Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: charby on October 04, 2023, 01:15:12 PM
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Gag order, I wonder if he can actually keep mouth shut and his comments to himself or is he going to spend 30 days in the pokey.
https://deadline.com/2023/10/trump-gag-order-trial-1235562959/
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I'm thinking the better over/under would be on how many times he's cited for contempt of court because, while he has the right to remain silent, he simply doesn't have the ability to remain silent.
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If I were Trump, I would violate the order and go to jail. It is sure to make him even more popular.
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If I were Trump, I would violate the order and go to jail. It is sure to make him even more popular.
Yup. This gag order only helps Trump, regardless if he follows it or breaks it.
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The over/under might be on whether jail would force a higher court to get involved.
Was this the judge that made a comment about if she didn't like the jury's decision she would throw it out?
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The judge is a he, and there is no jury in this type of court.
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I'm thinking the better over/under would be on how many times he's cited for contempt of court because, while he has the right to remain silent, he simply doesn't have the ability to remain silent.
Quoted for truth.
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Telling Trump to keep his mouth shut is like telling AOC not to be stupid
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Yup. This gag order only helps Trump, regardless if he follows it or breaks it.
It helps him with his base, that's not where he needs the help though.
The Democrats in tandem with these rogue prosecutors, and the state-run media are doing their damndest to prop Trump up now in order to anoint him as the inevitable GOP nominee—because they know the vast majority of independents and undecided voters are not going to be as sympathetic towards him as Republican primary voters currently are
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I agree that's what they are thinking, I'm not sure it's a great bet.
Americans, in general, like an underdog, and Trumps polling is rising v. Biden already. Unless their plan is to kick the current team out and bring in a (D)ark horse, Trump may do well, even from prison.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
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Americans, in general, like an underdog,
It's certainly interesting how this is ingrained in our society, so much so that we will rally behind people we would normally dislike, or people not representative of our own values. I disagree with most of what RFK says, and will not vote for him, but am certainly rooting for him against the dem establishment.
Which is another point in the "pro" column on Trump - he's not just being made an underdog, he's actively being attacked by the establishment - something else that most Americans who value individualism hate.
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I agree with the underdog thingy. That's how Obama got re-elected imho. The Rs were sliming on him vociferously. I predicted he'd be re-elected as a result...and he was.
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Trump could sometimes benefit from a Biden style of handling where he plays puppet for someone who does the actual thinking instead of reacting strictly based on emotion, but then he wouldn’t be Trump.
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:rofl:
Trump Skirts Gag Order With Mini-Trump Ventriloquist Doll
https://babylonbee.com/news/genius-trump-skirts-gag-order-with-mini-trump-ventriloquist-doll
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:rofl:
Trump Skirts Gag Order With Mini-Trump Ventriloquist Doll
https://babylonbee.com/news/genius-trump-skirts-gag-order-with-mini-trump-ventriloquist-doll
Wow... That is absolutely hysterical!
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That actually makes a little sense as Trump refers to himself in the 3rd person a lot. =)
At publishing time, an outcry arose over Trump's decision to choose the puppet as his running mate.
Better than Pence?
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What a lot of Washington/Media doesn't realize is that there are a LOT of Trump voters who are doing so because they're voting with their wallets... The Tea Party is still alive, only they aren't paying attention to the Big Bus politicians anymore.
Every so often, someone bitches about the prices at work. To which I respond, because I've basically quit caring... "Hey, I didn't vote for him." Virtually everyone smiles and agrees. And my store gets about 50% black customers. I still get people wearing King Obama t-shirts tho...
I have had VERY few technicolor hair folks bitch about the prices. But overall, they're a small percentage of the population.
I think that they are going to need to work VERY hard to steal it...
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The judge is a he, and there is no jury in this type of court.
So we are running kangaroo courts after all. And then they wonder why respect for our institutions is on the decline.
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So we are running kangaroo courts after all. And then they wonder why respect for our institutions is on the decline.
