What are the rules with police and ambulances, anyway?

[zahc]

I had assumed that ambulances were allowed to break traffic laws all they want when they were responding to an emergency. Whether they are or not, they certainly do, and they run red lights around here all the time. I never thought that they could be pulled over. Is there any legal reality to the perceived immunity of ambuances, or were these cops just acting completely outside the law? Possibly a biased and not very reliable source, but it still raises the question.

  http://carlosmiller.com/

[Balog]

In my EMT class I was told they are not immune to speed laws, even when running lights and sirens. Iirc the running red lights, driving on the shoulder type stuff is only when responding to an emergency with appropriate lights and sirens.

[lupinus]

It likely depends on the local and the ambulance service.  I know in some areas lights and sirens are only a warning to other drivers but the ambulance is expected to obey (most, if not all) traffic laws, in others the restrictions are much lighter.  Likely there is a loosening of the laws while some restrictions still being in place in most areas.

Probably also depends on the type of ambulance service.  Professional EMT's, volunteer rescue squad, private company, etc.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in va  the rules don't allow you to throw an elbow and move away when they tell you you are under arrest

[Antibubba]

Even with the legal right to do so, speeding and running red lights is a risk because so many drivers today either can't hear the siren until it is right behind them, or don't pull to the side even if they do.

[HankB]

In regard to LEOs interfering with emergency services . . .

Years ago (pre-Internet) a local paper carried a story of a police officer in a small Illinois town who stopped a volunteer fireman because he was *speeding* on his way to the station in order to respond to a call. The cop WOULD NOT listen to reason, and took his time about writing up the ticket and lecturing the volunteer fireman.This greatly delayed the fire truck's dispatch to a fire.

The house on fire . . . was the police officer's. IIRC, the insurance company was "very interested" in the reason for the delay in VFD response.

Talk about karma . . . 

[Ex-MA Hole]

I love stories like that.  Irony and karma at it's finest.

[Seenterman]

Wow the cop in the story is an asshat for good reason. He did not know the status of the patient in the back, he's not medical personnel and yet he choose to delay this person treatment. How would anyone feel if there father or mother had a heart attack and on the way to the hospital a cop pulls over the ambulance for speeding and chooses to write the bad bad EMT a ticket and their patient dies. Who's fault is it? The cop or the EMT's? This guy needs to have his ego checked.

At one point in the hospital, the trooper told the paramedic that he was so enraged about the perceived “flipping off” gesture that he considered pulling his gun out and using deadly force, according to the paramedic’s transport report.

I almost want to call BS on this because it seems so extreme but if this is true, that cop needs to be fired immediately.

[Uncle Bubba]

Those state troopers should have their badge-heavy asses thrown off the force. After they do time, of course. And I won't express myself any further on the subject because this is a family-friendly site.

[Dannyboy]

Here's a bit more from the local news.  Seems the cop WAS out of line.  According to witnesses, anyway.  Wouldn't surprise me, though.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=10440200

UNDATED - There are more details about a confrontation earlier this week between an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper and a paramedic in Okfuskee County.  The incident was caught on tape as the trooper accuses the ambulance driver of not pulling over when the patrol car was trying pass him.  What does the law say about who has the right of way?

It was Sunday along Highway 62 in Paden.  Kenyada Davis is behind the cell phone camera.  His mother was being transported by Muscogee Creek Nation EMS to a hospital in Prague.

5/27/2009 Related story: Trooper, Paramedic Fight Caught on Tape

In a statement obtained by The News On 6, paramedic Maurice White said the patrol car came within three feet of the ambulance with its lights on, eventually passing while telling the driver over the emergency radio: "You should consider checking you rearview mirrors."     

After taking care of the original call, the trooper waited for the ambulance and pulled it over.  White says in his statement: "The officer got out of his vehicle in a state of rage."

Read the Paramedic's Report
Read a witness's statement

A witness, who declined to go on camera, told The News On 6 the same story.

"He was yelling, screaming.  He was irrational to me," said witness Diana Walkup.

OHP says before the home video was recording, the paramedic assaulted the state trooper.  But, Diana Walkup says the paramedic never touched anyone until the patrolman grabbed his arm.     

