Author Topic: HOA woes  (Read 5571 times)

vaskidmark

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HOA woes
« on: August 13, 2009, 12:10:00 PM »
No, not mine.  Just thought some folks might like to recall their salad days. :angel:

Quote
Tuesday, August 11, 2009
HOA Wars continues
 

The property management company used by my evil and dastardly HOA sends me an assessment bill, but it shows a $400 credit instead of a bill. I'm thinking the HOA is refunding money for some overcharge or tax rebate, and in typical fashion hasn't bothered to tell us homeowner peasants whats up.

Arrogant and incompetant property management follows up weeks later with a corrected bill (caused by a "computer error" yuk yuk yuk) plus a late fee. Contacting the PM and explained why there is now way in hell I'm paying that late fee, they agree to delete the late fee and send a corrected bill. But they never sent a correction.

So I give up waiting and correct the bill and send in my dues. This month the bill comes with a new late charge plus interest! I explain to them (again) why I'm not paying no damn late charge because they screwed up, let alone interest on the bogus late charge.

This morning they agreed with me. I'm stultified. Agreeing with me is a new tact. Can't wait to see how this fits into whatever the current HOA's conspiracy is. And there is one, there always is.

stay safe.

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 01:00:16 PM »
The only way to live in peace with HOA's as an HOA-hater is to get on your HOA board.

Period.  End of Sentence.  Carriage Return-Line Feed.

From there you can damned near stop the HOA from doing HOA-oriented things beyond mowing communal grass, if you have enough like minded neighbors.  Just have to dethrone the resident cat-owning bluehair busybodies that crown themselves the neighborhood weed police and the like.
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BrokenPaw

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 01:28:34 PM »
The only way to live in peace with HOA's as an HOA-hater is to get on your HOA board.

This.

There's a reason that I'm making the time to sit on my HOA board, on top of the other forty-hundred things that I do.  It's like having a security council seat at the UN.

All things considered, my HOA is remarkably un-invasive, but I like to keep my finger on the pulse.

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K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 01:46:52 PM »
"The only way to live in peace with HOA's as an HOA-hater is to get on your HOA board.

Period.  End of Sentence.  Carriage Return-Line Feed."

Truer words have never been spoken.

I spent over a decade on my HOA board for simply that reason.

Now it's looking more and more like I'm going to need to go back on because there's a couple of "one number on your address plaque is 0.000005 inches lower than the others. You are hereby fined $500, with an additional $500 a day, until this serious violation is corrected."

I got into it a couple of months ago with one dork because he was giving my neighbor a hard time over her shutters. There were some paint bubbles, but the paint wasn't broken, it was a cohesive layer.

I hammered him six ways from Sunday with the very HOA standards that he thought he knew. I'm standing there quoting specifics, and he's flipping pages trying to keep up with me. Helps that I wrote that section. :D

Of course, I'll probably get hammered on my next inspection.
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CNYCacher

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2009, 01:55:28 PM »
You guys really oughtta just try owning your own home.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2009, 01:56:25 PM »
Workin' on it.   =D  Hopefully by October all will be square.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 02:15:14 PM »
i had a couple q tips try to stop me from painting a townhome the exact same color it was already. since the color was "subject to review.  i painted this place when it was new from a 5 gallon bucket.  the new paint job was from the same original bucket but granny wanted to review and sign off. called the cops when i ignored her.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 02:19:31 PM »
I do own my own home.

I am not, however, silly enough to believe that "owning one's own home" means instant relief from any and all covenants, restrictions, zoning ordnances, etc., that I can run a combination hide tannery, iron smelter and gold mine on my property "just because I own it."

HOAs are one of the purest forms of democratic government we have in the United States -- those who live in close proximity, all of whom have a vested interest in what goes on LOCALLY, instead of regionally or on the other side of town, have direct control over how their property is administered.

It's unfortunate that so few people comprehend that concept, and even fewer, once they live in a community with an HOA, will actually lift a finger to help themselves. Of course, they can whine loud and long about how the HOA is picking on poor widdle dem, and how the big, evil, heartless, and faceless HOA is squeezing their soul right out their ears.

Bull crap.

When I was on the HOA, if someone came to us with a complaint, they were informed that they were now heading up the ad hoc committee that was going to investigate the matter and report back to the board on its findings and recommendations.

Some of them actually did just that, and we got some really innovative solutions to issues that had been plaguing our community.

Others, though? More complaints.

Years ago I actually had one guy in an open meeting tell me that 'I pay your salary, and I don't like the job you're doing!'

Stupid fool didn't even realize that we VOLUNTEERED to take his petty abuse, a fact that the board quickly pointed out to him.
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K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 02:20:50 PM »
"called the cops when i ignored her."

Are you serious?