It's a bench trial for a civil lawsuit. Nothing out of the normal there.
Trump's legal team could have requested a trial by jury, but they didn't. I'm pretty sure Trump would have a hard time getting a sympathetic jury in NY and probably why they didn't.
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It's a bench trial for a civil lawsuit. Nothing out of the normal there.
Trump's legal team could have requested a trial by jury, but they didn't. I'm pretty sure Trump would have a hard time getting a sympathetic jury in NY and probably why they didn't.
I saw Trump standing outside saying he should have a jury. He made it sound like he was being denied a jury, but based on what you said, it was just Trump being Trump.
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It's a bench trial for a civil lawsuit. Nothing out of the normal there.
Trump's legal team could have requested a trial by jury, but they didn't. I'm pretty sure Trump would have a hard time getting a sympathetic jury in NY and probably why they didn't.
Considering some of the biased statements this judge has made, Trump's team probably should have tried a change of venue.
Either that or they are hoping to use that bias for an appeal later. ???
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Considering some of the biased statements this judge has made, Trump's team probably should have tried a change of venue.
Either that or they are hoping to use that bias for an appeal later. ???
If Trump loses, you can bet the farm he will appeal.
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If Trump loses, you can bet the farm he will appeal.
This is a political prosecution. Trump was guaranteed a loss before he set foot in that courtroom. The judge is going to rule against him regardless what the evidence shows.
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This is a political prosecution. Trump was guaranteed a loss before he set foot in that courtroom. The judge is going to rule against him regardless what the evidence shows.
I have a feeling that he truly guilty of the fraud charges and will lose on the appeal too. Most business tycoons are guilty of some sort of fraud if you dig deep enough. His empire will crumble and his name (and legacy) won't be the same, this will break Trump and his somewhat shallow ego.
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I have a feeling that he truly guilty of the fraud charges and will lose on the appeal too. Most business tycoons are guilty of some sort of fraud if you dig deep enough. His empire will crumble and his name (and legacy) won't be the same, this will break Trump and his somewhat shallow ego.
He has been charged with overvaluing assets in the process of obtaining financing. I am puzzled how that can be the case when 3rd party assessors usually establish collateral property valuations, not the party trying to obtain financing. And given the fact that the prosecutor ran for office on the promise that she was going to "get Trump" one way or another, make the whole legal proceeding even more suspect in my opinion.
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He has been charged with overvaluing assets in the process of obtaining financing. I am puzzled how that can be the case when 3rd party assessors usually establish collateral property valuations, not the party trying to obtain financing. And given the fact that the prosecutor ran for office on the promise that she was going to "get Trump" one way or another, make the whole legal proceeding even more suspect in my opinion.
Trump Org is being accused of misstating the values of properties to obtain a better tax values and preferential loan rates. The alleged tax evasion part is probably what is going to get him and if the loans were issued by municipalities or the state for development, that will probably get him too.
Also, it seems to be a popular campaign platform to get the other guy, I'm pretty sure that Trump was going on and on how he was going to get the Clintons and the Biden in his campaign runs.
Both sides suck donkey nuts.
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It is possible he overvalued some properties, but the court has so laughably undervalued them as to lose ALL credibility in my eyes on the subject of the value of Trump's properties. I just don't believe the court whatever it says the values are.
$18 mil for 20 acres of Palm Beach real estate? With a club on it that grosses $20 mil a year? Get out of here with that bullshit.
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Trump Org is being accused of misstating the values of properties to obtain a better tax values and preferential loan rates. The alleged tax evasion part is probably what is going to get him and if the loans were issued by municipalities or the state for development, that will probably get him too.
Honest question here: if he overvalued properties to get better loans, wouldn't that hurt him when it came to his taxes? Or are these totally separate "valuations"?
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Also, it seems to be a popular campaign platform to get the other guy, I'm pretty sure that Trump was going on and on how he was going to get the Clintons and the Biden in his campaign runs.
