Good Samaritan With a Gun Shot by Cop in Colorado

[Ben]

I only read about this story this morning.

Executive summary: Nutjob in Aurora, CO decides to go on "cop killing spree". He kills a cop. A private citizen nearby kills the cop killer. A cop kills the citizen who stopped the killer.

I'm sure there is a lot of background info that hasn't come out. As far as currently available information, it's interesting to see the Aurora PD and city calling the dead armed citizen a hero while keeping the identity of their cop anonymous at this point. This makes it sound to me like the cop screwed up, vs it being a tragic accident. The articles did say the armed citizen had picked up the cop killer's AR, I assume to secure the weapon. Some allude that it was the armed citizen's fault that he was shot because of this, but of course he already had his own gun out when he shot the cop killer.

Anyway, as an armed citizen myself, I am following this story closely.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-cop-killers-chilling-words-revealed-my-goal-today-is-to-kill-arvada-pd-officers

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/06/25/police-in-arvada-colo-confirm-that-it-was-an-officer-who-shot-and-killed-good-samaritan-johnny-hurley-on-monday/

[MikeB]

I see a lot of criticism on various other sites about the guy picking up the original shooters AR. I don’t think there is enough information yet to determine if that was the “wrong” thing to do yet. If he didn’t know the original shooter was dead or not, it makes perfect sense to try and secure the weapon. Holding on to it would not be smart. My gut feeling is the cop was wrong for shooting the Good Samaritan. He probably didn’t order him to drop the gun or give him time to before opening fire. It will all depend on the exact timelines of course.

[zxcvbob]

A lot of detectives get shot that way.  When cops arrive at a crime scene the first thing they do is secure the area; that often means shoot anyone holding a gun if they are not wearing a uniform.

[Pb]

That is horrible.

[WLJ]

But tragically, that gun owner, identified as Johnny Hurley, was fatally shot by a responding police officer who had spotted Hurley holding the dead suspect’s AR-15 rifle, FOX 31 reported.

What was he thinking picking it up?  Kick it away from the shooter but do not pick it up. Especially when you know police are showing up possibly with reports of a man with a rifle shooting cops. Secure the threat, secure your weapon, wait.

[MechAg94]

A lot of detectives get shot that way.  When cops arrive at a crime scene the first thing they do is secure the area; that often means shoot anyone holding a gun if they are not wearing a uniform.

That is a really foolish practice.  I would suggest training but they won't do that anyway.  A non-LEO citizen would have been arrested and charged for doing that.  Police are not supposed to shoot everyone and sort it out later.

[Ben]

What was he thinking picking it up?  Kick it away from the shooter but do not pick it up. Especially when you know police are showing up possibly with reports of a man with a rifle shooting cops. Secure the threat, secure your weapon, wait.

He might have been thinking this:

https://youtu.be/IXoGzJZw4Z4?t=141

[BobR]

Any time there has been a shooting and you are in the area the best thing to do is to assume the Police will arrive soon and will want to kill you. Don't give them an excuse. 


bob

[MechAg94]

Any time there has been a shooting and you are in the area the best thing to do is to assume the Police will arrive soon and will want to kill you. Don't give them an excuse. 


bob

I agree with that.  Two issues on my mind with this one.  1.  What I should do in that situation.  2.  What I wish Police would do. 

I can only assume they see too many videos of other incidents where a gang banger pulls a gun and start shooting with no warning. 

[Ron]

The last place I would want to be is in the location of a "shots fired, officer down" call.

Maybe, it should be taught in conceal carry and self defense classes that everyone "brandishing" a gun at the scene of a shooting is treated as armed and dangerous until the cops sort everything out.

What a tragedy.

[kgbsquirrel]

A lot of detectives get shot that way.  When cops arrive at a crime scene the first thing they do is secure the area; that often means shoot anyone holding a gun if they are not wearing a uniform.

Which is *expletive deleted*ing retarded. 

[WLJ]

May only get worse since a lot of cops feel like, and for good reason, they have a bullseye painted on their back nowadays.

[Pb]

A while ago we a shooting in a mall- a local CCer drew his gun on hearing the shots... and was killed by police, as they thought he was the perp.  It is serious issue.

[Pb]

I just read a post on another forum by a policeman.  He said the standard training for cops responding to an "active shooter" is for the the police to immediately shoot anyone in plainclothes carrying a gun.

So, I guess we should prepare accordingly.


 

[RoadKingLarry]

I just read a post on another forum by a policeman.  He said the standard training for cops responding to an "active shooter" is for the the police to immediately shoot anyone in plainclothes carrying a gun.

So, I guess we should prepare accordingly.


