Author Topic: Fish and Chips  (Read 5109 times)

Nick1911

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Fish and Chips
« on: January 21, 2012, 01:25:18 AM »
Alright, I think I may have been bitten by a British person.  For a good long while now, I can't get enough fish and chips.  It's become my default order when going to a new bar.

I'm interested in making fish and chips at home.  Over the past year, I have developed some sense of culinary direction; mostly because I like Alton Brown - but don't have a good idea how to do fish and chips at home.  I haven't done much frying.

Specifically:
  • Is it safe to deep fry on a natural gas stove?
  • What kind of oil should be used?  Temperature?  How does this relate to smoke point?
  • What's the deal with how long oil lasts?  How long do I keep it, how do I store it, and what cleaning/management procedures are needed for it?
  • Any good recipe recommendations?
  • What kind of kit is needed for this?  Just to "do it" and to do it right.  Thermometer, etc?
  • Recommended tarter sauce recipes?
  • Making good, thick fries?  The kind that go well with mayo?

Thanks!  =)

BridgeRunner

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 02:17:44 AM »
  • Making good, thick fries?  The kind that go well with mayo?

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I like to deep-fry in an electric skillet personally.  Trying to do it on the stove has a tendency to leave to sticky messes afterwards, that tend to persist.   Not to mention polymerized oil on your pan and any parts of the stove that get and stay hot. 

If I were to do it on the stove, I would insist on a cast iron pan, for the temperature stability and the fact that polymerized oil all over the outside of it is not a bad thing.

Oils and temps I cannot advise on, I'm haphazard about those things.  I do however, usually make some beignet with new oil before I want to use it for fish.  Cuz beignet are tasty, and I don't like having two different used fry oils around. 

Grebnaws

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 03:16:56 AM »
I don't have any recipe advice for battered fish. I dredge all my fish at home in a 95/5 ratio of corn meal to flour with seasoning, typically old bay. Simple is good here. I like the light crunchy coating and the simplicity of a dry dredge. Sometimes I will use an egg and milk mix to help the coating adhere to the fish. After a long day of fishing, driving, and cleaning you appreciate not making a batter. Consequently I have never found a battered fish recipe I truly loved and would share. Alton Brown's recipe is good but be sure to choose a real ale for beer battering the fish! The only fish I fry at work is catfish and I just haven't ever seen it heavily battered in the British fish and chips style.

My recommendation for deep frying at home is to use a large cast iron pan, dutch oven, or any suitable heavy pot. I never use a proper deep fryer at home and it's always done over a gas stove. There are submersable fry thermometers available in most stores that clip to the edge of a pan but I think they are clumsy and dangerous. My electric probe thermometer works great for deep frying, I just swirl it around in the oil until it reaches the desired temperature (~365F is a good starting point for a handful of small fillets). The fish will cool the 365F oil upon contact and fry somewhere in the 350F range. If the temp drops far below 350F then you need to increase the oil, add less fish, or increase your starting temperature. The proper combination of these factors is paramount. Don't forget to let your oil rest and recover temperature between batches. This makes the difference between crispy fish and grease laden fish. The heavy pan is necessary to retain heat but you can mitigate this factor with a greater amounts of oil. I would rather spend a few more minutes frying than keep gallons of oil laying around the kitchen. My 6 qt dutch oven is most commonly used with around 5" of oil in the bottom. I keep the oven at it's lowest setting for keeping fry batches warm on a sheet tray. This amount of oil only comes about halfway up the pot but prevents a lot of the oil mist and spatter that gets out of control with a huge vat of oil. Do NOT cover the pot while frying as the escaping moisture from the fish will condense on the lid and drip back down causing all kinds of disasters.

I only use canola oil at home for frying. It is flavor neutral, inexpensive, has a high smoke point, and is stable enough to last a few meals before I want to strain it and reconstitute with fresh oil. I always reuse a portion of old oil when when adding fresh. I've had a lot of cooks tell me this is necessary to maintain a certain flavor and texture profile. Personally, I think it mostly maintains a profit margin but I have no complaints. Peanut oil tastes great but the price is ridiculous and I don't trust vegetable oil blends. Pure shortening works pretty well if you feel like experimenting sometime (amazing with fried chicken!) Temperature control is the key to getting long life out of your oil. It can last a long time at 350-375 but get it much over 400 and it will start to break down into stinky mess. Honestly, I don't change mine until it starts to look like used motor oil. Not neglected motor oil, just well used motor oil. When it starts to taste like corn chips at a bad mexican restaurant it's time to change. It will develop a bad rancid flavor (along with a few carbon compounds you don't want to eat) but once again, keeping an eye on those temps will do wonders for oil life. I pour my used oil over a simple strainer to collect the flotsam and chunks leaving the fine corn gritty "slime" behind, and pour it straight back into a bottle when cooled. Or just put it back on the stove with a lid on it like I do during fish season. It stinks like Long John Silvers but I cook for a living and consider it one of the charms of wearing an apron all week and frying fish at home. Your hushpuppies will taste better in the fishy grease too.