I agree that it is wrong to chase politically motivated prosecutions - for both sides. Of course, odious as they were, Trump and the Republicans decidedly didn't follow through with his campaign threats to prosecute his political enemies. Biden and friends are driving that train as far and as fast as they can in every friendly jurisdiction available.
Your attempt at moral equivalence in likening Trump's mean words and the incessant to the massive slate of one-sided political prosecutions that Biden and his allies are conducting is laughable.
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Honest question here: if he overvalued properties to get better loans, wouldn't that hurt him when it came to his taxes? Or are these totally separate "valuations"?
They were separate assessments.
A new valuation of Mar-a-Lago in line with Trump's claims could lead to the former president paying much higher taxes on the property.
Citing both social media posts, Florida Rep. Jared Moskowitz, a Democrat, sent a letter to Jacks on Thursday asking her whether she would be modifying her previous appraisal of Mar-a-Lago to reflect those claims.
"Mar-a-Lago was listed as worth $490 million in financial documents given to banks," Moskowitz wrote. "If the property value of Mar-a-Lago is so much higher than it was appraised, will you be amending the property value in line with the Trump's family belief that the property is worth well over a billion dollars?"
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Trump Org is being accused of misstating the values of properties to obtain a better tax values and preferential loan rates. The alleged tax evasion part is probably what is going to get him and if the loans were issued by municipalities or the state for development, that will probably get him too.
Also, it seems to be a popular campaign platform to get the other guy, I'm pretty sure that Trump was going on and on how he was going to get the Clintons and the Biden in his campaign runs.
Both sides suck donkey nuts.
You missed the point completely. Trump does not get to do the appraisals for his own properties. Appraisals are done by independent third parties, sometimes government entities if it involves tax valuations. He can state what he thinks his properties are worth, but that is only his opinion and won't be used in a financial transaction. There is nothing criminal about telling someone what you think your property is worth, because it has no meaning in a proper financial transaction.
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Well, here's violation 1...
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/20/trump-threatened-with-prison-for-violating-gag-order.html
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Well, if Trump is smart, he will violate the gag order and go to jail. That will spike his popularity even more.
Of course, if he's stupid, he's going to do that too...
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You missed the point completely. Trump does not get to do the appraisals for his own properties. Appraisals are done by independent third parties, sometimes government entities if it involves tax valuations. He can state what he thinks his properties are worth, but that is only his opinion and won't be used in a financial transaction. There is nothing criminal about telling someone what you think your property is worth, because it has no meaning in a proper financial transaction.
In regard to appraisal of Trump Org NY property.
I found an addendum to a NY AG filings that does explain that a 3rd party appraised did appraise the value, but Trump org reported as worth a lot more on the Statements of Finacial Conditions. I'm not sure if that is a legal reporting document to the Sec of State's office in NY or just a general statement issued by Trump Org for shareholders and the public.
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf
I just skimmed it really quick, didn't dive deep into.
A little google fu shows that in New York it is a class A misdemeanor to issue a false Statement of Finacial Conditions.
It appears that Trump Org used those "inflated" Financial Condition Statements to obtain higher valued loans at a favorable interest rate, because of the perceived values.
Also, those saying the mean words vs actions, are you jealous that the opposing party actually grew a pair and pursued legal action.
Also remember we are still in the early days of the Biden legal trouble, Trump's has been brewing for years and finally getting to the courts.
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It appears that Trump Org used those "inflated" Financial Condition Statements to obtain higher valued loans at a favorable interest rate, because of the perceived values.
How? I've never taken out a loan or have done a refinance where the loan company took my word for anything. They sent out their own appraiser to tell me what my stuff was worth.
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How? I've never taken out a loan or have done a refinance where the loan company took my word for anything. They sent out their own appraiser to tell me what my stuff was worth.
I don't know, one would think if the loan people used an appraiser for Trump Org then this lawsuit wouldn't be going on. I haven't seen anything about an appraiser being used.
