Gun Company (H-S Precision) hires thug/murderer LON HORIUCHI as spokeperson

[Don't care]

If he was the one that shot Vicki Weaver, does anyone remember who shot the Weaver's 13 year-old son in the back?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

wasn't it the dead marshall? deagan?

[erictank]

wasn't it the dead marshall? deagan?

From what I've read, Degan did shoot the Weaver's dog (the event that allegedly triggered the firefight between the Feds and Weaver and Harris that day), and may have been the one to shoot Sam in the back, as well.  The latter point is subject to MUCH conjecture, from what I can tell - lots of different stories floating around out there.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

true  its the most convenient  story

[MechAg94]

I would say that a lot of people know what Ruby Ridge is, but most don't know the names involved.  I didn't.  You have to read a bit more than the summary accounts to remember the names. 

[Werewolf]

I would say that a lot of people know what Ruby Ridge is, but most don't know the names involved.  I didn't.  You have to read a bit more than the summary accounts to remember the names. 

But even if they did - read the accounts, learn the names and take the time to think about it how many would care? How many would say Weaver got exactly what he deserved and it's just too bad about his wife and son? they wouldn't believe he was set up at all.

IMO most would say the governent was just doing it's job enforcing gun laws and write the whole thing off as an if you can't do the time don't do the crime situation.

[Don't care]

But even if they did - read the accounts, learn the names and take the time to think about it how many would care? How many would say Weaver got exactly what he deserved and it's just too bad about his wife and son? they wouldn't believe he was set up at all.

IMO most would say the governent was just doing it's job enforcing gun laws and write the whole thing off as an if you can't do the time don't do the crime situation.

That's because most don't take the time to learn the facts.

Thankfully, the civil action saw right through that. Though, I'm sure that the Weavers would much rather have their family back.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Remember HELL!

Ask a 1000 people on the street who Lon Horiuchi is and what he did and you'll be lucky if even 1 can answer.

Its not that everyone doesn't remember its that most never even knew.

1000 people on the street might not know.  But I'd bet if you asked 1000 gun owners (i.e. H-S Precision customers), then many would in fact know. 

[Gewehr98]

Anybody hear anything from the H-S Precision side yet?

(Conspicuously quiet...)

[Balog]

1000 people on the street might not know.  But I'd bet if you asked 1000 gun owners (i.e. H-S Precision customers), then many would in fact know. 

Indeed. I'd always heard of H-S as a rather high end precision rifle place. More serious shooters, less FUDDs. I'd imagine among those serious about long range rifle work the name of that murdering bastard would be well known.

[vaskidmark]

Anybody hear anything from the H-S Precision side yet?

(Conspicuously quiet...)

I sent them an email stating my displeasure about their choice of who endorses their products the same day I posted this topic.  No response yet.  Nothing seen on any of the other boards that anyone else communicating with H S has gotten a response.  Very quiet indeed.

stay safe.

skidmark

[HankB]

I suspect H-S is in full "damage control" mode . . . probably trying to figure out how to defuse the outrage without actually apologizing for using Horiuchi's endorsement. ("We can do no wrong . . . ")

It won't surprise me if they initially come out with an "explanation" rather than an "apology" . . . something along the lines of the "Absolut" vodka company's response to criticism of their ad which showed a good part of the USA as belonging to Mexico.  :rolleyes:

As for me . . . I noticed that Brownell's had a couple of pages of H-S gunstocks listed in their catalog, so I dropped a note to their customer service people, just letting them know what one of their vendors is up to. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

autoeroticism aside what is it folks imagine they accomplish  is this supposed to hurt horiuchi? hes gonna be upset that a letter he wrote several years ago migt get pulled from a catalog? 

[ilbob]

Its important that people not forget what happened at RR and never forgive those in positions of power who were responsible for its use.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i'm just curious about how lil noise is made about all the other players in that tragedy.  of course part of the problem with folks looking at ruby ridge is they need to shovel a ton of manure to get to it. much sturmfront and tinfoil to fight through

[HankB]

i'm just curious about how lil noise is made about all the other players in that tragedy. of course part of the problem with folks looking at ruby ridge is they need to shovel a ton of manure to get to it. much sturmfront and tinfoil to fight through

I think few here believe Randy Weaver was the sort of guy they'd like to have as a neighbor (though I've had worse) - his separatist beliefs kill his popularity. Understandably, a lot of people don't want to listen to him about that, and the general media is not about to put the Weavers on a pedestal. Now, if he were an ACLU member, maybe things would be different . . .