 

For my part that tells me that the police want to be "on their own" and I will act according to their desire. If I were to see a cop in distress on the side of the road or elsewhere, I will do my civic duty and report the incident to the proper authority. How much do stamps cost these days?

[T.O.M.]

As an armed citizen who doesn't wear a uniform (Boy Scout uniforms don't count), my thought process is this...

1. Police will be sent to the scene of most shooting with information of it being a "man with a gun" or a "active shooter." call.
2. I am, at that point, a man with a gun at the scene.
3.  How do I avoid being shot by responding officers?

My thought is that if I have fired, hit the bad guy, and the threat is down and disarmed, I might just want to holster up, get on my phone with 911, and start screaming my description to the dispatcher in hopes that description is shared with officers so they know I'm not the bad guy.

If I'm at the scene of an active shooter situation, I'm not hunting the shooter down.  I'm hiding/covering my family.  Maybe when I hear the sirens, I consider holstering up so I don't look like the bad guy when the first responders run in.

If the threat is still active and I am armed and engaging when cops arrive... God help me.

[Ben]

My thought is that if I have fired, hit the bad guy, and the threat is down and disarmed, I might just want to holster up, get on my phone with 911, and start screaming my description to the dispatcher in hopes that description is shared with officers so they know I'm not the bad guy.

If I'm at the scene of an active shooter situation, I'm not hunting the shooter down.  I'm hiding/covering my family.  Maybe when I hear the sirens, I consider holstering up so I don't look like the bad guy when the first responders run in.

If the threat is still active and I am armed and engaging when cops arrive... God help me.

These three things to me are three completely different levels (not calling you out TOM, pretty much agreeing with you, actually). If there is time for the 911 call, then yeah, I'm giving lots of details and depending on if it's before I have to, or after I have already shot a threat, but before I hear cops, I think there is plenty of time to make myself a "non-target".

The closer it is from the time I have shot a threat to when the cops arrive, the more my life is in danger due to mis or non-communication. I don't know any easy answers.

Certainly Pb's post about what the cop said is a little scary to me as a law-abiding armed citizen (as it should be to any plainclothes LE, perhaps visiting an area on vacation, and responding to a threat). Though I'm relatively certain what that one cop said may vary greatly across the socio-geography of the US.

[dogmush]

Cap the bad guy, holster up, and go home.

The investigation is the cops problem, and they've made it clear they don't want help. On the off chance the don't just call the bad guy's end a suicide, and manage to find you at home,  have your lawyer tell them you left to avoid being shot by the cops.

Seriously. The advice to wait for cops and tell your side of the story is a relic from a time when we had police that were less trigger happy and a justice system that could approximate a fair trial.  We now have profesionally paranoid para-military trigger pullers and trial by media.  Why participate?

[MechAg94]

In a lot of cases in public, you can assume you will be on camera.  It seems to be a common thing with car jacking and other crimes for people to drive off a distance and then call 911.  I would be careful about just going home.  Might get you on the hot seat in some jurisdictions. 

[dogmush]

Security cameras are the reason those COVID masks are so handy.

[zxcvbob]

In a lot of cases in public, you can assume you will be on camera.  It seems to be a common thing with car jacking and other crimes for people to drive off a distance and then call 911.  I would be careful about just going home.  Might get you on the hot seat in some jurisdictions.

I'd much rather have an uncomfortable discussion with the cops later than be shot by one on the scene because they are trigger-happy and have qualified immunity.  I'm getting the hell out of there.  Will I call it in later?  Dunno, I haven't figured that part out yet.

[Ron]

I'll need to think on this some more.

The police policy and the law not only don't encourage, but discourage Americans from going "White Knight" and coming to the rescue.

If you aren't under an immediate threat you should probably just escape safely.

Even capping the bad guy in a sure thing good shoot then exiting is probably going to, at best, result in you going free after being punished severely by the very process of being cleared. 

[zxcvbob]

If the police are being targeted and I'm not at much risk, good luck to them; they don't want my help and will probably try to kill me if I interfere.  If a group of innocents are being gunned down, I might decide "it's a good day to die" and try to cap the bad guy.  (I could fail and still save a lot of lives)  Or I might just get the hell outta there.  Either way I'm not sticking around so the cops can shoot me when they show up; the good day to die thing doesn't cover that.

I don't carry very often, so much of this is just a mental exercise.  That's still useful to set one's boundaries.

[Hawkmoon]

The police policy and the law not only don't encourage, but discourage Americans from going "White Knight" and coming to the rescue.

I have to disagree. I think the laws of all fifty states specifically allow us to use deadly/lethal force to defend a third party.

[kgbsquirrel]

I have to disagree. I think the laws of all fifty states specifically allow us to use deadly/lethal force to defend a third party.

That is not what he said.