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A little more Google Fu is showing that the financing was non traditional funding (whatever that is) through Deutch Bank and personal loans. Also allegedly Trump Org left out details to appraisers when they were used.
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Also, those saying the mean words vs actions, are you jealous that the opposing party actually grew a pair and pursued legal action.
I don’t have a problem with fairly prosecuting someone they have valid evidence showing is guilty no matter what side they are on. I do have a problem with purely political prosecutions or heavily charging one side for crimes that the other regularly gets away with. I think if we get to the point that whoever is in power prosecutes whoever isn’t then we are well on our way to national collapse, and politicians will use progressively more corrupt techniques to maintain power, lest they face legal hell when they lose it.
That you note that it is “the opposing party” doing the prosecution shows that you are well aware of the fundamental nature of these cases.
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I have a feeling that he truly guilty of the fraud charges and will lose on the appeal too. Most business tycoons are guilty of some sort of fraud if you dig deep enough. His empire will crumble and his name (and legacy) won't be the same, this will break Trump and his somewhat shallow ego.
The thing to remember is that even if Trump DID over-value his properties, NONE of the investors have filed complaints against him.
This is ALL being done by by a hard-line dem prosecutor who got her job by campaigning on how she was going to "get Trump".
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I don’t have a problem with fairly prosecuting someone they have valid evidence showing is guilty no matter what side they are on. I do have a problem with purely political prosecutions or heavily charging one side for crimes that the other regularly gets away with. I think if we get to the point that whoever is in power prosecutes whoever isn’t then we are well on our way to national collapse, and politicians will use progressively more corrupt techniques to maintain power, lest they face legal hell when they lose it.
That you note that it is “the opposing party” doing the prosecution shows that you are well aware of the fundamental nature of these cases.
Oh, I'm quite aware that it is politically motivated, doesn't make anyone less guilty. Seems like the tit for tat stuff has been building since the Clinton Presidency.
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The thing to remember is that even if Trump DID over-value his properties, NONE of the investors have filed complaints against him.
This is ALL being done by by a hard-line dem prosecutor who got her job by campaigning on how she was going to "get Trump".
Would you defend a democrat like Trump if it was a NY Democrat in court for the same alleged fraud charges as Trump and a GOP AG was prosecuting?
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If by "Defend" you mean point out that it's BS political prosecution and no one else ever gets charged with this, and point out that the court is making absurd value judgements, and that it's a waste of time and energy that only harms the country, then yes, I would.
I am, however, rabidly anti-both established parties.
I've seen a recurring subject on several conservatives leaning podcasts and commentators, that the Left tends to rabidly defend their people, no matter what, and the right will drop a schmoe at the first sign of misbehavior, and that in the Culture Wartm the Right might want to look at that, since it cost them folks on their side, and leads to folks taking deals with the enemy because they know they won't be backed to the fullest (cough Sydney Powell cough). I suspect as the younger folks come on line in leading the party and the culture you'll see that attitude catch on. "If he's our guy, he's our guy to the end. If he's not, bury him" Which is what you are seeing play out in the NY courts.
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Would you defend a democrat like Trump
Not sure that your phrasing was intentional, but it was 100% correct.
Trump is essentially a NY Democrat.
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If by "Defend" you mean point out that it's BS political prosecution and no one else ever gets charged with this, and point out that the court is making absurd value judgements, and that it's a waste of time and energy that only harms the country, then yes, I would.
Many people (not you) seem to think this is all about Trump. It really, at its core, has little to do with Trump. I have never seen so many independents and dems (or maybe former dems now) come out, not necessarily in defense of Trump, but against this kind of political prosecution and or persecution.
Anyone with half a brain can see that this is going far beyond any past political shenanigans, and if it continues to fruition, will go well beyond political figures and will target you and me.
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US politics is "The Sopranos" as government. No good guys, all lies and grift. Nobody to trust, anyone can be on the take or an infiltrator. Enjoy the show.
Trump as the standard bearer of the right and sane policy is something a buddy of mine calls a humiliation ritual.