Hellman's and kraft actually make a decent tartar sauce IMO. It's dead simple to make but it complicates those simple 1-2 person fish fry dinners and I don't make it from scratch unless we have company over. Mayo, pickle relish, fresh lemon juice, perhaps a dash of Worcestershire sauce..... that'll do it. It's the pickle relish and lemon juice that make the difference. Just mix to taste. Malt vinegar is an even easier alternative and more in style with heavily battered fish.

Sorry.... I don't have much to help with your chips. They are a true PITA to do properly at home. Usually it requires cutting the potatoes and allowing them to soak in water overnight (to begin the starch to sugar conversion) and then double frying at two separate temperatures. I love 'em but I stick to hushpuppies, southern style green beans, or fried potatoes when I'm at home.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 03:21:03 AM by Grebnaws »

BobR

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 04:40:41 AM »
If you do a search, which you probably have, the ones by Alton Brown and Tyler Florence are both good. Alton uses beer and Tyler uses club soda. From what I have read either of those work.

One of the keys to good chips (fries) is to precook them and then finish them off for crispiness.

The technigues and recipes are easily found using a search.

I personally use peanut oil or corn oil when I make them.

I believe thet Tyler Florence will use rice flour on his fish, which is nice if someone on a gluten free diet has a yearning for fish and chips.

bob

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 07:21:15 AM »
Dear Nick -

Please go back to Montreal and take your mayo with you.

Both the fish and the chips should be dosed/doused (your preference) with a good quality malt vinegar.

As for the proper implements, temperatures and recepies for frying either the fish or the potatoes - hie thee to a decent restaurant, sit down, and let them do what they know how to do.  Surely there is one such accessable that remains open 24 hours?  Or do you live beyond civilization?

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 07:53:03 AM »
I may use oil twice, kept in the fridge in between. I can tell you when oil or meat is bad long before it gives obvious signs, my IBS trigger. Once the oil is oxidized, it's over, and not so good for you. Please keep the fish oil for the fish.
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K Frame

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 07:58:39 AM »
Yes, it's perfectly safe to deep fry on a Nat. Gas. stove. Ever see what kind of stove Alton Brown uses?

Peanut, safflower, or canola oils are good for frying. Just make sure you don't get them over 400 degrees. Even the refined ones break down a lot faster at that temp.

Oil can last several fryings. The key is filtering it and keeping it cold or frozen to slow or stop decomp.

You absolutely need a fry thermometer. If you don't have one, you have no idea what you're actually doing.

If you deep fry in a cast iron dutch oven, recognize that your oil is going to break down a LOT faster unless you use a porcelain coated one. Frying in cast iron causes iron ions to attach to bonding points in the oil molecule which leads to rapid rancidity, even with filtering.

If you want to do this right, though, get yourself a fryer. They're relatively cheap and will do the temperature management for you.


I'll occasionally make fish and chips when I'm able to find North Atlantic cod for sale and at a reasonable price. Unfortunately, that's not all that often. Alton Brown uses tilapia for his fish and chips. I think I'll just puke now and miss the Christmas rush.

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wmenorr67

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 08:00:18 AM »
Nick where in KC are you getting good fish and chips?

Keep going there.  You will never get it to be the same.  Plus they have more beer.
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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 08:09:06 AM »
Tilapia in fish and chips?  Shudder.

Up here in the PNW, it is pretty much cod, halibut and the occasional salmon.  I like the halibut the best.
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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 10:00:21 AM »
I have a propane fryer, I do fish and chips a several times a year with friends. I used whatever vegitable based oil is on sale and try to keep the temp between 350-375.

Usually use crappie, bluegill or walleye for my fish, basically what ever I catch when fishing.

I just got a french fry cutter recently and I'm looking forward to using that instead of slicing the potatoes with a knife.

If you soak the potatoes in the water in the fridge for 24-48 hour (and drain well) before you fry you can get crispy fries with a fluffy inside.

I do a dry flour breading on the fish but I am going to try a tempura batter as soon as I catch another mess of fish. Ice is finally safe enough to go fishing.
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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2012, 02:29:36 PM »
As a fry cook in a gourmet restaurant on the Oregon coast, I spent entire shifts doing nothing but dropping beer battered pieces of halibut into a fryer.  I can't help you with what kind of pan or stove, but I can tell you canola oil at 350 F.  I always just mixed tempura with beer, generally a nice amber, (alaskan amber or drop top work great).