That's a freaking riot!   :laugh:

Hopefully the cops told her exactly what they did, and did not, enforce.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 02:24:31 PM »
yea they did and as you know the prince william police have better /bigger things to do.   she was a riot i lost patience with her tantrum and told her all the shrieking  was not gonna make me genuflect to her and she told the cop i cursed her. i was scared for a second but the cop was an altar boy and at least he knew what genuflect meant. the good news was i didn't own the house the bad news was i managed it for the guy who did.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

HankB

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 03:09:01 PM »
i had a couple q tips try to stop me from painting a townhome the exact same color it was already. since the color was "subject to review.  i painted this place when it was new from a 5 gallon bucket.  the new paint job was from the same original bucket but granny wanted to review and sign off. called the cops when i ignored her.
Sounds like you were continuing the originally approved paint job, and just allowed plenty of time for the first coat to dry before applying a second.  :angel:

  . . . i lost patience with her tantrum and told her all the shrieking  was not gonna make me genuflect to her  . . .
You know, these people aren't exactly anonymous when they decide to make someone their project. If they make a habit of going out of their way to cause problems or create an issue where there really isn't one,  I just have to think that eventually they'll provoke a retaliatory response.
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CNYCacher

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 03:25:19 PM »
You guys really oughtta just try owning your own home.

I do own my own home.

I am not, however, silly enough to believe that "owning one's own home" means instant relief from any and all covenants, restrictions, zoning ordnances, etc., that I can run a combination hide tannery, iron smelter and gold mine on my property "just because I own it."

HOAs are one of the purest forms of democratic government we have in the United States -- those who live in close proximity, all of whom have a vested interest in what goes on LOCALLY, instead of regionally or on the other side of town, have direct control over how their property is administered.

It's unfortunate that so few people comprehend that concept, and even fewer, once they live in a community with an HOA, will actually lift a finger to help themselves. Of course, they can whine loud and long about how the HOA is picking on poor widdle dem, and how the big, evil, heartless, and faceless HOA is squeezing their soul right out their ears.

Bull crap.

When I was on the HOA, if someone came to us with a complaint, they were informed that they were now heading up the ad hoc committee that was going to investigate the matter and report back to the board on its findings and recommendations.

Some of them actually did just that, and we got some really innovative solutions to issues that had been plaguing our community.

Others, though? More complaints.

Years ago I actually had one guy in an open meeting tell me that 'I pay your salary, and I don't like the job you're doing!'

Stupid fool didn't even realize that we VOLUNTEERED to take his petty abuse, a fact that the board quickly pointed out to him.

How to calculate your Irwin score: divide the number of characters Irwin types on his rant by the number of characters you used to set him off.

A new personal best: 1617 / 54 =  29.9
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
Charles Babbage

AZRedhawk44

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 03:33:38 PM »
redacted...
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 03:33:50 PM »
Oh, just so we're clear about this, I have as much patience and tolerance for poodle yapping HOAs as I do for poodle yapping home owners, which isn't a hell of a lot.

Edit:

Or, for that matter, poodle yapping internet posters who think they know what they're talking about based on a bunch of baseless assumptions, things they've heard from a neighbors brother's friend's dog's owner's cousin, and, far too often, a poorly developed understanding of the Constitution.

Simple fact is... Rants wouldn't be necessary if people just knew what the hell they were talking about.

When they don't? Rant time.

End Edit.

There are lots of horror stories out there about HOAs that are one step removed from the old Soviet secret police state model.

It's my contention, though, that for every one of those, there's another one that is well run and managed, where the owners largely know their rights and responsibilities and where the HOA maintains a very light hand.

On the downside, there are also more than enough HOAs where no one cares enough to do anything, including serving on the board, so the community looks like absolute hell. I've seen a couple of those in Northern Virginia.

Just as with everything else in this world, you really only hear about the draconian HOAs. They're the ones that make the newspapers and magazines and TV shows because owners, in many cases people who didn't bother to read their manual or talk to people in the community, are shocked to learn that there are certain things that are expected of them when they live in a planned unit development and they scream loud and long until the "evils" of the HOA are broadcast far and wide.

There are some definite ways to prevent getting caught in that kind of situation.

1. READ the covenants, rules, and regulations for the HOA BEFORE you sign on the dotted line. We were constantly going hammer and tong with a woman in my community over her breaking very clear cut rules. She kept threatening to sic her lawyer on us, we kept laughing and didn't run away screaming, because we were right.

2. WALK around and look at the property, both the homes and the grounds. Well kept, neat, tidy, almost like the street in Stepford Wives? Or a weed infested, faded paint and rotten trim nightmare? Generally, if you get something between the two, you probably have an involved HOA that's not reminiscent of the Hitler Youth.

2. TALK to several people in the community where you're thinking of buying. There's no better way to gauge what kind of association your community than by talking to people who live there. Talk to several, and if at all possible, talk to one of the members of the board.