How many sane, legitimate and good policies are now considered "Trumpism"?
Between that and the destruction of the word Nationalist we have an uphill battle ahead of us.
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Many people (not you) seem to think this is all about Trump. It really, at its core, has little to do with Trump. I have never seen so many independents and dems (or maybe former dems now) come out, not necessarily in defense of Trump, but against this kind of political prosecution and or persecution.
Anyone with half a brain can see that this is going far beyond any past political shenanigans, and if it continues to fruition, will go well beyond political figures and will target you and me.
Basically the left showing people what will happen to those who stray off the yellow brick road
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My problem with Trump and why I have no bones about him burning... and no matter what anyone says, isn't going to convince me otherwise.
I have known about Trump probably since the 3rd grade when he was in every People Magazine, he wants to be in the limelight, he has a huge but fragile ego. He has no decorum, if you go against Trump no matter how small, he publicly tosses that person under the bus. He is nothing more but a bully that probably would fall if a stronger person stood up to him and kick his ass, metaphorically or physical. He has his followers eating up everything he is blamed for is someone else's fault, his lack of personal responsibility isn't there. He is used to getting what he wants and is an extremely sore loser.
He is a true sociopath. He leaves a path of flotsam and jetsam, and really doesn't care who he destroys to get his way.
Trump isn't in it to be a great American president for the people, Trump is only in it for Trump.
With all the court cases he is in, up rises a new direction of Trump believers, the Trump Apologists, they defend him to a T and it's always someone else's fault because he is in court.
I really don't understand how a Christian person could even support him.
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Our options aren't really limited, they're better described as illusionary or non existent.
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My problem with Trump and why I have no bones about him burning... and no matter what anyone says, isn't going to convince me otherwise.
I have known about Trump probably since the 3rd grade when he was in every People Magazine, he wants to be in the limelight, he has a huge but fragile ego. He has no decorum, if you go against Trump no matter how small, he publicly tosses that person under the bus. He is nothing more but a bully that probably would fall if a stronger person stood up to him and kick his ass, metaphorically or physical. He has his followers eating up everything he is blamed for is someone else's fault, his lack of personal responsibility isn't there. He is used to getting what he wants and is an extremely sore loser.
He is a true sociopath. He leaves a path of flotsam and jetsam, and really doesn't care who he destroys to get his way.
Trump isn't in it to be a great American president for the people, Trump is only in it for Trump.
With all the court cases he is in, up rises a new direction of Trump believers, the Trump Apologists, they defend him to a T and it's always someone else's fault because he is in court.
I really don't understand how a Christian person could even support him.
So as long as it's someone that you despise, it's okay to illegally prosecute them. I hope the bananas taste good in your Republic.
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We're buried in bananas already.
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So as long as it's someone that you despise, it's okay to illegally prosecute them. I hope the bananas taste good in your Republic.
I don't know where you got that. Prosecute them all, I'm sitting here waiting for all the Biden's days in court too. I want them to be gotten after with as much fury as Trump has been.
I'm sorry he's your guy and you can't see beneath gold plated exterior for the piece of human excrement he truly is.
The GOP would have better options if Trump would of just went back to Margo Lago and went back to running his business and brand.
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I'm sorry he's your guy and you can't see beneath gold plated exterior for the piece of human excrement he truly is.
This is your problem, which is the same problem all the parroting lefties have. Anyone who says what is happening is wrong or that Trump is being railroaded is a Trump supporting superduperultramagafascistnazi. You have only to read my post history to see that I don't want him to run again, so he's not "my guy".
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Having had high hopes for Trump Ron is dissappoint.
I thought there was an outside chance he was the figurehead for a group of "elites" that wanted to preserve heritage America. Pretty sure I was wrong on that account.
The folks responsible for deconstructing America will not be held accountable by the(ir) system. Biden and a few others may go down as scapegoats but the real center of power will remain.