She says it was the trooper who was out of control.

"We thought, my God, is he going to pull a gun? That's really what we thought. We didn't know if he was fixing to pull a gun or what," said witness Diana Walkup.

So, who had the right of way? The Creek Nation admits the ambulance did not have on its lights and sirens, while the trooper had on his lights, but no sirens.

The News On 6 couldn't find anything that gives one emergency vehicle the right of way over another, but we did find one state law that says:  "Every person who willfully delays...an emergency medical technician...in the performance of...care and treatment...is guilty of a misdemeanor."

Investigators aren't commenting, but Diana Walkup believes the trooper was out of line.

"I was horrified.  I couldn't believe it. These gentlemen were trying to do their job and they were held up," said witness Diana Walkup.

The trooper's dash-cam video is in the custody of an assistant district attorney in Okfuskee County.  She says it will not be released because it's part of the investigation.

[AmbulanceDriver]

The trooper's dash-cam video is in the custody of an assistant district attorney in Okfuskee County.  She says it will not be released because it's part of the investigation. it makes the cop look like an absolute ass.

Ok, here are a few opinions on my part.  My opinions are all based in Oregon Law, as that is where I'm a licensed EMT. 

1.  In Oregon, running code 2 (lights w/ no sirens) is illegal.  If it's enough of an emergency to require your emergency lights, you need to be running your siren.  This law is normally not enforced, unless as an additional charge to something else.  e.g. you run a light while running code 2, and nail someone who technically has the right of way (green light).  You'll get nailed not only for failing to obey a traffic control device, you'll also get nailed for running code 2.

2.  In Oregon, it is a felony to assault an on-duty EMT.  Depending on how the facts of this case come out, it seems to me like if this were in Oregon the cop would be facing an automatic felony. 

3.  If I'm driving code 1 (non-emergency) and someone comes up to me running code 3, I'm gonna yield the right of way to the vehicle running hot.  If I'm driving code 3 and another emergency vehicle comes up to me running code 3, I'm likely gonna yield the right of way to them as well.  If they're in enough of a hurry to need to pass me when I'm running hot, they're in one heck of a hurry.  But I'm not required to yield.

[KD5NRH]

It could get entertaining in TX, too:
38.15.  INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC DUTIES.
        (a)  A person commits an offense if the person with criminal negligence interrupts, disrupts, impedes, or otherwise interferes with:
                (1)  a peace officer while the peace officer is performing a duty or exercising authority imposed or granted by law;
                (2)  a person who is employed to provide emergency medical services including the transportation of ill or injured persons while the person is performing that duty;
(etc., including defining it as a class B misdemeanor)

6.02(d)  Culpable mental states are classified according to relative degrees, from highest to lowest, as follows:
      (1)  intentional;                                                             
      (2)  knowing;                                                                 
      (3)  reckless;                                                               
      (4)  criminal negligence.                                                     
(e)  Proof of a higher degree of culpability than that charged constitutes proof of the culpability charged.
(I think we can see that the interference was intentional.)

6.03(d)  A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur.  The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.
(It's hard to claim that any person of even marginally functional intelligence wouldn't perceive that Bad Things frequently happen when ambulances are delayed, so any harm to the patient would have been at least criminally negligent on the trooper's part.)

OTOH, I would hope Texas LE would understand that their job makes them more likely than the general population to need the services of EMS at some point, and that ambulance drivers tend to know where they might be able to justify a trip down a rutted dirt road at high speed to shave a couple minutes off their transport time.

[Firethorn]

What I don't understand is how the cop manages to catch back up after stopping even for a couple minutes to handle something.

Personally, I wouldn't have stopped until I reached the hospital if I'd been carrying somebody in a critical condition.

My guess is that the DA is going to be in a tough situation - if this goes to court, there'll be calls for the COP to be charged.  And a jury can just sit there and think 'what if I'D been in the ambulance?'.

If the cop seriously considered using lethal force because he was flipped off - he needs to leave the profession.

EDIT - Oh yeah, and as somebody else noted, as a cop you don't mess with the paramedics - they might be the one working on you in the future.