3. ASK the real estate agent what he's heard. HOAs that are too far to either side of the middle management wise get bad reputations with agents. You might have to press them, but generally they'll come clean.

4. CONTACT the county or state entity that oversees HOAs and which deals with dispute resolution between HOA boards and residents. This may or may not prove fruitful. Virginia's body, which used to be called the Real Estate Corporation Council or something like that, was worthless. Tits on a bull kind of worthless.

Finally, when you do buy a home?

Get involved in your community.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2009, 03:38:48 PM by Mike Irwin »
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Scout26

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 03:35:01 PM »
How to calculate your Irwin score: divide the number of characters Irwin types on his rant by the number of characters you used to set him off.

A new personal best: 1617 / 54 =  29.9


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El Tejon

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2009, 03:38:51 PM »
An HOA?  How I long for such power.

Marching about telling feckless hilljacks to cut their grass, move their motorcycles to the garage, stop throwing empty orange juice bottles onto the street or face the wrath of a strongly worded, yet polite, letter.

HOA Police=> :police:
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El Tejon

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2009, 03:40:02 PM »
Quote
There are lots of horror stories out there about HOAs that are one step removed from the old Soviet secret police state model.

Please tell me about them . . . slowly. =D
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K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2009, 03:41:32 PM »
Please tell me about them . . . slowly. =D

Only if you PROMISE me that you don't have your pants around your ankles and an open bag of cheetos beside you...
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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2009, 03:43:33 PM »
An HOA?  How I long for such power.

Marching about telling feckless hilljacks to cut their grass, move their motorcycles to the garage, stop throwing empty orange juice bottles onto the street or face the wrath of a strongly worded, yet polite, letter.

HOA Police=> :police:

Your municipality might already have laws or ordinances against all those things.  'Specially the littering and the grass height.
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K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2009, 03:44:53 PM »
Your municipality might already have laws or ordinances against all those things.  'Specially the littering and the grass height.


OH THE NOES! EVIL MUNICIPALITY! I'LL NEVER LIVES IN ONE OF THOSES!

:D
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CNYCacher

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2009, 03:47:31 PM »
I spent over a decade on my HOA board for simply that reason.

Now it's looking more and more like I'm going to need to go back on because there's a couple of "one number on your address plaque is 0.000005 inches lower than the others. You are hereby fined $500, with an additional $500 a day, until this serious violation is corrected."

I got into it a couple of months ago with one dork because he was giving my neighbor a hard time over her shutters. There were some paint bubbles, but the paint wasn't broken, it was a cohesive layer.

I hammered him six ways from Sunday with the very HOA standards that he thought he knew. I'm standing there quoting specifics, and he's flipping pages trying to keep up with me. Helps that I wrote that section. :D

Of course, I'll probably get hammered on my next inspection.

Nightmare.
On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
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El Tejon

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2009, 03:49:35 PM »
I promise.

Now dish.  I speak Russian and have the leather coat.  I just need to know what to do!
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K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2009, 03:54:19 PM »
No, not really a nightmare, because unlike far to many petty bureaucrats, he backed down and finally admitted that he wasn't following the architectural guidelines, that he misunderstood them.

It's when you get the unblinking, unwavering, mindless petty bureaucrat that it quickly turns into a nightmare.

That's why I spent a decade on my HOA, making damned sure that my community didn't fall that way.

I'll say one thing about this guy -- he holds himself to the same standards. That's another nightmare situation, when the board starts adopts an Us vs Them mentality.

The WORST case of HOA abuse that I've ever heard of, though?

I forget where it happened, Norfolk area, I think, but it was a large community where no one was involved and the same people kept going back to the board time and time again on very low votes at meetings with low member turnout.

Board members were waiving their HOA dues and were selectively waiving dues for their buddies and cronies. That's not just unethical, it's illegal as hell. They were also using HOA employees to do personal jobs around their homes and charging it to the HOA. I think two members, the President and Vice President, went to jail over that.

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Brad Johnson

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2009, 03:56:17 PM »
For people who don't know about how completely wacked some HOA-enforcment types can be, watch "Over the Hedge".

Brad
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K Frame

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Re: HOA woes
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2009, 03:59:17 PM »
Worst one I've ever heard of was in Alexandria, VA.

They did monthly property inspections, complete with paint chip books of authorized paint colors. Your door's a little too faded? You get a paint order.

Then, of course, you have the HOAs that out of the blue don't think that pick up trucks are tony enough for their community, so they ban them outright. One community went so far as to say that you couldn't even keep them in your garage. That one went to court and the pick up owners won.

The association that mandated that garbage cans had to come in before dusk on pick up day. One officer was marching around the community at dusk, handing out fine notices.
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