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This is your problem, which is the same problem all the parroting lefties have. Anyone who says what is happening is wrong or that Trump is being railroaded is a Trump supporting superduperultramagafascistnazi. You have only to read my post history to see that I don't want him to run again, so he's not "my guy".
I said Trump is only in it for himself and the Trump legacy. Never said nothing about Nazi Maga lizard people.
I am concerned about the Maga or die crowd, is their total blindness of loyalty to Trump.
Trump wins or Trumps loses, there is probably going to be escalated violence in November of 2024. Maybe sooner if he doesn't get the GOP nomination.
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I said Trump is only in it for himself and the Trump legacy. Never said nothing about Nazi Maga lizard people.
I am concerned about the Maga or die crowd, is their total blindness of loyalty to Trump.
Trump wins or Trumps loses, there is probably going to be escalated violence in November of 2024. Maybe sooner if he doesn't get the GOP nomination.
That is not Trumps fault.
The ruling class has burned the bridges with a substantial minority of the population.
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I am concerned about the Maga or die crowd, is their total blindness of loyalty to Trump.
Yet apparently not concerned with the "stop Trump or die" crowd, since you seem to be rooting for a conviction, regardless of the means to the end.
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That is not Trumps fault.
The ruling class has burned the bridges with a substantial minority of the population.
But Trump could have stopped it, He could have said, I don't agree with the election results, the Trump campaign will use the courts to determine if there was any wrongdoing, please don't promote violence, etc.
That isn't Trump, he wants to be in the news every day, good or bad.
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Yet apparently not concerned with the "stop Trump or die" crowd, since you seem to be rooting for a conviction, regardless of the means to the end.
Great, the what about them rebuttal. I'm guess you are running out of opposing argument (or parroting points from Twitchy)
Trump is a white collar criminal that has screwed a lot of people with his Trump Org, they eventually got Capone on tax evasion, fraud in NY might be Trump's Waterloo.
In regard to your left wing stop trump or die, crowd, its basically kettle calling the pot black. There is no difference on either side of the aisle of the minority groups that are calling for violence to create a change.
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But Trump could have stopped it, He could have said, I don't agree with the election results, the Trump campaign will use the courts to determine if there was any wrongdoing, please don't promote violence, etc.
That isn't Trump, he wants to be in the news every day, good or bad.
My mistake was to consider him an outsider. In reality he's always been an insider. Nothing works the way we've been led to believe it does. What his actual play was/is we cannot know. Apparently he just developed his positions to create a voting block to gain power. The elections are mostly nonsense but populism is still real. Even he, being an insider, underestimated the power of the entrenched ruling class.
I think your take on Trump is a bit one dimensional and in some ways underestimates him. Regardless, TPTB look to have moved to contain him and possibly end his power grab. Up to this point there doesn't seem to be a faction of TPTB in the shadows running him, but that's still a potentiality also. That he made it so far and is still a force to be reckoned with is a little odd.
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My mistake was to consider him an outsider. In reality he's always been an insider. Nothing works the way we've been led to believe it does. What his actual play was/is we cannot know. Apparently he just developed his positions to create a voting block to gain power. The elections are mostly nonsense but populism is still real. Even he, being an insider, underestimated the power of the entrenched ruling class.
I think your take on Trump is a bit one dimensional and in some ways underestimates him. Regardless, TPTB look to have moved to contained him and possibly end his power grab. Up to this point there doesn't seem to be a faction of TPTB in the shadows running him, that's still a potentiality also. That he made it so far and is still a force to be reckoned with is a little odd.
I wish more people would have a change of mind on Trump as you have. That would open the door up for some better GOP candidates. Kind of sad when you are just looking at the current 2024 contenders and Nikki Haley and Chris Christie don't look all that bad in comparison to the rest.
Oh, I don't underestimate Trump, I'm not going to be shocked if he manages to win the NY lawsuit, either in the initial trial or the appeal. Same with the GA election results case. The other cases (except 1) seem a bit weak, so I figure he will walk away with no charges. The sedition one is a wild card, I have no clue, depends upon who comes out of the woodwork to testify.
