Taser happy police are scared of a bedridden granny on oxygen

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

those concentrating machines must be safer than the old o2 tanks i see folks smoking with them

[kgbsquirrel]

those concentrating machines must be safer than the old o2 tanks i see folks smoking with them

Not really: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7QpSfvyOek 

Note that she states she was using a concentrator, not a tank that the poster or the news lady mistakenly stated.

[MechAg94]

For safety purposes at work, anything over 23.5% O2 is considered an elevated O2 atmosphere.  It has been awhile, but I was thinking that when you get over 30% or so, all sorts of stuff that normally isn't that flammable becomes very flammable.  Our company deals in pure industrial oxygen at say 600 psig.  I have seen the results of a fire in an oxygen compressor.  It isn't pretty.  Some of the metal just burns, a lot of it melts and sprays all over the place once a hole is burned out.  We put safety barriers around all those compressors for good reason.  No one is allowed in while they are running.

[Jamisjockey]

Detcord? 

Claymore so I can take someone with me!

[KD5NRH]

That said, I still wouldn't volunteer to try to disarm someone of a bladed weapon by hand short of having a stab vest with throat/face protector and cut resistant arm and hand guards on.

You can solve two thirds of that by not leading with your face.

[taurusowner]

We could go off on a huge tangent here on weather LE should come to this kind of thing, but it won't change the basic fact that those cops used a weapon on someone that was not a credible threat. 

Just to make note of the fact that if she was suicidal, than she most certainly was a credible threat, to herself.  Police are not taught to put people who threaten themselves lower on the force continuum than those who a threats to others. 

[kgbsquirrel]

You can solve two thirds of that by not leading with your face.

Was that serious or sarcastic? Are you implying that just because someone is in bed they can't swing their arm (with a freaking kitchen knife at the end of it) around?

On a serious note raise your hand if you've ever taken a bladed weapon defense course. I did as part of my .mil training back when I stood watch as a rover with an M14 and frankly you should never discount someone with a knife just because you don't think they are as strong or nimble as you are.

[taurusowner]

I have also taken an actual knife defense course.  And one thing they reiterated time and again: you're going to get cut.  There is simply NO sure fire way to go hands on with anyone with a knife and make certain you won't get cut.

[Tallpine]

Note to self: when on my deathbed and wanting to be left alone, keep something more than a knife under the covers. 

Detcord?

I was thinking a .44 Colt Dragoon, with cartridge conversion   

[RoadKingLarry]

I've never understood the suicide being illegal thing.

Sure it can leave a mess behind and sometimes others are at put at risk but fer Pete's sake.

If someone just has to jump off the bridge let 'em.

No sense in threatening to shoot them if they don't stop trying to kill themself.

[KD5NRH]

Was that serious or sarcastic? Are you implying that just because someone is in bed they can't swing their arm (with a freaking kitchen knife at the end of it) around?

Are you serious?  Did you not notice that Plastic Man's defining characteristics were his masculinity and fictionality?  This being both real and a woman, the length of her arms is constant, and since she was laying down, she wasn't going to leap into a sudden fleche to close the gap.  Keep everything but your protected hands and forearms out of her reach, and she'll have to put her hands into your reach to even try to attack.

I have also taken an actual knife defense course.  And one thing they reiterated time and again: you're going to get cut.  There is simply NO sure fire way to go hands on with anyone with a knife and make certain you won't get cut.

There's no sure-fire way to go to the store and make sure you won't get run over, either, but sometimes you've got to take a little risk.  Every knife defense course I've seen focuses on keeping any cuts you do take superficial, and most of them assume that you don't have the advantage of Spectra gloves and other protective gear.  Those are game-changers in the same way that taking an Abrams to a pistol duel slants the odds in your favor a bit.

[Strings]

>Those are game-changers in the same way that taking an Abrams to a pistol duel slants the odds in your favor a bit.<

Ahhh... KD5NRH believe in fighting fair, I see...