Nonetheless, he & his family aren't viewed as the sort of criminals that merited death at the hands of government operatives . . . government operatives that many believe got away with murder.

In the case of Horiuchi, they believe that was literally what happened.

That the Weavers were paid around $3,000,000 by the government in the aftermath is a good indicator of who was really in the wrong.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i think its strange how the marshalls service started  the killing and the atf the original  case with the informant and yet they get less stick than the fbi.  and the amount of noise this case generates is amazing.  folks will talk about how they've read up on it and (gasp) seen the videos and still claim horiuchi killed sammy. this case is a textbook example of how not to.

[Balog]

I don't think anyone who's written to HS is trying to hurt Horiuchi by doing so. I think the idea is to hurt HS for getting in bed with him.

And the reason he gets the most hate is A. He has a name and a face as opposed to "the ATF" & B. He shot an unarmed woman in the face. If you can't understand why that would rile people up a bit.......

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i take it then you are amongst those that believe that was his intended shot?

[Uncle Bubba]

I'm with HankB in that I don't care for Randy Weaver even a little, BUT, we're supposed to have the right to be left the hell alone as long as we're not bothering anyone else. He wasn't, but the Feds wanted to make use of him and when he declined their offer (read: attempt at coercion) they decided to screw him, and did. They screwed themselves in the process, got people killed, and we the taxpayers had to pony up blood money for their mistakes. I don't begrudge him or his children the money (even though it surely won't bring his wife and son back so what's the point?), I just would rather the people that did it had had to cough up.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

He wasn't, but the Feds wanted to make use of him and when he declined their offer (read: attempt at coercion) they decided to screw him, and did.



seems you over looked him and the sawed off shotguns.

[roo_ster]

CSD:

The FBI is larger and generally takes over when incidents take too long to resolve or are larger than the initial federale agency wants to handle.

The Feebs also set the standard for other agencies to follow.

In the case of RR, the dog-shooting and the son-shooting are outrageous, but are overshadowed by the killing of the unarmed mother.

In the case of Waco, the ATF started the mess, but it was the Feebs who were in control when they decided to storm the place and turned a bunch of kids into crispy critters.

And don't underestimate the contempt in which the ATF is held.  Not only are they evil, but they are incompetent in the way that a bunch of untrained kool-aid drinkers were able to give them a shellacking.

[Balog]

One gun, theoretically 3/8 of an in or so too short, and we only have the feds word it was like that when sold.

But yeah, that fraction of an inch of wood justifies shooting his kid in the back and his unarmed wife in the face.

[Uncle Bubba]

He wasn't, but the Feds wanted to make use of him and when he declined their offer (read: attempt at coercion) they decided to screw him, and did.



seems you over looked him and the sawed off shotguns.

No, I didn't.

The Feds got one of their informants to pester Weaver to saw off and sell him the shotguns. He refused several times and then did it to get the guy out of his hair and off his nerves (and like Balog said, we only have the Feds word that they were too short when sold). Then the Feds came to him and said, "We gotcha, buddy. But, go to work for us and we'll overlook this little matter." He told 'em to screw and holed up in his cabin, and the rest eveolved from there.

 Entrapment, and done not because he was a dangerous criminal or even potentially one based on any evidence, but because they wanted to make use of him.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i feel for him on his loss. but its not like he didn't know that he was breaking the law and would be jammed up if caught.


if this was his legal defense
"Rather than seek a legal means to solve his problems, the Weaver family mounted a letter-writing crusade against the FBI. In February 1991, Vicki mailed two angry letters to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boise. One was addressed to "The Queen of Babylon" and stated in part:

"A man cannot have two masters. Yahweh Yahshua Messiah, the anointed One of Saxon Israel is our law giver and our King. We will obey Him and no others. ... "a long forgotten wind is starting to blow. Do you hear the approaching thunder? It is that of the awakened Saxon. War is upon the land. The tyrants blood will flow."

The other letter was addressed to "Servant of the Queen of Babylon, Maurice O. Ellsworth, U.S. Attny." The greeting read:

"Yah-Yahshua the Messiah of Saxon Israel is our Advocate and our Judge.The stink of your lawless government has reached Heaven, the abode of Yahweh our Yahshua. Whether we live or whether we die, we will not bow to your evil commandments."" he had a shot at not guilty by reason of mental defect but not a good shot