Author Topic: What's with the first-name basis??  (Read 2759 times)

CAnnoneer

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2006, 07:39:20 AM »
Quote from: Sindawe
Ahhh...so you're one of those who could never get his experiments to work. : neener :

Believe it or not, that's true for virtually all hard science / engineering. When you go where nobody has gone before, 95% of the work tends to be "unsuccessful", until you find the correct parameters, at which time 95% of the experiments work.

The fundamental secret of science and technology is that we live in a world of resonances. If you are detuned you see nothing. The trick is to tune your system properly to get the desired effect. This is a statement of very broad applicability, although the details in a particular situation may vary widely.

CAnnoneer

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2006, 07:50:31 AM »
Quote from: fistful
We talk a lot and occasionally we argue over science.  I'll give mine:  none. 

You don't have to have degrees to make a good informed argument. I don't think I've ever used mine as an intimidation tool either here or at THR and don't intend to. Not because I am modest, but because degrees by themselves do not make a good argument and that's what I seek.

Perd Hapley

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2006, 08:24:47 AM »
So, you're aware of all the degreed idiots haunting our university campi?  Me too.  I really don't mean the "idiot" part, though.  In the "working with libs" thread, you gave a good summary of the factors that keep well-educated, intelligent, informed people from seeing the light of obvious reason on certain subjects.  I agree. 

However, I give a lot of weight to understanding gained from everyday experience within a specific field.  I also hold people to a higher standard when their education means they ought to know better.

RE: the UNABomber, I don't know what he means, either. 
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Twycross

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2006, 10:07:00 AM »
Geez, you two.


Gewehr98

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2006, 12:31:53 PM »
I've seen that before, almost professing a class distinction between people.

I cringed for the last 20 years when I was addressed by my rank or "Sir", just because I had gone to school.  I understand the need for formality and respect of rank in a military organization - it's a discipline thing, tied in with customs and courtesies.

However, another thing makes me cringe:

Quote
I agree with Lee. When most of the people you work with hold advanced degrees or are on their way to such, "Doctor" becomes silly and nobody insists on it. However, this is true only "within the club". Total strangers without a doctorate or workers clearly outside the club, e.g. secretaries, maintenance personnel, undergraduate students, for that matter any non-doctoral student, are expected to maintain formality. Exceptions are only those whom I do consider personal friends and who have allowed me to treat them with reciprocal familiarity.

I just finished watching the re-release of Monty Python's Holy Grail.  Cannoneer's demand that he be addressed with his formal title by undermensch outside the scholastic environment reminds me of the scene where King Arthur of the Britons was trying to exert authority on the mud collectors in the field.  They laughed at him.

I've got a brother-in-law who has a doctorate in Pharmacy.  He delights in taunting others who don't have that level of schooling.  The guy's never been outside the UW school and hospital system.  Myself, I've been everywhere, and seen and done things I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies.  Ever dig up a mass grave that was created as a result of ethnic cleansing, just to emplace sensors alerting us when more bodies were dumped?

And the poor guy can't even change the air filter or spark plug in his lawnmower.  I taught his 6 year old son to do it, and then the youngster taught his dad how to do a tune-up on the lawnmower.  He cornered me later and reminded me that "he was not an imbecile".  Of course not.  Idiot savant is more like it.

These are the same folks who put their titles in their signature lines when the correspondence has absolutely nothing to do with their given profession.  It's like they're trying to impress somebody.  I *might* do it if I submit a rebuttal to an article in Air Force Magazine, otherwise I'm an everyday guy who prefers the first name thing.  I've seen the "Mr. So-and-so" addressing actually cause problems in the VA hospital, two fellows with the same last name heading for the nurse who called it out.   
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CAnnoneer

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2006, 01:27:47 PM »
Gewehr98,

You have to explain to us why the existence of a few extreme cases makes you question the institution itself. Also, if you bin me and my colleagues with your brother-in-law and King Arthur kicking a peasant, please let me know. Finally, ask yourself to what extent calling one's subordinates "untermensch" has anything to do with what I said or practice.

It is obvious that some of you guys have some egalitarian buttons pressed. As I said/implied previously, consider how many organizations require hierarchic structure for its function ,and benefit from it more than they lose of it.

The Rabbi

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2006, 03:13:26 PM »
I dunno.  Calling older people Mr and Mrs (or "Miz" as we do here) seems to inculcate the idea of basic respect for someone simply because he/she is older.  Someone who cannot respect another person probably cannot respect himself as well.
I played host to a German actor a couple of years ago, here as part of our sister cities exchance.  He was in his early 70s and didnt speak English at all.
Now in Germany it is all very formal.  Everyone is Herr This and Frau That until you get to be good friends or relatives. Even on Lufthansa the attendants are Frau Mueller and Fraulein Braun.
But this guy told me the first evening that since he was in America we ought to do things the American way and I should call him Wolfgang and he'd call me Bill.  I had no problem with the second part but there was no way I was going to call this man old enough to be my father Wolfgang.  It just seemed so wrong.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2006, 08:47:22 PM »
Are you kidding?  I'd love to talk to a Wolfgang, just for the chance to say Wolfgang.  Volf-gong.  Delicious.  (I'm sure the Rabbi will correct my pronunciation somehow.)  I didn't know they still had Wolfgangs.  Excellent name.  What does it mean, anyway?
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The Rabbi

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2006, 04:00:56 AM »
Are you kidding?  I'd love to talk to a Wolfgang, just for the chance to say Wolfgang.  Volf-gong.  Delicious.  (I'm sure the Rabbi will correct my pronunciation somehow.)  I didn't know they still had Wolfgangs.  Excellent name.  What does it mean, anyway?
Wolf is wolf, obviously.
Gang is from gehen, to go.  So wolf-goer, or one who goes like a wolf.

I considered it briefly as a name for my new son but we settled on Gustav instead.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: What's with the first-name basis??
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2006, 05:03:03 AM »
Anyone ever hear of Dr. Bernie Siegel? He's a retired oncologist and author of several best selling books, including one called "Love, Medicine and Miracles." I met him at a workshop a few years back. He's definitely into the first name thing, but at least he recognizes that it cuts both ways. His advice regarding doctors is to ask your doctor if he/she minds if you call them by their first name. If they decline, he says to find another doctor, because a doctor who calls you by the first name but insists that you call him/her 'Doctor" isn't going to talk WITH you about your health, they're going to talk AT you (or down to you).
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