Quote from: matis
I'd much rather that you were right and I am wrong.
Well, I knew we could all agree eventually.

Part of any trend to greater regulation has to do with the shifting nature of society.  In the frontier days someone could move out to a 50 acre farm (or larger) with no neighbors for miles.  He could do whatever he wanted pretty much.  Today most people dont live on farms, they live in much closer proximity to others.  So my right to raise goats is going to impede my neighbor's right to live without smelly goats next door.
Also life is more complicated with cheap international travel and communication.  Some of that is going to be used for illicit purposes and in attempting to stamp that out it will invariably affect people who totally innocent.
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