In regard to TPTB, I don't think they can control Trump, he'll be loud until he physically can't or had died. He's 77 years old, so if his health holds up it's 10-15 more years of it.
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I don't think there is a chance that an honest person with Americas best interests at heart (as I see them) has any chance at all in the system. Let alone become President.
Closing the borders and revitalizing US manufacturing in industries important to national security was enough for him to get my vote. His interests and mine aligned there apparently.
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All the following can be true at once:
Trump is hot garbage, self-obsessed, always out for himself first, and like most people who have achieved his level of wealth and celebrity has almost certainly bent or broken laws repeatedly in his lifetime. He regularly makes bad decisions in speech and action, and is a very flawed and unpleasant person.
Trump is being held to a different standard than most people in the same position for strictly political reasons. That kind of political prosecution portends the acceleration of the decline of our political system, our legal system, and a relatively peaceful society, and is not something to be celebrated - no matter what one's personal opinion of Trump. Had Trump been successful in his political prosecution Hillary for her multitude of actual crimes, it would have been a step down the same dark road for the same reasons - even though she soundly deserves such a prosecution.
If a truly non-partisan effort was made to evenhandedly clean up corruption without respect to political party and without being timed and targeted in an attempt to interfere with elections or the political process it could be a good thing. That is not what is happening here, and trying to pretend that it is just serves to cover for the many politicians who are far more corrupt than Trump but will never be held to account for their crimes.
Charby's pretention to be a centrist, equal-opportunity seeker of justice who is evenly critical of wrongdoing by Republicans and Democrats does not appear to be any more legitimate than De Selby claiming to be a centrist regarding the middle east and pretending to be equally critical of Israeli and Palestinian wrongdoing. Having an obvious and consistent political axe to grind but claiming to have absolutely pure and apolitical motives is dishonest.
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Great, the what about them rebuttal. I'm guess you are running out of opposing argument (or parroting points from Twitchy)
Trump is a white collar criminal that has screwed a lot of people with his Trump Org, they eventually got Capone on tax evasion, fraud in NY might be Trump's Waterloo.
In regard to your left wing stop trump or die, crowd, its basically kettle calling the pot black. There is no difference on either side of the aisle of the minority groups that are calling for violence to create a change.
That's what you are but what am I?
Hard as you try, you're no DeSelby. He's at least articulate when he gives opposing views. You just parrot all the other TDS people. You're like the Bollywood version of DeSelby. Or worse, the Amazon Originals version.
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Charbs seems to holds out hope for the system working and doesn't seem to despise the left as much as the right.
I don't see that hope as even remotely possible and I've come around to holding the standard bearers on the "right" in nearly equal contempt to with the left. Not quite but nearly.
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Charbs seems to holds out hope for the system working and doesn't seem to despise the left as much as the right.
JMO, but if he was really hoping for the system working, he wouldn't be gleefully posting about the legal system being twisted and manipulated to "Get that Trump, who I hate", or "Ha ha - that 06JAN protestor got 18 years!".
He claims to not support either side, but only attacks one side, and over the last few months it has been closer to trolling.
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I don't think I am a centralist; I equally loath both parties and their leadership. Trump and Biden are both a lot more centralist than I ever would be.
I hate how special interests have infiltrated the system and they pretty much puppet master everything. Just isn't obvious on the surface because you get loud mouths like Gaetz, AOC, the one from Minnesota, etc. that take the spotlight away from what is really going on.
Trump is the one in the hot seat right now. Hillary has pretty much faded away from the national spotlight, I think she and Bill are both guilty AF for a lot of things, but they were too slick and too connected to be charged in the in. I also have no reason why Pelosi isn't booted out either, I mean it is pretty obvious to point out how her and her husband's personal wealth has grown exponentially.