[MechAg94]

That said, I have never heard of police taking down knife wielding people with hand to hand techniques if they had a choice. 

[taurusowner]

That said, I have never heard of police taking down knife wielding people with hand to hand techniques if they had a choice. 

That's because it's a really stupid thing to do.  It only takes one flick of the knife to cut an artery in the wrist, neck, maybe accidentally fall on the knife and take a stab to some vital organs.  All of a sudden it's not just a minor cut.  What started as "I'll just take this knife away" ends up being "I hope EMS arrives or I'm gonna die."

This cannot be stressed enough.  A knife is a lethal weapon.  And deliberately getting up close to anyone with a knife is a possible life-ending move for the officer.  I would not expect any officer to do so if any other options are available.

[MechAg94]

In this case, they used a taser and stepped on her O2 line. 

I guess any case that involves "granny with a knife" is gonna be lose-lose for the cops. 

[taurusowner]

Yeah pretty much.  The route they chose sucked, but the other choices aren't really any better.

Do nothing or try to talk her down, she kills herself.  Bad choice.
Use hand to hand.  An officer or the woman takes a lethal cut, and someone dies.  Bad choice.
Use an ASP or other impact weapon to knock the knife out of her hand.  Get accused of beating a poor old woman.  Bad choice.
Use Taser to incapacitate her and then take the knife.  Creates bad public image.  Bad choice, but has the highest chance of resolving the situation with the least amount of physical harm to either the subject or the officers.  So that's what they did.

[Balog]

That's because it's a really stupid thing to do.  It only takes one flick of the knife to cut an artery in the wrist, neck, maybe accidentally fall on the knife and take a stab to some vital organs.  All of a sudden it's not just a minor cut.  What started as "I'll just take this knife away" ends up being "I hope EMS arrives or I'm gonna die."

This cannot be stressed enough.  A knife is a lethal weapon.  And deliberately getting up close to anyone with a knife is a possible life-ending move for the officer.  I would not expect any officer to do so if any other options are available.

If you accidentally fall on a knife trying to disarm a (I feel the need to re-iterate) heavily medicated bed ridden 86 y/o, I'm kinda glad to see you removed from the gene pool.

Yeah pretty much.  The route they chose sucked, but the other choices aren't really any better.

Do nothing or try to talk her down, she kills herself.  Bad choice.
Use hand to hand.  An officer or the woman takes a lethal cut, and someone dies.  Bad choice.
Use an ASP or other impact weapon to knock the knife out of her hand.  Get accused of beating a poor old woman.  Bad choice.
Use Taser to incapacitate her and then take the knife.  Creates bad public image.  Bad choice, but has the highest chance of resolving the situation with the least amount of physical harm to either the subject or the officers.  So that's what they did.

I disagree. It's sad that the cowardice of these officers is being so strongly defended, but I guess that's our society...

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

It's sad that the cowardice of these officers is being so strongly defended, but I guess that's our society...

They went home alive. Nothing else matters, to them and those wh defend them

[taurusowner]

If you accidentally fall on a knife trying to disarm a (I feel the need to re-iterate) heavily medicated bed ridden 86 y/o, I'm kinda glad to see you removed from the gene pool.

Being kinda glad if a police officer dies tells me a lot about you.

[makattak]

Being kinda glad if a police officer dies tells me a lot about you.

Misrepresenting what your opponent said is not a valid debate tactic.  :rolleyes:

[taurusowner]

That's actually pretty much exactly what he said.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

They went home alive. Nothing else matters, to them and those wh defend them

granny made it   course once sher\ pulled a knife they coulda shot her if they followed the rules in the book

[Battle Monkey of Zardoz]

Being kinda glad if a police officer dies tells me a lot about you.

That's not what he said. Don't pull an Obama

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I'm kinda glad to see you removed from the gene pool.

isn't ambiguous

[taurusowner]

That's not what he said. Don't pull an Obama

Care to let me in on exactly what the hell "I'm kinda glad to see you removed from the gene pool."  does mean then?