And anything but halibut in fish and chips is blasphemy.

ETA: Charby is absolutely correct about soaking the potatoes in water overnight.
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 02:45:59 PM »
As a fry cook in a gourmet restaurant on the Oregon coast, I spent entire shifts doing nothing but dropping beer battered pieces of halibut into a fryer.  I can't help you with what kind of pan or stove, but I can tell you canola oil at 350 F.  I always just mixed tempura with beer, generally a nice amber, (alaskan amber or drop top work great).

And anything but halibut in fish and chips is blasphemy.

ETA: Charby is absolutely correct about soaking the potatoes in water overnight.

physics,  which restaurant?   

And I agree.  Halibut is by far the best. Cod is tolerable, but only if they don't have halibut.
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K Frame

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2012, 03:02:32 PM »
"And anything but halibut in fish and chips is blasphemy."

Blasphemy?

Maybe for those unfortunate enough to live in an area where North Atlantic cod has never been seen. The comparison of Atlantic to Pacific cod is like comparing Marilyn Monroe to a picture of Marilyn Monroe. Sure, they're both Marilyn, but only one is real.

Halibut is nothing more than a convenient, but massively imperfect, replacement for the proper, historic, and correct fish in fish and chips, North Atlantic cod.
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K Frame

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2012, 03:07:01 PM »
Goddamn it...

Now I want fish and chips.

And I know if I go down the street to Arthur Treacher's, I'm going to get something that's just not right.
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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2012, 03:25:29 PM »
physics,  which restaurant?   

And I agree.  Halibut is by far the best. Cod is tolerable, but only if they don't have halibut.

Pier 11 in Astoria.

It appears that I need to try some North Atlantic Cod before I open my mouth.  =D
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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 03:33:40 PM »
Hmmm, up until this very moment, I did not know there was a Pacific cod.  So the next time I am back in the NE USA, I am going to have to try their cod fish and chips. 
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mtnbkr

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 03:34:39 PM »
Goddamn it...

Now I want fish and chips.

And I know if I go down the street to Arthur Treacher's, I'm going to get something that's just not right.

I'll send you a pic of some authentic fish and chips from London. :P

Chris

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 03:48:18 PM »
And anything but halibut in fish and chips is blasphemy.

Well living here in Iowa, halibut is hard to come by fresh.

Walleye and crappie is damn tasty!
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wmenorr67

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 05:13:38 PM »
Damn it, now I'm with Irwin, I want some fish & chips and a couple of pints to wash it down. :facepalm:
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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 06:04:05 PM »
I'll second good fresh halibut, makes awesome fish and chips.
Nick there is an Irish pub at Zona Rosa that has halibut fish and chips.

Otherwise Cod or Haddock are the fish of choice.

I recommend just buying a decent basket fryer.  I bought one that is the longer style similar to restaurant fryers. (about $40)
 
I like peanut oil for the flavor, but yes it's pricey.
Make sure you fry up some batter dipped pickle slices while your at it :)  Mmmmmm

As for batter,  beer and flour (seasoned or not) with some cornmeal makes a good batter.  I would just try several recipes until you find something you like.  You can replace the water in any recipe with beer for more flavor.
I prefer ales.

Malt vinegar is a MUST IMHO
Simple tartar sauce:
Mayo (miracle whip if you like it sweeter), pickle relish (sweet or dill based on taste) and lemon juice.

As for chips, I've been hooked on just baking potato wedges.  (of course you can never go wrong with fried)
Actually my favorite is to sprinkle hidden valley ranch dip mix on them.
You can buy a large container of HVR dip mix at sams or walmart in a shaker container.

Now I'm hungry for some fish and chips and a pint (or two) of Guinness.

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Nick1911

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 06:50:48 PM »
Just made fish and chips, according to Alton's recipe.  Used cod.  Canola oil, dutch oven.  Candy thermometer to track temperature.  Oatmeal stout in the batter, boulevard wheat to wash it down.  (Should have done it the other way round; next time!)

It turned out fantastic.  =D  Thanks!

wmenorr67

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 07:09:06 PM »
Damn it Nick. :laugh:

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Jim147

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 09:24:42 PM »
If it wasn't for that whole getting people heat on a below freezing day, you might have found someone full of fish and beer kicked back on the sofa.  :laugh:

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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2012, 11:09:52 PM »
Quote
Is it safe to deep fry on a natural gas stove? Yes
 Recommended tarter sauce recipes? Malt Vinegar
    Making good, thick fries?  The kind that go well with mayo? pervert
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Re: Fish and Chips
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2012, 02:42:12 AM »
I do beer batter halibut chunks in a large cast iron skillet. I just turn them once to make sure they're cooked even. Big steak fries the same way.
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