Also, Trump if is the GOP nomination will probably secure term number 2 for Biden, which means somewhere in first 2 years, Harris will become the president. 4 more years of stolen election BS and tattooed vegan shaman wearing a bison head dress will do a dance on the President of the Senate's desk.
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I don't think I am a centralist; I equally loath both parties and their leadership. Trump and Biden are both a lot more centralist than I ever would be.
How would you describe yourself politically? I've always read your "I hate the left and right equally" schtick as trying to imply you are centrist, but here you claim that is not the case. You've historically said you reject following political pundits and mocked members who repeat something they heard from a right-leaning pundit, but when politically contentious issues come up you almost exclusively seem to parrot the same lines offered by political pundits from the left.
I regularly see you condemn Republicans, religious people, and conservative ideas generally, but much more rarely see you condemn anything on the left. Of course, that could simply be because our forum tends to lean right on a lot of issues, so maybe you only speak up when your position isn't already being represented.
Regardless, whenever I've seen you take a position it has almost exclusively been in favor of whatever a relatively moderate Democrat would support that day (a position that keeps shifting farther and farther to the left). You seem to be uncomfortable with many right-leaning ideas (even though they are not really things that are actually championed by most modern Republicans) like limited government, low taxes, free market, traditional values, patriotism, deregulation, border security, and individual liberty. On the other hand, however you feel about the Democrat party, you do seem to regularly advocate on behalf of the traditionally progressive ideals of social equality, universal healthcare, environmental sustainability, higher taxes, labor rights, social safety nets, etc.
Just curious how you see yourself politically.
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Now you can call me a parrot, I decided to honestly answer a Pew Research quiz on political identity. To me no surprise, fits with what my meat space friends and aquintances say about me too.
Ambivalent Right
On issues ranging from the size of the federal government to views about business, gender and race, Ambivalent Right hold many views that are largely consistent with core conservative values. Yet they also hold more moderate stances on several social issues like abortion and same-sex marriage, and they differ from some other segments of the GOP coalition in their more internationalist view of foreign policy and less restrictive stance on immigration.
Ambivalent Right are distinct from other Republican-oriented groups in their views of Donald Trump. While large majorities of each of the other Republican-oriented groups say they feel warmly toward Trump, Ambivalent Right are much less likely to say this.
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Interesting. Thanks.
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Now you can call me a parrot, I decided to honestly answer a Pew Research quiz on political identity. To me no surprise, fits with what my meat space friends and aquintances say about me too.
Ambivalent Right
Well this is awkward:
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Well this is awkward:
Parrot because I quoted the Pew Research results
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In what world is that description of someone on the right?
The right has drifted to the left so far that a moderate leftist is described as on the right.
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In what world is that description of someone on the right?
It's from the Pew Group. While not far left, they definitely bias left. Their board is made up of Harvard, Georgetown, The New Yorker, etc. No one that you could identify from an entity labeled center or right.
https://www.pewresearch.org/about/our-governing-board/
This is where their political contributions go (99% dem):
https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/pew-charitable-trusts/recipients?id=D000055375
It looks like this is the survey that Charby took:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology/
I took it and got "committed conservative". Interestingly, I took a quiz from an obviously left leaning site that popped up when I searched for Charby's survey and got center/right/libertarian. You would think that one would have thrown me to "ultramaga conservative". It all depends on the survey questions.
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I've said this before but I'll repeat it. I have never "liked" or trusted Trump or any politician for that matter.
If he is re-elected, considering how he was treated before, how do you think he will be treated as a "lame duck" president? It would be better to get at least a "moderate" conservative (is there such any more?) that has a chance at re-election so we can hopefully get 8 years of reasonable leadership.
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This is a shocker - the ACLU is backing Trump on the gag order. Which seems fair. I read yesterday that the NY AG was dissing Trump on the social medias regarding the case, which is pretty much what they claimed the gag order was supposed to keep Trump from doing. Goose, gander, yo.
https://twitchy.com/amy/2023/10/25/aclu-files-brief-on-behalf-of-donald-trump-n2389003